Aberzombie's Comic Book Reminiscing


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Scarab Sages

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Wherein I discuss comic book related things…..

I’ve been a comic book collector for around 30 something years. It started with my maternal grandmother buying me an issue of Marvel’s G. I. Joe that caught my eye. Now I have 20+ long boxes worth – maybe a couple thousand? Some great stuff in there, including Crisis on Infinite Earths, a first printing of The Killing Joke, a good bit of autographed stuff, and so on…..

Not too long ago, I finally determined I’d get more serious about my storage, so I purchased a set of Comic Cubes. Each was two rows of drawers high by four drawers across, for a total of eight. In beginning to transfer my comics into the Cubes, I’ve been coming across older stories that I love. I thought it might be cool to share my thoughts on some of that stuff.

Be warned, there will be spoilers. Although, is it really a spoiler if the information is older than some of the posters hereabouts? Anyway, if you don’t like that, don’t read any further.

So, without further ado….

Scarab Sages

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Martian Manhunter 4-issue Miniseries (May to August 1988) – I had already decided that Martian Manhunter was one of my favorite comic book superheroes after reading the Justice League Annual #1 from 1987. Here was a character who was very much like Superman: immensely powerful, last survivor of his race, sworn to protect his adopted planet of Earth. There were differences, however. Martian Manhunter had grown to adulthood on his home world. He had married and had a child. And he had seen the death of his people first hand (something that would only come out during this miniseries and in later stories). J’onn had an almost zen-like quality about him, something I greatly admired.

So, the series was a direct follow-up to the aforementioned JLA Annual, in which Manhunter had saved the Earth by absorbing a sentient cell into his own body, thereby becoming a living prison. As the series opens, we see Manhunter seeking out his friend Batman for aid. He’s feverish and possibly delusional. His shape-changing powers are out of control. He’s being pursued by….something.

Over the course of the series, we learn the truth. J’onn J’onzz was not a warrior on Mars. In fact his people were (by that time) not very warlike at all. They were dancers, philosophers, artists, learners. They were struck down by a plague, which J’onn survived by being pulled away from his world by the machinery of Dr. Saul Erdel. When Manhunter materialized on Earth, carrying the body of his dead daughter, Erdel helped him to cope. Using the telepathic link Manhunter established with him, Erdel filled his mind with pulp fiction memories. Erdel also implanted the thought of his own death, in order avoid any revisiting of the truth before J’onn had time to heal.

The being pursuing Manhunter is H’ronmeer, the ancient Martian god of Death. He wants to bring the truth back to J’onn. He wants to return him home, however briefly, so that J’onzz may come to terms with the past and move on. This would also allow the souls of the Martians to finally move on to their rest.

This series was important to me, because for the first time I saw that a comic book could well and truly be a work of serious literature. Even....poetic, in a way. The closing shots of Manhunter dancing in the desert were some of my favorites ever. It was, as well, deeply spiritual. A journey of truth and faith made manifest. And, it showed me that while we should remember the past, and past loved ones, we should never cling to tightly to them or their memories. Heady stuff for a 16 year old.

The art, as well, was something new to me. I had never seen Mark Badger’s work before, and I was impressed. It wasn’t your usual comic book art. It was bold, angular, very dynamic, but flowing as well. I loved it.

All in all, this series cemented Martian Manhunter as firmly in my top five of favorite superheroes.


Comics. God I remember them so well (even if my particulars are kind of off).

Kamandi. I didn't know what acid was when I was a kid, but my adult opinion is Jack Kirby's body produced natural acid.

Or the Fantastic Four when they were fantastic. Weird Kirby machines and weird Kirby dots. Tooling around the Negative Zone, with things like Annihilus lurking.

Or the Hulk taking on a heavy hitter every month. Absorbing Man, Abomination, The Leader, Rhino, Juggernaut. Or the Hulk walking through a man's brain (Glenn Talbot), on the start of his journey into the Microverse and the encounter with his one true love (for many years), Jarella.

JSA/JLA crossovers.

The Legion of Superheroes (it started getting really good just a bit before Cockrum, and he put it over the top).

Wolfman Teen Titans.

Always loved the Defenders and their cast. Nighthawk, Hellcat, and Valkyrie will always be the core members to me.

I still get a chuckle years later thinking about Moon Knight escaping a death trap in the Defenders. This was just a little after his appearance in Werewolf By Knight, when the popularity of the character made him useful to put in other titles, and he had no "mythos."

Nick Fury's little brother was a petty criminal who got hooked up with the Zodiac Gang, and he ... long story, won't go into it here.

But he had Moon Knight trapped in a pit, one that was going to fill up with water and stay that way long enough for anyone to drown. Because he was a villain, but not a jerk, Scorpio (Fury's brother) threw him a beer before sealing the lid on the trap.

Last we see of Moon Knight, he is leaning against a wall, popping the tab on a cold one.

Next day Scorpio checks on the trap; nothing in it but a puddle and a beer can.

