In Pathfinder, I'd have to go with blaster. My favorite druid was my 3.5 Master of Many Forms though. Sadly, the full on shapeshifting druid (that loses all casting growth) is not a thing of Pathfinder. I'd like to see a more powerful version of the wildshaper. Something crossing a fighter with a druid's wildshape. Maybe there's one out there, but I can't find it.
In Pathfinder, I'd have to go with blaster. My favorite druid was my 3.5 Master of Many Forms though. Sadly, the full on shapeshifting druid (that loses all casting growth) is not a thing of Pathfinder. I'd like to see a more powerful version of the wildshaper. Something crossing a fighter with a druid's wildshape. Maybe there's one out there, but I can't find it.
I would like to see that too...
I dont think druids actually make good blasters do they? They have a relatively limited selection of blasting spells, and virtually nothing that adds to it. What options actually help a druid blaster?
I dont think druids actually make good blasters do they? They have a relatively limited selection of blasting spells, and virtually nothing that adds to it. What options actually help a druid blaster?
Well, domains for one. They could just grab the fire domain and grab all the usual culprits.
But helping blasting spells directly? No, not really as far as I am aware. They can turn into elementals though, which can be a massive defensive boost. A wind elemental with flight, bonus to dex and natural armor, and DR5/- seems like it would be rather nice for a caster, no?
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Well, a 1 level dip in sorcerer gives +1damage per die :3 thanks to orc. If you go cross blooded you can take an elemental bloodline as well to shift between two elements.
One thing about blaster druid spells I've seen though, is over half come with built in debuffs. And some can't be saved against or function if saved or not.
I dont think druids actually make good blasters do they? They have a relatively limited selection of blasting spells, and virtually nothing that adds to it. What options actually help a druid blaster?Well, domains for one. They could just grab the fire domain and grab all the usual culprits.
But helping blasting spells directly? No, not really as far as I am aware. They can turn into elementals though, which can be a massive defensive boost. A wind elemental with flight, bonus to dex and natural armor, and DR5/- seems like it would be rather nice for a caster, no?
I mean sure, those buffs are great, but they dont really make you a good blaster. And yes with domains you can pick up a few blast spells, but still, all your class abilities tend in a different direction. You are sort of fighting the tide instead of going with it. Blasting in and of itself isnt particularly effective unless you focus on it, and the druid doesnt really give you any options to do that. Yes you can multiclass to get the damage boost, but just doesnt seem worthwhile to me. If you want to be a blaster, play a class that is good at blasting. That isnt really the druid.
I mean sure, those buffs are great, but they dont really make you a good blaster. And yes with domains you can pick up a few blast spells, but still, all your class abilities tend in a different direction. You are sort of fighting the tide instead of going with it. Blasting in and of itself isnt particularly effective unless you focus on it, and the druid doesnt really give you any options to do that. Yes you can multiclass to get the damage boost, but just doesnt seem worthwhile to me. If you want to be a blaster, play a class that is good at blasting. That isnt really the druid.I dont think druids actually make good blasters do they? They have a relatively limited selection of blasting spells, and virtually nothing that adds to it. What options actually help a druid blaster?Well, domains for one. They could just grab the fire domain and grab all the usual culprits.
But helping blasting spells directly? No, not really as far as I am aware. They can turn into elementals though, which can be a massive defensive boost. A wind elemental with flight, bonus to dex and natural armor, and DR5/- seems like it would be rather nice for a caster, no?
True, a druid should typically focus on spells with more battlefield control aspects and other tricks.
Luckily, the base druid list has plenty of options that do both. Various things that change the terrain after the initial hit, or things like ice spears that hits big things hard and does fairly good trip attempts
I also like the caster druid as more of a controller with fogs, entangle, wall of thorns, summons, ice spears and so on. With that kind of caster it's worth considering the Caves domain to get pit spells which are some of the best control spells around, especially in conjunction with other spells at your disposal.
