Regrets

[JamesCooke]

That's fair I suppose. Maybe my naysaying nature just got the better of me. Yet another thing to regret!

[Thomas LeBlanc]

Feros wrote:

Ha! Yeah, this is an experiment. But it is one that I am rather intrigued about seeing the outcome. Just how good is the statistical analysis on all this? Will it work? Or will we get a high percentage of people who shouldn't be in the contest? It's going to be very interesting to hear whatever results Paizo deems to release on that (most likely we might only realize success or failure on whether this voting system is ever used again).

I am still upset over the lack of a voting blog after Round 1 finished last year. We got no voting numbers whatsoever. :(

[Feros]

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:

Feros wrote:

Ha! Yeah, this is an experiment. But it is one that I am rather intrigued about seeing the outcome. Just how good is the statistical analysis on all this? Will it work? Or will we get a high percentage of people who shouldn't be in the contest? It's going to be very interesting to hear whatever results Paizo deems to release on that (most likely we might only realize success or failure on whether this voting system is ever used again).

I am still upset over the lack of a voting blog after Round 1 finished last year. We got no voting numbers whatsoever. :(

Agreed. For someone like myself who likes numbers and finding interesting facts amongst them, it was quite a letdown.

[Jason Dandy]

dana huber wrote:

Ryan: short version: No.

You can have a small number of people review and workshop your item (there are no actual guidelines as to how many is too many, just a common sense rule), offering suggestions and critique; the restriction is to avoid large-scale, public self-identification of your item.

So: if you and three buddies workshop items together and submit, fine. If you post on the boards saying "Hey, Jack's +1 sword of Doom is doing great!" you have just screwed over Jack and disqualified him.

why would they DQ an entrant for someone ELSE identifying their item publicly? seems like a seriously misplaced punishment.

[Jason Dandy]

my "regrets" are just good lessons for next time.

1) less expensive, no matter how confusing the item creation cost rules are.

2) either tweak a DC up slightly or remove a spell from the creation cost.

3) that's it. i'm totally pleased with the item beyond the above stuff, even if pet peeves of the champion voters kill it off, or it simply being not as cool as other submitted does me in.

[Feros]

Jason Dandy wrote:

my "regrets" are just good lessons for next time.

1) less expensive, no matter how confusing the item creation cost rules are.

2) either tweak a DC up slightly or remove a spell from the creation cost.

3) that's it. i'm totally pleased with the item beyond the above stuff, even if pet peeves of the champion voters kill it off, or it simply being not as cool as other submitted does me in.

We don't have that much power. And what influence we have is spread out over almost the entire collection of entries. I have seen 657 individual entries personally; that currently adds up to 3 up-votes or down votes each. Some would have more, some less. Most are some up votes and some down votes. You see? Hardly any effect at all.

Our contribution is more apparent when you pull back and look at the overall trend, not individual items. By adding in more data, the algorithms that run the ranking have more to work with and tend to produce better results. It's a funny thing involving statistics; if we all vote as much as we can the positive and negative whims get balanced out and become insignificant.

[Rich Malena]

Jason Dandy wrote:

dana huber wrote:

Ryan: short version: No.

You can have a small number of people review and workshop your item (there are no actual guidelines as to how many is too many, just a common sense rule), offering suggestions and critique; the restriction is to avoid large-scale, public self-identification of your item.

So: if you and three buddies workshop items together and submit, fine. If you post on the boards saying "Hey, Jack's +1 sword of Doom is doing great!" you have just screwed over Jack and disqualified him.

why would they DQ an entrant for someone ELSE identifying their item publicly? seems like a seriously misplaced punishment.

Because the end result is the same. As a voter, I know that Jack wrote that +1 sword of Doom. So instead of me voting for the sword, I'm voting for Jack. Sorry, Jack, but that means you're out.

I advised every single person I know at our local PFS not to reveal their items to people outside their workshop groups. The odds of seeing a particular item are dismal, so the benefits will never never never outweigh the penalties of some random person posting online and linking my item to my name.

[Jason Dandy]

Rich Malena wrote:

Jason Dandy wrote:

dana huber wrote:

Ryan: short version: No.

You can have a small number of people review and workshop your item (there are no actual guidelines as to how many is too many, just a common sense rule), offering suggestions and critique; the restriction is to avoid large-scale, public self-identification of your item.

