So in the campaign I'm running, for various reasons that aren't relevant, the characters are in prison. For the next bit of the adventure, I'd like for them to fight their way out of prison. More specifically, there is a huge fracas in the prison that gives them an opportunity to escape, and they will have to fight their way out.
However, the group consists of two wizards (technically a wizard and a magus), and I'm wondering how, exactly, to play this. Since them being in prison is a part of the adventure that isn't their fault, I don't want to punish the wizards by saying that they don't get to participate in any of the combats for this segment (about 6 combats) because they won't have an hour to study their spellbook between when they escape their cell and get to the armory and when they break out.
To complicate the situation more, the magus actually took the Spell Scars magus arcana as his sole magus arcana (he's only gotten one so far), so while he can't prepare any and every spell, he CAN prepare enough spells to be effective, and simply breezing over the spellbook requirement for the wizard's sake will really negate much of the power that the magus purchased by getting that particular arcana, invalidating, to an extent, his choice.
So how to handle this?
Do I just give the wizards their preference of spells for the day? Or maybe what they had prepared before they got locked up? And just ignore the immersion part of that for the sake of game play?
Do I give the wizards an item of some sort, one-time use, that allows them to immediately refresh their spell selection?
Do I just let the actual wizard suffer, because wizards are powerful and this is one of the drawbacks of being a powerful class, thereby maintaining realism and immersion and allowing the Magus to benefit from his good ability selection?
Do I do something else entirely?
I appreciate any advice people are willing to give on the topic at hand that can help me come to an ideal solution. However, please refrain from topics such as "You shouldn't have done that; it was a dick move" as that isn't relevant nor constructive, nor do I agree with it. Also, due to the nature of the breakout, they can't have their spellbooks slipped to them ahead of time, and they will have few, if any, spells prepared from before they lost their spell components.
Thank you in advance for your thoughts and constructive suggestions. :)
While I'm not an experienced gm I do know that it sucks really bad to be almost completely excluded because the thing your character can do is inaccessible at the moment. I would say let him recall his previous spells prepared and explain it away as him still having them ingraved in his memory so he can prepair them without a spell book given enough time. However due to them being old spell memory's he has to make a check to cast (an easy one probably.)
Not perfect and vastly depends on how much rule bending your comfterable with but its the best I have if you don't just want to let him suffer.
The spellbook is kept in the room next to them. The PC helping them break out will surely (hopefully) lead them right to that room, as that's where *everyone's* gear is. The problem is that they are on a timer, and the party cannot wait an hour for the wizard(s) to prepare spells as the battles rage outside the door.
As mentioned, yes, the wizard(s) will still have any spells they had from the previous day, but it is unlikely that they will have many, and even if they do, they have a full day's worth of fighting ahead of them here with no chance for spell prep.
While I'm not an experienced gm I do know that it sucks really bad to be almost completely excluded because the thing your character can do is inaccessible at the moment.
I agree. At the end of the day, this is a game we play for fun, and I don't want him to be excluded. However, to an extent, allowing him to do what you outlined makes the magus' ability choice very suboptimal, because I essentially set precedence that half the power of his ability is worthless.
Simultaneously, I *am* of the camp that classes have weaknesses, and sometimes those are exploited. I see many people on here saying that it's a "dick move" for a DM to take away a wizard's spellbook or spell component pouch or a fighter's weapon, and I disagree entirely. It's a part of the game that creates realism and makes an RPG more than just a videogame, which is part of what I love.
My goal is to find a solution that is not meta-gamey, does not ruin immersion, does not dilute the power of the magus' ability, and does not ruin the wizard's fun.
Your solution is simple. The room that contains the party's gear also has some other gear including some scrolls or even a wand.
Now you just have to tailor the loot to the level of the party.
Spell Preparation Time
After resting, a wizard must study her spellbook to prepare any spells that day. If she wants to prepare all her spells, the process takes 1 hour. Preparing some smaller portion of her daily capacity takes a proportionally smaller amount of time, but always at least 15 minutes, the minimum time required to achieve the proper mental state.
This gives the wizard a chance to prepare some spells. roughly a fourth. Depending ont he situation a sneak can get out, retrieve some minor gear and get back to the cage.