Druids tend to be a bit feat starved with natural spell and in most cases wild speech being your 5th and 7th level feats. But Cave domain gives you some nice conjuration spells that synergies well with spell focus: conjuration leading into augment summoning, superior summoning and so on
I also like the caster druid as more of a controller with fogs, entangle, wall of thorns, summons, ice spears and so on. With that kind of caster it's worth considering the Caves domain to get pit spells which are some of the best control spells around, especially in conjunction with other spells at your disposal.
Druids tend to be a bit feat starved with natural spell and in most cases wild speech being your 5th and 7th level feats. But Cave domain gives you some nice conjuration spells that synergies well with spell focus: conjuration leading into augment summoning, superior summoning and so on
Well, being feat starved depend on whether you are going for the normal builds.
As I mentioned, turning elemental is a huge defensive buff. And the interesting thing about them is that they have a language, and they can have humanoid forms (as mentioned by their subtype, talking about weapon proficiencies). So by all rights, it appears that you can cast normally without the feats if you stick with elementals.
That sacrifices a lot of the usual versatility of wildshape, of course. So you have to make the decision yourself what forms you are going to stick with and whether the trade off for metamagics is worth it.
Sadly, the full on shapeshifting druid (that loses all casting growth) is not a thing of Pathfinder.
You take 4 levels of Druid, the shaping focus feat, and then as many levels of invulnerable rager barbarian as you can. It's stupidly powerful. It has the wildshape of an 8th level druid which covers pretty much all your bases, and the morale and size bonuses of rage and wild shape stack. You also get pounce and rake for free.
20 pt buy
Elf Druid
Str = 14 - Power attack
Dex 14 + 2 = 16 - Deadly aim and +3 ac
Con 12 -2 = 10 - elf only real weakness
Int 12 +2 = 14
Wis 15 = 15 - druid min
Cha 9 = 9 ( only if you not into having pets, and want domains ).
Elf class skill = + 1/3 bonus to wild shape AC per favorite class.
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Dwarf druid 20 point buy
Str = 14 - power attack
Dex = 14 - for ac
Con = 14 + 2 = 16 = Dwarf greatest accesset Bonus Hp at each level. +3 per
Int = 10 = 10
Wis = 14 + 2 = 16 - For casting spells Druid
Cha = 10 - 2 = 8 (again only for non pet users who perfer domains).
plus to Wisdom at 4, 8, 12, 16 levels for more bonus spells and will save.
Dwarf main benefit = great starting Wisdom, but were they really shine is in the Con department with +3 hp per level, for +30 hp by level 10. Combine this with +1 hp favorite class and take Toughness at 1st level and they would have + 50 hp by level 10 (( +100 hp by level 20)). And that does help at low to mid levels.
If the choice is blaster or melee i would go melee every time. You get to be a Master of several maneuvers and can be a reach monster, close to the best AC in the game along with full Spell casting and a list made to support a natural weapon user.
I like the half orc for falchion at low levels, +2 to one stat( strength) and a favored class option that will end up giving +6 to AC.
Fighter's better offensively. You can use the fighter only feat martial versatility to apply feral combat training to all attacks and feral combat training applies anything that boosts unarmed strike to your natural attacks. Once you have 26 polymorphed strength dragon style is better than rage and at 30 it's better than greater rage. It's not like you need to get pounce from rage powers. You have to be human, but polymorphs throw away the best things about nonhumans anyways.Sadly, the full on shapeshifting druid (that loses all casting growth) is not a thing of Pathfinder.You take 4 levels of Druid, the shaping focus feat, and then as many levels of invulnerable rager barbarian as you can. It's stupidly powerful. It has the wildshape of an 8th level druid which covers pretty much all your bases, and the morale and size bonuses of rage and wild shape stack. You also get pounce and rake for free.
Sadly feral combat training is for one kind of natural attack. And how high do you need str to beat the strong jaw Spell? I agree that there are merits in dipping, figther monk or barbarian, or slayer for that matter but it should be to make some sort of trick work since Druid self buffing is strong.