So: if you and three buddies workshop items together and submit, fine. If you post on the boards saying "Hey, Jack's +1 sword of Doom is doing great!" you have just screwed over Jack and disqualified him.

why would they DQ an entrant for someone ELSE identifying their item publicly? seems like a seriously misplaced punishment.

Because the end result is the same. As a voter, I know that Jack wrote that +1 sword of Doom. So instead of me voting for the sword, I'm voting for Jack. Sorry, Jack, but that means you're out.

I advised every single person I know at our local PFS not to reveal their items to people outside their workshop groups. The odds of seeing a particular item are dismal, so the benefits will never never never outweigh the penalties of some random person posting online and linking my item to my name.

think it through, though (and i say this with zero snark or condescension):

if i see items that scare me re: my chances to make top 32, i can make a fake account or ten, then proceed to use them to post such comments about the items i want gone, even if i attribute them falsely to the wrong people (or even fictional people).

[Kobold Catgirl]

Except Paizo can easily factcheck. If you say Steve made Jack's +1 sword of Doom, they'll see you're lying and ignore you.

[Rich Malena]

Jason Dandy wrote:

Rich Malena wrote:

Because the end result is the same. As a voter, I know that Jack wrote that +1 sword of Doom. So instead of me voting for the sword, I'm voting for Jack. Sorry, Jack, but that means you're out.

I advised every single person I know at our local PFS not to reveal their items to people outside their workshop groups. The odds of seeing a particular item are dismal, so the benefits will never never never outweigh the penalties of some random person posting online and linking my item to my name.

think it through, though (and i say this with zero snark or condescension):

if i see items that scare me re: my chances to make top 32, i can make a fake account or ten, then proceed to use them to post such comments about the items i want gone, even if i attribute them falsely to the wrong people (or even fictional people).

Because somewhere in the vast web of Paizo's tech spiders, there is a Real Name next to any item. And if they happen to see your false posts, someone is going to investigate, and they won't see the right name. That submission is not DQed.

However, now I, as a voter, think that false name is attached to the item, so my votes are still skewed. That submission is potentially in lots of trouble.

These are not in any way the same thing. But both of them suck a lot.

[Jason Dandy]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Except Paizo can easily factcheck. If you say Steve made Jack's +1 sword of Doom, they'll see you're lying and ignore you.

word.

moral of the story--don't share your item with people who might out you during the voting. :)

[Kobold Catgirl]

Jason Dandy wrote:

moral of the story--don't share your item with people who might out you during the voting. :)

Hey, Curaigh, I really appreciated you helping me with my item, but you never asked me to return the favor! Why is that?

:P

[Curaigh]

Mwuhahaha AhaHAHA!

[Anthony Adam]

Feros wrote:

Curaigh wrote:

...

Then remember anonymity precludes an item from gaining the forum user's popularity (AA & Feros would be in already! :).

...

I think you could count yourself in on that list, Curaigh! :D

Agree with you there Feros.

Actually, having read this thread with interest, I have come to the following opinion.

Yes, it is kind of a popularity vote, but that is not a bad thing. Think about it for a second or two like this...

We are voting on what we individually like, the ranking system collates all of that voting and the general consensus of what the gaming community as a whole likes bubbles to the surface. This is invaluable to Paizo, freelancers and people who enter this contest to learn what it is that gamers are looking for in their games.

I know for certain, each year, my designs are subtely altered by this learning experience, so please look at this process as a learning benefit to your skill set as a designer.

[james knowles]

I regret not having someone else read the submission rules to catch that stupid "PRD only" caveat. lol.

[Darklord Morius]

My item didn't get trough. I'm thinking because i didn't repeated it's name in the actual item's text. The first text box (item's name) fooled me, i didn't remember it from the previous contests.

The item had it's flaws but it was solid.

[Tripp Elliott]

Darklord Morius wrote:

My item didn't get trough. I'm thinking because i didn't repeated it's name in the actual item's text. The first text box (item's name) fooled me, i didn't remember it from the previous contests.

The item had it's flaws but it was solid.

Nahhh, others (including myself) have made that mistake and made it into the 32. Don't beat yourself up over that.