Also, depending on his level that book is worth BANK So destroying the book is not the smartest move financially speaking.
Simultaneously, I *am* of the camp that classes have weaknesses, and sometimes those are exploited. I see many people on here saying that it's a "dick move" for a DM to take away a wizard's spellbook or spell component pouch or a fighter's weapon, and I disagree entirely. It's a part of the game that creates realism and makes an RPG more than just a videogame, which is part of what I love.
I'm in complete agreement.
You know all those threads that complain about Wizard's being too powerful? This is why. GM's completely remove all their limitations and then complain about how powerful they are. I mean think about how much more powerful a Barbarian would be if you ignored Fatigue and penalties for for Power Attack.
Sometimes, some of your party members are going to have to take a back seat so others can shine. If you have a Rogue, a prison break would be a great time for there chance in the spotlight (and probably their only chance :P ).
EDIT: I will say that I like Korak's idea, give him a few minutes, maybe 1 spell per level, but he can trade out a higher level for a lower level, or some-such.
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I think the real issue here is going to be the time requirement to study the spellbook.
It seems logical that one of the first things they will shoot for is the party's gear, not just the spellbook, but the fighter's magic sword, ranger's bow and so on.
It seems logical to me that a major prison would have to be capable of handling prisoners of varying abilities such as experienced warriors, sorcerers who don't need anything to be effective, oracles who are naturally divinely powered.
So they probably have gear to help the guards with that kind of thing.
What if there is a stash of items that includes scrolls, wands and alchemical items? The magus and wizard could use those easily (provided they are on their spell list of course) but still feel like they have to very carefully manage their resources and not be at their full capability.
Your solution is simple. The room that contains the party's gear also has some other gear including some scrolls or even a wand.
Now you just have to tailor the loot to the level of the party.
I agree with wolflaughing, this is the best option. you let your magus shine for the arcana he took. but you still allow your wizard the opportunity to contribute without making the magus' choice worthless. drop a few attack scrolls, a few defensive scrolls, and maybe a utility scroll or two in there and the wizard should be good to go.
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Way of the Wicked book I has a prison break scenario and it solves the wizard issue fairly decent.
Basically, my suggestion is to build dramatic tension using parts of the game you normally don't use: remove spellbook, and spell component pouch, plus add manacles (your choice, no somatic component or a hefty 50% arcane spell failure or something like that). The wizard can still use some verbal spells and use some SLA from his specialist school.
Let the PC to have their spell slots full, as if they memorized spells normally, but don't allow them to study again until they manage to steal or get a spellbook. That would be the equivalent of a survival horror genre game of "make your bullets count, you have FEW". It also makes cantrips more interesting for a while. Daze would be great if it's a low level adventure.
This can become a very interesting "hunt for spell components" or "scavenge" that goes well with the vibe of a Prison Break or The Great Escape. For example: the material component of Daze is a pinch of wool. Players could get a pinch of wool from their own blankets, in their cells, maybe. Collecting a few material components like that (a living cricket allows for Sleep, etc) could be a minigame by itself. It also gives spotlight to something that we normally handwaive (the spell components, as a normal pouch makes you to ignore them)
Speak to the players of the mages. Be as vague as possible but ask them if they'd mind being 'inconvenienced' for a while. They might embrace the challenge.
As mentioned above, provide consumable magic items: scrolls, wands, potions.
Alternatively, give them a single scroll of Knock. They need this to get out of the prison, and now gives the other characters very good reason to keep them alive.
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If there is a collaborator with limited access to the wizard's spellbook, he could smuggle a few pages to the wizard to study before the breakout. Makes for good rollplay material too. "You...you RIPPED pages from my spellbook!? But now...I have some of my magic back! I don't know whether to kiss you or kill you!"
I think the answer is put all there gear in a nearby accessible location. With their gear, include some scrolls and wands for the wizard and magus to use.
Even if it's a wand of magic missile, it gives them something to do.
Your solution is simple. The room that contains the party's gear also has some other gear including some scrolls or even a wand.
Now you just have to tailor the loot to the level of the party.
An interesting idea, and I suppose if the wizard chose at that point to simply not use the wand and scrolls that would be his prerogative. Not an ideal choice, but a workable one. I suppose a low-level wand and a few scrolls wouldn’t be abhorrent in price, and would grant him a few options. This is the best option I’ve seen so far.