Edit: Martial versatility i missed that, clever! Martial artist monk or brawler is also a good option then, if dipping is your thing.
Casting comes online faster than wildshape for a druid
While this is true - you have no wildshape abilities at all for three levels - a druid with maxed out physical stats can make a competent melee fighter (with an animal companion and some utility spells) during this time.
Casting comes online faster than wildshape for a druidWhile this is true - you have no wildshape abilities at all for three levels - a druid with maxed out physical stats can make a competent melee fighter (with an animal companion and some utility spells) during this time.
and what kind of casting can a blaster druid do at the low levels anyway?
Fighter's better offensively. You can use the fighter only feat martial versatility to apply feral combat training to all attacks and feral combat training applies anything that boosts unarmed strike to your natural attacks. Once you have 26 polymorphed strength dragon style is better than rage and at 30 it's better than greater rage. It's not like you need to get pounce from rage powers. You have to be human, but polymorphs throw away the best things about nonhumans anyways.
I'd argue that with the combination of superstition and witch hunter a barbarian gets a pretty big boost to damage against anything with spells or SLAs, which are both common. Also, he has stupidly high saves compared to the fighter (although he can't accept friendly buffs willingly).
That said, when I play a druid, I always play controller with blasts as a backup. The beauty of the class is that many of its control spells do damage too, so you can play offense in a couple different ways.
and what kind of casting can a blaster druid do at the low levels anyway?Casting comes online faster than wildshape for a druidWhile this is true - you have no wildshape abilities at all for three levels - a druid with maxed out physical stats can make a competent melee fighter (with an animal companion and some utility spells) during this time.
Snowball (also staggers), flurry of snow balls, thundercloud, flame sphere, flame strike, etc., etc.
But as always, their spell list seems more about control than direct damage. So there are plenty of debilitating spells they get early on.
and what kind of casting can a blaster druid do at the low levels anyway?Casting comes online faster than wildshape for a druidWhile this is true - you have no wildshape abilities at all for three levels - a druid with maxed out physical stats can make a competent melee fighter (with an animal companion and some utility spells) during this time.Snowball (also staggers), flurry of snow balls, thundercloud, flame sphere, flame strike, etc., etc.
But as always, their spell list seems more about control than direct damage. So there are plenty of debilitating spells they get early on.
I was actually thinking about this a bit. Snowball if allowed definately amps up the druids blasting ability. I would almost certainly take magical lineage with it, and just make snowball your go to spell until significantly later in levels. Ofcourse many people arent a fan of snowball, since its better then other low level blasting spells by a significant margin, but then again, I think thats probably ok since blasting is on the weak side of casting anyway.
I was actually thinking about this a bit. Snowball if allowed definately amps up the druids blasting ability. I would almost certainly take magical lineage with it, and just make snowball your go to spell until significantly later in levels. Ofcourse many people arent a fan of snowball, since its better then other low level blasting spells by a significant margin, but then again, I think thats probably ok since blasting is on the weak side of casting anyway.and what kind of casting can a blaster druid do at the low levels anyway?Casting comes online faster than wildshape for a druidWhile this is true - you have no wildshape abilities at all for three levels - a druid with maxed out physical stats can make a competent melee fighter (with an animal companion and some utility spells) during this time.Snowball (also staggers), flurry of snow balls, thundercloud, flame sphere, flame strike, etc., etc.
But as always, their spell list seems more about control than direct damage. So there are plenty of debilitating spells they get early on.
And there is a certain degree of fun turning yourself into a blizzard, being an air elemental throwing snowballs, grabbing with frigid touches, stabbing with ice spears, and the like.
You can do decent damage and get a lot of conditions in, and all while going with a theme.
