Ways to increase diplomacy (no wondrous items, feats or magic)

[LazarX]

OP, if you think that the DM really hates you as a player... then leave. Thre is no amount of character design or player strategy that can defeat malicious intent. If this is not true, then talk your problems over with him privately.

Any situation where you have a player vs player or dm vs player, or any combination there of is simply one to walk away from. I've walked away from bad groupings in my time, and there are few things more liberating.

[Michael Grate]

LazarX wrote:

OP, if you think that the DM really hates you as a player... then leave. Thre is no amount of character design or player strategy that can defeat malicious intent. If this is not true, then talk your problems over with him privately.

Any situation where you have a player vs player or dm vs player, or any combination there of is simply one to walk away from. I've walked away from bad groupings in my time, and there are few things more liberating.

I never said that I think he hates me as a player, I said he's making bs rulings that I'm looking to get around, that was the point of the thread.

Plus it's a home game, like we play it at our homes. We've been hanging out for years and he introduced us to this game. Walking away isn't that simple as is.

[Michael Grate]

Azten wrote:

Michael Grate wrote:

Are there other places to live? Yes

Could I travel there myself? yes
Would I be better off? Probably
Why don't I go? Some reason.

That is some serious jerk move right there. There's so many red flags by this point I'm waiting for someone to show up to part the Red Sea.

Meh, it's been there from the beginning. Plus it's not so much a rule as it is an implication. We just are where we are. Like I said, the campaign we are running is really weird.

[Michael Grate]

Entryhazard wrote:

I've rarely seen a DM hating so much his player

I don't know if I would go so far as calling it hate. It's an annoying restriction but that's why I'm trying to get around it.

[Michael Grate]

Cevah wrote:

Just noticed this...

Michael Grate wrote:

We actually rescued the magic weapon shopkeeper from the boogieman awhile ago (the boogieman killed her parents and took over her house). Her sister then showed up and became the wondrous item shopkeeper.

Neither sister should be indifferent to you. The one you saved might even be "Helpful" while the other is "Friendly". If the one you saved is "Indifferent", again BS GM.

/cevah

Yeah, but this I've actually asked about this and didn't really get a good answer. It was something like they are selling us stuff so now they are indifferent because they are selling us stuff.

[Cevah]

Michael Grate wrote:

Cevah wrote:

Just noticed this...

Michael Grate wrote:

We actually rescued the magic weapon shopkeeper from the boogieman awhile ago (the boogieman killed her parents and took over her house). Her sister then showed up and became the wondrous item shopkeeper.

Neither sister should be indifferent to you. The one you saved might even be "Helpful" while the other is "Friendly". If the one you saved is "Indifferent", again BS GM.

/cevah

Yeah, but this I've actually asked about this and didn't really get a good answer. It was something like they are selling us stuff so now they are indifferent because they are selling us stuff.

Yet another flag that the GM is not running things well.

/cevah

[Headfirst]

Michael Grate wrote:

In my campaign, I'm the designated diplomacy guy

All in all, my GM has me by the balls right now and I'm looking for a way to loosen his grip.

Sounds like your DM doesn't want Diplomacy in his game at all. Whatever you come up with to boost your stats is just going to result in more penalties suddenly materializing. You're going to waste a lot of time and build options if you continue with this. Also, you're going to frustrate your DM.

It sounds like your DM is uncomfortable with Diplomacy because he's not entirely familiar with its uses and limitations. It's not an unlimited charm person spell. You should both read the description again and use it appropriately.

[Ghufufin]

I would find out who made the permanent anti magic field on the shop and deal with them instead.

And ready for a terrible suggestion? Your character is evil and the shopkeeper is being a real obstactle. Just remove them. When you do just make sure its fully stocked. Fair warning since this is the bad option be prepared to: deal with some even greater BS, make a new character, or stop playing in the game entirely.
.

[TriOmegaZero]

I've never done the CE party myself. This does sound like one very strange campaign however.

[GM Rednal]

As a GM, I just use my "reasonable limit" rule of thumb for diplomacy. You could, for example, talk the local King into being your friend if you roll very well on Diplomacy... but no score, no matter how high you boost it, would let you sweet-talk him into giving you his crown after a five-minute chat. Basically, if something is fundamentally against someone's nature, they just won't do it.

[Michael Grate]

GM Rednal wrote:

As a GM, I just use my "reasonable limit" rule of thumb for diplomacy. You could, for example, talk the local King into being your friend if you roll very well on Diplomacy... but no score, no matter how high you boost it, would let you sweet-talk him into giving you his crown after a five-minute chat. Basically, if something is fundamentally against someone's nature, they just won't do it.

It's not as if I'm trying to sweet talk them into giving me their shop, it's a standard (well, not standard by the laid out rules but you get what I mean) buying/selling interaction with shopkeepers in the game. With ones we've been working with for quite some time no less.

It's a diplomacy check vs something they roll (again, not a rules standard). If they beat my diplomacy then the difference is used to increase the price (see the reply I made to nargemn awhile back) but if I match or beat them then I can buy or sell the item at its base price.

They have no qualm with buying from or selling to us. The issue here is that I'm trying to bring up my diplomacy so things can't double in price because I rolled badly. However, in trying to do so my GM instituted arbitrary rules because things like the Bracelet of Bargaining and spells like Eagles Splendor were allowing me to get the items at price rather than at a huge markup. So now I'm trying to work around the rules he added with non-magical and non-wondrous item options.

