Mystic Bolt Questions

[Thrawn007]

I think it is time to TRY and skew the results. Lets look for the ways to abuse this as is. If it's coming up short in those cases, the point is made. I've heard no new information in a week on this topic in spite of hundreds of posts.

So I'm saying it's time to look at something new. This argument isn't adding any value anymore. So the challenge is...build the most broken multiclass builds you can.

[Tuyena]

Warlock 4/Inquisitor the rest. Done.

[Thrawn007]

And if that is truly broken, then there is a problem with powering up Mystic bolts. You can design a class to be pure, but players will mix and match once it's out there.

So any power ups need to require more vigilante levels, not early powerups.

[Thrawn007]

Just doing some quick stuff...

Warlock4/Inquisitor 5

Bane would function 5 rounds per day
Bane affects 1 weapon, so offhand attacks would not be bane

So a hasted, rapid shot, ITWF character would get 4 bane shots (+6/+6/+6/+1) and 2 non-bane shot (+6/+1).

Assuming PBS, precise shot, rapid shot, TWF, ITWF as feats.
Assuming 22 DEX
Assuming destruction judgement for easy math

+6 to hit for Dex
+2 to hit from bane
-2 for TWF
-2 for rapid shot

3 Bane shots at +10 AB for 1d6+3 elemental dmg +2d6+2 bane dmg
1 Bane shot at +5 AB for 1d6+3 elemental dmg +2d6+2 bane dmg
1 Normal shot at +10 AB for 1d6+3 elemental dmg
1 Normal shot at +5 AB for 1d6+3 elemental dmg

Assuming you can hit all of your +10 shots, and miss your +5 shots
You would do a total of 4d6+12 (avg 26) elemental damage (applying resistance 4 times) and 6d6+6 (avg 27) bane damage

So is an average turn of 53 damage, that I can pull off 5 times a day at level 9 problematic?

[SCPRedMage]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I don't think you can apply the inquisitor's bane ability to a mystic bolt at all...

Mystic Bolt wrote:

Because mystic bolts are impermanent, a spell that targets a single weapon (like magic weapon) can’t affect it, nor can a mystic bolt be made with magic weapon special abilities.

Bane wrote:

At 5th level, an inquisitor can imbue one of her weapons with the bane weapon special ability as a swift action.

[Zwordsman]

I think it might work.
Inquistor is plural, weapons.
so it might be like Arcane Strike
"imbue your weapons with a fraction of your power"

Things that don't target single weapons seem to work.

As the bane isn't a weapon effect. it's an effect of you wielding a weapon..

So there is some possibility but not clear

[PIXIE DUST]

NOR CAN A MYSTIC BOLT NE MADE WITH SPECIAL WEAPON PROPERTIES

Bane is a special weapon property.

Not happening...

The best you can maybe hope for is a Skald or Bard giving you buffs via perform (skald mix woth spirit totem wpuld hve interesting maybe)

[Dekalinder]

Make it a physical(bludgeoning) weapon(ray). Each new bolt is a new weapon instance (so you avoid abuse with bane and similia). Give a +1 ench every missed BAB (1,5,9,13,17) ala arcane pool/judgment/old flurry. Done, fixed.

This way you have this cool niche of being low (no static stats) but higly reliable damage thanks to ranged (not having to move) non missile (so winds does not work) touch attack with early magic enchant usefull against those early gricks and the likes.

If you want to build on it, make new talents for elemental damage with riding effect. Small, non stackable ones, with no ST. No one wants a new weird word nightmare where you have to roll 8 ST per round.

[M1k31]

Does anyone else think it would also be better if there was some kind of range increment increase as you level?

[Endoralis]

PIXIE DUST wrote:

NOR CAN A MYSTIC BOLT NE MADE WITH SPECIAL WEAPON PROPERTIES

Bane is a special weapon property.

Not happening...