[JamesCooke]

Tripp Elliott wrote:

Darklord Morius wrote:

My item didn't get trough. I'm thinking because i didn't repeated it's name in the actual item's text. The first text box (item's name) fooled me, i didn't remember it from the previous contests.

The item had it's flaws but it was solid.

Nahhh, others (including myself) have made that mistake and made it into the 32. Don't beat yourself up over that.

I dunno, the voters seem to be more draconian about the template/formatting than usual. Since it's 100% the voters determining the top 32, I think you're unlikely to see items that don't adhere 110% to the template.

[frank gori]

JamesCooke wrote:

Tripp Elliott wrote:

Darklord Morius wrote:

My item didn't get trough. I'm thinking because i didn't repeated it's name in the actual item's text. The first text box (item's name) fooled me, i didn't remember it from the previous contests.

The item had it's flaws but it was solid.

Nahhh, others (including myself) have made that mistake and made it into the 32. Don't beat yourself up over that.

I dunno, the voters seem to be more draconian about the template/formatting than usual. Since it's 100% the voters determining the top 32, I think you're unlikely to see items that don't adhere 110% to the template.

After 9 seasons, countless advice threads, and four seasons of open voting, and multiple open ended offers to workshop your items yeah we expect template compliance as a minimum standard.

[Jessie Scott]

God Kaze wrote:

I regret my item's high cost. It was originally a lot cheaper, but when I reviewed the Magic Item Creation rules I started second guessing myself.

The problem is that the magic creation rules only give you a small amount of information about the cost of an item. Deviate from that at all and suddenly you're left to ballpark and make educated guesses.

I had to reverse engineer a few items like the one I created for the contest to get a price that appeared to be in the range I was going for.

I did the same too, but in the end I ended up doing this:
1) Go "by the books" to determine cost.
2) Look up comparable items to determine if it seemed like the cost fit the power.
2a) If it didn't fit, I reverse priced similar items to find individual power/price estimates.

Not a perfect system, but some of the Paizo created items appear to rely on advanced pricing rules or just "wing it".

Besides, the price is the least of your worries. It's all about an item's awesome factor - does it do something unique? Price can always be adjusted. So if price is what you're worried about, you're doing just fine.

[The Raven Black]

JamesCooke wrote:

Tripp Elliott wrote:

Darklord Morius wrote:

My item didn't get trough. I'm thinking because i didn't repeated it's name in the actual item's text. The first text box (item's name) fooled me, i didn't remember it from the previous contests.

The item had it's flaws but it was solid.

Nahhh, others (including myself) have made that mistake and made it into the 32. Don't beat yourself up over that.

I dunno, the voters seem to be more draconian about the template/formatting than usual. Since it's 100% the voters determining the top 32, I think you're unlikely to see items that don't adhere 110% to the template.

Honestly, if the item is Superstar material, missing an instance of the name will not make me upvote a rubbish item in its place ;-)

[Jessie Scott]

GM_Solspiral wrote:

JamesCooke wrote:

Tripp Elliott wrote:

Darklord Morius wrote:

My item didn't get trough. I'm thinking because i didn't repeated it's name in the actual item's text. The first text box (item's name) fooled me, i didn't remember it from the previous contests.

The item had it's flaws but it was solid.

Nahhh, others (including myself) have made that mistake and made it into the 32. Don't beat yourself up over that.

I dunno, the voters seem to be more draconian about the template/formatting than usual. Since it's 100% the voters determining the top 32, I think you're unlikely to see items that don't adhere 110% to the template.

After 9 seasons, countless advice threads, and four seasons of open voting, and multiple open ended offers to workshop your items yeah we expect template compliance as a minimum standard.

Totally agree. Paizo spelled it out on their front page of RPG Superstar. They handed us a template to use, already formatted. SKR gave us quality posts about what to do and what not to do.

I judge by quality first, but when I see flagrant disregard for rules when they are so easily followed, it's not hard to choose the winner in that instance.

Also, before you submit, you get another message about previewing your post to make sure everything looks legit. Everyone who submitted had multiple chances to ensure they submitted it properly. There is no excuse for formatting errors.

[JamesCooke]

Quote:

After 9 seasons, countless advice threads, and four seasons of open voting, and multiple open ended offers to workshop your items yeah we expect template compliance as a minimum standard.

