If I have a animal companion with these feats and evolution points .
If he runs out 10' bites the enemy.
He gets a free trip he makes it.
Then a free grab, he makes it.
Now he has 40' to move can he just drag the opponent with him since it is on the ground and grabbed? And continue back to the party with the enemy in his mouth?
negative sir, to my understanding once you grapple you gain the grappled condition and halt movement. (later grapple checks can be done to move the target in lieu of pinning and other options.) Based on my reading of the rules anyways. Others may be able to prove otherwise.
If I have a animal companion with these feats and evolution points .
If he runs out 10' bites the enemy.
He gets a free trip he makes it.
Then a free grab, he makes it.
Now he has 40' to move can he just drag the opponent with him since it is on the ground and grabbed? And continue back to the party with the enemy in his mouth?
You might if you choose the second option of your Grab power and your GM says ok.
The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself.
So yes assuming Spring Attack and Grab and the above line from Grab you could indeed try to move the grabbed creature with you when you move back with Sprint attack.
But that probably itself will require a separate combat maneuver check to grapple, reposition or drag, depending on if your GM is generous or not.
If he rules it does not then your free and clear to move back the same round. If it does then you have to wait until next round since Spring Attack is a full round action.
Unless you can make another Grapple check as a swift action I don't think your going to be able to do it, and with that -20 you may not be able to anyways.
If you want to drag the enemy off with grappling you'll probably have to wait until the next round when you maintain the grapple.
I have a PC who might sometimes have both Trip and Grab, so I'm also interested to know if everybody agrees that a single hit with the appropriate natural weapon should trigger both powers. I can't see why it wouldn't. I'm just curious what other folks think.
If the animal can wear belts (and most can) then the belt of Anaconda's Coils might be a very nice item here since it would increase grappling damage in general and allow a little Constrict damage even when you're just moving foes around.
I have a PC who might sometimes have both Trip and Grab, so I'm also interested to know if everybody agrees that a single hit with the appropriate natural weapon should trigger both powers. I can't see why it wouldn't. I'm just curious what other folks think
Would depend a lot on the wording of the abilities but if both are free (but conditional) attacks I would think they would work as long as the conditions are met and the GM says ok.
I have a PC who might sometimes have both Trip and Grab, so I'm also interested to know if everybody agrees that a single hit with the appropriate natural weapon should trigger both powers. I can't see why it wouldn't. I'm just curious what other folks thinkWould depend a lot on the wording of the abilities but if both are free (but conditional) attacks I would think they would work as long as the conditions are met and the GM says ok.
+1 it is largely up to your GM as he has absolute authority to put reasonable limits on the 'one or more' free actions you can take.
The only provision in the grapple rules for moving a grappled foe is to maintain your grapple. You cannot spring attack, grapple, and then drag the opponent back with you. You will have to wait until the next turn to maintain the grapple and then select the move option unless you have an option to roll another grapple check (such as Greater Grapple if you somehow have an extra move action on top of the full-round action).
Knowing what the DM in a particular game will permit is great for that game, but knowing the "official" ruling can be nice too. I suspect that the DM for the game in question would be fairly permissive though she might object if I try to perform the Trip first and then claim a +4 bonus on the Grapple. Getting that +4 to maintain the grapple on the prone opponent in subsequent rounds would already be pretty nice though.
As far as moving tripped foes immediately goes, there's a Riptide Attack feat which allows you to make a Drag attempt as a swift action after a Trip. It would be tough for an animal companion to qualify for though.
I agree that there doesn't seem to be a rule defining what order two free actions triggered by the same event must be performed in. I guess the issue might grow more complicated if the animal companion (let's call it Dog) had Cornugon Smash and the victim (let's call it Goblin) had Ankle Biter. Could Dog use the free action intimidate from Cornugon Smash to demoralize Goblin before attempting the Trip and therefore triggering an immediate action Bite counterattack from Goblin? If so then Goblin might get a -2 to hit on that Bite. If Dog also had Hurtful could he bite Goblin again as a swift action before Goblin bites him? Could all of this happen before Dog makes his first check to trip Goblin as a free action? If not then why? Is Dog required to perform Trip first? Does Dog have to choose between Trip, Grab, and Cornugon Smash?