The best you can maybe hope for is a Skald or Bard giving you buffs via perform (skald mix woth spirit totem wpuld hve interesting maybe)

See the issue there is that it doesnt apply to effects on the Mystic Bolt. They are saying you cannot enchant it with spells and it cant be enhanced like a weapon with money. Whatever you apply to it MUST be something that applies regardless of if it were a Mystic Bolt or not.

If what you said was true.. Arcane Striker wouldnt work.. because GUESS WHAT THAT DOES?

[graystone]

Endoralis wrote:

PIXIE DUST wrote:

NOR CAN A MYSTIC BOLT NE MADE WITH SPECIAL WEAPON PROPERTIES

Bane is a special weapon property.

Not happening...

The best you can maybe hope for is a Skald or Bard giving you buffs via perform (skald mix woth spirit totem wpuld hve interesting maybe)

See the issue there is that it doesnt apply to effects on the Mystic Bolt. They are saying you cannot enchant it with spells and it cant be enhanced like a weapon with money. Whatever you apply to it MUST be something that applies regardless of if it were a Mystic Bolt or not.

If what you said was true.. Arcane Striker wouldnt work.. because GUESS WHAT THAT DOES?

There are multiple parts to Arcane Striker. it could be the Arcane Strike part works but the Weapon propeties doesn't. The rules seems to contradict themselves so that needs fixed if all of arcane strikes actually is meant to work on the bolts.

[Thrawn007]

Alright, with bane out, what is the abuse that Inquisitor would use?

So far sneak attack is the best use of bolts I see.

[Trekkie90909]

Warlock/Slayer PrC to Arcane Trickster? Warlock/Unchained Ninja? Smite/Challenge? Gunslingers do it better.

Unfortunately the Warlock's lack of good scaling options other than Tattoo Chamber (casting/bolts in particular) threatens to make multi-classing a must.

[Zwordsman]

Tattoo chamber is damn amazing though...
but man the rest just takes so much for so little oomph that not a lot of options in a battle..

Baring having staves or wands.. sorta wish they could use spell levels to replace used charges in wands and staves.

[Trekkie90909]

Tattoo Chamber is Amazing. I'd make it the Specialization's base ability tbh. It's good enough to have the entire class themed around it.

[Zwordsman]

That would a pretty good base Specialization.
It saved me just so much action economy of inventory searches. I had healing wand and staff at the ready. I should have paid for a burning hands or fire ball wand of higher level just for some sort of aoe on hand too.

It would allow them to make more varied branches, such as a mystic bolt path, or caster path. Since as it stands anyone building pure mystic bolt feels like those first spells are weird.
Not.. that you can really make a pure mystic build for now. but I have seen people mentioning it of course.

Granted I'd also love an item user line of some kind. It would be fun to have like that once a day sonic horn in the tattoo.

[SCPRedMage]

The problem is that the Bane class feature adds the bane weapon property to a specific weapon. As the description of Mystic Bolt states, it is impermanent, meaning it only exists in the exact moment you're using it. Even if you were to argue that using Bane is a swift action, and you can use swift actions whenever you could use a free action, and you can use free actions in the middle of other actions, thus enabling you to use Bane while you Mystic Bolt exists, it would only apply to that Mystic Bolt. Other Mystic Bolts fired that round, even with the same hand, are considered different weapons than the first, and therefore are not enhanced by Bane.

This is why Mystic Bolt outright states:

Mystic Bolt wrote:

Because mystic bolts are impermanent, a spell that targets a single weapon (like magic weapon) can’t affect it, nor can a mystic bolt be made with magic weapon special abilities. Abilities that affect all weapon attacks, such as the arcane striker warlock vigilante talent, function with mystic bolts.

So unless it applies to ALL weapons you use, it doesn't apply to Mystic Bolt. Since the Arcane Striker ability applies the weapon special abilities to all of the warlocks weapons, it certainly does apply to Mystic Bolt. Since Bane only applies to a specific weapon, it does not.

[Trekkie90909]

Someone else mentioned Hammer the Gap in a different thread; figured we could consolidate it here and see if someone can break the game now.