Even though it's like, the most easily fixed? I'm gonna go with Mikko on this one (From the "What is DQ worthy" thread):

Quote:

Creativity and mojo should always matter more, so if you see a perfectly formatted item vs an item with just one or two of these mistakes, please always choose the item that shows more creativity. (And if one item clearly has more mojo, please vote for it even if it has many formatting mistakes!) I guess you can use simple mistakes like these as tie breakers, but if your mojo sense is strong enough, it's quite easy to choose.

Template compliance, for professionals, is something you're expected to do (and probably know) right off the top of your head. But this is for amateur designers and penalizing them for easily made mistakes that are JUST as easily fixed is, in my mind, over-zealous.

[pH unbalanced]

JamesCooke wrote:

Tripp Elliott wrote:

Darklord Morius wrote:

My item didn't get trough. I'm thinking because i didn't repeated it's name in the actual item's text. The first text box (item's name) fooled me, i didn't remember it from the previous contests.

The item had it's flaws but it was solid.

Nahhh, others (including myself) have made that mistake and made it into the 32. Don't beat yourself up over that.

I dunno, the voters seem to be more draconian about the template/formatting than usual. Since it's 100% the voters determining the top 32, I think you're unlikely to see items that don't adhere 110% to the template.

It's important to remember that voters <> posters.

The snark thread is important as a mechanism for providing feedback, but you should be careful projecting the complaints there directly into voting. Half the items I complain about I also vote for.

I always take what is in the snark thread as I would the sort of general workshop feedback an instructor would give after reading the papers of the entire class. You can fall victim to one of the common pitfalls and still get an A -- you just don't have any additional margin of error.

[JamesCooke]

Quote:

It's important to remember that voters <> posters.

The snark thread is important as a mechanism for providing feedback, but you should be careful projecting the complaints there directly into voting. Half the items I complain about I also vote for.

You know what, you're right and it was unfair of me to conflate voters and posters like that.

That being said, as far as posters go I don't think I'm in the wrong for critiquing their critiques. They can be pretty acidic at times.

[Thomas LeBlanc]

I am a stickler for the template, because:

A) They give it to you in the rules.

B) They also give you hints about certain things.

C) There are plenty of prior items to look at.

D) I got it mostly correct my first time (even though the item sucked), because I cared enough to try to be thorough. So horrible to look at... shudders

[JamesCooke]

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:

I am a stickler for the template, because:

A) They give it to you in the rules.

B) They also give you hints about certain things.

C) There are plenty of prior items to look at.

D) I got it mostly correct my first time (even though the item sucked), because I cared enough to try to be thorough. So horrible to look at... shudders

So say you're grading an English paper that you asked to be in MLA format.

Paper A complies with the format but is otherwise middling. Not bad, just middling.
Paper B does not comply with the format, but is otherwise excellent in both thesis and content.
Who do you award the higher grade? Though the format has existed for decades and you did mention you wanted the paper in that format, paper B is otherwise not only good but exceptional. Is it then not worthy of exception?

[The Raven Black]

I am in the business of analysing answers to requests for proposals launched by big companies. If a candidate does not follow the template, they had better be excellent. Because they are starting the race on their worst foot.

[Template Fu]

I think this needs to be said, so I'm biting the bullet...

I don't think everyone is draconian about template, even though I have this alias.

Every post I have seen where people have confirmed they look at the template, in every single case, including mine, we have all said something along the lines of "the template is the least/last deciding factor".

By this we are all saying

We look at the design, the design space, the originality, the fun factor, the balance, the pricing, the spell construction selection. matching auras, the slot synergies (i.e. boots that enhance intelligence have no slot synergy, whereas a head band that enhances intelligence does)... we even decide if we "like" the designs as players and as GMs. We look to see if the item breaks the game in any major way, whether it can be abused by clever players and the like.

In short if we do all of this, and still cannot separate the pair of items and the only thing left to consider is the template, then what else can we use.

I have just cast my 400th vote if my count is correct, the template was used as a deciding factor twice.

So please don;t get hung up on the template as it isn't the big deciding factor that it appears to be, if the template isnt correct, chances are the design is flawed in other places long before we look at that.

2 votes in 400, so that's like 0.5% of my votes had to go to that low a level. And my voting count is probably less than 1% of the total votes cast, so I probably have swung the results on those two votes by a factor of 0.005% at most.