Scarab Sages

Another Manhunter, but only because this was the very next comic I came across in my reorganizing. Although I would have gotten to it eventually......

Scarab Sages

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Manhunter (Detective Comics Backup Story) – Back in 1973 the legends Archie Goodwin and Walt Simonson started this story as a backup feature. I was only a toddler at the time, so did not collect comics yet. The entire series was later (early 80s) reprinted as a single book, which is where I discovered it sitting on display at BSI Comics in Metaire, LA (a place where I would spend many happy days).

This was an incredible story. The character, Paul Kirk, started out pre-WWII as a big game hunter turned costumed adventurer known as Manhunter. After WWII he apparently died, only to be reawakened years later by a cabal of scientists – The Council – who had used their incredible intellects and advanced science to not only resurrect Kirk, but to also supply him with a healing ability. At the same time, however, The Council cloned him over and over again, creating an army of duplicates for him to lead in The Council’s stated goal of “saving mankind from itself”. Needless to say, The Council was now corrupt and actually bent on world domination. Kirk broke with them, reclaiming his Manhunter identity and setting out to destroy the Council and end their evil machinations. Hilarity ensues.

The story had a great, pulpy feel to me. Kind of like Indiana Jones, but with Batman. It was old school adventure and intrigue, wrapped in a big, comic book bow. The settings were international – Nepal, Marrakesh, Australia, the Middle East, South America. There was even a visit to Gotham City. Interpol was involved – my introduction to that organization. The story was compelling – ones man’s fight to save the world and reclaim his own dignity, his companions and allies drawn into his cause by their own needs for revenge, redemption, and justice.

The writing was amazing. Each chapter had a short, opening paragraph to set the pace and the place – Letting you know what was going on and giving a hint of the mayhem to come. The location descriptions and set-up dialogue once again left me with that pulp adventure impression, with that flare for awesomeness that made Archie Goodwin into one of the truly greats. The art was dynamic. It wasn’t quite the style Simonson would develop later – that signature art so prevalent in Thor, New Gods, and other titles – but the beginnings of it were there. This was gritty art. It was rough, and violent, and action packed. Each page was a visual feast.

The story won numerous awards, and set these two artists on the course to greatness in the comic book industry. Years later, before Goodwin’s death, they began work on a short follow-up. When Archie passed, Walt completed the story as a “silent issue” –art, but no words. It was a fitting tribute to his friend and collaborator. DC later added that to the rest of the story in a special addition.

If anyone loves comics, adventure, conspiracy, ninjas, and Batman, then I highly recommend going out and finding a copy of this magnificent tale.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

I remember that series, it was a great team in Goodwin and Simonson (in his pre-Thor years). That probably remains one of my favorite versions of the Manhunter character.

Scarab Sages

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The Sandman

That epic series by Neil Gaiman! So much awesome, I doubt I can do it justice. It was my introduction to Gaiman, and to the idea that comics could be just downright weird. Gaiman has a true gift for weaving myth, legend, and religion into a compelling story.

My only regret was that I stopped collecting the series at issue 51. I must have been overcome with some form of insanity. In bagging and boarding my Sandman issues yesterday, I began to consider completing my collection by seeking out the issues I'm missing.


Aberzombie wrote:

The Sandman

That epic series by Neil Gaiman! So much awesome, I doubt I can do it justice. It was my introduction to Gaiman, and to the idea that comics could be just downright weird. Gaiman has a true gift for weaving myth, legend, and religion into a compelling story.

My only regret was that I stopped collecting the series at issue 51. I must have been overcome with some form of insanity. In bagging and boarding my Sandman issues yesterday, I began to consider completing my collection by seeking out the issues I'm missing.

Incidentally Sandman was my first and only contact with Martian Manhunter (who gets a cameo early on when recently freed Morpheus visits him and J'onn sees Morpheus in his Martian God Of Dreams form).

Scarab Sages

You poor bastard! Martian Manhunter was way to awesome a character for just that one exposure. If you can ever get the 4-issue limited series from back in the day, I highly recommend it. The regular series by Ostrander and Mandrake was pretty bad-ass as well.

Scarab Sages

Also, between my post from earlier this morning and now, I have been to the comic book store and started filling in that gap.


Drejk wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:

The Sandman

That epic series by Neil Gaiman! So much awesome, I doubt I can do it justice. It was my introduction to Gaiman, and to the idea that comics could be just downright weird. Gaiman has a true gift for weaving myth, legend, and religion into a compelling story.

My only regret was that I stopped collecting the series at issue 51. I must have been overcome with some form of insanity. In bagging and boarding my Sandman issues yesterday, I began to consider completing my collection by seeking out the issues I'm missing.

Incidentally Sandman was my first and only contact with Martian Manhunter (who gets a cameo early on when recently freed Morpheus visits him and J'onn sees Morpheus in his Martian God Of Dreams form).

One of the many great things about Sandman was how easily it worked in DC heroes and characters who just shouldn't have fit at all.

