Scout underground chemist the bomber talent and with vital strike line of feats.
Move 10 feet throw a bomb that does sneak attack x 3 (x4/x5) damage.
Ok I checked it out. Really like the alchemy rogue combination. But... after throwing a bomb or 3, which already is a big investment (Int: 16)
you'll be stuck with a rogue with the vital strike line of feats.
An almost completely insane dual cursed Oracle NPC focused on healing that tags along would not only be merciful but kinda fun as well (ymmv).
Allowing the more build-challenged in the group to retrain talents and feats would help. It is absurdly easy to build an almost useless Rogue, and that mechanic might ease intraParty power imbalance while allowing for the newer players to make their own choices.
Scout underground chemist the bomber talent and with vital strike line of feats.
Move 10 feet throw a bomb that does sneak attack x 3 (x4/x5) damage.
Ok I checked it out. Really like the alchemy rogue combination. But... after throwing a bomb or 3, which already is a big investment (Int: 16)
you'll be stuck with a rogue with the vital strike line of feats.
Yeah it is high investment but you miss the fact you have a rogue that can now sneak attack with touch attacks by moving 10 feet, so vital strike isn't as bad in this case. Get 2d4 weapons and deal 4~6d4+5d6 damage a go. You are a party of rogues your damage will be comparable. Also extra bombs will help. Be the high intelligence rogue take amatuer investigator and the studied combat feats that go with it. Consider the minor and major magic talents and such.
So... this isn't an April fool's thread?
Nope! I'm sincerely looking at making my players try a whole party of rogues in the future. Not the near future, but when the time comes I want them to be prepared and have a lot of helpful ideas.
It's also a nice exercise in seeing what you CAN do with an all-Rogue party.
Yeah it is high investment but you miss the fact you have a rogue that can now sneak attack with touch attacks by moving 10 feet, so vital strike isn't as bad in this case. Get 2d4 weapons and deal 4~6d4+5d6 damage a go. You are a party of rogues your damage will be comparable. Also extra bombs will help. Be the high intelligence rogue take amatuer investigator and the studied combat feats that go with it. Consider the minor and major magic talents and such.Scout underground chemist the bomber talent and with vital strike line of feats.
Move 10 feet throw a bomb that does sneak attack x 3 (x4/x5) damage.
Ok I checked it out. Really like the alchemy rogue combination. But... after throwing a bomb or 3, which already is a big investment (Int: 16)
you'll be stuck with a rogue with the vital strike line of feats.
I think it would be good to get some actual alchemical equipment for use with this. It would make the Rogue bomber very, very interesting.
Shard Gel could be interesting. There's probably better weapon choices on that page, but some of them detonate AFTER the first round.
Yeah you would be looking at your battle field control here with damage thrown on to boot.
Okay. I have a lot of ideas here. I'm going to save this page and show it to my players when I start that campaign.
Consider me satisfied with your responses, guys. You folks responded very quickly and with a lot of interesting ideas. I don't need any more help, but you obviously can still post ideas here if you wish, etc.
EDIT: I'm very tempted to try out a vital striking fuse grenade throwing rogue in an ordinary campaign myself. Or shard gel. Or... a lot of stuff. That... just looks fun.
EDIT 2: Probably going to give these players Solo Tactics at level 3 along with Teamwork feats for free at 3, 5, 10, 15, and 20.
On thing worth mentioning is that Catfolk have access to a rogue talent called "Vicious Claws". It's real handy because it bumps their sneak attack damage (with claws) to d8s. This lets them skip the Knife Master archetype and frees up other options. If you let them pick up a ring of rat fangs they can get three attacks per turn without having to invest in the TWF feats, again, opening up options. Tengu can start with 3 natural attacks too, which makes them a pretty attractive option for builds that don't want to spend the archetype on knife master or the feats on TWF.
Now that Unchained is out the combinations increase. The Unchained rogue is a straight upgrade, adding Dex to hit/damage and becoming a reliable debuffer.
If you are still considering this idea, Inlaa, I would suggest looking at Variant Multiclassing, which would broaden the character creation without losing on the roguishness.
Examples of VMC rogues:
-The arcane fiddler: Rogue Eldritch Raider + Counterfeit Mage with Magus VMC. One arcana and at level 11 potentially sneak attacking with Spellstrike (wand wielder?).