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I was actually thinking about this a bit. Snowball if allowed definately amps up the druids blasting ability. I would almost certainly take magical lineage with it, and just make snowball your go to spell until significantly later in levels. Ofcourse many people arent a fan of snowball, since its better then other low level blasting spells by a significant margin, but then again, I think thats probably ok since blasting is on the weak side of casting anyway.and what kind of casting can a blaster druid do at the low levels anyway?Casting comes online faster than wildshape for a druidWhile this is true - you have no wildshape abilities at all for three levels - a druid with maxed out physical stats can make a competent melee fighter (with an animal companion and some utility spells) during this time.Snowball (also staggers), flurry of snow balls, thundercloud, flame sphere, flame strike, etc., etc.
But as always, their spell list seems more about control than direct damage. So there are plenty of debilitating spells they get early on.
And there is a certain degree of fun turning yourself into a blizzard, being an air elemental throwing snowballs, grabbing with frigid touches, stabbing with ice spears, and the like.
You can do decent damage and get a lot of conditions in, and all while going with a theme.
Just don't ruin it with an Arnold Schwarzenegger accent and ice puns.
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Just don't ruin it with an Arnold Schwarzenegger accent and ice puns.
Ruin it?
Man, all my armors have nipples. I don't know why you trippin'.
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Druid spells that deal damage:
Level 1: Firebelly, Frostbite, Mighty Fist of the Earth, Nauseating Dart, Produce Flame.
Level 2: Aggressive Thundercloud, Burning Gaze, Fire Trap, Flame Blade, Flaming Sphere, Fury of the Sun, Gusting Sphere, Heat/Chill Metal, Stone Call, Stone Discus, Tar Ball
Level 3: Air Geyser, Burst of Nettles, Call Lightning, Ice Spear, Raging Rubble, Vengeful Comets
Level 4: Aggressive Thundercloud (greater), Ball Lightning, Blast Barrier, Explosion of Rot, Flame Strike, Flaming Sphere (greater), Geyser, Ice Storm, Spike Stones, Volcanic Storm
It's late, so I won't go through every level, but there's plenty here to have fun with. Besides, most blasters I've seen metamagic the hell out of their spells, so the lower levels ones can easily be the most important ones you know.
Granted, several of these spells seem to deal damage as an afterthought to their primary purpose of debuffing, but that just means you've got options. You also have all three saves covered, allowing you to target whichever one seems appropriate.
and what kind of casting can a blaster druid do at the low levels anyway?Casting comes online faster than wildshape for a druidWhile this is true - you have no wildshape abilities at all for three levels - a druid with maxed out physical stats can make a competent melee fighter (with an animal companion and some utility spells) during this time.Snowball (also staggers), flurry of snow balls, thundercloud, flame sphere, flame strike, etc., etc.
But as always, their spell list seems more about control than direct damage. So there are plenty of debilitating spells they get early on.
Yes snowball is good, IMOP it is also a posterchild of how not to ad new material to a game. But without People of the North, low level druids are hardly Blasters, by any measure. And even with it they are nothing special. I also Think druid Can be a exelent controller but this was blaster or melee.
I have yet to see a build or hear a story that backs up the blaster druid as being in division with the good blasters of the game. But melee druids they are every where and not only one specialized build but lots of different ones.Show me a blaster druid built that is relevant from 1-12 and i Will reconsider my stand.
Druid spells that deal damage:
Level 1: Firebelly, Frostbite, Mighty Fist of the Earth, Nauseating Dart, Produce Flame.
Level 2: Aggressive Thundercloud, Burning Gaze, Fire Trap, Flame Blade, Flaming Sphere, Fury of the Sun, Gusting Sphere, Heat/Chill Metal, Stone Call, Stone Discus, Tar Ball
Level 3: Air Geyser, Burst of Nettles, Call Lightning, Ice Spear, Raging Rubble, Vengeful Comets
Level 4: Aggressive Thundercloud (greater), Ball Lightning, Blast Barrier, Explosion of Rot, Flame Strike, Flaming Sphere (greater), Geyser, Ice Storm, Spike Stones, Volcanic Storm
It's late, so I won't go through every level, but there's plenty here to have fun with. Besides, most blasters I've seen metamagic the hell out of their spells, so the lower levels ones can easily be the most important ones you know.