Scarab Sages

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The Weird (1988 Mini-Series)

A creation of the awesome talents of Jim Starlin and Bernie Wrightson, this four-issue mini-series starred the title character, as well as the Justice League, Superman, and a few others (Nuklon as I recall). The Weird was an energy being from an alternate dimension who, along with his fellow Zarolatts, was enslaved by the malevolent Macrolatts. Taking advantage of the Macrolatt attempt to invade our dimension, he eascapes to earth, merges with and reanimates a dead human body, and tries to stop the Macrolatt’s ally from helping them invade. Along the way he gets involved with Earth’s heroes. Hilarity ensues.

The series was a quirky, well-written adventure yarn - a classic comic book trope (good alternate dimension alien trying to stop bad ones), given a bit of new life by the humanization of the title character alien. In merging with a human body, he gains that body’s memories (albeit fragmented) of family and love, dealing with those issues (and the loss thereof) along the way.

In the end, a sacrifice is made and the story was ended. Or so everyone thought.

Nearly 20 years later, in what became several interlocking mini-series adventures*, Starlin revisited the character by resurrecting him deep in space and allying him with several other space heroes. But that’s a reminisce for another time....

*Note - It was the finding of these series which kick started this bit of memory lane walking. I have yet to come across my copies of The Weird mini-series (a fact which is slowly driving me mad(er), and will continue to do so until I find it and read it).

Scarab Sages

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Gothic: A Romance (Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #’s 6-10, April to August 1990)

Just six months earlier, DC had launched a brand new solo Batman series – the first since 1940. Every couple of issues would feature a new creative team and a new story arc. And while the first story arc, Shaman, was pretty damned cool, the next one would blow my mind. Gothic was the first time I had heard of the name Grant Morrison. And while I’ve come to have mixed feelings about his work over the years, this first experience with his writing has ensured that I will forever consider him one of the better writers to exist.

While it was subtitled “A Romance”, Gothic was far more than that. Written by Morrison and drawn by the magnificent Klaus Janson, this is a story of revenge, memory, supernatural horror, ghosts, and immutable fate. Led by his dreams (and an inverted Bat signal), Batman is drawn into a conspiracy to save crime lords from an old enemy long thought vanquished – a man with no shadow, and with a connection to Bruce Wayne’s past – Mr. Whisper. Over the course of the series, Batman learns that some legends may indeed hold a kernel (or more of truth), while battling to save Gotham from a terrible plan centuries in the making.

The story is poetic, action packed, and even allows for Batman to show off his not inconsiderable detective skills. There is an eerie inevitability about the main antagonist, Mr. Whisper. He is terrifying, yet terrified. Violent, yet extraordinarily refined. In essence, he is one of the most fascinating opponents I’ve ever witnessed Batman facing.

Janson’s artwork is incredible. Dynamic when it needs to be, subdued and spectral at other times, it truly conveys (to me at least) a sense of the gothic. There is one full page shot, closing out the end of issue 6 (part 1), which is one of the most quintessential Batman images. Throughout the entire story, his art never fails to impress.

I’ve been purposefully vague on plot details on this one. I hope people will go out of their way to try and find it and read it for themselves. It’s that f$%&ing awesome. GO! FIND IT! READ IT! You will not be disappointed.

Scarab Sages

Venom (Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #'s 16-20, March to July 1991)

Another classic Batman story (one with far-reaching consequences), from the early 90s and that most awesome of series, Venom was a tale of addiction and the will to overcome it, written by that legend of the Batverse, Denny O'Neil.

Batman fails to save a life. Taken advantage of by evil men with a Eugenics bent, this tragedy soon leads him into a deadly addiction, all in an attempt to make sure he does not allow himself to fail again. The Dark Knight falls, but rises again by his own sheer will and discipline.

The villains are vile men, but men nonetheless. One is a typical Hollywood/entertainment industry caricature of a military general - the kind of man willing to sacrifice anything to destroy the enemy and preserve what he perceives to be the American way of life. The other is the epitome of the intellectual, science-is-all eugenicist, convinced that nothing can overcome his own mental superiority.

In the end, of course, Batman wins. There is tragedy, and karmic justice.

Batman also succeeds, however, in sowing the seeds of his own future pain. This story leads directly to one of the most interesting periods in Batman's life, when a man known as Bane would come a-calling......

Scarab Sages

I miss the New Gods and really wish Byrne or Simonson would do a new series.


Hmmm, well, I visit the comics history via the Trade paperback route and omnibus route these days.

I like the X-men, but X-men really took off when they came out with the Giant Sized X-men. The ensuing issues over the next few years were awesomely spectacular.

One of the best moments I really like was when Arch Angel came to being...

And became one of my favorite X-men characters.

Also really enjoyed Batman. Unlike what many think, I think the Dark Knight Returns was decent, but I thought the Death of Jason Todd was FAR more impactual on my reading...they should have left him dead...

But DC never leaves anyone dead.

I also seem to love Spawn...a lot.