-The AOEr or "swarms aaaargh!": Underground Chemist + VMC Alchemist. 7th level alchemist bombs + int damage, better than the bomber talent. Take Bomber Discovery for Dispelling bombs, etc. Remember to take Admixtures for double int to damage.
-The face and skills: Rogue with VMC bard. Bardic knowledge for the skills and performance...which is amazing because we're all rogues wanting to hit stuff.
Some party coordination tactics:
-Several Eldritch Raiders casting fireballs amongst themselves from stealth...about 4 fireballs, and all have Evasion. Dancing and murdering amongst the flames, good times.
-All rogues with VMC Oracle, flame gaze/water sight. Obscuring mist, all the rogues can see, enemies cannot. Sneak attack galore. This is from a popular rogue multiclass build.
-Charging Stampede. All Scouts with the charging teamwork feats.
Considerations:
- For combat...Swarms, DR, traps, Incorporeals, Access to Dispels, Ranged vs Melee, Damage soaking, Damage evasion (mirror images).
- For social...the rogues have most of this covered.
- Stealth. Use it to prepare for battle, using consumables and good strategy. (apart from the "We're all scouts? Oh..CHARGE HIM! splat")
Intimidate from Unchained skills is extremely powerful now, personally I do not enjoy it but worth mentioning.
My deal party
- Melee frontliner. Dex>Con>Wis>Rest. I would consider a ninja for Mirror Images. Or a Scroll Scoundrel Mongoose/Snake/Panther as described earlier by others. Feats: Teamwork, Feints.
- Melee support + Arcane/Divine: Counterfeit Mage Eldrith Raider, versatile for problem solving or specific combat situations (up to lvl 3 spells). Decent at melee and gets Arcane Pool. Can focus on Dex solely. Feats: Teamwork (Outflank, Feints).
- AOE, skills: Underground Chemist as described above. Combine with Scout as detailed earlier in this thread. Int>Dex>rest. Our trapspotter. Feats: Teamwork, TWF. +Bomber Discovery: dispelling bombs.
- Buffer and face skills: Rogue Eldritch Raider VMC bard. Charisma>Dex>rest. Feats: Teamwork. Divine Protection (when casting 2nd level spells from rogue talents, adding CHA to saves, our weakness as rogues, he should carry plenty Dispel Magic scrolls to get the ones that fail rolls out of trouble).
Teamwork feats being: Outflank, Paired Opportunists, Feint Partner, Improved Feint Partner.
Consider Butterfly Sting if one's using high crit ranges.
Use stealth and if ambushed attempt to become invisible and gather or buff.
For building thieves guilds adapt the yakuza gang rules by Rite Publishing.
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Ok:
1. The Monastery Renagade. Scout Rogue. Take Ninja Tricks to get Unarmed Combat Training, and then the Ninja Master Trick Unarmed Combat Mastery. Take Pummeling Style and Pummeling Charge as style feats. A bit of a late bloomer - level 12? -, but when it comes online, he's charging and sneak attacking every single round.
2. The Pistolero. Rake/Bandit works well. Build is complex and requires Human, but playstyle is simple - shoot with your gun, spend Grit points to twirl it and feint as a swift action every round, allowing you to attack AC10 for sneak attack! Below is a walkthrough every level:
** spoiler omitted **
3. The Muscle. Thug/Bandit. Build up that intimidating power with the class features plus the likes of Dazzling Display, Intimidating Prowess (can be taken as a Rogue talent but I recommend taking it on 1st level), Shatter Defenses to ensure sneak attacks, Disheartening Display to empower demoralizes, and then perhaps you want Violent Display (if you can somehow justify associating with weretiger skinwalkers/play as a weretiger skinwalker) to use Dazzling Display as a swift action on the surprise round. Build high STR and really consider that Medium Armor.
4. The Shadow Blade. Sczarni Swindler archetype. Good charisma, probably use Fencing Grace or Dervish Dance. What you want here is build up to Eldritch Heritage (Shadow) and Improved Eldritch Heritage Shadow. That will grant Hide in Plain Sight by level 11th and some nifty powers. Pick up Underhanded as a Rogue talent, enjoy dealing sneak attacks with your magical nonlethal touch attack no one can see coming...
How do you feint as a swift action with your Pistolero build?
That liquid sword is giving me so many ideas, pack it with silver powder for instant were-folk weapon, holy balm for unexpected fights against undead. QOh I am so excited.
Are you allowing firearms?