Opening up the talents to all will create the problem of having a guy with 6-level arcane and 4-level divine casting....
Opening up the talents to all will create the problem of having a guy with 6-level arcane and 4-level divine casting....
Well, maybe some limitations would need to be put in place...
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The other thing, though - the reason I came onto this thread - does anybody have an idea on how to make the cult leader thing work?
Using the rules that are there, I'm pretty sure that I have to use two talents just to allow for 3rd level spells - and to match the cleric who would be 5th or 6th, that's a definite requirement, bare minimum.
He'll be slightly better than the cleric at melee, with a few more HP (heck, the cleric's a dwarf) - so - how can I make this guy challenge the whole party? Has anybody noticed any talents that really work for it? Maybe in combination with a feat and/or spell?
I'm a big fan of Lovecraft, so the cult he's in charge of would be Lovecraftian flavored - weird/twisted with a bit of a horror spin. Heavy on the creepy.
Does your concept require spellcasting? And does it require the full complement of Zealot spellcasting?
If the spellcasting is a big part of your concept, then perhaps you need to rethink this as a different class, or even a multiclass character.
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Does your concept require spellcasting? And does it require the full complement of Zealot spellcasting?
If the spellcasting is a big part of your concept, then perhaps you need to rethink this as a different class, or even a multiclass character.
I'm starting to see Vigilante as a great dip class. A level or two of it and levels of cleric or inquisitor seem to handle the concept soooo much better than straight Vigilante. Heck, I'm really starting to think Vigilante might work best as a prestige class, or something like it.
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while I agree with many others that the persona switching mechanic needs work and some of the specialization talents need tweaking. the real problem is the social persona which need to have more flavor to give a player a reason to enter and use their social persona.
Say other bonuses or abilities that can aid the vigilante. Such as the Stalker's Case the Joint Talent should be available for the vigilante to use in their social persona, to give them a reason to use the social persona other than flavor and a few skill bonuses.
Plus making a list of General Vigilante talents that all specializations could take can event the playing field between different specializations.
while I agree with many others that the persona switching mechanic needs work and some of the specialization talents need tweaking. the real problem is the social persona which need to have more flavor to give a player a reason to enter and use their social persona.
Say other bonuses or abilities that can aid the vigilante. Such as the Stalker's Case the Joint Talent should be available for the vigilante to use in their social persona, to give them a reason to use the social persona other than flavor and a few skill bonuses.
Plus making a list of General Vigilante talents that all specializations could take can event the playing field between different specializations.
Those too.
Might also need some rules about which one is the "real persona" and which one is "the mask".
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A character with 3/4 BAB, d8 HD, 6 SP/lvl, 2 good saves, lesser 6 level arcane, and lesser 4 level divine casting is not overpowered in the least. You can make a character with 6 level arcane/divine and 9 level of the other one with on average d8 HD, 3/4 BAB, 6 SP/lvl, and 1 good save who also has class features easily with prestige classes. Making all the talents available to everyone would in no way be overpowered. I understand it seems like it could be, but comparatively it is not. I don't want to seem worked up, and I apologize if I did; I just get annoyed easily when people think an underpowered playtest class is overpowered... This class is not powerful enough as is or even without the limitations(with the rules from Ultimate Intrigue it could actually be overpowered, but without those rules it is objectively not very powerful.) I will mention that I also really like this class because with the Stalker type you can do the thing from the batman games where you swoop down and knock someone out then rope them up to higher things without being noticed, which is super awesome.
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Warning, if you are in my campaign(don't think anyone who is even goes to this site) don't look at the below as it is the basis of the build for the OP end enemy.
Druid(Reincarnated) 5
Sorcerer(Empyreal) 3
Mystic Theurge 1
Evangelist 10(Mystic Theurge as aligned class)
Druid(Reincarnated) 1
Feats
w/e just grab shaping focus at 7th
Additional bonuses
I can't seem to remember it, but there is a certain guild you can belong to in Golarion which gives +3 levels of spellcasting to one type and +1 level to the other.
4/5 of the levels have a d8 HD the other 1/5 admittedly has a d6 HD
BAB(with partial progression)=14 at 20th(1 less BAB than Vigilante)
Saves(with partial progression)= Fort +9 Ref +10 Will +10(That's 1 less overall + to saves than Vigilante)
Spellcasting@20th= 19 levels of druid[9th], 12 levels of sorcerer[6th] (That's effectively 5 more spells levels, admittedly the arcane caster level will be lower but I'm pretty sure 6th level spells at 12ish caster level is better than 4th level spells at 20thish caster level in this comparison)
Class features: Wildshape as a 10th level druid, cool can't die thing, couple other druidy abilities, 1st and 3rd level bloodline powers, evangelist boons, extra languages, +2 AC, mixing spells ability, and +2 to a stat and fly form for some rounds a day.(I'd say that is quite a bit more useful than say 10d6 "sneak attack," the random disguise/spook abilities that the Vigilante gets, and the s~+~ty capstone. Especially because you can just die and now your disguise as someone else is pretty flawless, along with the fact that people trying to find out about you get a -3.