Aberzombie wrote:
I miss the New Gods and really wish ... Simonson would do a new series.

Simonson's Thor is the single best run on a comic I've ever read.


I really liked the morlocks mini series. I wish it was on comixology.

Scarab Sages

It's been awhile since I posted here (thanks PE Exam), so I'll keep this bit of reminiscing short and sweet (and fairly modern):

Robert E. Howard's Savage Sword - this series has been put out by Darkhorse for a couple of years now (since 2010, I think). Each issue is an 80-page collection of various REH stories and characters. Really good stuff. Lots of variety. Conan, Bran Mak Morn, Solomon Kane, Dark Agnes, Breckenridge Elkins, Kull, among others.

For the life of me, I cannot recall when was the last one I got, or whether they're still being put out. There were only like 2 per year, and I don't recall any set schedule. I think they're up to #10, from earlier this year.

I'd recommend this for anyone who's a fan of REH.

Scarab Sages

Crisis on Infinite Earths - still one of the greatest comic book stories ever written. Epic, universe changing (and consolidating), visual poetry. It was f~+!ing beautiful.

Marv Wolfman and George Pérez showed themselves to be the master storytellers they are.

We were given the deaths of Supergirl and the Barry Allen (along with so many others). There was the birth of the heroic Dr. Light. We were introduced to Lady Quark.

The Antimonitor was, in my own opinion, one of the greatest villains ever to grace a comic book page. Although, to tell the truth, I did love his original appearance more than his second (after Supergirl f&!#ed him up).

The version of Brainiac seen in this series has always been one of my favorites.

I also loved Psycho Pirate.

I wasn't collecting when it first came out. When I finally did start collecting in earnest, the old dude who ran my comic book store (Good, old Mr. Carl, God rest his soul) shoved all twelve issues into my hand one day. I have since been successful in getting issue #1 autographed by Wolfman himself.


Aberzombie wrote:

Crisis on Infinite Earths - still one of the greatest comic book stories ever written. Epic, universe changing (and consolidating), visual poetry. It was f!+&ing beautiful.

Marv Wolfman and George Pérez showed themselves to be the master storytellers they are.

We were given the deaths of Supergirl and the Barry Allen (along with so many others). There was the birth of the heroic Dr. Light. We were introduced to Lady Quark.

The Antimonitor was, in my own opinion, one of the greatest villains ever to grace a comic book page. Although, to tell the truth, I did love his original appearance more than his second (after Supergirl f###ed him up).

The version of Brainiac seen in this series has always been one of my favorites.

I also loved Psycho Pirate.

I wasn't collecting when it first came out. When I finally did start collecting in earnest, the old dude who ran my comic book store (Good, old Mr. Carl, God rest his soul) shoved all twelve issues into my hand one day. I have since been successful in getting issue #1 autographed by Wolfman himself.

I have a love-hate relationship with Crisis. It is, as you say, really good. I'm not sure about "one of the greatest", but definitely the best of the massive crossover stories.

It came out right as I was starting to read & collect comics seriously and was a large part of my introduction to DC. It served as a great introduction, especially to the multiverse and the other oddities of DC.
Which it then promptly destroyed, leaving gaping holes in several series that had become favorites. The LSH was left trying to recover from the retroactive loss of Superboy. Infinity, Inc, by the loss of Earth-2 and the original JSA. Even the Titans staggered afterwards, partly due to Wonder Girl being uprooted, but more I think due to Wolfman being drained by working on Crisis.

But the story itself was great.


Aberzombie wrote:

Crisis on Infinite Earths - still one of the greatest comic book stories ever written. Epic, universe changing (and consolidating), visual poetry. It was f@*@ing beautiful.

Marv Wolfman and George Pérez showed themselves to be the master storytellers they are.

We were given the deaths of Supergirl and the Barry Allen (along with so many others). There was the birth of the heroic Dr. Light. We were introduced to Lady Quark.

The Antimonitor was, in my own opinion, one of the greatest villains ever to grace a comic book page. Although, to tell the truth, I did love his original appearance more than his second (after Supergirl f++@ed him up).

The version of Brainiac seen in this series has always been one of my favorites.

I also loved Psycho Pirate.

I wasn't collecting when it first came out. When I finally did start collecting in earnest, the old dude who ran my comic book store (Good, old Mr. Carl, God rest his soul) shoved all twelve issues into my hand one day. I have since been successful in getting issue #1 autographed by Wolfman himself.

amazing heroes number 15 I believe was the first magazine I read about comic books. It went into the deaths from crisis on infinite earths and I knew right then that this was an amazing series.

Psycho pirate still gives me chills, although I didn't get why people were so upset about supergirl dying at the time. Moreover I never bought into the whole "other dimension of peace" the others went to, I knew they would be back - and I was right!


Aberzombie wrote:
I miss the New Gods and really wish Byrne or Simonson would do a new series.

I guess it is way late, but I just noticed this thread again.

Kind of surprised because when I read this, I realize I miss John Byrne.