In short, template execution will be used as a deciding factor but only as a last resort when all other options have been considered - that's why I am voting so much slower this year.

The appearance of draconian use is probably a result of the snark posts complaining about total lack of template use. I can assure you though, that those of us taking the competition very seriously are not being swayed at all by that thread of by template miss-steps. We all make them, even I do.

[Donald Robinson]

JamesCooke wrote:

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:

I am a stickler for the template, because:

A) They give it to you in the rules.

B) They also give you hints about certain things.

C) There are plenty of prior items to look at.

D) I got it mostly correct my first time (even though the item sucked), because I cared enough to try to be thorough. So horrible to look at... shudders

So say you're grading an English paper that you asked to be in MLA format.

Paper A complies with the format but is otherwise middling. Not bad, just middling.
Paper B does not comply with the format, but is otherwise excellent in both thesis and content.
Who do you award the higher grade? Though the format has existed for decades and you did mention you wanted the paper in that format, paper B is otherwise not only good but exceptional. Is it then not worthy of exception?

In my case, I'm a document control officer (and a chemist). When dealing with government regulatory agencies, your formats and the specific guidelines you must adhere to are either correct or not correct. There is not a gray area, and you are thus found at fault during the audit. It sucks, it really does.

I put format in terms of the provided template in high priority because it is a very easy thing to do. Now if I was grading papers, I wouldn't be comparing one person's work to another, but rather each paper versus a rubric which includes content and format.

[frank gori]

JamesCooke wrote:

Template compliance, for professionals, is something you're expected to do (and probably know) right off the top of your head. But this is for amateur designers and penalizing them for easily made mistakes that are JUST as easily fixed is, in my mind, over-zealous.

As a publisher, yeah I'll tolerate issues with templates as I am far from perfect but there comes a point where you get sick of seeing the same mistakes from a freelancer. So I get where you are coming from but from a publishing perspective you want designers that mostly get it right the first time.

It is easy to forget that this is essentially a job interview. Basically I'm hearing that candidate might have been late to the interview and not dressed professionally but their resume still looks pretty good. The truth of the matter is that it doesn't matter what that resume looks like because out of the other 9 candidates at least 5 of them have a resume that looks just as good AND they showed up on time AND they are wearing appropriate attire. 1 or 2 of them might even interview well...

The real professional world (even in publishing) cares about you have demonstrated you can do not what you can do in theory.

Just my 2 copper...

[Rich Malena]

Going against the grain here... but, I'm a teacher. And if my unique little snowflakes don't indent their paragraphs, but include outstanding thesis statements, I'm still going to give them a high grade. Maybe not the highest, but still.

I like to see a good template. I want to see all the pieces in the right place. I don't like it when important things—like construction requirements!—are missing, but I'm not going to instantly downvote a template problem.

Major template errors are often a sign of a weaker description, but certainly aren't always. Description is always going to be my first focus. If you beat the other item in terms of what the item DOES, then you win my vote. Decently done Auras, CL, and prices are next. Template? I mean, it's important...

Now, if we're talking two Superstar items in a face-off... well, then I'm still going to go through pretty much the same order. Description > Aura, CL, Price > Template.

There's always a lot of talk about "well, a good freelancer would..." and I can't really speak to that. But it seems to me that when an editor returns a submission and says "Stop screwing up this formatting," then you figure it out pretty quick. But when an editor replies with "Stop sending me boring items," I'm not really sure what the next step is.

I'd like to see the good ideas first.

[frank gori]

@Rich

Academics have the luxury and that's a fine example of why college doesn't actually prepare you for the real world (see this entire generation.) In the real world no one cares if you're a special unique little snowflake they care if you can do the job. If you can't follow instructions you can't do the job.

Coffee is for closers!

[Thomas LeBlanc]

Rich Malena wrote:

Going against the grain here... but, I'm a teacher. And if my unique little snowflakes don't indent their paragraphs, but include outstanding thesis statements, I'm still going to give them a high grade. Maybe not the highest, but still.

I like to see a good template. I want to see all the pieces in the right place. I don't like it when important things—like construction requirements!—are missing, but I'm not going to instantly downvote a template problem.

Not saying it is an auto-down vote, just 30% of the grade.

[Rich Malena]

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:

Rich Malena wrote:

Going against the grain here... but, I'm a teacher. And if my unique little snowflakes don't indent their paragraphs, but include outstanding thesis statements, I'm still going to give them a high grade. Maybe not the highest, but still.

