I am planning on playing a complete non combative Theologian cleric (healing domain) for an upcoming pathfinder game. Now I realize that some of my choices are not optimal cleric wise but..
I see this cleric sans any armor. Literally in robes or actually, looks like the iconic wizard from pathfinder except in white. And maybe not so grumpy looking.
We are starting level 3. I did a level 1 dip into Sensei monk and before you fall out...I did it for the nearly complete ac bonus from Wis (wearing no armor pretty much puts me to the mercy of protection spells if not this). I have Deflect Arrows as the monk bonus feat so that helps some. It puts me progression on par with an oracle which isnt so great but...
I also do not expect to have a lot of gear. Basically most everything is turned over to the church and to furthering the faith in the land. It would be very cool if the DM would allow me an old school vow of poverty type thing but Im not holding my breath.
My goal is to basically be a healing machine without offensive spells (except for things like banish, etc at higher levels). Sanctuary is my friend as long as I can pull it off (which helps with is high starting Wis).
What do you think? What do you suggest feat progression?
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There are lots of things that you can do that aren't directly damaging but limit enemy options and can be considered offensive - things like Wall of Stone. You don't hurt anyone, just deny an area to them and limit movement.
There is a big moral difference between hurting someone and impeding them. In game terms non-damaging battlefield control can be a powerful option.
Thank you for the suggestion but the concept wont work with Shaman. And I agree on the battlefield control vs damage aspect.
What do you think about the monk dip? Too costly for the 1 level loss?
The Theologian cleric gives a costless metamagic effect to one heal spell plus the healing domain gives +50% heal power on the cures so that helps a lot healing wise.
Right now I have selective channel and combat casting as my level feats (Aasimar). Any suggestion for future feat progression with a build like this? We are not doing society play.
Generally - investing heavily in healing and making it your main role is a poor plan, but I'm sure you knew that. Aside from Heal, most standard action heal spells (or channelling) heal less than one round of an enemy's full attack. Heal someone at risk of dying, but topping off an ally when you could prevent incoming damage is a waste. There are times and strategies where it can make sense to routinely combat heal (Oradins, for example) but usually it just poor use of actions & resources.
Pathfinder in not an MMO. You should not need to be spamming heals on the main tank. Prevention > Cures.
Obviously it is doable, and if you have fun, and so does everyone else, go for it.
That said, I wouldn't want a character like that in my party. If you can usually be replaced by a 750 gp wand and a little time, then I would rather just have a bigger share of the loot and leave your character at home.
Obviously, groups are different, and your mileage may vary, but at the very least I would check with the other players and make sure that your flavorful, but not fully contributing character, is cool with them.
Maybe look at the Reach Cleric, and use your AoOs for trip/disarm/bulrush attempts? You can do battlefield control that way, and still use your standard action to heal/buff/debuff/battlefield control with magic.
Maybe try to get Mage Armor or glamered armor to LOOK like a priest in robes....
I think a spirit guide life oracle would be the way to go. Spirit guide allow you some flex and asimar will allow you to super charge the Channeling of the oracle. Dual cursed will allow you some more options, and it will be a Nice character to be blind and lame with.
t.
That said, I wouldn't want a character like that in my party. If you can usually be replaced by a 750 gp wand and a little time, then I would rather just have a bigger share of the loot and leave your character at home.
Obviously, groups are different, and your mileage may vary, but at the very least I would check with the other players and make sure that your flavorful, but not fully contributing character, is cool with them.
Comments like this are just 100% useless. Firstly, if you are in a tough fight, you need more than a wand of cure light wounds or there will be party bodybags needing res spells. Otherwise there would never be a need for cure serious wound spells or heal spells. The fact that you discounted the entire cure line that much tells me you either dont play over level 5 gameplay or you are just clueless. Either way, you are useless for this discussion.