DC in particular is a storytelling mess these days, and Byrne could tell a story.

Have to say though, his art does not grab you decades later like Kirby's and some others do.

DC is messed up right now though. I know Byrne spent a good while at Marvel, but his DC work is what I think of first, and they could sure use... somebody.


*shrug* DC kinda sold out a long while back and people are just noticing now.

Me, I love We Are Robin myself, though I'm not picking up Robin war really..don't have that kind of cash.


Aberzombie wrote:
Crisis on Infinite Earths - still one of the greatest comic book stories ever written. Epic, universe changing (and consolidating), visual poetry. It was f$%*ing beautiful.

Ehhhh... I enjoyed it for what it was. This grand universe changing reboot. I loved how Perez was able to cram so many people into his panels... but that was also a downfall for me.

There were SOOOOOOO many characters in that book and probably 90% of them I had no idea who they were... and didn't care that they died. Earth one I liked... Earth 2 I liked... some of the Freedom fighters from Earth X I think were cool.... but Earth 4, 5, 6, etc?? Didn't know, didn't care. Even the Green Lantern they used wasn't the 'real' Green Lantern... Though Hal was having one of his greatest stories in the GL tie-ins...

Compared to Marvel's Secret Wars which had a massive hero crossover... Spidey, Avengers, FF, X-men and nobody lower then B-list??

That was my all time favorite crossover.

Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere

Aberzombie wrote:

Crisis on Infinite Earths - still one of the greatest comic book stories ever written. Epic, universe changing (and consolidating), visual poetry. It was f$@*ing beautiful.

Marv Wolfman and George Pérez showed themselves to be the master storytellers they are.

I really liked it as well. Bit confusing, but it's still great at the end. Artwork especially is brilliant. But it's Wolfman/Perez combo. New Teen Titans too was a proof of their mettle. Oh, Perez. How I love thee.

Though I too have to say that the "ye olde" Secret Wars is my favorite crisis of all time. I have only fond memories of it.

I was just rummaging trough my comics, and I remembered what was my first superhero comic book ever. Infinity War trade paperback, Finnish version. No wonder I love Jim Starlin.

Scarab Sages

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Freehold DM wrote:
I love We Are Robin myself.....

I see letters, and they appear to form words, but the words make no sense. The Batbooks went to s%*+ long ago - Grant Morrison saw to that.

Scarab Sages

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sunbeam wrote:

I guess it is way late, but I just noticed this thread again.

Kind of surprised because when I read this, I realize I miss John Byrne.

DC in particular is a storytelling mess these days, and Byrne could tell a story.

Have to say though, his art does not grab you decades later like Kirby's and some others do.

DC is messed up right now though. I know Byrne spent a good while at Marvel, but his DC work is what I think of first, and they could sure use... somebody.

Byrne is a legend, and rightly so. The dude is, indeed, a fantastic storyteller.

I'd have to say, however, DC isn't the only one who's universe is messed up. Marvel's pretty messed up as well, from what I see.

Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere

Aberzombie wrote:


The Batbooks went to s+#@ long ago - Grant Morrison saw to that.

That's actually funny: Morrison is my favorite Batman-writer. Arkham Asylum- Serious House on a Serious Earth is my all-time favorite comic book. Batman & Robin stuff was fine, and I was not a great fan of Batman R.I.P but it had good parts and nice weirdness around it.

Arkham Asylum is so frigging good. Dave McKeans art is superb, the symbolism and references are top notch and- well, I just love it.

I would not say that. Snyder's Batman is really good, especially Court of Owls and Zero Year. Did not like Death of the Family. But yeah, aside from Snyder I think new 52 Batman has missed it's mark. I hate Batman: the Dark Knight books. Mad Hatter as a mass murderer? Ugh.


Rosgakori wrote:
Mad Hatter as a mass murderer? Ugh.

Thing is that can work. Gail Simone is a quirky writer, as in she can produce first rate work on some kinds of books, and fall flat on her face in other kinds.

I mean imagine Gail Simone writing Green Lantern for example. And she may be a big Wonder Woman fan, but she just isn't the writer for that character. (Though I think her writing something like the Demon would be interesting.)

But the point is she wrote a totally lunatic version of Mad Hatter in Secret Six, and it worked. Actually he was a little more... twisted than than something so mundane as a serial killer.

As for the rest of what you wrote... I've read a lot of Grant Morrison's stuff. He does well on some things. For example he excels at telling sentimental stories (Flex Mentallo, We 3, etc). Occasionally he can even pull off the crazy crap he indulges in (Animal Man, Doom Patrol), though it doesn't even make sense then. The ride is worth going along with it all.

But he usually falls flat on his face, see The Invisibles (dreck), and his ... unfortunate spin at a DC crisis.

But in the end he is Lucifer staring up into the heavens gazing upon God (that would be Alan Moore), and saying "I could so kick his ass."


Rosgakori wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:


The Batbooks went to s+#@ long ago - Grant Morrison saw to that.

