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Due to a discussion over at GitPG about Paizo options for a (non-synthesist) natural attack DPR build, I got curious enough about the potential in the combined suggestions to put together a build.
Though I think the result actually came out free from any major flaws stopping it from being able to do its thing in a real game, it's still a rather silly one-trick pony that prioritizes DPR far beyond what is reasonable instead of improving other areas. But it also turned out to be pretty damn good at its DPR trick, better than what I would've thought possible after Pummeling Style got a well-deserved beating by the nerf-bat, and it can for example easily one-shot the tarrasque at 20th (probably earlier).
Which got me wondering - what are the alternative combinations to achieve the same type of overkill silliness? And what do those alternative martial class builds with equal or better DPR numbers look like?
In short, I'm primarily looking for builds that, say:
- uses only Paizo options
- does not include Leadership
- have at least 16 of 20 levels in martial classes (= classes with max 4th level casting)
- in one turn can deal an average of at least 600 points of damage to an AC 40, DR 15/- enemy starting more than 80 ft away
- can do the above reliably and repeatedly during several turns per day
I haven't been able to find any such builds here (which either means my search-fu simply isn't up to the task, or hopefully that people here use their brains for more productive things than over-optimizing DPR). So I'm asking you for help:
Do you know of or remember any builds (posted here on the Paizo boards, someplace else, or that are still only in your head) that you think might fit the above criteria?
If so, I would be very grateful if you could post a link or a build outline!
Weapon wielders are of special interest, but any build that fits is welcome.
Comments on the subject are of course also welcome!
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A Natural Weapons Warpriest can get pretty ludicrous numbers due to upping the damage to 1d10 or 2d6 per Attack.
Depending on the build, it can be:
1) Dex-focused Urban Barbarian to gain Lesser Draconic Blood, Animal Fury, and Lesser Fiend Totem to gain 2 Claws, 1 Bite, 1 Gore, on top of TWF Unarmed damage.
2) Dex-based Warpriest with a natural Bite attack (either by being a Toothy Half-Orc, or by taking Adopted (Orc - Tusked) as a Trait) using Martial Flexibility targeting Feral Combat Training to up all your Natural Attacks to your full Sacred Weapon damage, and then using Items to gain Claws, a Gore, a Tentacle, etc., in addition to Unarmed damage.
Both are surprisingly accurate and deal a pretty hilarious amount of damage when all is said and done.
Officially a Warpriest isn't a "Martial," but realistically, it doesn't actually cast a whole lot of spells on OTHER people - most of its spell preparation goes to fueling its fervor-casting abilities.
Thanks! Interesting. Not surprisingly, the main idea of those Warpriest builds (piling up natural attacks) seem to be rather similar to my Bloodrager.
Hmmm... FCT with Martial Flexibility? You mean Martial Versatility? Neat trick. And being limited to go (half-)human isn't exactly much of a drawback in most cases.
But aside from not being a martial class (though I'd probably call these "martial enough"), I wonder whether they would actually be able to compete at higher levels, despite obviously having an absolutely ridiculous number of attacks. But as I'm pretty much a total noob in regards to the Warpriest, maybe you could answer some of my questions, like how these builds:
- gain pounce - through 10 levels of barb? A WP feature? Polymorphing?
- up their damage and offset DR without Pummeling Style and/or massive Dex/damage boosts?
- up their accuracy, as they have a medium bab progression most levels?
(As a comparison, my silly str 54 bloodrager build typically pounces with five +47 (6d8+78/x3) claws, four +44 (3d6+38/2) other primary attacks and two +39 (2d6+22/x2) hooves, riding a str 48 griffon pouncing with five additional primary attacks.)
Probably the highest damage out there:
- Dragon Style UnMonk. Really ridiculous levels of damage at higher levels. Can use Style Strikes to great effect. Tons of ki attacks, Elemental Fury, the works.
- Nothing can beat a 20th level TWF Wakizashi Fighter in terms of sustained output. Auto crit confirm and higher crit multiplier is stupidly good. I'm sure there's an archetype that takes this even further over the edge. Ignores 10 points of DR with Penetrating Strike so that's pretty sweet.
Those are the ones that stand out to me as the best damage dealers.
EDIT: It is my firm belief that no DEX build will outdamage a STR build.
Thanks! Interesting. Not surprisingly, the main idea of those Warpriest builds (piling up natural attacks) seem to be rather similar to my Bloodrager.
Hmmm... FCT with Martial Flexibility? You mean Martial Versatility? Neat trick. And being limited to go (half-)human isn't exactly much of a drawback in most cases.
But aside from not being a martial class (though I'd probably call these "martial enough"), I wonder whether they would actually be able to compete at higher levels, despite obviously having an absolutely ridiculous number of attacks.
...
- gain pounce - through 10 levels of barb? A WP feature? Polymorphing?
- up their damage and offset DR without Pummeling Style and/or massive Dex/damage boosts?
- up their accuracy, as they have a medium bab progression most levels?
Pounce is nice but unnecessary for the Warpriest. The Barbarian is usually only taken for 2 levels, flat. You take the Barbarian to gain the Rage and access to Rage Powers; after that, you go back into Warpriest because otherwise your damage is going to be lessened significantly otherwise.
Barbarian-Warpriests can seriously pump their accuracy by:
1) Activating Rage
2) Activating Sacred Weapon
3) Fervor-casting accuracy-boosting spells like Divine Favor or Divine Power, Righteous Might, Stat-boosting spells, etc.
If you're in it for the long run, a Scion of Humanity Aasimar is probably your best bet.
A SOHA Unarmed Warpriest gets 20 total Feats (2 fewer than a Human Fighter), takes Angelic Blood, Angelic Flesh, Angel Wings, and Metallic Wings to gain a 1 free Wing Natural Attack without taking a Trait. You then buy items that give you as many Natural Attacks you can get.
Taking:
Weapon Focus (Unarmed),
Weapon Focus (Wings),
Weapon Specialization (Unarmed),
Greater Weapon Focus (Unarmed),
Greater Weapon Specialization (Unarmed),
Feral Combat Training (Wings),
Martial Versatility (Feral Combat Training)
gives you a constant +2 Attack, +4 damage to all Natural and Unarmed Attacks, effectively negating the Two-Weapon Fighting penalties, and upping your Natural Weapons attack bonus to BAB-3.
If your DM allows you to take Multiattack, you effectively make ALL your Natural Attacks at your highest BAB (since the Focus feats give +2 to them, while they're at -2, thus canceling the values).