Comments like this are just 100% useless. Firstly, if you are in a tough fight, you need more than a wand of cure light wounds or there will be party bodybags needing res spells. Otherwise there would never be a need for cure serious wound spells or heal spells. The fact that you discounted the entire cure line that much tells me you either dont play over level 5 gameplay or you are just clueless. Either way, you are useless for this discussion.t.
That said, I wouldn't want a character like that in my party. If you can usually be replaced by a 750 gp wand and a little time, then I would rather just have a bigger share of the loot and leave your character at home.
Obviously, groups are different, and your mileage may vary, but at the very least I would check with the other players and make sure that your flavorful, but not fully contributing character, is cool with them.
Generally if everybody help bringing Down the baddies, the casting of any healing Spell short of heal is considered a bad use of ones actions. Since almost every other relevant action you could take would be better for the overall goal. Only if you can heal without loosing the option of casting buff spells or other stuff it becomes a viable rute. But if your groups figths take more than 8 rounds in avarage that May not be true.
Actually I'm going to agree with dave, the party is just not going to be that happy to have you around if all you do is heal.
I once played in a game with a really cool character who was the party fighter, except he only did combat maneuvers not including grapple. Yes he would control the field to a certain extent (he could only be in one place at a time and can only control that one area and is therefore easily circumvented unlike say a wizard). The main problem was that he never actually injured anything, and he was the party melee. So combats would drag on and on, and on, and my character who I had something completely different in mind for suddenly had to become a damage dealer despite being a casting cleric. I can't tell you how much I hated that character. The rogue in the party also did very little, but the player didn't actually intentionally make a gap in the party.
I made a cleric who had the healing domain, and a bunch of channel feats. However my main action in combat was to buff party members. If you take the good domain (as well as healing, there are gods with that combination) you will get a domain power that you can use to empower your allies that becomes a huge bonus at higher levels.
Another option is to be an evangelist (the archetype not the preseige class), then you get a bard song equivalent, though you would then need to prepare your cures.
If you really want to cure, and do little to nothing else (and you want to be a cleric, life oracle does it much better) then be a merciful healr, much more thematic, and you get much more out of it.
Comments like this are just 100% useless. Firstly, if you are in a tough fight, you need more than a wand of cure light wounds or there will be party bodybags needing res spells. Otherwise there would never be a need for cure serious wound spells or heal spells. The fact that you discounted the entire cure line that much tells me you either dont play over level 5 gameplay or you are just clueless. Either way, you are useless for this discussion.
I was trying to be helpful. In my experience, when you have a party in which everyone contributes, most fights can be won without anyone dropping. Bad luck does happen, and during those times a well place cure spell can make a huge difference. That is why I said 'usually' replaced by a wand. There are indeed exceptions.
I think though that building a character for those exceptions, is likely to make them commonplace. You have a character who won't be either dealing or preventing any damage, only trying to mitigate it. Compound that with weakening your casting in order to get AC that will probably be inferior to what you would have if you just wore some armor, and planning on giving away your gold, and thus being even weaker, and your character is a liability, not an asset.
That is purely from a tactical perspective. Fun and pure tactics aren't the same thing, and sure this has plenty of flavor. If your group is in to it, it could be fun to play, perhaps even with a whole group of less than optimal character (facing less then usual challenge ratings to compensate) and everyone should have a great time.
That isn't the default game though, and if the other players are expecting you to pull you weight in a default pathfinder game, I think this character won't accomplish that. That is my opinion, but it is based on a fair understanding of the mechanics of the system.
In any event, I certainly didn't wish to insult you and I hope you enjoy whatever character you decide to play.
Casting cure/hp replenishment spells/channeling positive energy in combat is a matter of timing, not attempting to keep hp "up" in the face of overwhelming damage, rather keeping one's allies out of negative hp. Channel Energy is plenty effective, moreso in some campaigns than others when you have Selective Channel and Swift Channel if you're of the mind. If all else, when encamped use channels to "pulse" the group back to full hp instead of your precious spell slots.