That's actually funny: Morrison is my favorite Batman-writer. Arkham Asylum- Serious House on a Serious Earth is my all-time favorite comic book. Batman & Robin stuff was fine, and I was not a great fan of Batman R.I.P but it had good parts and nice weirdness around it.

Arkham Asylum is so frigging good. Dave McKeans art is superb, the symbolism and references are top notch and- well, I just love it.

I would not say that. Snyder's Batman is really good, especially Court of Owls and Zero Year. Did not like Death of the Family. But yeah, aside from Snyder I think new 52 Batman has missed it's mark. I hate Batman: the Dark Knight books. Mad Hatter as a mass murderer? Ugh.

so he's okay as a pedophile? I'll take mass murderer over that any time.


Aberzombie wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
I love We Are Robin myself.....
I see letters, and they appear to form words, but the words make no sense. The Batbooks went to s!&~ long ago - Grant Morrison saw to that.

you're missing out.

Love we are robin. It's like attack the block with less accents.

Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere

sunbeam wrote:
But the point is she wrote a totally lunatic version of Mad Hatter in Secret Six, and it worked. Actually he was a little more... twisted than than something so mundane as a serial killer.
Freehold DM wrote:
so he's okay as a pedophile? I'll take mass murderer over that any time.

Oh, no. I did not say that. I prefer the Gail Simone's version, and one from Joker's asylum and one from animated series. I'm not against depicting him as serial killer, on the contrary. But he is more like a stalker. In New 52 he kills people so much that bodies almost cover the Gotham river. That was just unnecessary over the top. Gail wrote him the best in Suicide Squad, and Paul Dini also did some cool stuff with him.

I said I like Arkham Asylum, not the Mad Hatter from that story.


sunbeam wrote:
Rosgakori wrote:
Mad Hatter as a mass murderer? Ugh.

Thing is that can work. Gail Simone is a quirky writer, as in she can produce first rate work on some kinds of books, and fall flat on her face in other kinds.

I mean imagine Gail Simone writing Green Lantern for example. And she may be a big Wonder Woman fan, but she just isn't the writer for that character. (Though I think her writing something like the Demon would be interesting.)

But the point is she wrote a totally lunatic version of Mad Hatter in Secret Six, and it worked. Actually he was a little more... twisted than than something so mundane as a serial killer.

As for the rest of what you wrote... I've read a lot of Grant Morrison's stuff. He does well on some things. For example he excels at telling sentimental stories (Flex Mentallo, We 3, etc). Occasionally he can even pull off the crazy crap he indulges in (Animal Man, Doom Patrol), though it doesn't even make sense then. The ride is worth going along with it all.

But he usually falls flat on his face, see The Invisibles (dreck), and his ... unfortunate spin at a DC crisis.

But in the end he is Lucifer staring up into the heavens gazing upon God (that would be Alan Moore), and saying "I could so kick his ass."

Or, like most art, it's a matter of taste.

The Invisibles (despite some acknowledged falling apart at the end) is one of my all time favorites.
And his try at a DC crisis is probably second only to the original in my view.
I loved his Batman run. Haven't read much since then, so I don't know where it went afterwards.

But I freely acknowledge he's not to everyone's taste.

Dark Archive

thejeff wrote:
Which it then promptly destroyed, leaving gaping holes in several series that had become favorites. The LSH was left trying to recover from the retroactive loss of Superboy. Infinity, Inc, by the loss of Earth-2 and the original JSA. Even the Titans staggered afterwards, partly due to Wonder Girl being uprooted, but more I think due to Wolfman being drained by working on Crisis.

Pretty much this, for me. It was pretty heady stuff, but the delivery had some rough spots, like the super-heroes of a half-dozen other earths (like the worlds that the Shazam family came from, and the world the Freedom Fighters came from, and the world the Charlton heroes came from, and Earth 2) managed to skate free of the destruction of their worlds, and pretty much left everyone else to die.

The only group of supers to 'go down fighting' for their universes was the darned *Crime Syndicate.* That bugged me.

I don't blame the fictional characters for that, since it was a corporate decision to get rid of all those other earths, and yet keep (most of) the characters, but it's not like that sort of thing makes it easy to look at any of those characters as 'heroes.'

Plus they killed Kole. Those bastards! :)

Losing the Legion was a blow, since that was my favorite book, and to have so many characters either sidelined or forgotten entirely after the Crisis, which introduced such *amazing* fun new characters as Pariah and Harbinger (sarcasm detected), never to be seen again.

Then again, Pariah never being seen again makes sense, since he's the last survivor of a universe that never existed, and if it never existed, then he never existed, and since he created the Anti-Monitor, that means the Anti-Monitor never existed, and my head just exploded...

At the time it seemed all bold and stuff (and I did particularly like the use of the Psycho-Pirate, and the gravitas of the death of Supergirl (retconned twice in the next ten years with various Supergirl series) and the Flash (25 years it took, but Barry's back. Ugh.), but I *liked* Earth 2, in particular, and the whole concept of a 'multiverse,' so I was never the target audience for a new streamlined DCU for the casual fans who 'got confused' or 'couldn't keep up' or whatever.