I like to see a good template. I want to see all the pieces in the right place. I don't like it when important things—like construction requirements!—are missing, but I'm not going to instantly downvote a template problem.

Not saying it is an auto-down vote, just 30% of the grade.

30% of the grade sounds eminently fair! Now I'm going to have to come up with a grading rubric... There go my plans for today.

[JamesCooke]

Rich Malena wrote:

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:

Rich Malena wrote:

Going against the grain here... but, I'm a teacher. And if my unique little snowflakes don't indent their paragraphs, but include outstanding thesis statements, I'm still going to give them a high grade. Maybe not the highest, but still.

I like to see a good template. I want to see all the pieces in the right place. I don't like it when important things—like construction requirements!—are missing, but I'm not going to instantly downvote a template problem.

Not saying it is an auto-down vote, just 30% of the grade.

30% of the grade sounds eminently fair! Now I'm going to have to come up with a grading rubric... There go my plans for today.

Rich no, think of the children!

[Rich Malena]

JamesCooke wrote:

Rich Malena wrote:

30% of the grade sounds eminently fair! Now I'm going to have to come up with a grading rubric... There go my plans for today.

Rich no, think of the children!

Are you kidding? We're prepping for the school year this week. This is the kind of thing I spend far too much time doing!

Anyway, for those interested in what the Teachers are up to these days, we're starting to see a lot of stuff like this. This isn't meant to be a serious document, and it certainly isn't how I'm actually voting, but if we really wanted to start grading entries...

If I were to do something like this seriously, there would be multiple description categories for fluff and crunch, plus grammar and punctuation, plus plus plus...

[Donald Robinson]

Rich Malena wrote:

JamesCooke wrote:

Rich Malena wrote:

30% of the grade sounds eminently fair! Now I'm going to have to come up with a grading rubric... There go my plans for today.

Rich no, think of the children!

Are you kidding? We're prepping for the school year this week. This is the kind of thing I spend far too much time doing!

Anyway, for those interested in what the Teachers are up to these days, we're starting to see a lot of stuff like this. This isn't meant to be a serious document, and it certainly isn't how I'm actually voting, but if we really wanted to start grading entries...

If I were to do something like this seriously, there would be multiple description categories for fluff and crunch, plus grammar and punctuation, plus plus plus...

I might "borrow" that from you >.>

[Taylor Hubler]

Then there are voters like me. I like things to be visually appealing before I start reading the item. An entire document missing bolding and italics, is one big lump of text, and has things in the wrong place sets off alarms right away and I am prone to avoid voting for them. In fact, I may only skim over that entry instead of reading it completely.

And most of the time this can be solved by just pressing Preview before submitting! It is clear to me when people intend to start a new paragraph but somehow missed adding in a line break. Just making sure those are in there makes a huge difference.

Those that are completely missing formatting often have other major issues. It also takes effort to have everything in the correct template but have no formatting. They removed the bbc code, which is not something easily done by mistake. There is no good reason to not have that code in your submission. Maybe it was taken out and was meant to be put back in later but the writer forgot, but that shows a lack of experience and professionalism that no Superstar should have.

What I think I am saying, and what others are saying, is that there should be no reason a submission should not have the right template, at least 75% correct formatting (I could forgive a missing italized name here or there), and about the same amount of the correct minor details.* There are far too many tools to make sure you have a tight, good looking, easy to read, properly formatted, and impressive item. There are blogs, forum posts, guides, convention seminars available through Know Direction, and people willing to mentor you and workshop your work. There is a preview button. There is Template Fu. There are all of the previous years items and Critque Me threads.

If someone was deadly serious about winning this contest they wouldn't ignore all those resources.

When things look appealing (right template, right formatting, text is broken up into smaller chunks, etc.) I jump right in and ignore things like auras, costs, and CL. If one item grabs my imagination, is well written, and has clear rules language I don't bother looking at it any deeper. If I have a hard time picking one over the other I start asking which item I would like to use as both GM and Player. Then I start looking at details. Most of the time I won't even do that and will just pick the one that has the cooler ability.

In fact, I have on occation broken my own voting habits and voted for the rule of cool over the clean and professional. Granted, the clean and professional in those moments were the equivlent to a pair of shoes that only give you a +5 bonus to Performance (dance) and made your feet bleed.