I like Mr. Pitt's option of making the spellbooks an early target in the prison break. There's also the question of how long they have been there and what spells they had prepared prior to incarceration. Prepared spells don't necessarily go away until they are cast or new spells are prepared.If you have the means to imprison a wizard or a magus, it's pretty much required that unless you're mutilating them to death, that you 1] have some means of getting rid of all of their memorized spells, and 2) confiscated and/or destroyed their spellbooks.
I don't really agree. This is a relatively low-level campaign, and the wizard(s) in question have no way of casting spells without their spell components, so I don't see how this applies.
So as far as participation, the wizard and magus will be limited to physical combat and skill checks, which is what you want. Design the scenario with this in mind. They will now have a goal to find or replace their spellbooks.
It's actually not what I want. Ideally, I'd like for them to be able to use their full normal complement of spells. I don't particularly want the wizard to resort to using his dagger in combat at the start of the day. What complicates this is that allowing them to bypass the normal rules for spell preparation essentially punishes the magus and makes his ability choice sub-par.
Spell Preparation Time
I'm aware of this rule, but, as mentioned, the characters will have ZERO time for spell preparation. Not a little. Not less than an hour. Basically zero. They're in a tense, time-critical situation and have to leave immediately or risk death. Certain death.
This gives the wizard a chance to prepare some spells. roughly a fourth. Depending ont he situation a sneak can get out, retrieve some minor gear and get back to the cage.
Again, no chance anyone can get out, retrieve his spellbooks, and return them to him.
Also, depending on his level that book is worth BANK So destroying the book is not the smartest move financially speaking.
His book is certainly not being destroyed. I see no reason to do that at this juncture.
Simultaneously, I *am* of the camp that classes have weaknesses, and sometimes those are exploited. I see many people on here saying that it's a "dick move" for a DM to take away a wizard's spellbook or spell component pouch or a fighter's weapon, and I disagree entirely. It's a part of the game that creates realism and makes an RPG more than just a videogame, which is part of what I love.I'm in complete agreement.
You know all those threads that complain about Wizard's being too powerful? This is why. GM's completely remove all their limitations and then complain about how powerful they are. I mean think about how much more powerful a Barbarian would be if you ignored Fatigue and penalties for for Power Attack.
Agreed. Sunder, disarm, oozes that destroy weapons and gear, they're all on the table, as far as I'm concerned. To do otherwise is to disrespect my players' skill and intelligence, and to invalidate certain gear choices (deliquescent gloves, wizards that take the time and work with realism to ward their spellbook, et cetera). What is important is that it not be done maliciously. It has to be logical, realistic, and immersive. Thieves should not steal the wizard's spellbook because the DM got tired of him being powerful. Thieves should steal the wizard's spellbook as a result of him bragging in the tavern about how much it was worth after finding that hidden library. This not being a videogame is a large part of what appeals to me. That said, I'll refrain from saying any more, because I really do not want to turn this thread into a debate about attacking players spellbooks and such.
Sometimes, some of your party members are going to have to take a back seat so others can shine. If you have a Rogue, a prison break would be a great time for there chance in the spotlight (and probably their only chance :P ).
Logically I agree with this, but in the end, this IS a game that we all play for fun, and this is a point where, if possible, I would fudge realism slightly. There's no point in one player sitting at the table for six hours with absolutely nothing to do. One fight, sure. Golems do that quite handily. But an entire day's worth of combat is something else entirely.
For reference, the party consists of a brawler, the wizard, the magus, a life oracle, and a waves oracle. No rogue.
EDIT: I will say that I like Korak's idea, give him a few minutes, maybe 1 spell per level, but he can trade out a higher level for a lower level, or some-such.
Again, sadly not an option. There is a hard time limit on their escape. If they don't escape within X amount of time, they will lose. Largely my fault for writing myself into a corner, but the first adventure of an arc is always the most annoyingly railroady, in my opinion. After they complete this, the world will open up for them to literally do as they see fit. Until then, however, they ride the tracks of "you couldn't be bothered to make characters until one day before we started playing so I had to write an entire adventure before I knew what you were even doing or wanted." Yeah.