Granted, several of these spells seem to deal damage as an afterthought to their primary purpose of debuffing, but that just means you've got options. You also have all three saves covered, allowing you to target whichever one seems appropriate.
Yes there are some ok spells here but to make a blaster you need more than ok spells. How will these spells be used in a normal encounter? Is it gonna be on par with other damage dealers? And for this discussion how will it look compared to a huge pouncing dinosaur?
druid spells arent for damage.
they CAN do damage, but not meant to.my caster druid build, saurian shaman, level 12 is...nothing short of supreman.
animal comapnion = trex.trait: frostbite spell for better metafeats & intimidate as class skill.
1- school focus, enforcer
3- augument summoning
5- natural spell
7- rime spell
9 - power attack or vital strike (B), & quick wild shape
11 - planar wild shape OR wild speech OR divine interference
13 - superior summoning ,power attack or vital strike (B)spells& tactics:
levels 1-4: with str of 14, scimitar and shield and some spells you arent great, but not bad either.
lvl 5-6: wild wild shape into a raptor, and summon as standard action you now a force to be feared.
lvl 7 : trex is now large, and a grab killing machine.spells:
rimed, enforcer frost bite, each attack, no save, foe is shaken& entangled & fatigue. no need to kill, he will kill himself.summon, summon, summon.... flood the battle field, learn rarely used spells and trade them, your dinos can fly, swim and reach.
buff all allies, barkskin, feather step and much more. cure light wounds etc.
But the question asked here was blaster or melee. You seem to be on the melee team?
I hate to say it, but I am on the Melee side, till level 12 plus, and then after that changes over to caster side.
Why: number of spell slots. You really do not have that many ( unless your doing an just 1-2 encounters, and then back to home to sleep for the night ). When at low levels.
Also action economy. Spell require = Concentration check to get off, saving throw to effect, spell resistance to get throw, spell immunity or resistance to penetrate. Not to mention that they trigger two Attack of Opportunity most of the time, one to cast, one as a range attack.
vs
Melee = AC get throw to do = 2d4 damage Scythe, pick up Power Attack at level 3 for +3 damage and -1 to hit (6th level +6 damage and -2 to hit, 11th level +9 damage and -3 to hit, 16th level +12 damage and -4 to hit) == this assuming your using the two-handed Scythe throwout ==
Pick up Vital strike at level 9 to up the base damage to 4d4 damage, and Improved vital strike at level 15 for 6d4 damage.
As someone mention earlier, you need a minimum of 14 Strength ( otherwise +1 get round down), but +2 to hid/damage will get up to +3 when using a two-handed weapon like Scythe or IF you only get one Primary Natural attack like Bite (sometime).
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9th level: 4d4 (with Vital Strike) + (power attack +6 damage -2 to hit), ( str bonus +3 damage +2 to hit ) = 4d4 + 9 damage one per round with Scythe,
12 level huge Earth Elemental (base 14 str) : 4d8 slam attack (with vital strike ) + (power attack +6 damage -3 to hit), (Str bonus +5 at 20str or +7 at 24str with Quicken bull strenght to hit/damage)
= 4d8 + 11/+13 damage at +2/+4 to hit once per round
OR 2d8 +11/+13 damage at +2/+4 to hit once per round with 9 BAB and 4 BAB per round with a full round attack.
If you think you can hit the creature a second time with such a low BAB (very by critter).
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After 12th level, you have lot more spell slots to play around with, and lots of cool spells with cool spell effects, that you might perfer standing back and casting..
put many game do not seam to last past level 12, when you get the cool spells... and it is a long way to level 12... so you might want to go Melee rough for those first 12 levels.