In addition, because of how FCT and Unarmed Strikes work, Natural Attacks used this way bypass the need to charge each weapon individually with Sacred Weapon: Unarmed Strikes, regardless of what limb you use, are a single target, and FCT+Martial Versatility takes all effect affecting Unarmed Strikes and applies them simultaneously to your Natural Weapons; so, burning 1 Sacred Weapon use applies it to all your Natural Weapons as a result.
At lv20, for 1 minute per day, you can treat your Warpriest level as your Base Attack Bonus,
With all these natural attack builds, consider dipping a little into kinetecist. Kinetic fist will add 1d6 of your chosen element to each of those strikes.
Just something that jumps out to me... not sure if it'll actually be better than another level at some point.
EDIT: It is my firm belief that no DEX build will outdamage a STR build.
Well, your belief is WRONG, but only when you say "no".
You are right that MOST Strength-based builds will beat out a similar Dex-based build without Natural Weapons.
A Dex-based Two-Weapon Fighting Natural Weapons Warpriest will out-damage a Strength-based Sacred Fist hands-down by view of having lots and lots of Natural Attacks.
Even when they have the same number and types of Bonuses applied to their attacks, damage, and relevant stats, the simple fact that the Warpriest puts more "bullets" in the air at a level of accuracy that's actually better than the SF's means that it edges out more total damage than the Sacred Fist.
That being said, each individual Attack of the Sacred Fist DOES hit harder than the Warpriests', and the Warpriest needs 3 or more Natural Attacks to edge out damage over the Sacred Fist (pre-errata... now the Warpriest wins without Natural Attacks due to having Fighter feats).
---
Dex builds win out in that they naturally can take the TWF feats to gain more attacks, and Natural Weapons are Finesse-able, so having a very-high Dex and minimal Str has no drawbacks for such builds.
Ranger and Slayer can both bypass the TWF requirements and instead be Str-based TWFers; however, THEY don't have scaling damage.
Monks, Sacred Fists, and Brawlers all have Scaling Damage AND can use a faux Two-Weapon Fighting style with Strength, but their number of attacks have a hard limit because you can't mix Natural Weapons with Flurries to gain more attacks.
Warpriest is the only class that has both Scaling damage and the ability to combine Natural Attacks and standard Attacks, so it REALLY churns out the damage.
---
BUUUUUUUUUT, even then, the Warpriest doesn't beat out the Barbarian, Paladin, etc.
Combining Two-Handed Fighting with huge boosts to Strength and other bonuses means that those monsters can do even more damage than a Sacred Fist or Warpriest.
Maybe if you take a 3-level dip into Rogue, but then you'll never actually hit Greater Rage, or other abilities, so... yeah.
Dex Builds CAN easily beat out Strength-based builds, but only one-handed or two-weapon builds; Two-Handed seems like it's STILL squarely in the hands of Str builds, unless someone figures out how to make a 3-level Rogue Dip build that can somehow match the damage output of single-class 2-handed Str warriors.
With all these natural attack builds, consider dipping a little into kinetecist. Kinetic fist will add 1d6 of your chosen element to each of those strikes.
Just something that jumps out to me... not sure if it'll actually be better than another level at some point.
The problem is that you're losing a BAB for what amounts to adding Flaming/Frost/Shocking/Corrosive to an Amulet of Mighty Fists.
Actually, it's WORSE than that in practice, because at least Flaming, etc. doesn't result in a negative BAB - taking a level in Kineticist just to gain +1d6 elemental damage halts your BAB progression by a level.
Probably the highest damage out there:
- Dragon Style UnMonk. Really ridiculous levels of damage at higher levels. Can use Style Strikes to great effect. Tons of ki attacks, Elemental Fury, the works.
Well, at least on the surface, this does seem like it could be a plausible plan. I'm guessing 15+ levels of UnMonk and a Monk's Robe for a flurry of 7+ unarmed strikes with a maxed out monk UAS die at 8d8 (with haste, enlarge and strong jaw, via wand + UMD or whatever). And then using something like a Flying Kick for a pounce-ish flurry, at the very least boosted by Dragon Style + Ferocity and Horn of the Criosphinx for reasonably carefree movement and a 2.5 x str and +18 Power Attack damage bonus. Does that about summarize the concept?
However, if going by my criteria in the OP and my guesses about the build are somewhat accurate, I suspect there might be a few proverbial party-poopers at this UnMonk's DPR-fiesta, keeping the mood from reaching that total overkill nirvana for example offered by the raging mayhem happening at the natural attack dude's place next door. This suspicion might very well just be because of my limited knowledge of the UnMonk specifics, but I'm thinking especially of:
- What is used as a "pounce" ability, and can that be treated as a charge? At least when looking at Flying Kick, I believe I can see arguments being made against it (though I personally think it should fly).
- If the movement part of the pounce ability is limited to Fast Movement (as in the case of Flying Kick), how is that enhancement bonus increased by an additional 25+ ft.?
- The monk doesn't get anything like the huge str bonuses accessible to a rager and won't have the full-bab attacks of a natural attacker (and thus also gain less from related multiplying boosts like Horn of the Criosphinx). So how much does "tons of ki attacks, Elemental Fury, the works" actually add up to in terms of accuracy and damage that can be kept up during several consecutive rounds/day?
- Most importantly, if relying on flurry, how does the monk increase the number of attacks he can make? I mean his hasted flurry of 4 full-babs + 3 iteratives doesn't get him very far (unless his damage boosts are far greater than what any other build can achieve).
- And finally, if the UnMonk has really great attack and damage boosts, wouldn't it gain more from simply ignoring flurry and going TWF with MoMS (I assume this works with the UnMonk), netting a hasted total of 8 attacks in a "Pummeling Dragon" combo?
- Nothing can beat a 20th level TWF Wakizashi Fighter in terms of sustained output. Auto crit confirm and higher crit multiplier is stupidly good. I'm sure there's an archetype that takes this even further over the edge. Ignores 10 points of DR with Penetrating Strike so that's pretty sweet.
Those are the ones that stand out to me as the best damage dealers.
EDIT: It is my firm belief that no DEX build will outdamage a STR build.
You're probably right about the fighter if we're talking about something like "sustainable beyond 100 rounds of combat per day". And I share your belief regarding str vs. dex builds.
Pounce is nice but unnecessary for the Warpriest. The Barbarian is usually only taken for 2 levels, flat. You take the Barbarian to gain the Rage and access to Rage Powers; after that, you go back into Warpriest because otherwise your damage is going to be lessened significantly otherwise.