If your fairly typical "cloistered cleric" as proposed by the OP is in the equation, they're toting a club or staff, sling and stones. A knife to eat with.
magic stone is frighteningly effective with a healthy Dex and Deadly Aim, *especially* against the mindless dead, and especially at lower levels. At 9th level pick up Vital Strike to further augment this capability. I recommend a wand of magic stone in your cleric's pocket ASAP. Best part is that it costs the exact same as a wand of CLW. Toss on a divine favor the same round you load your sling and/or make liberal use of guidance, all of a sudden Sir Meerps-a-lot is crushing a skellie's skull with every hit.
What is the cleric's stance on smiting the unliving and blasphemous creatures not of this world (aberrations and most extraplanar creatures)? This is an important distinction for some. Depending on one's patron deity, your cleric's expected "code of conduct" will *require* that righteous beatdowns to be administered.
If your group actually chit-chats about character concepts before beginning a campaign, bring it up to them. Knowing about it advance the higher CON characters might select Fast Healing as one of their starting feats to add that bit of extra hp from a single healing provided by you. There might be certain traits that add bits here and there to your cure spells and channel energy bursts/pulses. Also, if they collectively poo-poo the idea, it will save you the time and effort in advance of play.
Don't overlook the Heal skill during "camp time". Adding bonuses to deal with diseases, parasitic infestations (outright removal without requiring a single spell) and certain poisons helps everyone. Getting more hp out of a night's rest can make the difference in how minty fresh everyone is the next morning. Combine with the aforementioned Fast Healing feat for extra fun.
Real life(not theorycraft) experience:
I am sure I have told this before, but myself and a GM who was a good player finally got to play together. Another friend made a heal focused cleric. His idea was to heal us during the fights while he beat up on monsters in Shackled City. He insisted that healing up would keep him happy to which I told him we would likely not need healing. Having played through shackled city to some extent he thought even one heal a round would be ok.
We basically owned most combats, and maybe needed to be touched up every 3rd or 4th fight. I could see the annoyance on his face as he asked us repeatedly "Do you need a heal/cure". Most of the time we replied with "we took no damage". Other times it was "we are only scratched" or something similar.
OP if you are reading this Shackled City was on of the more dangerous published adventures in 3.5.
If your group routinely gets beat up then you may get more use out of the heals, but you would be better off being proactive, even if it is with buff spells.
If the group plays well together it is possible that they will almost never take substantial damage from just one fight.
PS: That story is just a warning of possible things to come.
Being versatile is always a plus. Excelling at healing doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't do anything else. Even something as basic as using the Aid Another action can help out the melees, especially if they are taking penalties from using Power Attack or Combat Expertise, or trying something hard, like tripping a Large and/or multi-legged creature.
Completely seconded on the "Have another string to your bow" comments from SmiloDan, wraithstrike & Turin. If no-one has taken damage, or is only trivially hurt, what can you do?
Buffing is a good option early on, and Clerics get some good ones. Summoning is another thing that clerics can excel at with a bit of investment - Sacred Summons being especially potent. Battlefield control or debuffing are not as strong for clerics, but still bear consideration and can be effective. Even just swinging a mace can be a good choice.
As a cleric you're always going to be pretty good at healing, even with minimal resource investment (stats/domains/gear/feats etc). Dedicating extra toward it reaches diminishing returns fast - you can only heal as much damage has come in. Spending a couple of feats elsewhere can make you an awesome Summoner/Buffer/Damage dealer who can *also* heal.
If you invest in heavy armor proficiency, you can get a great AC. I like to intentionally provoke AoOs sometimes so my allies can avoid them. Not as effective against foes with Combat Reflexes, but it can be an oddly effective tactic.
I also like counterspelling and stuff like that.
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Heal only clerics are a hoot to play. i love to cast bless, prayer, etc. on the party. Heroes feast is awesome. Communal delay poison is great. Memorize a bunch of Grace spells to walk around without AoOs. Take the skill unlock feat from unchained to boost your diplomacy (Or some other diplomacy feat so you can be party face).