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Hey so I'm curious about something in the divine powers of the zealot. All but the Abyssal get their thing 3+charisma times a day, while the abyssal is 3+1/2 level. Was it intended to be different or was it not updated to use charisma?
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Also was his smite intended to not have the Charisma as Deflection to AC like the other smites have?
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I know this is a bit of a longshot, but I always hoped we'd use the word Zealot for a divine barbarian, similar to a bloodrager but with a divine focus.
What I'm saying is, I want to see an ability called Righteous Fury or the like, where the Zealot gets rage rounds, and access to some rage talents.
I know this is a bit of a longshot, but I always hoped we'd use the word Zealot for a divine barbarian, similar to a bloodrager but with a divine focus.
What I'm saying is, I want to see an ability called Righteous Fury or the like, where the Zealot gets rage rounds, and access to some rage talents.
They already have smite, they aren't going to get both. Avenger is a more likely candidate for Rage.
Also, the Anger Inquisition is a thing.
I'm hoping Domains reappears when the book comes out. I was pleased with many of the changes to the zealot, now I have to try out some different talent and feat combinations
Zealot has actually moved forward to become perhaps my favorite vigilante type. I really like the image of a Celestial zealot wearing some kind of mask, with a big flowing white cloak or something, standing over the City, whispering, "Evil is afoot tonight."
The only thing that mars the image for me is no snowy owl as a familiar or animal companion.
I'm intrigued with the changes but would like domains back too.
Also, I'm still waiting for a clearer explanation of the Zealot/deity relationship. From the V2 text, it would appear that he needs to fit the deity's alignment requirements ONLY with his vigilante identity, am I right?
So right now, the Vanishing Step ability for Fey Zealots only works on move actions. Shouldn't it also work for withdraw actions, and maybe charges as well?
Also was his smite intended to not have the Charisma as Deflection to AC like the other smites have?Note that their smites bypass all DR regardless of alignment however.
Yes just like the smite of the warpriest or the paladin.
So, you could have a LG social identity, be a LN, and be an Infernal zealot. However, because of the way it is worded, you would be unable to use your Infernal power or anything keyed off of it in your social identity. It looks like you would still retain your spellcasting and unaligned powers.
That's actually not clear to me. It says the DR is ignored, regardless of target. But the ability states you can only smite a good (or evil) creature. So I don't think it is more widely applicable, since a neutral character is still in invalid target.
Actually I agree now that it's any target.
As a swift action, the zealot vigilante chooses one target
within sight to smite. If this target is of the proper alignment,
the zealot adds his Charisma bonus (if any) to his attack rolls
and adds her vigilante level to all damage rolls made against
the target of his smite. If the target of smite is an outsider
with an alignment subtype of the zealot vigilante’s smite,
a similarly-aligned dragon, or either an undead creature
(if the zealot vigilante’s smite is against evil creatures) or a
good-aligned cleric or paladin (if the zealot vigilante’s smite
is against good creatures), the bonus to damage on the first
successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per vigilante
level. Regardless of the target, smite attacks automatically
bypass any DR the creature might possess.
This is the first paragraph.
Zealot Smite (Su): Once per day, a zealot vigilante with this
talent may use this power to smite a foe. Zealot vigilantes
with the celestial or the fey divine power can smite evil
creatures, while those with the abyssal or infernal divine
power can smite good creatures.
That seems to qualify everything that comes after it. You cannot activate the ability without smiting a valid target.
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This is the first paragraph.
That seems to qualify everything that comes after it. You cannot activate the ability without smiting a valid target.
Zealot Smite (Su): Once per day, a zealot vigilante with this
talent may use this power to smite a foe. Zealot vigilantes
with the celestial or the fey divine power can smite evil
creatures, while those with the abyssal or infernal divine
power can smite good creatures.
That's not how smite works. You can activate a smite on anything. If it's not the proper alignment, then the effect is mostly wasted. It still bypasses DR regardless of alignment.
That's not how smite works. You can activate a smite on anything. If it's not the proper alignment, then the effect is mostly wasted. It still bypasses DR regardless of alignment.This is the first paragraph.
That seems to qualify everything that comes after it. You cannot activate the ability without smiting a valid target.
Zealot Smite (Su): Once per day, a zealot vigilante with this
talent may use this power to smite a foe. Zealot vigilantes
with the celestial or the fey divine power can smite evil
creatures, while those with the abyssal or infernal divine
power can smite good creatures.
To me, it looks like they can smite "a foe," and the next sentence specifies what foes can be smited. If they can smite any foe, what does
Zealot vigilantes
with the celestial or the fey divine power can smite evil
creatures, while those with the abyssal or infernal divine
power can smite good creatures.
mean? According to you, they can already smite those creatures... or any others.
That's not how smite works. You can activate a smite on anything. If it's not the proper alignment, then the effect is mostly wasted. It still bypasses DR regardless of alignment.This is the first paragraph.
That seems to qualify everything that comes after it. You cannot activate the ability without smiting a valid target.
Zealot Smite (Su): Once per day, a zealot vigilante with this
talent may use this power to smite a foe. Zealot vigilantes
with the celestial or the fey divine power can smite evil
creatures, while those with the abyssal or infernal divine
power can smite good creatures.
To me, it looks like they can smite "a foe," and the next sentence specifies what foes can be smited. If they can smite any foe, what does
mean? According to you, they can already smite those creatures... or any others.