How is it pouncing is unnecessary for the WP? I can't really find anything in the class features that would make this true. But perhaps there's something like a variant of Dimensional Dervish or other spell trick available to the WP I haven't heard of (although with the WP's daily spell slots such an option does seem pretty limited).
Anyhow, especially in the case of one-shotting an enemy like the tarrasque from outside its usual charge radius (ie more than 80 ft. away), having an extremely powerful charge, preferably flying and being able to move unhindered through difficult terrain, blocking opponents as well as allies, is paramount for a melee build. And especially in the case of builds like this type of WP, which base their DPR potential primarily on having many attacks, I don't really see how anything short of being able to full attack at the end of a charge is going to cut it.
Regarding MC barb, yeah, I see what you mean, WP seems to be sort of an "all-or-nothing" kinda deal in many ways.
Barbarian-Warpriests can seriously pump their accuracy by:
1) Activating Rage
2) Activating Sacred Weapon
3) Fervor-casting accuracy-boosting spells like Divine Favor or Divine Power, Righteous Might, Stat-boosting spells, etc.
What do you think this would this amount to at 20th? Are we talking something like a +30 bonus, a +40 or more like a +50 bonus on the most accurate attacks?
If you're in it for the long run, a Scion of Humanity Aasimar is probably your best bet.
A SOHA Unarmed Warpriest gets 20 total Feats (2 fewer than a Human Fighter), takes Angelic Blood, Angelic Flesh, Angel Wings, and Metallic Wings to gain a 1 free Wing Natural Attack without taking a Trait. You then buy items that give you as many Natural Attacks you can get.
The angelic wings were one of the options suggested in the original GitPG thread which inspired my build, but it didn't get much support. I don't think this really flies very well (paradoxically enough) except in the case of builds that have tons of feats to spare (which is extremely unusual for natural attackers). Otherwise, the DPR gain per feat simply won't cut it. And compare it to, for example, going with a wereboar-kin skinwalker instead: you could have two hoof attacks straight ouf-of-the-box to combine with your UAS and whatever claw/bite/gore options you choose.
But the SoHA is of course still an awesome choice in many other respects, I think in the case of a natural attacker notably by giving access to Martial Versatility on top of all the usual aasimar goodies and customization options.
Taking:
Weapon Focus (Unarmed),
Weapon Focus (Wings),
Weapon Specialization (Unarmed),
Greater Weapon Focus (Unarmed),
Greater Weapon Specialization (Unarmed),
Feral Combat Training (Wings),
Martial Versatility (Feral Combat Training)gives you a constant +2 Attack, +4...
If you can access MV and have tons of extra feat slots, this is undoubtedly a great setup. Though as mentioned, for any build with fewer "open-for-anything" slots available, I'd change the outrageously high number of feat slots occupied by wing stuff for one or more of the many much more vital or powerful combos on the wishlist (for example the other parts of the above combo I wouldn't have been able to afford had I gone for the wings).
It also seems like WF by itself is even more of a waste for most natural attack builds than for weapon builds, as they're unlikely to be struggling for accuracy with their full-bab attacks and usually don't need it as a prereq for anything vital besides FCT. I'd sacrifice the absolutely bare minimum of slots on WF required to get FCT on my most important natural attacks. Which, especially in the case of a build with access to MV as far as I understand it, would actually end up being a total of zero feat slots, as I'd much rather spend 2,000 gp on a cheap cracked Opalescent White Pyramid ioun and a Wayfinder as soon as I can find and afford one.
But speaking of great value feats, I think especially four really stand out for most natural attackers if you can make room for their prerequisites:
1. Dragon Style - It makes charging so much easier, especially during the levels when you're mostly grounded. If you can charge and full attack, this should probably be your first feat once you have FCT.
2. Dragon Ferocity - Half your str to your pounce attacks is awesome. It requires Stunning Fist, making it a good idea to dip MoMS to get both for free along with IUS and the ability to merge style feats.
3. Horn of the Criosphinx - Twice your str on charge attacks. It's pretty hilarious by itself, but it also stacks with the bonus of Dragon Ferocity and also increases the bonus of Power Attack. I actually don't think any other combat feat in the game can offer as large a damage bonus as this does to str builds with the prerequisite monk levels and a charge focus. In most cases, we're talking adding between +16 to +30 to every UAS/FCT:ed natural attack in a charge, which could easily be more than 5 or even 10 attacks.
4. Extra Discovery (X extra limb) - If you have room for the 2-level dip into alchemist (which can net you other goodies like SA damage and Mutagen as well), this is probably the fastest and least costly way to increase your number of natural attacks outside of being a synth. Grab vestigial arm twice (once with the alchemist level and once using the feat) and you can for example have two additional claw attacks. Or simply get tentacles and boost with Multiattack if needed.
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There's really too many variables to name one class KING DPR. To name a few -
1. What's the point buy? The higher the point buy - the better MAD builds get.
2. What's the level?
3. How much defense are you willing to sacrifice?
4. Does it have to be consistent, or are we counting damage spikes?
5. How are you buffed? A TWF build gains less from Haste, but he gains far more from having a Bard buddy around.
Many more...
I will put TWF Samurai as one of the top dogs. Between getting Weapon Focus/Spec and challenge for 1 damage/level for each swing from Challenge for each and every swing - he's certainly near the top of the bell curve.
It does require higher point-buy (at least 20, though that would mean some stat dumping) to work due to needing high STR & DEX. But at level 12 without any magic items at all you get 6 swings for 1d6+22 (+2/15-20) each. (Make it a half-orc to get 1 1d4+15 bite attack as gravy. :P)
With pretty decent gear (+4 STR belt, +3 weapons, Deliquescent Gloves) a lvl 12 Half-Orc, Order of the Green, Samurai against the standard AC 27 with no buffs besides his own Challenge -
+27/+27/+22/+22/+17/+17 1d6+27(+2/15-20)+1d6 /+19 +1d4+16 (20)
213.86125 average DPR (16.1 of which is acid) - more vs undead/aberration
I'm not sure if that makes TWF Samurai the DPR king - but they're certainly in the running
BUUUUUUUUUT, even then, the Warpriest doesn't beat out the Barbarian, Paladin, etc.
Combining Two-Handed Fighting with huge boosts to Strength and other bonuses means that those monsters can do even more damage than a Sacred Fist or Warpriest.
Maybe...
Just a note: so far, I haven't seen a primarily two-handed build of any martial class able to beat the DPR numbers of a natural attack focused build, at basically any level. (Although I guess some kind of combo build could probably be competitive.) So in conclusion, am I correct in assuming you're basically saying that a WP build is pretty much out of the question for the purpose of fitting the criterions I put up in the OP?