The wizard is, of course, free to study spells. But knowing the players, they will not. They will properly read the urgency of the situation and opt for running. When there's a literal prison break going on around you, you absolutely do not stop and sit for an hour (or even fifteen minutes) to study spells, and this particular player is big on realism. He'll never do it.
I think the real issue here is going to be the time requirement to study the spellbook.
Again, the players have a window of about 2 minutes to escape to freedom without dying. That's 6 minutes total to escape, and I anticipate their escape will take around 4-5 minutes. That gives them 1-2 minutes to do other things, such as loot corpses or explore as they go. There will be no spell prep.
I wish I could give more information on the exact setting, so that it makes sense, but some of my players are on these boards and might stumble across this thread and I don't want them accidentally reading spoilers that will ruin the fun. Let's just assume, for the sake of argument, that six minutes after the PCs are broken out, the prison, which is relatively small and underground, will explode, killing everyone and everything inside. This is not what will actually happen, but it is a close enough simulacrum to function.
It seems logical that one of the first things they will shoot for is the party's gear, not just the spellbook, but the fighter's magic sword, ranger's bow and so on.
The armory containing their gear is next door to where they are being held. The person assisting their escape will take them there first.
It seems logical to me that a major prison would have to be capable of handling prisoners of varying abilities such as experienced warriors, sorcerers who don't need anything to be effective, oracles who are naturally divinely powered.
So they probably have gear to help the guards with that kind of thing.
I don't run a high magic world, so this is not the case. it's a relatively low level and low-powered campaign.
What if there is a stash of items that includes scrolls, wands and alchemical items? The magus and wizard could use those easily (provided they are on their spell list of course) but still feel like they have to very carefully manage their resources and not be at their full capability.
This again is an interesting idea, and the best one so far. I'll have to rather carefully manage the armory to give them some items they can use, and it will have to come out of their treasure budget for the level, but this works, albeit crudely.
There is a wizard discovery that allows you to make 1 hour of prep in 15 minutes. Definitely something every wizard should look into imo.
I'm inclined to agree, but seeing as the wizard is fifth level, he does not have it. He will not be gaining several levels before the next session. I need something on my end, not the players' end, if that makes sense.
Way of the Wicked book I has a prison break scenario and it solves the wizard issue fairly decent.
Basically, my suggestion is to build dramatic tension using parts of the game you normally don't use: remove spellbook, and spell component pouch, plus add manacles (your choice, no somatic component or a hefty 50% arcane spell failure or something like that). The wizard can still use some verbal spells and use some SLA from his specialist school.
Let the PC to have their spell slots full, as if they memorized spells normally, but don't allow them to study again until they manage to steal or get a spellbook. That would be the equivalent of a survival horror genre game of "make your bullets count, you have FEW". It also makes cantrips more interesting for a while. Daze would be great if it's a low level adventure.
This phrasing paints this idea in a much better light. I like the idea of running the tension like this. As this thread progresses I'm becoming more OK with the wizard not operating at full bore throughout this day's encounters, as long as he's not entirely worthless. There are drawbacks to being a wizard, after all, and this would be one of them. A few decent wand charges and options will allow him to participate even if he's not fully effective. Hmm.
If there is a collaborator with limited access to the wizard's spellbook, he could smuggle a few pages to the wizard to study before the breakout. Makes for good rollplay material too. "You...you RIPPED pages from my spellbook!? But now...I have some of my magic back! I don't know whether to kiss you or kill you!"
The collaborator will not have access to the spellbooks any earlier than the wizards. Essentially, parameters are thus:
* Wizards cannot access spellbooks in any way until prison break begins.
* Wizards do not have time for spell preparation.
* Wizards do not have ANY time for spell preparation.
* Magus' spellscars ability choice needs to be rewarded, not punished, so full spell slots cannot simply be "given" to both classes.
So far the best idea seems to be to give the *party* a few expendables, such as scrolls and a wand, that the wizard could choose to use to fight during that day, if he's so inclined. Or he could rely entirely upon his SLAs from class choices. He does have some. I think.
This seems like what I"m going to go with, unless someone can provide a better option that fulfills all the above.