[Cavall]

RUM.

adds 1d4 alchemical bonus to charisma.

Minor side effects may take place....

[Michael Grate]

TriOmegaZero wrote:

I've never done the CE party myself. This does sound like one very strange campaign however.

The alignment rarely comes into play anyway (at least for us). The main reason everyone chose CE is because the GM (main I should say because he runs everything non-adventure related like shops and such, we just rotate running dungeons) always uses CE for his characters and of course he has one in the game. So our other 2 party members decided to go with that.

As for me, I began as CG because I had been hoping to try and get a Pegasus but changed to CN after finding out that it didn't level normally and would probably cause more confusion than was necessary.

[Michael Grate]

Ghufufin wrote:

I would find out who made the permanent anti magic field on the shop and deal with them instead.

And ready for a terrible suggestion? Your character is evil and the shopkeeper is being a real obstactle. Just remove them. When you do just make sure its fully stocked. Fair warning since this is the bad option be prepared to: deal with some even greater BS, make a new character, or stop playing in the game entirely.
.

Why does it seem like my characters always get the idea to kill everyone in the game a la Deadpool. First my squire, now my main character. Maybe it's just me.

[Thanael]

Ghufufin wrote:

I would find out who made the permanent anti magic field on the shop and deal with them instead.

And ready for a terrible suggestion? Your character is evil and the shopkeeper is being a real obstactle. Just remove them. When you do just make sure its fully stocked. Fair warning since this is the bad option be prepared to: deal with some even greater BS, make a new character, or stop playing in the game entirely.
.

This. If the prices get too high threaten to let the other PCs handle the haggling ;-)

And then (let them) get creative and work around or through the obstacle. Have some one steal the item. Or worse.

[Michael Grate]

Thanael wrote:

Ghufufin wrote:

I would find out who made the permanent anti magic field on the shop and deal with them instead.

And ready for a terrible suggestion? Your character is evil and the shopkeeper is being a real obstactle. Just remove them. When you do just make sure its fully stocked. Fair warning since this is the bad option be prepared to: deal with some even greater BS, make a new character, or stop playing in the game entirely.
.

This. If the prices get too high threaten to let the other PCs handle the haggling ;-)

And then (let them) get creative and work around or through the obstacle. Have some one steal the item. Or worse.

'Steal' is such a strong word. With the amount of gold we've given these two it would probably be more accurate to say 'Take advantage of a surprise customer appreciation sale'.

[Sereinái]

I would suggest doing to another store and pick up some items to boost your disguise skill and show up at the storekeeps door as someone else. Since he has it out for you you should be able to argue that he should not have any problems making a deal with Bernard Flynnworth or whoever present yourself as, but considering what we've heard he'd just give the store owner a massive Perception bonus to see through the disguise.

Otherwise poisons are mundane items. Just saying

[Thanael]

Or set up a complicated con and swindle him out of it

[GM Rednal]

1) Ask your GM how much stuff the shop can afford to buy from you, just because you want to know how much is in the area.

2) Rob the entire shop blind and run away the next night. If anyone complains, stare meaningfully at all the "Evil" alignments on your character sheets.

3) Suggest that excessive haggling might be over-complicating things, and you'd all probably have more fun if you just went back to the basics.

[Liz Courts]

Removed a post. Please do not equate playing chaotic alignments as being a child. They're not the same thing.

[Galnörag]

Michael Grate wrote:

In my campaign, I'm the designated diplomacy guy so of course I want to be the bestest diplomacy guy I can be. Unfortunately, my GM has ruled that I can't use wondrous items or magic in the wondrous item or magic weapon/armor shops (he gave reasons, they're bs but apparently he has legal ways to drop my diplomacy rolls which are probably worst so I'll hold my complaints). I'm also strapped for feats so taking skill focus for example isn't going to be possible.

This is what I have thus far:
15 ranks in diplomacy (we are level 15 currently)

Honeyed tongue trait (+1 to diplomacy)

+3 charisma (it will be +4 next level, the build also wasn't started with pure diplomacy in mind)

Diplomacy as a class skill +3

Moment of Triumph +3 (Order of the cockatrice level 15 skill, lets me add my charisma bonus to everything including skill checks, it will be +4 next level)

I would try to sway the shop keeps mood toward me but besides having a total of -20 in doing this (-15 for base attitude, -5 for condescending drawback) my GM has given the shop keeper a huge sense motive base pretty much requiring she roll a 1 and I roll a 20 to give me a shot. That's not including random buffs he says he gives or debuffs we get (cough cough no wondrous items cough).

All in all, my GM has me by the balls right now and I'm looking for a way to loosen his grip.

Any ideas?

I'm curious what the intention of succeeding at your diplomacy? Getting a lower price? There is no bargaining mechanic that guarantees you a better price if you succeed on your diplomacy roll. In essence he shouldn't have to care what the outcome, as the shop keeper can just say: "Great your my friend now, the wand is still 750g."

[ryric]

Yeah, I'm seeing a GM who is the victim of his own houserules here:

-He puts in place a "bargaining" system to adjust prices away from standard

-The players decide to become good at bargaining to get things cheap

-The GM realizes his error when everything is noticeably cheaper all the time

-The GM overreacts to shut down the PCs' abilities when the real problem is the houserule.