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To be honest, this isn't my cup of tea, but. I wanted to give it a small try, I am positive I have forgotten some more feats/gear that would aid in this guys DPR but eh. I only had an hour. I mean, this guys is hitting on anything but 1s so, yeah.
Another option is to just kite the damned thing until dead by use of blood crow strike. (1ki)
or, the preferred approach, Abundant step in, full attack, then Abundant step out. Note he gets +2 to hit during this full attack. If anyone out there has any other idea/advice/tips let me know. It may come up some day haha.
Stats: 20pt buy
Race: Aasimar (archon-blooded, swap SLA for +2str)
Str: 23(+2+4) (36)
Dex: 14 (22)
Con: 14(+2) (22)
Int: 07
Wis: 18(+2+1) (28)
Cha: 07
Offense: Movement: 90ft
Unarmed Strike: +42/+42/+42/+42/+37/+32/+27 (20BaB+13str+5magic+3WP+1WF-1size+1stone)
Damage: 8d8+30
PA unarmed: +36/+36/+36/+36/+31/+26/+21
Damage: 8d8+48
Style Strikes: Shattering Punch/Hammerblow
Feats:
1- Iron will,Dodge
2- combat reflexes
3- Dragon Style
5- Dragon Ferocity
6- Mobility
7- Extra ki
9- Dimensional Agility
10- Medusa's Wrath
11- Dimensional Assault
13- Dimensional Dervish
15- Dimensional Savante
16- Improved Critical
17- weapon focus Unarmed strikes, extra ki
18- Power attack
19- Improved Natural Attack
20- Weapon specialization unarmed strikes
Ki powers: 23ki
4- ki metabolism
6- Qinggong power (barkskin)
8- Abundant Step
10- Sudden Speed
12- Diamond Soul
14- Qinggong Power (blood crow Strike)
Permanency Spells:
Greater magic Fang +5
enlarge person
Magical Items:
Belt of Physical Perfection +6
Headband of Wisdom +6
Manual Of Gainful exercise +5
Tome of understanding +4
Amulet of Might Fists +5 (Impact, Speed)
ring of Ki mastery
Necklace of ki serenity
Gloves of Dueling
Monks Robes
+1 to hit Ioun Stone
BUUUUUUUUUT, even then, the Warpriest doesn't beat out the Barbarian, Paladin, etc.
Combining Two-Handed Fighting with huge boosts to Strength and other bonuses means that those monsters can do even more damage than a Sacred Fist or Warpriest.
Maybe...
Just a note: so far, I haven't seen a primarily two-handed build of any martial class able to beat the DPR numbers of a natural attack focused build, at basically any level. (Although I guess some kind of combo build could probably be competitive.) So in conclusion, am I correct in assuming you're basically saying that a WP build is pretty much out of the question for the purpose of fitting the criterions I put up in the OP?
Well, no - it's in for consideration, but mainly because of the combo of Scaling Damage + Full TWF Attacks featuring Natural Attacks.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the Natural Weapons Warpriest WOULDN'T win out, but I could be wrong.
I've never built one to lv20 AND maxed out the number of Natural Attacks available, so the first thing to figure out would be exactly HOW many Natural Attacks a single character can get.
I think that the Mutagenic Mauler brawler deserves mention. With an hour of preparation between fights, you end up with nice stat bonuses and natural armor.
Stick with brawler to flurry, augmenting damage with alchemical STR bonuses and many attacks; or grab a two-handed weapon, take brawler to 6, and start dipping barbarian/fighter/ranger to gain access to other damage-boosting options. Warpriest 4+ is a nice dip (or straight continuation) these days: divine favor eventually yields a +1 to attack/damage (+2 with one of fate's favored and magical knack, +3 with both) for the cost of a swift action. Mutagenic Mauler brawler 6-8/warpriest (possibly Sacred Fist) X is, in my opinion, interesting.
There's really too many variables to name one class KING DPR. To name a few -
1. What's the point buy? The higher the point buy - the better MAD builds get.
2. What's the level?
3. How much defense are you willing to sacrifice?
4. Does it have to be consistent, or are we counting damage spikes?
5. How are you buffed? A TWF build gains less from Haste, but he gains far more from having a Bard buddy around.
Many more...
Please note that this is not (or at least was not) a contest. I made this thread mostly in order to find DPR-focused builds already made, and I put up the criterions as a means of specifying what I was looking for.
But I agree there are naturally tons of variables affecting DPR, and I realize I forgot to mention some of this in the OP. And maybe it could be fun to actually make the criterions more detailed to test new martial DPR builds?
If so, this is how I'd answer your questions:
1. I think 20 is reasonable as it opens for more builds able to fit the criterions, and as it happens to be what I used in the build that spurred my curiosity.
2. Level 20. Already in the OP, but I see I was a bit unclear. I'll edit.
3. This is a pretty silly exercise exclusively for "don't do this at home"-builds to begin with, so I don't know if there's any real value to be found in limiting how much durability can be ignored. That said, a build able to live up to the criterions and also has the durability and versatility to survive and be useful in more ways in a real game is of course more interesting.
4. Sorta answered in the OP, but it should be more precise if consistency is to serve as a test criterion. Let's say a matching build would have to be able to produce a DPR of at least 600 each round if the scenario was played out a total of 20 times with no additional rounds of preparation in between, more or less as if fighting twenty evenly spaced out tarrasques that happen to remain stationary.
5. Ooops! Completely forgot to mention this in the OP. But basically, the numbers presented were drawn from a simple play test challenge - to solo one-shot the tarrasque before it could attack. So I'd say any buffs with a duration of more than five minutes could be treated as already activated and as remaining active, and any buffs with a shorter duration the build could reasonably activate in the time between spotting (and being spotted by) the tarrasque and being within charge distance of the monster. Which in the play test would've translated into approximately 2 rounds IIRC.
Hmm... Maybe I should also add other factors from the play test. Such as the 300 ft. DC 27 frightful presence aura? And maybe that a build could start at the distance of their choosing at least say 100 ft. from the target in an area of barren rocky (difficult) terrain. Abilities that depend on being hidden would also have to include the build being able to beat Perception +43 more often than not.
I will put TWF Samurai as one of the top dogs. Between getting Weapon Focus/Spec and challenge for 1 damage/level for each swing from Challenge for each and every swing - he's certainly near the top of the bell curve.