* For some strange reason I am more bothered by missing commas in numbers of 1,000 and above than I am by any other detail. If I see one price is listed as 15,000 gp and the other is listed as 100000 I tend to vote for the one with the comma. It is a lesser known detail that isn't called out, but people who don't do it right also tend to have other minor mistakes throughout the piece.

[Taylor Hubler]

I regrett not using all the available resources, and not properlly preparing for all parts of the contest, in previous seasons and years of this contest. If I had been as serious about it years ago as I am now I beleive I would be a much better freelancer, writer, and contestant than I am now.

[Tripp Elliott]

It's a bit late to be seeing this now, but arggg, how did I not mention X in my entry?

Ahh well, there's always next year.

[Darklord Morius]

GM_Solspiral wrote:

JamesCooke wrote:

Tripp Elliott wrote:

Darklord Morius wrote:

My item didn't get trough. I'm thinking because i didn't repeated it's name in the actual item's text. The first text box (item's name) fooled me, i didn't remember it from the previous contests.

The item had it's flaws but it was solid.

Nahhh, others (including myself) have made that mistake and made it into the 32. Don't beat yourself up over that.

I dunno, the voters seem to be more draconian about the template/formatting than usual. Since it's 100% the voters determining the top 32, I think you're unlikely to see items that don't adhere 110% to the template.

After 9 seasons, countless advice threads, and four seasons of open voting, and multiple open ended offers to workshop your items yeah we expect template compliance as a minimum standard.

What about newcomers? You expect this for them too? Oh yeah, right, it's anonymous, there is no way to know who is newcomer and who isn't.

The thread is about regrets, i already mentioned my regret to err in formatting, i see no need of your harsh words. If you mean to be comical or lighthearted, so we are cool, i'm comical and lighthearted too.

[Kiel Howell]

@Morius, I know his intent wasn't harsh but more a kind of reality check. Solspiral may come off gruff, but I know personally that getting the full brunt of his comments over stuff I've written for him have helped me tremendously.

Same goes with reviewers in general. I know it gets said a lot but thick skin is uber important. I've been slaughtered by Endzeitgeist, which drove me to do better. Then I got faint praise from him which drove harder.

The point is, it's harsh sounding but meant to help you.

[The Raven Black]

What he said : sometimes you need a big and harsh hammer swing at your rough creation to crack it open and reveal the Superstar diamond that hides inside :-)

[Taylor Hubler]

Keep in mind that if you are picked for the top 32 your words here are going to have an effect on how people vote for or against you. All of your work is going to be torn into by all of the commentators, even if it is great work. If you can't take criticism and show that flaw in your comments people are going to avoid voting for you.

If you really want to be a writer of any kind you need to swallow pride, realize that if anyone gives you feedback it means they actually want to help, and humble yourself enough to apply that feedback.

As for newcomers to the contest: I judge them just as highly as I do the people who have been trying for years. I will not lower my standards just for them. If I do that, it will be a disservice to them and unfair to all others.

As I and Solspiral said, there are no excuses for turning in poor work, items with template errors, items without formatting, or a combination of all three. There are countless resources available, and they are available to everyone in the contest. Old or new, it doesn't matter.

[The Raven Black]

In addition to what TH said above, only the top 8 are forbidden to enter the RPGSS again.

If your item was not good enough to get you there, take into account all the comments you can get here and you WILL make a better item next RPGSS. Doubly so if you workshop ;-)

[Darklord Morius]

Oll right, just took the comment on the wrong light, especially that i admitted my errors in an earlier post in this thread, but they should have missed.

Missed the last season, and posted eagerly on this, respected the format, hit the preview button, but forgot "just" to put the name of the item in the text box (put it on the item name box only). Sith happens, if they didn't, Star Wars Universe would be a boring place.

Have already a new item for next season, already saved it all formatted. Will just compare it with other items from previous contests and wait for next year :)

[Dana Huber]

Darklord: I advise you wait until the rules are posted next year. ;)

I'm not even joking with that, despite my winky face-- I remember that last year changed up the rules on what items could be submitted, and within the first hour after submissions posted, there was a post on the boards from someone who had sat on their item they intended to submit, all year, and posted it the instant submissions were open, and then was like "uhh..... so my item type isn't legal this year... can I change my submission?" and, of course, the answer was no.