It took them a long time to undo all of that, but pretty much everyone is back (even Barry!), and there's a multiverse again.

Just no Kole. Grr!


Actually both Pariah and Harbinger stuck around afterwards and were seen occasionally.


I liked ladyquark.

Scarab Sages

Rosgakori wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:


The Batbooks went to s+#@ long ago - Grant Morrison saw to that.

That's actually funny: Morrison is my favorite Batman-writer. Arkham Asylum- Serious House on a Serious Earth is my all-time favorite comic book. Batman & Robin stuff was fine, and I was not a great fan of Batman R.I.P but it had good parts and nice weirdness around it.

Arkham Asylum is so frigging good. Dave McKeans art is superb, the symbolism and references are top notch and- well, I just love it.

I would not say that. Snyder's Batman is really good, especially Court of Owls and Zero Year. Did not like Death of the Family. But yeah, aside from Snyder I think new 52 Batman has missed it's mark. I hate Batman: the Dark Knight books. Mad Hatter as a mass murderer? Ugh.

I actually have a love/hate relationship with Morrison. I agree that his Arkham Asylum book was awesome, as were his efforts on Doom Patrol and Justice League. But I disliked Batman R.I.P., absolutely despise Damian Wayne, and thought Final Crisis was complete s&#% & an insult to the comic book industry. That stuff, along with the casting off of Wally West and stupid s~%! they did with the Green Lanterns, were what made me cut back on a lot of my DC books.

I absolutely love the original Dark Knight series Miller did. The second one was OK. The new third series has been....interesting....so far.

Scarab Sages

Freehold DM wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
I love We Are Robin myself.....
I see letters, and they appear to form words, but the words make no sense. The Batbooks went to s!&~ long ago - Grant Morrison saw to that.

you're missing out.

Love we are robin. It's like attack the block with less accents.

What's attack the block?

Scarab Sages

Freehold DM wrote:
I liked ladyquark.

She was vastly under used after Crisis.

Scarab Sages

One thing I should reminisce over....

....Maybe it's just me, but it seems like modern comic book writers don't know how to tell a decent story in anything less than 6 to 8 issues. Now, as I understand, that's actually more of a corporate decision, multi-part stories being easier to repackage later on in trade paperbacks. Still, it leaves me wondering if some of these youngsters could even accomplish such a feat as a one-shot.

So, the reminisce I should probably be making is more along the lines of the industry mostly abandoning one-off, or even 2-3 part, stories.

One of the oldest issues of Batman I own (#318 from '79) is a self-contained story where he goes against Firebug.

More recently, the Fables series by Bill Willingham (whose work I also enjoyed on the old Comico Elementals series) had a lot of one-shots throughout it's 150 issue run.


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Related to that, is something that you used to see on occasion.

Let's say a series has a number of one, two, even three issue stories. But in the background, a panel or two here, one there, something is cooking behind the scenes.

The Great Darkness Saga had little things running in the background leading up to it.

The Korvac saga had a buildup going on for a couple of years before they really started the storyline.

I agree with your point, the ability of writers to write a one issue story is kind of lacking now (along with the short story becoming a lost art form).

But one of the unique things about comics is that they also on occasion develop things that can take years to come about.

Another example of that would be the Hobgoblin storyline in Spiderman, though the writer totally screwed that one up when he took over (think Peter David?). He made a plot recovery, but I remember reading an anecdote by him saying that he killed Ned Leeds before he got a chance to read through all the backstory that had been developing, then it was "Oh Crap, it had to be him."

And one of the hallmarks of the first DC crisis story was how it was integrated in continuity in the DC books leading up to it.

Something they have tried to imitate with the later ones to mixed success.


sunbeam wrote:

Related to that, is something that you used to see on occasion.

Let's say a series has a number of one, two, even three issue stories. But in the background, a panel or two here, one there, something is cooking behind the scenes.

The Great Darkness Saga had little things running in the background leading up to it.

The Korvac saga had a buildup going on for a couple of years before they really started the storyline.

I agree with your point, the ability of writers to write a one issue story is kind of lacking now (along with the short story becoming a lost art form).

But one of the unique things about comics is that they also on occasion develop things that can take years to come about.

Another example of that would be the Hobgoblin storyline in Spiderman, though the writer totally screwed that one up when he took over (think Peter David?). He made a plot recovery, but I remember reading an anecdote by him saying that he killed Ned Leeds before he got a chance to read through all the backstory that had been developing, then it was "Oh Crap, it had to be him."

IIRC, Hobgoblin's identity was a big secret, even among Marvel writers and editors. I'd heard something similar, though I'd thought Ned Leeds was killed off in a special by a writer & editor who weren't in on the secret. Poking around the net now though, it seems even worse. Ned seems to have been killed of as part of a feud among writers & editors even though the team doing the killing knew he was supposed to be the Hobgoblin.