It does require higher point-buy (at least 20, though that would mean some stat dumping) to work due to needing high STR & DEX. But at level 12 without any magic items at all you get 6 swings for 1d6+22 (+2/15-20) each. (Make it a half-orc to get 1 1d4+15 bite attack as gravy. :P)
With pretty decent gear (+4 STR belt, +3 weapons, Deliquescent Gloves) a lvl 12 Half-Orc, Order of the Green, Samurai against the standard AC 27 with no buffs besides his own Challenge -
+27/+27/+22/+22/+17/+17 1d6+27(+2/15-20)+1d6 /+19 +1d4+16 (20)
213.86125 average DPR (16.1 of which is acid) - more vs undead/aberration
I'm not sure if that makes TWF Samurai the DPR king - but they're certainly in the running
This looks promising, though I wonder whether he can remain as competitive at 20th and be able to one-shot the tarrasque repeatedly. I'd love to see a 20th level build!
Feral Combat Training cannot be used to increase natural weapon damage dice anymore.
Sooooo
Dragon Style UnMonk?
To be honest, this isn't my cup of tea, but. I wanted to give it a small try, I am positive I have forgotten some more feats/gear that would aid in this guys DPR but eh. I only had an hour. I mean, this guys is hitting on anything but 1s so, yeah.
Another option is to just kite the damned thing until dead by use of blood crow strike. (1ki)
or, the preferred approach, Abundant step in, full attack, then Abundant step out. Note he gets +2 to hit during this full attack. If anyone out there has any other idea/advice/tips let me know. It may come up some day haha.
** spoiler omitted **
And we have our first actual build posted! Yay! Cookies and cred to you, rorek55!
Hmmm... I think especially when considering you spent no more than an hour and this not being your cup of tea, your build is quite impressive IMO. Looks like a true Kung-Fu Hustler (seems I can't think of an Abundant Charger monk without having that scene instantly popping up in my mind)...
Let's see how those numbers match up, shall we?
Abundant charging the big nasty test-tarrasque with PA gives the monk's four first attacks a hit probability of 90.25% (+38 vs. AC 40, crit on 20), a crit probability of 4.75% and a miss probability of 5%. The average damage per hit is 84, ie 75.81 DPR, and 168 per crit, ie 7.98 DPR.
That's a total DPR of 83.8 per hit when looking only at the monk's four best attacks, which corresponds to about 14% of the required 600 DPR (or roughly 16% of the actual tarrasque's starting hp). So provided rorek55 listed the correct numbers, we can say for certain that this build won't be anywhere near any solo tarrasque one-shotting.
All four of these most accurate attacks adds up to a DPR of 335.2. If we add his iteratives, +33/+28/+23, that increases by an additional 119.2. Total DPR 454.4
Not bad from a single-class build. I think it also says something about the big damage dealing improvement the UnMonk is in comparison to the OMonk (which I guess in most cases wouldn't be able to do anything much to the tarrasque besides annoying it).
Feral Combat Training cannot be used to increase natural weapon damage dice anymore.
Sooooo
Dragon Style UnMonk?
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're referring to. FCT has never increased natural weapon damage dice by default.
FCT-ed naturals might get boosts otherwise limited to UAS that increase damage dice, but AFAIK that would fall under the same restrictions as any damage dice, and doesn't change how far natural attack dice can be improved (starting size/die + magic actual size increase + greatest "virtual" size (strong jaw) increase).
The one "exception" to this would be the improved damage die of the monk's UAS feature, as that isn't actually called a damage die size increase and doesn't follow the normal die size tables, and would stack just fine with for example strong jaw.
Or did you think about something else?
I was just saying because now FCT does no longer allow natural attacks to benefit from effects that augment Unarmed Strike such as Monk UAS or Warpriest SW, or Weapon Focus/Specialization and so forth.
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This looks promising, though I wonder whether he can remain as competitive at 20th and be able to one-shot the tarrasque repeatedly. I'd love to see a 20th level build!
Alright - *cracks knuckles*
At 20th for the Half-Orc, Order of the Green, Samurai against the standard AC 36 (seems low for lvl 20 - but whatever) with no buffs besides his own Challenge (going crit build - Bleeding Crit & Stunning both)- Of note - it'd get slightly better DPR with a some sort of dip - but it didn't feel right - and it'd miss the capstone!
+45/+45/+40/+40/+35/+35/+30/+30 1d6+42(+6/15-20)+5d6elemental /+37 1d4+30 (+4/20) /+37 1d6+30 (+4/20)
639.8 DPR - plus 2.375 saves vs stun d4 rounds (DC 30) and nearly guaranteed at least staggered d4 rounds (likely roll at least twice and take the higher)
(could probably be tweaked even better)
However - despite that being more than the Tarrasque's HP by a good margin, 3d6 of the elemental (acid/fire) wouldn't hurt it (reduce DPR by 85.575), the DR 15/epic would be significant (reduce DPR by 136.5), and its AC of 40 vs the standard 36 would reduce it a bit more (not much due to accuracy - far less of a difference than most lvl 20 DPR builds) though in the unlikely event it failed a fort save vs crit stun, its AC would drop to 35.
So - DPR vs Tarrasque would be right around 400ish. So - it'd take two rounds to 'kill' solo, between which the Tarrasque would get only a single swing due to being staggered. (11.875% chance of being stunned)
He could probably do it in a single round if he were buffed properly. Also - if built for this specific challenge - he wouldn't bother with the acid/fire damage and put weapon buffs on other stuff.
In addition - I didn't buy him any items which no normal build would have in order to boost DPR. (kept his cloak slot open for Resis & neck open for AoNA etc)
NATURAL WEAPONS WARPRIEST
Scion of Humanity Aasimar Warpriest lv20
Stats Str 15 (9+6) / Dex 32 (17+4+5+6) / Con 20 (14+6) / Int 12 / Wis 16 (14+2) / Cha 9 (7+2+1)
Traits Fate’s Favored, Adopted (Orc – Tusked)
Race Aasimar
Deity Korada, Irori
Blessings Community/Strength, ???