Ah, I really wish the magus hadn't chosen that spell scars ability. xD
Actually, as of posting that last post...what do people think of a runestaff-like item? One that allows a character (the wizard) to use spell slots to cast its spells? This would let him participate by spending daily spell slots without giving him his actual spell preparation.
Thoughts? Too gamey? Too useable long-term? Essentially invalidates the magus' choice anyway? May as well just give him his spell slots?
Simple.
Some of the guards have scrolls on them, things like web, mage armor, shield, and what not. Stuff that would help with crowd control, maybe false life and ghoul's touch is nice too (though with low DC isn't going to be great).
Having scrolls gives the caster something to cast too.
Does the wizard have fast study? Because that would make this much easier.
Also what school abilities does the wizard have? Because some of those could be essential.
Finally for many of my wizards I tend to like spell mastery, still spell and silent spell just for these sorts of events.
Something else -- if another prisoner is a wizard with spell mastery you might make an exception where that prisoner can help the pc prepare some of the spells he has mastered.
Welcome to the problem, that can kill off a Wizard. Especially if you using it on them at 1st level.
Wizard more than any other class, is a commoner, when without there spell book.
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Solution:
1) Let them play a sorcerer.
2) Wack them upside the head with a book, and tell them to learn "Spell Master", very soon, because they are going to need it. ~~~even to the point of letting them retraining a feat for it~~~~~
3) Cheat: Give them a wand, tube of scrolls, or have a magic spell-book fairy, poof a spell book into there room.
I've run several imprisoned PCs scenarios over the years, and the issue of a spellcaster being imprisoned being problematic is always considered. Of course wizards aren't allowed to possess their spellbooks while incarcerated (nor spell components if you require them), and usually have to spend a day in isolation, so any memorized spells are gone 24 hours later, and then the wizard is let back into the general prison population. Sorcerers and other spontaneous casters are generally kept in a separate, more arcanely secure facility away from general population at all times.
I've even run complete adventures where the entire plot occurs while being incarcerated - dealing with gangs and crime syndicate bosses, trying to smuggle spell components, lesser magic items, etc, organizing mass escapes, working under cover as a prisoner for your own investigations. If the point of your party getting incarcerated is for them to get out as fast as possible (because its a place no wants to be), it kind makes putting them in prison pointless. If you're going to take the trouble of putting them in jail against their will, then provide a full adventure worth of activity in that jail in the first place.
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I like Mr. Pitt's option of making the spellbooks an early target in the prison break. There's also the question of how long they have been there and what spells they had prepared prior to incarceration. Prepared spells don't necessarily go away until they are cast or new spells are prepared.If you have the means to imprison a wizard or a magus, it's pretty much required that unless you're mutilating them to death, that you 1] have some means of getting rid of all of their memorized spells, and 2) confiscated and/or destroyed their spellbooks.I don't really agree. This is a relatively low-level campaign, and the wizard(s) in question have no way of casting spells without their spell components, so I don't see how this applies.
I don't know how you get rid of prepared spells without killing them - prepared spells remain in a wizard's mind until they are cast or new spells are prepared.
Insofar as components go, there are a number of good 0- and 1st-level spells that don't have material components: acid splash, jolt, charm person, shield, burning hands, magic missile.
I like Mr. Pitt's option of making the spellbooks an early target in the prison break. There's also the question of how long they have been there and what spells they had prepared prior to incarceration. Prepared spells don't necessarily go away until they are cast or new spells are prepared.If you have the means to imprison a wizard or a magus, it's pretty much required that unless you're mutilating them to death, that you 1] have some means of getting rid of all of their memorized spells, and 2) confiscated and/or destroyed their spellbooks.I don't really agree. This is a relatively low-level campaign, and the wizard(s) in question have no way of casting spells without their spell components, so I don't see how this applies.
I don't know how you get rid of prepared spells without killing them - prepared spells remain in a wizard's mind until they are cast or new spells are prepared.
Insofar as components go, there are a number of good 0- and 1st-level spells that don't have material components: acid splash, jolt, charm person, shield, burning hands, magic missile.
There are a couple of spells in later books and at least one domain power that can help drain spells from a person.