Peter David came on the scene after the fact and was left to pick up the pieces.

More generally the problem with a lot of those stories that take years to develop is that they result in an awful lot of dangling plot threads that never get picked up. Most often when a series is cancelled or switches writers, but even with a single long-term writer it's easy to drop more hints than you pick up. Claremont was famous for that with the X-Men.

Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere

Aberzombie wrote:
absolutely despise Damian Wayne

I can only agree. Hate that little brat.


Rosgakori wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
absolutely despise Damian Wayne
I can only agree. Hate that little brat.

Annoying brat.

Great character. Really good story arc. Brought out all sorts of fun characterization from both Dick and Bruce. Others too occasionally. There was a fun issue with Stephanie.


Aberzombie wrote:
Rosgakori wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:


The Batbooks went to s+#@ long ago - Grant Morrison saw to that.

That's actually funny: Morrison is my favorite Batman-writer. Arkham Asylum- Serious House on a Serious Earth is my all-time favorite comic book. Batman & Robin stuff was fine, and I was not a great fan of Batman R.I.P but it had good parts and nice weirdness around it.

Arkham Asylum is so frigging good. Dave McKeans art is superb, the symbolism and references are top notch and- well, I just love it.

I would not say that. Snyder's Batman is really good, especially Court of Owls and Zero Year. Did not like Death of the Family. But yeah, aside from Snyder I think new 52 Batman has missed it's mark. I hate Batman: the Dark Knight books. Mad Hatter as a mass murderer? Ugh.

I actually have a love/hate relationship with Morrison. I agree that his Arkham Asylum book was awesome, as were his efforts on Doom Patrol and Justice League. But I disliked Batman R.I.P., absolutely despise Damian Wayne, and thought Final Crisis was complete s*~# & an insult to the comic book industry. That stuff, along with the casting off of Wally West and stupid s$$+ they did with the Green Lanterns, were what made me cut back on a lot of my DC books.

I absolutely love the original Dark Knight series Miller did. The second one was OK. The new third series has been....interesting....so far.

I thought final crisis was okay. I loved legion of three worlds.


thejeff wrote:
Rosgakori wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
absolutely despise Damian Wayne
I can only agree. Hate that little brat.

Annoying brat.

Great character. Really good story arc. Brought out all sorts of fun characterization from both Dick and Bruce. Others too occasionally. There was a fun issue with Stephanie.

same here.

Really hate the guy, though.


Aberzombie wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
I love We Are Robin myself.....
I see letters, and they appear to form words, but the words make no sense. The Batbooks went to s!&~ long ago - Grant Morrison saw to that.

you're missing out.

Love we are robin. It's like attack the block with less accents.

What's attack the block?

awesome movie. Very British.

Dark Archive

Aberzombie wrote:

One thing I should reminisce over....

....Maybe it's just me, but it seems like modern comic book writers don't know how to tell a decent story in anything less than 6 to 8 issues. Now, as I understand, that's actually more of a corporate decision, multi-part stories being easier to repackage later on in trade paperbacks. Still, it leaves me wondering if some of these youngsters could even accomplish such a feat as a one-shot.

I got into an argument over that during the last Legion run, when there was a six issue gap between two creative teams, and someone said 'It's only six issues, it'll just be filler, it's not like they can do anything.' and I was struck by how odd that sounded. The Great Darkness Saga was less than six issues. The Universo Project was four issues. The Eyes of Tara Markov was four issues. Jean Grey died (and everything changed!) in one issue.

Pretty much every 'big' storyline before Crisis on Infinite Earths and the Secret Wars was somewhere between one and four issues. (Granted, most of them had, in some cases, *years* of build-up leading to them, but that should be *expected,* and not some sort of mythical thing that only happened in the past and can never be replicated because The Magic Went Away.)

But, having read some issues where a bunch of people sit around a table and talk about what's going on (whether it be the Avengers arguing about how to deal with Wanda in Disassembled, or the Justice League founders arguing about who's good enough to be in the League), I guess I can see why it might be 'impossible' for some modern writers to make anything happen in 'only' six issues...

Quote:
More recently, the Fables series by Bill Willingham (whose work I also enjoyed on the old Comico Elementals series) had a lot of one-shots throughout it's 150 issue run.

Elementals rocked. Shapeshifter was mind-bendingly awesomely evil.

It was fun to see air and water manipulation on that scale (particularly water, from Fathom, as Vortex spent more time enjoying flying than manipulating wind and stuff). Fire throwing heroes (and villains) are a dime a dozen, but air and water (and earth) manipulators aren't quite so common.

Scarab Sages

Set wrote:


Elementals rocked. Shapeshifter was mind-bendingly awesomely evil.

It was fun to see air and water manipulation on that scale (particularly water, from Fathom, as Vortex...

Aw, come on! I already added you to the List of People Never to be Eaten During the Zombiepocalypse! What more do you want from me?!?

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