Zealot vigilantes
with the celestial or the fey divine power can smite evil
creatures, while those with the abyssal or infernal divine
power can smite good creatures.
Good point, I go back to thinking that it's the same as the other smites, just missing the Deflections bonus.
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To me, it looks like they can smite "a foe," and the next sentence specifies what foes can be smited. If they can smite any foe, what does
mean? According to you, they can already smite those creatures... or any others.
Let's look at the ability in it's entirety:
(Su): Once per day, a zealot vigilante with this talent may use this power to smite a foe. Zealot vigilantes with the celestial or the fey divine power can smite evil creatures, while those with the abyssal or infernal divine power can smite good creatures
As a swift action, the zealot vigilante chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is of the proper alignment, the zealot adds his Charisma bonus (if any) to his attack rolls and adds her vigilante level to all damage rolls made against the target of his smite. If the target of smite is an outsider with an alignment subtype of the zealot vigilante’s smite, a similarly-aligned dragon, or either an undead creature (if the zealot vigilante’s smite is against evil creatures) or a good-aligned cleric or paladin (if the zealot vigilante’s smite is against good creatures), the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per vigilante level. Regardless of the target, smite attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.
At 4th level, and every three levels thereafter, a zealot vigilante can smite one additional time per day, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level.
What this means is that you gain smite evil or smite good based on your power source. You can activate this power against any creature. You have smite evil, If the target is evil, you add your CHA to hit and your level to damage and bypass all DR.
If the target is not evil, you do not add your CHA to hit and your level to damage, but you still bypass all the target's DR.
Why didn't you bold
Zealot vigilantes with the celestial or the fey divine power can smite evil creatures, while those with the abyssal or infernal divine power can smite good creatures
?
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Because this is how all smites work. A paladin has smite evil. If they smite a creature that is not evil, they only bypass dr. Likewise with the zealot. They gain smite evil or smite good, but to activate it they just designate a creature. If the creature is not the correct alignment then it bypasses dr.
If you couldn't smite a creature of the wrong alignment, then why would they waste the word count to explain what happens if you do so?
I personally find the smite really weird just from a fey zealot point of view... I mean, not many fey are good in alignment.
Regardless of the target, smite attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.
to me means it does not matter if the target is an evil dragon, or just a regular evil creature. Saying what creatures you can smite, if you can smite anyone, would be wasted word count.
Yeah.
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Here is my understanding. Because they changed the way that Talents work in the Zealots case by adding the Divine Harbors, some Talents either require you to have a certain Harbor to access a Talent option, or function differently based on which one you are.
In the case of Smite, it is literally two different abilities wrapped into one. It is both Smite Good (if you are Abyssal or Infernal) and Smite Evil (if you are Celestial or Fey).
When you activate the Smite, you pick a single target, and your first attack against it does ignore all DR, but also, if the target is Evil, adds your Cha to the Attack roll to hit and adds your Vigilante level to Damage, (or x2 vs some more specific targets).
It's unclear if the Smite is wasted on a miss, if it was intentional to overcome literally all DR, (or on any target), or just how long the "targeting aspect" is supposed to last. As a Swift Action to activate that's not a huge factor, but it sounds like in the boss fight you could target the boss at the start, wade through the minions and then as soon as you actually attack the boss you targeted, it kicks in, including ranged or even spell attacks.
The problem is that "Regardless of the target, Smite attacks. . ." could also be read as "even if the target is not an Evil Dragon, Outsider, or other special target, the Smite still bypasses any DR, if the target is Evil". It lacks the typical line about a Smite against an invalid target is wasted, which could be because they simply forgot, because it's actually two different Smite abilities rolled into one, or because it was intentional. No way to know.
Zealot Smite (Su):
--Once per day, a zealot vigilante with this talent may use this power to smite a foe. Zealot vigilantes with the celestial or the fey divine power can smite evil creatures, while those with the abyssal or infernal divine power can smite good creatures.
As a swift action, the zealot vigilante chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is of the proper alignment, the zealot adds his Charisma bonus (if any) to his attack rolls and adds her vigilante level to all damage rolls made against the target of his smite. If the target of smite is an outsider with an alignment subtype of the zealot vigilante’s smite, a similarly-aligned dragon, or either an undead creature (if the zealot vigilante’s smite is against evil creatures) or a good-aligned cleric or paladin (if the zealot vigilante’s smite is against good creatures), the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per vigilante level. Regardless of the target, smite attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.
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At 4th level, and every three levels thereafter, a zealot vigilante can smite one additional time per day, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level.
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It's actually kind of weird to me that all the zealot's power sources are planar powers, and not necessarily ones with defined alignments. Fey can be any alignment, Celestial covers all good outsiders.
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The 4 power sources might be a limited taste of what all the options will be.
Hopefully, since this class essentially has 4 "archetypes" already baked into it, it will have a larger than average page count.
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I suspected the same thing. My issue is just how poorly those 4 tastes actually are. Celestial, Infernal, and Abyssal come with flavor that has nothing at all to do with the otherwise pretty universal abilities they grant, basically requiring you to be evilish to get Enlarge Person to be somewhat close to a typical follower of Sarenrae, while the Fey one essentially blows everything else out of the water by actually giving a good spell list in addition to extra spells.
It's a huge backwards step.