Feats
Weapon Finesse, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Double Slice, Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike), Weapon Focus (Wings) Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike), Greater Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike), Greater Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike), Feral Combat Training (Wings), Martial Versatility (Feral Combat Training), Angelic Blood, Angelic Flesh – Steel, Angel Wings, Metallic Wings, Skill Focus (Perception), Eldritch Heritage (Draconic), Power Attack, Improved Critical
Sacred Weapon +5
Sacred Armor +4 Brawling
Gear
Agile, Corrosive, Flaming, Frost, Shocking Amulet of Mighty Fists
Tentacle Cloak
Helm of the Mammoth Lord
Belt of Physical Perfection +6
Manual of Quickness of Action +5
Glove of Storing
Wand of Dimension Door
Optimum Active Buffs
Greater/Weapon Focus/Specialization (Perm)
Power Attack (1 Round, Free)
Aspect of War (10 Rounds, Swift)
+4 Brawling Sacred Armor (200 Rounds, Swift) & +5 Sacred Weapon (20rounds, Free)
Community Blessing (10 Rounds, Standard)/Strength Blessing (1 Round, Swift)
Divine Power (20 Rounds, Spell)
Contagious Zeal (20 Rounds, Spell)
Weapon of Awe (200 Rounds, Spell)
Prior To Battle Greater/Weapon Focus/Specialization; Antilife Shell
[i]Round 1 Weapon of Awe, Swift; Divine Power, Standard
Round 2 Aspect of War, Swift; Contagious Zeal, Standard
Round 3 Sacred Weapon & Sacred Armor, Swift; Glove of Storing, Free; Wand of Dimension Door to get into position,
Round 4 Strength Blessing, Swift; Full Attack Action, Full-Round
Primary Unarmed 2d8[9]+11(Dex)+5(Enh)+7(Luck)+2(Brawling)+2(Morale)+2(Sacred)+ 4(Specialization)+12(Power Attack)+4d6[14] (68) x5
Offhand Unarmed 2d8[9]+11(Dex)+5(Enh)+7(Luck)+2(Brawling)+2(Morale)+2(Sacred)+ 4(Specialization)+6(Power Attack)+4d6[14] (62) x3
Wing/Tentacle/Gore/Bite Natural 2d8[9]+5(Dex)+5(Enh)+7(Luck)+2(Brawling)+2(Morale)+2(Sacred)+ 4(Specialization)+6(Power Attack)+4d6[14] (56) x6
Claw Natural 2d8[9]+5(Dex)+5(Enh)+7(Luck)+2(Brawling)+2(Morale)+2(Sacred)+ 4(Specialization)+6(Power Attack)+4d6[14]+2d6[7] (63) x2
Full Attack at lv20, Community Blessing (Dex +11, Weapon Focus +2, Two-Weapon Fighting -2, Enhancement +5, Luck +7, Insight +2, Brawling +2, Morale +2, -6 Power Attack)
+43 (Unarmed) / +45 (Unarmed) / +45 (Unarmed) / +42 (Wing) / +42 (Wing) / +42 (Claw) / +42 (Claw) / +42 (Tentacle) / +42 (Tentacle) / +42 (Bite) / +42 (Gore) / +41 (Unarmed) / +41 (Unarmed) / +36 (Unarmed) / +36 (Unarmed) / +31 (Unarmed)
Avg Damage vs. AC 45 826.9
Full Attack at lv20, Community Blessing (Dex +11, Weapon Focus +2, Two-Weapon Fighting -2, Enhancement +10, Luck +7, Brawling +2, Morale +2, -6 Power Attack)
+48 (Unarmed) / +48 (Unarmed) / +48 (Unarmed) / +45 (Wing) / +45 (Wing) / +45 (Claw) / +45 (Claw) / +45 (Tentacle) / +45 (Tentacle) / +45 (Bite) / +45 (Gore) / +43 (Unarmed) / +43 (Unarmed) / +38 (Unarmed) / +38 (Unarmed) / +33 (Unarmed)
Avg. Damage vs AC 45 905.1
So... Vs. a Tarrasque, Acid and Fire Damage would be wasted, but adding Vicious to the Amulet of Mighty Fists would basically offset the loss of the Acid and Fire damage (except for the 2d6 from the Claws, but... meh).
You're pounding the Tarrasque's face in for over 800 damage regardless.
I was just saying because now FCT does no longer allow natural attacks to benefit from effects that augment Unarmed Strike such as Monk UAS or Warpriest SW, or Weapon Focus/Specialization and so forth.
I'm not sure where you're getting that.
Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.
Feral Combat Training and Unarmed Strike Damage: Does this allow me to use my monk unarmed damage with the selected natural attack?
Yes. The feat says you can apply "effects that augment an unarmed strike," and the monk's increased unarmed damage counts as such.
So FCT will apply Sacred Weapon scaling damage and Enhancement Effects to Natural Weapons as though they were Unarmed Strikes.
That means you only need to target Unarmed Strike with WS, GWF, & GWS for FCT to apply its effects to its targeted Natural Weapon.
In turn, Martial Versatility applies FCT to ALL weapons in the "Natural" Fighter Weapon Category.
Errata just got released.
Well...
F@%+ me, apparently. F!~# me HARD.
What exactly was the reasoning behind that?
Getting FCT to be silly was very, VERY hard, and required a character to count as a Fighter.
Well...
F&!@ me, apparently. F+@# me HARD.
I'd be up for it.
Also: my guess is that natural attacks is not something they see as a strategy they'd like to full endorse, due to rules weirdness and due to the whole concept being a little bit ersatz. I mean, Aasimar being the go-to race simply because they can get the obscure Wings natural attack is a little bit restrictive.