I could imagine the wizards as a whole keeping that a closely guarded secret. After all, why reveal one of the few advantages you have when you have such a glaring weakness.
To the several people that asked, as previously mentioned the party is 5th or 6th level. Many of the presented options do not work. And, yes, I'm aware of the fast preparation wizard discovery, but the wizard cannot change his character's feats for this fight alone, so that is a moot point. If he had that discovery this would completely be a nonissue. I appreciate you bringing it to my attention, however. In the future, I will be certain to urge players to take such feats so that they can perform better in encounters of which they are as yet unaware.
Welcome to the problem, that can kill off a Wizard. Especially if you using it on them at 1st level.
Wizard more than any other class, is a commoner, when without there spell book.
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I don't agree that this is a problem, that wizards are helpless in some situations. The same can be said of any class. The problem lies in my writing myself into a corner because I did not expect this particular combination of classes and abilities when writing the adventure.
However, let's please be careful. As mentioned, I don't want to turn this into yet another pointless "wizards are helpless without their spellbook how dare you" thread.
Solution:
1) Let them play a sorcerer.
This is not helpful. The character is established and has played for several sessions. They were more than welcome to play a sorcerer. They chose to play a wizard. Why on earth would you suggest this?
2) Wack them upside the head with a book, and tell them to learn "Spell Master", very soon, because they are going to need it. ~~~even to the point of letting them retraining a feat for it~~~~~
Again, not helpful. The wizard has already been built and established. You are not actually providing helpful ideas here. Ignoring the fact that Spell Mastery is a very situational feat that is only good in one out of every several dozen fights, and thus a generally poor choice for most situations, I'm well aware that this feat would fix the issue. Your suggestion does not help me create an environment where he gets to play the character he wants and have fun, however.
And, yes, I know spell mastery is extremely powerful...once in a while. But that's a nonissue. I could rant for pages about how I'd never bother to take it, but that's another thread entirely.
3) Cheat: Give them a wand, tube of scrolls, or have a magic spell-book fairy, poof a spell book into there room.
That IS the idea that has been bandied about at least six times in this thread. Thanks.
If the point of your party getting incarcerated is for them to get out as fast as possible (because its a place no wants to be), it kind makes putting them in prison pointless. If you're going to take the trouble of putting them in jail against their will, then provide a full adventure worth of activity in that jail in the first place.
Sound advice, but not really helpful. The die is cast. I'm not particularly fond of this part of the adventure, but it's done and can't be changed, as I haven't had time and had to settle on what I had. It would have worked fine if not for the combination of classes and abilities that were presented.
Regardless, and you could be forgiven for not knowing this, but see above about not being able to give out too many details on here, the PCs are being transported from one place to another. They break out at "another."So the point is not for them to get out as fast as possible. The point is for them to be in a new place when they break out so the first part of the railroady adventure can begin so that they can be an established party and THEN have entirely free reign within the world.
Also, you said that spells are wiped from memory after 24 hours. I was not aware of this. My understanding was that spells stayed until used. This changes a lot. Can you cite the rules that state this?
Insofar as components go, there are a number of good 0- and 1st-level spells that don't have material components: acid splash, jolt, charm person, shield, burning hands, magic missile.
That's helpful to know. The PCs will have all their gear and spell components, however. It will essentially be a montage or transition scene. Get captured (unless they perform extraordinarily well in that fight and win, which is quite possible, but unlikely from what I've seen of their playstyle with this particular set of characters), get imprisoned, get moved, break out, be at the new place. They will spend X rounds after breaking out putting their gear back on and they will not do a single fight without it, because that is, in my opinion, a boring and tiresome amount of bookkeeping on both ends. My original plan WAS to just give the wizard his full complement of spells for the day, but the Magus and his spell scars ability make me hesitant to do that as doing so essentially invalidates his arcana choice.
Also, you said that spells are wiped from memory after 24 hours. I was not aware of this. My understanding was that spells stayed until used. This changes a lot. Can you cite the rules that state this?
This is blatantly incorrect.
Prepared Spell Retention
Once a wizard prepares a spell, it remains in his mind as a nearly cast spell until he uses the prescribed components to complete and trigger it or until he abandons it. Certain other events, such as the effects of magic items or special attacks from monsters, can wipe a prepared spell from a character's mind.