Just don't rush. "Posting eagerly" is the quickest way to hurt yourself. And I wouldn't get too attached to the idea of your One Perfect Item that will win, either. I've been loosely brainstorming since last year, and for most of the year, I intended to submit a fiery whip. As the contest got closer and I tried to nail down mechanics on it, I found myself sure this wasn't my best work. So I switched to work on something new. I found a shield niche that nobody in PF had previously designed for. I was relatively happy with my item, but it felt too circumstantially useful. I started over again, just a few days before submission.

My current item, which is still in the running, does something that I haven't seen any other item doing. I'm happier with it than I was with either my shield or my whip. I'm especially happier with it than my whip, because I saw at least two whips this year that are fire-themed which my item would be in direct competition with, and I'm glad it's not.

Object lesson? Your first idea is usually not your best. Brainstorm as many concepts as you can, to try and reduce the odds that you will wind up coming with the Same Thing as someone else. Do not get overly invested in That One Item.

Semi-relatedly: the fact that you didn't list name in the item box is almost certainly not the reason your item did not progress. I know this because I have seen multiple items that failed on that metric that are still in the running. It may well have CONTRIBUTED-- if it was problem #3 with a submission that had other problems, then it could have been the nail in the coffin leading people to not up-vote it-- but your item probably had other things that got in its way on the road to success.

[Wren Brown]

What Dana said.

Plus if you practice designing items throughout the year you will be a better designer when the next contest rolls around.

[frank gori]

Darklord Morius wrote:

GM_Solspiral wrote:

After 9 seasons, countless advice threads, and four seasons of open voting, and multiple open ended offers to workshop your items yeah we expect template compliance as a minimum standard.

What about newcomers? You expect this for them too? Oh yeah, right, it's anonymous, there is no way to know who is newcomer and who isn't.

The thread is about regrets, i already mentioned my regret to err in formatting, i see no need of your harsh words. If you mean to be comical or lighthearted, so we are cool, i'm comical and lighthearted too.

Wasn't really directed at you but I'm happy to explain...

So when I started entering this contest in 2013 the first thing I did before designing an item was eagerly read thru the previous top 32 submissions and the forums. I came in knowing I had best get that template right and that I should conduct myself like a professional (having read the flame outs.) I read the advice but certainly ignored a portion of it.

I went on to enter with a

glorified tape recorder:

Listening Stone
Aura strong divination faint illusion; CL 11th
Slot -; Price 60,000 gp; Weight 2 lbs.
Description
A nondescript stone that easily fits in one’s palm. The listening stone can record up to 10 hrs of sound and be instructed with triggers (treat triggers like contingency spell) to activate its listening and discharge functions. The stone also alters its appearance to fit its surroundings (normal rock outdoors, but looks like a polished piece with interesting patterns if placed on a noble’s mantle.) The sounds recorded can only be discharged once. Each time the record function is used the stone loses an hour of recording space until it records only 1 hour.

Spells and spell like abilities that have a sonic descriptor or language based effect can be stored, but only up to 5th level spells and effects. Using the stone in this manner requires all of the stone's recording space. Duration when releasing the spell or spell like effect is equal to round per hour or instant depending on the spell or ability descriptor(sound burst would be instantaneous, bardic performance would be up to 10 rounds.) If used to store a damaging sound effect like shatter then the stone must make an item save (+7, hardness 10, HPs 20.) The Listening stone can be used as sling ammo or thrown as a rock, if it is treat as a rock with magic stone cast on it though the enhancement does not discharge.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, ghost sound, comprehend languages, magic stone, stone shape, stone tell; Cost 30,000 gp

It's not a great item. That said it was under word count, used the template correctly (though I was wrong with aura strengths), and it survived that year's culls. The next year someone wrote a better version of that item called the Echoing Stone that kicked butt and made top 100.

I was as green as they come that year but still managed to get a fair amount of 3PP work and got better and better. The key for me was learning from my mistakes and taking notes from everyone. I'll also credit giving people feedback made me really examine what I do and do not like in an item.

Everyone is new to the contest at some point and I totally want to see everyone back next year. But learn and come back stronger and compete harder because I'll keep swinging on this contest until I can't anymore.