I know that "it is up to dog and goblin's DM to decide", but I wonder what the official ruling would be if there were one.
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The grappled condition specifically confers a "Cannot move" clause on both parties. Even if the grappler uses the special Grab rules so they do not gain the grappled condition, the target does.
It says you cannot move, as per under your own power. Not that you cannot be moved. You do not suddenly become quantum entangled on that spot or defy all the forces of the universe ala Mjolnir.
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If the grappled condition prevented all movement, the "Move" option under grapple would be useless.
Move: You can move both yourself and your target up to half your speed. At the end of your movement, you can place your target in any square adjacent to you. If you attempt to place your foe in a hazardous location, such as in a wall of fire or over a pit, the target receives a free attempt to break your grapple with a +4 bonus.
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Lol, if there is an earthquake or a create pit under you just grapple your nearest friend and you will float until help arrives...
I disagree. Per MY INTERPRETATION of the rules, and barring GM rulings, there is no differentiation between 'cannot move' and 'cannot be moved'.
Fixed that for you.
Nowhere does it list any immunities to any magics or standard means of being moved.
It does not make you immune to levitate, flight, being carried, telekinesis, drag, grapple-move, reposition, Teleport, Word of Recall, Telekinetic Charge, falling or any of the other myriad ways in the game of BEING moved.
If it did, this rather game breaking, stunning and impressive power would say so.
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The grappled condition specifically confers a "Cannot move" clause on both parties. Even if the grappler uses the special Grab rules so they do not gain the grappled condition, the target does.It says you cannot move, as per under your own power. Not that you cannot be moved. You do not suddenly become quantum entangled on that spot or defy all the forces of the universe ala Mjolnir.I disagree. Per the rules, and barring GM rulings, there is no differentation between 'cannot move' and 'cannot be moved'. Any instance of being able to move a person in this situation is purely the GMs call, not based on rules.
But I guess that was implied.
So if you hold a squirrel you are inmune to Reverse Gravity?
So if you hold a squirrel you are immune to Reverse Gravity?The grappled condition specifically confers a "Cannot move" clause on both parties. Even if the grappler uses the special Grab rules so they do not gain the grappled condition, the target does.It says you cannot move, as per under your own power. Not that you cannot be moved. You do not suddenly become quantum entangled on that spot or defy all the forces of the universe ala Mjolnir.I disagree. Per the rules, and barring GM rulings, there is no differentation between 'cannot move' and 'cannot be moved'. Any instance of being able to move a person in this situation is purely the GMs call, not based on rules.
But I guess that was implied.
YOUR MAGIC IS NO MATCH FOR MY SQUIRREL POWA!!!
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The whole POINT of the Grab ability's "-20 and not considered grappled" line is that you can pick up and move the other person.
Creatures like Rocs use Flyby Attack to move, attack, Grab, and then keep flying!
The whole POINT of the Grab ability's "-20 and not considered grappled" line is that you can pick up and move the other person.
Creatures like Rocs use Flyby Attack to move, attack, Grab, and then keep flying!
Which sadly doesn't work UNLESS they take the -20 option.
You can move a grappled foe if the rules allow it. Please show where "-20 and not considered grappled" allows you to move the grappled foe without a maintain check.
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Okay, not quite what you want, but, can you give your companion reach?
If so, he could run to the enemy, stop 10 feet away, attack, trip, grab.
On a successful grab at range with reach, the enemy is automatically moved into one of your adjacent squares. Table variation on whether you get to pick the square or if it is just the closest open square. If you can convince your GM that you get to pick, chose a square on the side of you closest to the party, then drop them. Now your attack ends, and you are not grappled, take the rest of your movement back to the party. (Stay within ten feet of the bad guy though. If he is dumb enough to stand us, you can take an AoO to hit him again, and move him the rest of the way back to your party and keep him in grab.)
i would be hesitant to allow such a thing within the same action without a check.
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There is a check. The Grapple check. With a -20(!) penalty.
Samasboy1,
If you have taken the -20 penalty, the ONLY effect is that you are not considered grappled and thus do not have the grapple penalties. It does not change any other element of the grapple rules. You still cannot move your target without performing a maintain check.