This is the rule, from D&D, PRD, and PFsrd. There is no ambiguity, Simply allow him to select a few spells from before they were trapped. Bam, instant spell selection. Make a chart. List all his spells known, choose a number of spells, and let him roll that many times. The spells he gets correspond to said chart.
As someone else upthread mentioned, the wizard should still retain any uncast spells. Does he have enough to make an interesting go of it? Combined with a few wands/scrolls/whathaveyou?
No idea. We'll come to this tomorrow. He hasn't actually started the day of, just yet. That all depends on how much he spends, but since there's a big, boss-level fight coming up, I expect he'll spend a lot.
Another option could be to let the Wizard prepare off the Magus' Spell-Scars. I'd be leery of it personally, but it is an option.
That....is an interesting idea. I actually will consider that. Especially if the players bring it up.They are familiar with each other's writings, after all.
Hmm...
...And, yes, I'm aware of the fast preparation wizard discovery, but the wizard cannot change his character's feats for this fight alone, so that is a moot point. If he had that discovery this would completely be a nonissue.
This leads me to believe that there is some time before the heroes will get caught. What you could do is say that they estimate they have up to 20 minutes to prepare before things get impossible. Then scale the encounters. The closer it gets to the 20 minute mark, the more prepared the guards are, and maybe they've even called for reinforcements. Don't forget the Fighter types will need time to put on their armor too.
Which brings me to another point, I'm assuming that the Wizard has some pretty good skill rolls, let them become relevant... although the Magus would probably have the same skills. Does the Wizard have a familiar? If not the bonded object would at least give them 1 spell, if so, maybe the Familiar could make a good scout?
You know... if its within 24 hours of being caught mage's lucubration can grant him back a spell. You could have some elixir's or something sitting around that could grant him back some of his spells.
Since this is an effect of the spell something similar to it in a magic item form would be doable (for a GM).
He should have his cantrips regardless, and his school powers. Not a great place to start but better than being a full blown commoner.
I really wish people wouldn't post without reading what's already here...as mentioned, the players will essentially have two minutes of "free time" they can spend on looting, spell memorization, or some similar combination of the two. Fast study would be an aid, but the player didn't take it, so as a suggestion, it's not helpful, plus it's been suggested several times already.
At this point I don't really know what you're looking for. There is no by the rules way of the wizard getting all of his spells back instantaneously.
Yes, I was and am hoping for some sort of out-of-the box solution to the puzzle. Just because I'm seeking one does not mean one exists, however. The suggestions I've so far been given are imperfect but usable, and they may have to do. I do greatly appreciate the input of those that helped out and listened to what I was looking for, so far.
You do not seem to want to give the wizard scrolls or wands. I suspect the best fit; if you are going to stay by the rules is to allow the wizard to hide for fifteen minutes and prepare a quarter his spells and hope he has a bonded item or some already prepared spells.
I will most likely give the wizard a few scrolls to use in combat. It's not ideal, but I'm not convinced there is an ideal situation. I think people are missing that. As I said, just because I"m looking for and hoping for a solution does not mean there is one.
I still think it's perfectly fine to give the wizard some sort of inspired emergency bonus. It's clear you don't want the wizard to have nothing; I agree, that would be boring. But your choices all forms of GM caveat, pick the one the least breaks the verisimilitude and go from there.
That is my other thought, yes. Something small would not ruin the benefit of the magus' ability.
Thanks for the input, Create Mr. Pitt.
Dafydd, I don't like to tell the players what they will or won't be coming up against in the future. Even if I were to run a scenario like this again, in order for their choices to have merit everything has to have value and everything has to be possible. Plus, for a smart wizard fast study is useful every day, as he leaves spell slots open.
The thread has helped a lot. As people have pointed out, he won't be helpless. He still has school powers and cantrips, and if they make it through the fights in this area, they'll be able to push on further that day without resting since he'll essentially be at full strength. I think I will give him a few scrolls of spells he doesn't yet know that he'll have to choose between using or saving to memorize, as well as a low level wand of some sort. That will affect both him and the magus. That should allow the player to still participate in the combats and allow the magus to function at effectively full strength.
Anyway, thanks a lot to everyone that participated. Signing off now for the game tomorrow. Good night.