You need 4 levels of Sorcerer before going in to Mystic Theurge
You need 4 levels of Sorcerer before going in to Mystic Theurge
With that he does not need another sorcerer level.
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Since it seems to be able to cover both good, and evil concepts, can I finally pull off my Snowflame PC?
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"In 4708, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a chelish court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Absalom underground. Today, still wanted by the hellknights they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them....maybe you can hire The A-Team."
Opening up the talents to all will create the problem of having a guy with 6-level arcane and 4-level divine casting....Is that really a problem? That's rather like multiclassing. Frankly, I think it would end up weak.
This won't work as the base ability can't be chosen as a talent, and is a prerequisite for all the other spellcasting talents.
Unfortunately it cannot cover Zuko and the Blue Spirit
If I really wanted to get across the flavor of Zuko and the Blue Spirit, I'd want someone who went between "flashy firebending" and "stealthy swordfighting". Sort of a "backstabby" identity and a "magic boomboom" identity. Which, sadly, the current main archetype doesn't much care for, but maybe there'll be archetypes to replace the "social" identity with something closer.
Indiana Jones, Darkman, Mr. Orange (Tim Roth's Reservoir Dogs role) all strike me as Vigilantes in one way or another.
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This won't work as the base ability can't be chosen as a talent, and is a prerequisite for all the other spellcasting talents.Opening up the talents to all will create the problem of having a guy with 6-level arcane and 4-level divine casting....Is that really a problem? That's rather like multiclassing. Frankly, I think it would end up weak.
Yeah, I noticed that, too, but it seemed like a kind of moot point from the beginning, so meh. Vigilantes will suck as spellcasters unless there's a major overhaul.
If I really wanted to get across the flavor of Zuko and the Blue Spirit, I'd want someone who went between "flashy firebending" and "stealthy swordfighting". Sort of a "backstabby" identity and a "magic boomboom" identity. Which, sadly, the current main archetype doesn't much care for, but maybe there'll be archetypes to replace the "social" identity with something closer.
Yeah part of what I don't like is I have but one choice with the current vigilante -- someone that is absolutely mundane then not.
I can't have a spellcaster by day melee master by night.
I can't have a priest by day wizard by night.
Regardless you get mundane day, something else night.
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Nobody has mentioned
Mr Furious
The Shoveler
The Bowler
The Spleen
The Invisible Boy
The Sphinx
The Blue Raja
The Tick, but he was always in vigilante combat mode
The vigilante handles the Badger rather well, multiple personalities and all.
While assassins in general had been mentioned, this class has more specifically brought a particular individual from a certain "nothing is true, everything is permitted" series to mind.
While Altair strikes me as being more the slayer type, Ezio having a bit of swashbuckling to him, and Connor giving off more of a petless ranger vibe, the vigilante lends itself well to one Aveline.
I trust I'm not the only one who feels this way.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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My first idea was, of course, Batman.
My second was Palpatine during the prequel era - publically a politician, secretly a zealot/warlock depending on how you classify Force users.
I also see a lot of Darkman in some of the class features.
Edit: In general, this class lets a GM get around that pesky issue in some campaigns where the paladin counts on detect evil to identify potential problems or narrow lists of suspects. You can have a spy or mastermind whose public persona is neutral while they secretly do evil behind the scenes.
I really hope that the final vigilante can fulfil the role of being a 20 level version of Shadowdander, Arcane Trickster, and maybe the Mystic Theurge.
Heck, he's a concept: a really good cover identity for a Vigilante would be to pretend to be only a divine caster by day and an arcane caster at night as a Vigilante! In reality, he uses both magics as necessary.
I also hope that there ends up being archetypes for the following two themes: shapeshifting races and people who gain shapeshifting as vigilantes. A vigilante kitsune or skinwalker's dual identity should protect the magic of his shapeshifting from detecting and dispelling. Plus it should protect his race from being detected in any of his forms.
Other races with minor shapeshifting such as the Tengu could have their powers enhanced so that they can hold their alternate forms for longer periods of time. I can also imagine human vigilantes who become Aasimars or Tieflings as part of their dual identity.
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A good medieval example would be a member of the vhemic courts. This group of vigilantes would pass judgement on an individual. Their signature was a dagger and a piece of rope. When these items showed up the accused knew they had been judged The accused usually committed suicide rather than wait for the judges to hunt them down
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After seeing that the Stalker Vigilante can gain a climb speed, the only thing in the whole world that I want is a magic item in the final book that lets you web sling.
Lalouch from Code Geass