Wild Barbarian Mauler
Human mutagen-mauler 14 Brawler/4 Druid/2 Barbarian
Domain (Travel)
Mammoth hide 11,665
Helm of the mammoth 8,500
Cloak of the Wyvern 78,600
Amulet of mighty fists 36,000
monks robes 13,000
belt of strength and con 90000
headband of cha 6 90000
tome of strength 137,500
tome of con 137,500
tome of cha 2 55,500
Amulet of mighty fists 5 125,000
2x Boots of Speed 12,000
758573
defense
rest of the money
improved unarmed strike
power attack
Weapon Focus (bite)
edit this is before returning natural attacks to original die
Pummeling Style
skill focus Knowledge (planes)
eldritch heritage (abyssal)
extra rage
weapon focus (unarmed strike)
Improved Critical (unarmed strike)
improved eldritch heritage (strength of the abyss)
Horn of the Criosphinx
Feral combat style (Bite)
Martial Versatility (Feral combat style)
shaping focus
racial heritage kobold
Natural Spell
tail terror
traits
berzerker of the society
reactionary
9 of (1 fore-claw mega-raptor +1 tail slap, 2 claws Feral Mutagen + 2 talons mega-raptor + 1 gore helm of the mammoth lord + 1 sting cloak of the Wyvern+ 1 bite mega raptor)
h = .95 (19 Bab + 22 str + 6 enhancement + 3 mutagen +1 haste - 1 size - 5 power attack + 5 reckless abandon - 2 secondary = 48) hits on all but nat 1
d = 73.5 (12.5 average roll of 3d8 + 46 str + 5 power attack + 3 mutagen + 6 enhancement)
s = 14(14 average of 4d6)
t = 1 (19-20 critical focus feat)
c = 1
total 89.6325
2 of (first unarmed strike and haste)
h = .95 (19 Bab + 22 str + 6 enhancement + 3 mutagen +1 haste - 1 size - 5 power attack + 5 reckless abandon +1 Weapon Focus = 51) hits on all but nat 1
d = 78.5 (12.5 average roll of 3d8 + 46 str + 10 power attack + 3 mutagen + 6 enhancement)
s = 14(14 average of 4d6)
t = 1 (19-20 critical focus feat)
total 95.3325
1 of (second unarmed strike)
h = .95 (14 Bab + 22 str + 6 enhancement + 3 mutagen +1 haste - 1 size - 5 power attack + 5 reckless abandon +1 Weapon Focus = 46) hits on all but nat 1
d = 78.5 (12.5 average roll of 3d8 + 46 str + 10 power attack + 3 mutagen + 6 enhancement)
s = 14(14 average of 4d6)
t = 1 (19-20 critical focus feat)
total 95.3325
1 of (third unarmed strike)
h = .95 (9 Bab + 22 str + 6 enhancement + 3 mutagen +1 haste - 1 size - 5 power attack + 5 reckless abandon +1 Weapon Focus = 41) hits on all but nat 1
d = 78.5 (12.5 average roll of 3d8 + 46 str + 10 power attack + 3 mutagen + 6 enhancement)
s = 14(14 average of 4d6)
t = 1 (19-20 critical focus feat)
total 95.3325
1 of (fourth unarmed strike)
h = .80 (4 Bab + 22 str + 6 enhancement + 3 mutagen +1 haste - 1 size - 5 power attack + 5 reckless abandon +1 Weapon Focus = 36) hits on a 4 or higher
d = 78.5 (12.5 average roll of 3d8 + 46 str + 10 power attack + 3 mutagen + 6 enhancement)
s = 14(14 average of 4d6)
t = 1 (19-20 critical focus feat)
total 80.28
speed 85 without armor 60 with.
HP 290 (2d12 + 14d10 + 4d8 + 174)
with mutagen and rage 380
stats
str 43 dex 13 con 27 int 7 wis 14 cha 15
Strength 43 +16 (26 Base (start 20 plus all level-ups) + 6 Belt of Str, +6 Arcane Heritage, +5 Manual of Gainful Exercise)
can add +6 Mutagen +4 rage +4 Wild Shape
ending with 57 + 23
Con 27 +8 (16 base (start) + 6 belt of con + 5 Manual of Bodily Health)
can add +4 Mutagen +4 rage
ending with 35 + 12
OVERALL 1253.3025 (95.3325*4 + 80.28 + 89.6325*9-15)
every thing is before the Errata
and every thing is mega raptor size
with the Errata the new overall is
OVERALL 1184.38 (95.3325*4 + 80.28 + 80.7975*5 + 84.36*3 + 80.7025 -15)
i lost 68.9225 points of damage
at least I am still over
You cannot combine Brawler's Flurry with natural attacks, not even with FCT.
good thing i am not this is just a normal attack
Well...
F$*! me, apparently. F$~# me HARD.
What exactly was the reasoning behind that?
Getting FCT to be silly was very, VERY hard, and required a character to count as a Fighter.
I would call Giant Hippo/Ooze flurries pretty damn silly, especially with a virtual size booster tossed on.
Of course, that option is still there, so...Druids with a 1 level dip can have nice things?
I should note that the OP asked for no more than 4 levels in a class with 6+ spell levels. If that wasn't there, I would have just pointed him to the DPR Olympics/Summer Olympics thread and told him to take a look at the Druid/Synthesyst builds there.
Here's the highest damage sneak attack natural weapon build I can come up with off of the top of my head; a bit unoptimized, and it might have a few errors, but it will suffice for this purpose, as long as it steers clear of effects requiring Will saves.
** spoiler omitted **
I'm assuming you are not counting alchemists as spellcasters because of the simple fact that they are not. But if it makes a difference, the character could get by fine forgoing all extracts and just UMDing wands of the necessary buff spells (which is really only one, but I never say no to a free AC boost).With his buffs up and his boots or armor activated, this character has the following attack routine an a charge:
Bite +47 (1d8+25+22d6+44) average 150.5
Claw +48 (1d6+25+22d8+66) average 193.5
Claw +48 (1d6+25+22d8+66) average...
Ok first you never qualify for Nimble Striker, Or Vicious Claws Because you do not have the claws or sprinter rascal trait
Second you have to grapple the thing for 2 of your attacks With the cmd of 60 (that is what I am guessing because everything else is from The Tarrasque) and you don't even have a grapple attempt in thisand on you should only get 20 sneak attack dice with sap master
So it should be 20d6 +60
And my I ask how you got that strength
Sorry if I am forgetting something this is just what I got from looking at the build
You might want to look at this build and this post for inspiration (spoilers!)
I was thinking of that earlier and thought it would just be a little more damage for a lot more time but you convinced me to try and well it worked...
I reworked my build a little
take away weapon focus unarmed strike, natural spell and Multiattack replace with Pummeling Charge, Reckless rage and raging brutality
give the barbarian the Wild Rager archetype
change form mega raptor to Octopus, Giant Lake
NEW DPR 1996.115
a 811.735 Dmg difference
Unfortunately, without Feral Combat Training, Pummeling Charge only works with Unarmed Strikes.
Even WITH FCT, Natural Attacks working with Pummeling Strike/Charge was always a little suspect, and really up to DM discretion.
Unfortunately, without Feral Combat Training, Pummeling Charge only works with Unarmed Strikes.
Even WITH FCT, Natural Attacks working with Pummeling Strike/Charge was always a little suspect, and really up to DM discretion.
I do have faral combat training
So no mention of Mythic rules? You can do some FUN stuff with that, especially at levels 16-20.
Vital Strike starts getting worthwhile.
Here's a build that is absolutely ridiculous and would never, ever be used in an actual game.
But hey, that's why we're here.
Not all aasimar are descended from humans. Aasimars can be born of any intelligent race, though human aasimars are the most common....It should be noted that while any creature that breeds with a celestial may give birth to half-celestial offspring, only humanoids can give birth to aasimars....Non-human aasimars have the same statistics as human aasimars with the exception of size. Thus a halfling aasimar is Small but otherwise possesses the same statistics and abilities as a human aasimar—the difference is purely cosmetic.The following aasimar character is descended from rune giants, and therefore has a starting size of gargantuan, increased to colossal by permanencied enlarge person.