In case you check in again before the game, load him down with the group's supply of alchemical items, alchemist fire, thunderstones, etc.
I read the Original Post, but don't have time right now to read everyone's replies...
With that in mind (I could be reapeating what's been said) here's my thoughts.
I always figured wizards remembered their spells until used or until they prepared again. That means they'd still have whatever spells they hadn't used when they were locked up.
If you think that's overpowered (and there's a pretty good argument for that) you could say that they lose half their spells (half their prepared spells from each spell level, I'd probably let them choose which spells) and have to make do with that. Or you could say they lose 1 prepared spell from each spell level per day (That'd mean they'd lose high level spells more quickly but they'd still have utility/low level spells)?
If neither of them suit you, I'd be inclined to just deny the wizard the spells. They'll be useless in combat, but they're likely the character with the highest INT. score, tell them to use it. This probably requires a bit of planning on the part of the GM, having Knowledge checks be useful, giving them search checks to find a key etc. It might even be worth giving the wizard's player an hours notice as to what's going to happen (and swearing them to secrecy) so that they can role-play their godlike intelligence (the 25 Int character reacts super quickly, understanding what's going on faster than the 16 Int player would).
Heh, I Just read all the other posts, looks like I missed the window for being helpful by about half an hour.
I like the idea of unknown scrolls, giving the wizard a choice between short and long term efficiency.
I also really liked the idea of the wizard being able to read the Magus' spell scars. That makes the Spell Scars more than just a personal skill, they're helping the party as well with it. It gives the option to play both characters closer to their optimal spell capacity, and it's all thanks to the Magus.
How about we shift this problem?
You have written yourself into a corner. You have made a point of telling most people here that their advice is not helpful. You do not want to bend rules to change a problem YOU created with your railroad.
How about YOU fix it?
Do you not control your own writing? Have you shared any of this with your players? If not, change what you have written. Have them find a way into the next room longer before the actual break (loose stone or w/e), have the sneaky character escape first and get the book before your tense countdown clock begins.
I assume they will get a clue about the 4-6 minutes before you die scenario? Have that clue arrive right after 15 minutes of them accessing the book. In short, do not be a slave to your own writing, but adapt to achieve fun for your players.
Alternatively, let the wizard suck for a bit. No different than a sundered bow on an Archer..
Ultimately, you now see the problem with the class.
You cheat, and give the Wizard an exception to imprisonment by way of giving them a Magic item ($$$), and another spell book ($$$), while they are imprisoned , so that they can regain spells at low level to be of any use to escape prison.
You cheat, and bend the rules, by letting them alter there class to change a feat.
You keep it real = You let the player tag along for the adventure, without a spell book. They can not regain any spells. Once free and outside the imprisonment, then they can tag along, get a share of the treasure to spend all there money on rebuilding a spell book from scratch.
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Now, in 2nd ed, i had a wizard, and the DM did start us off imprisoned. I had to sit throw an 8 hour session, throw 2 game session, without a spell book. only to find out that once i was free, i had to rebuild my spell book from scratch (( now ink are like 10gp per level, but in 2nd ed it was more like 100 gp per spell level )). I had 8 gp to my character name after the 2nd game session. == needless to say, i quit that DM's game after that ==
I have never look at wizard since then.
Have leaned toward Clerics and Druid since then, as i like full caster that can either wield a weapon with armor with better BAB and having more HP. Have even level dip into monk at 1st level, if there is even the slightest HINT that we are going to be imprisoned at all in first 3 levels.
Though Sorcerer was the best idea ever in 3rd ed and since.
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Anyway, wish you good luck. As a DM, i have written myself into corner before, and found the best option is to Bend or Break with reality, and remember that this is a Game.
The most important thing is to keep it fun for the player, and letting them have option to do stuff, even when hampered.
Perhaps allow the wizard to prepare a few spells from the magus's spell-scars, with something like a DC 15 + Spell Level check per spell prepared (same check as adding a spell to your spellbook). Each failed check would result in an empty spell slot. This would a) let him join in the fray with some significant impediments, probably similar to that of a fighter without his normal weapons, and b) let the magus hold one over him for a while that he had to study his backside to cast magic missile.