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...
Sorry, I don't get it. How did you do over 2000 damage in one round using Vital Strike tree? You can only use one Vital Strike per round so I don't get it.
Sorry, I don't get it. How did you do over 2000 damage in one round using Vital Strike tree? You can only use one Vital Strike per round so I don't get it.Here's a build that is absolutely ridiculous and would never, ever be used in an actual game.
But hey, that's why we're here.
Not all aasimar are descended from humans. Aasimars can be born of any intelligent race, though human aasimars are the most common....It should be noted that while any creature that breeds with a celestial may give birth to half-celestial offspring, only humanoids can give birth to aasimars....Non-human aasimars have the same statistics as human aasimars with the exception of size. Thus a halfling aasimar is Small but otherwise possesses the same statistics and abilities as a human aasimar—the difference is purely cosmetic.The following aasimar character is descended from rune giants, and therefore has a starting size of gargantuan, increased to colossal by permanencied enlarge person.
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...
Mythic rules? Please say Mythic... I adore that book.
Here's a build that is absolutely ridiculous and would never, ever be used in an actual game.
But hey, that's why we're here.
Not all aasimar are descended from humans. Aasimars can be born of any intelligent race, though human aasimars are the most common....It should be noted that while any creature that breeds with a celestial may give birth to half-celestial offspring, only humanoids can give birth to aasimars....Non-human aasimars have the same statistics as human aasimars with the exception of size. Thus a halfling aasimar is Small but otherwise possesses the same statistics and abilities as a human aasimar—the difference is purely cosmetic.The following aasimar character is descended from rune giants, and therefore has a starting size of gargantuan, increased to colossal by permanencied enlarge person.
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...
so first you get knocked down with every use of the gun
second he still is fatigued because of the wording of furious finish and the ioun stonethe ioun stone states when you would become fatigued you are sickened and Furious Finish states you are fatigued even if normally not possible
since it dose not say when you are fatigued you become sickened and remove the fatigued
but you are instead sickened you are fatigued
third in the calculations you show you do not account for DR
Also, can you use readied actions this way? I thought it was in response to external stimuli, is this use actually rules legal?
Mythic vital strike doesn't allow one to make multiple attacks with vital strike though. It allows one to multiply other damage bonus that would multiply normally in a critical hit with Vital Strike.
lvl20 Bloodrager with Mythic Vital Strike, Mythic Spell Casting, Mythic Enlarge Person. +5 Transformative Impact Furious Courageous Nodachi that transform into Large Baster Sword. Make it foe-biting. Arcane Strike. Furious Finish. Mythic Power Attack. Indominable(Immune to fatigue).
Large Impact Baster Sword = 3d8, Mythic Enlarge person = 6d8
Mythic Vital Strike> Furious Finish, weapon= 4x 6d8 = 24d8= 192
Mythic Vital Strike> Arcane Strike = 4x5=20
Mythic Vital Strike> Mythic Power Attack= 4x(6x3x1.5)=4x27 =108
Mythic Vital Strike> Strength(+10)=4x((10+2*+7#)x1.5)=4x28 =112
*(Mythic Enlarge Person), #(Furious Courageous)
Mythic Vital Strike> Enchantment Bouns= 4x7#= 28
Sub Total= 192+20+108+112+28= 460
Foe Biting Total = 920, No rolling for damage.
Now that is just with magical weapon alone, with no other magical items. That's how you would use mythic vital strike, so I don't understand how you will be able to deal over 2000 damage with more than one vital strike in one round.
Mythic vital strike doesn't allow one to make multiple attacks with vital strike though. It allows one to multiply other damage bonus that would multiply normally in a critical hit with Vital Strike.
lvl20 Bloodrager with Mythic Vital Strike, Mythic Spell Casting, Mythic Enlarge Person. +5 Transformative Impact Furious Courageous Nodachi that transform into Large Baster Sword. Make it foe-biting. Arcane Strike. Furious Finish. Mythic Power Attack. Indominable(Immune to fatigue).
Large Impact Baster Sword = 3d8, Mythic Enlarge person = 6d8
Mythic Vital Strike> Furious Finish, weapon= 4x 6d8 = 24d8= 192
Mythic Vital Strike> Arcane Strike = 4x5=20
Mythic Vital Strike> Mythic Power Attack= 4x(6x3x1.5)=4x27 =108
Mythic Vital Strike> Strength(+10)=4x((10+2*+7#)x1.5)=4x28 =112
*(Mythic Enlarge Person), #(Furious Courageous)
Mythic Vital Strike> Enchantment Bouns= 4x7#= 28
Sub Total= 192+20+108+112+28= 460
Foe Biting Total = 920, No rolling for damage.Now that is just with magical weapon alone, with no other magical items. That's how you would use mythic vital strike, so I don't understand how you will be able to deal over 2000 damage with more than one vital strike in one round.
Ah, but mythic rules allow for an extra standard action, which you can use for Vital Strike, so you could feasibly do two of them.
Ah, but mythic rules allow for an extra standard action, which you can use for Vital Strike, so you could feasibly do two of them.Mythic vital strike doesn't allow one to make multiple attacks with vital strike though. It allows one to multiply other damage bonus that would multiply normally in a critical hit with Vital Strike.
lvl20 Bloodrager with Mythic Vital Strike, Mythic Spell Casting, Mythic Enlarge Person. +5 Transformative Impact Furious Courageous Nodachi that transform into Large Baster Sword. Make it foe-biting. Arcane Strike. Furious Finish. Mythic Power Attack. Indominable(Immune to fatigue).
Large Impact Baster Sword = 3d8, Mythic Enlarge person = 6d8
Mythic Vital Strike> Furious Finish, weapon= 4x 6d8 = 24d8= 192
Mythic Vital Strike> Arcane Strike = 4x5=20
Mythic Vital Strike> Mythic Power Attack= 4x(6x3x1.5)=4x27 =108
Mythic Vital Strike> Strength(+10)=4x((10+2*+7#)x1.5)=4x28 =112
*(Mythic Enlarge Person), #(Furious Courageous)
Mythic Vital Strike> Enchantment Bouns= 4x7#= 28
Sub Total= 192+20+108+112+28= 460
Foe Biting Total = 920, No rolling for damage.Now that is just with magical weapon alone, with no other magical items. That's how you would use mythic vital strike, so I don't understand how you will be able to deal over 2000 damage with more than one vital strike in one round.
You mean Amazing Initiative? You can only use this once per round though, so where did the third Vital Strike came from?