felinoel's page

felinoel wrote:

Now onto the issue of monsters, am I allowed to instruct where to find stats?

Something along the lines of:

4 orcs (See "book title" page 42)

I am POSITIVE this will be a no when using this below but I wanted to check.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/compatibility

The usual format is:

DIRE SHARK CR 9
XP 6,400
hp 112 (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary "Shark, Dire")

Then any notes on modifications. For example, maybe the Dire Shark currently has 82 hit points instead of 112 - you'd probably add a note about how and why it's weakened (with the HP being used put up in the stat block).

The CR is sometimes all the way to the right, but I don't think I can code that here. I think it's usually best to avoid page numbers, in case they change between printings of the book or something.

Yeah that is the usual format, but I wanted to be sure it was fine.

Now onto the issue of monsters, am I allowed to instruct where to find stats?

Something along the lines of:

4 orcs (See "book title" page 42)

I am POSITIVE this will be a no when using this below but I wanted to check.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/compatibility

felinoel wrote:

Marc Radle wrote:

felinoel wrote:

Marc Radle wrote:

Felinoel, are you trying to make something to sell or just to put out there for fun? As has already been pointed out, that really determines what set of rules (i.e which license) you need to stick to.

I don't know.

Selling it wouldn't generate too much money but it would be fun to do.

The campaign is intended for Pathfinder and I want to use the PFS logo on the inside cover or somewhere to denote that. What can I do that keeps that logo?

You can't use the PFS logo in any way. PFS is only for adventures officially released by Paizo as a Pathfinder Society adventure.

You're saying then that no mention of the name Pathfinder would ever be able to be added in any way whatsoever to denote that the campaign was intended to be played with the Pathfinder game system?

I think you are confusing some fundamental issues and terms ...

PFS (the abbreviation you used in your above post) stands for Pathfinder Society, Paizo's official organized play program. You, as an individual, cannot use the PFS logo or name, period.

As others have explained, you CAN use the Pathfinder RPG compatible logo if you publish using the OGL (Open Game License) and the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Compatibility License. Doing so allows you to sell your product, but you may NOT use any Paizo IP (intelectual property, such as proper name, place names etc. This would include Akiton). This is what Third Party companies (3PP) do.

You can INSTEAD, opt to release your product under the Community Use Policy, which is essential the 'fan-made' option. Going this route allows you to use Paizo IP (so you COULD use terms like Akiton) but you CANNOT sell your product.

Does that clear things up at all?

I only wrote PFS because I was typing a response on my phone at the time and wanted to shorten it to make it easier, yes that was a mistake to say.

How do I use the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Compatibility License?
Just post that in the book or do I need to do more?

felinoel wrote:

Marc Radle wrote:

Felinoel, are you trying to make something to sell or just to put out there for fun? As has already been pointed out, that really determines what set of rules (i.e which license) you need to stick to.

I don't know.

Selling it wouldn't generate too much money but it would be fun to do.

The campaign is intended for Pathfinder and I want to use the PFS logo on the inside cover or somewhere to denote that. What can I do that keeps that logo?

You can't use the PFS logo in any way. PFS is only for adventures officially released by Paizo as a Pathfinder Society adventure.

You're saying then that no mention of the name Pathfinder would ever be able to be added in any way whatsoever to denote that the campaign was intended to be played with the Pathfinder game system?

Here's the thing: How close do you want to be Paizo's material do you want to be? Don't answer that just yet. Before I am done, you will probably find that this answer is different than you currently think. Ask yourself these questions:

[list]

Do you simply like the basic ideas that Paizo has put into the Akiton or do you absolutely love every single word they have published on the planet? To reduce it to a simple yes or not: Did you change anything, at all, no matter how tiny?

Nothing was changed but nothing was used. There is a Golarion settlement technically added but that gets destroyed and abandoned.

Did you add anything to it that Paizo did not create? Countries, towns, NPCs, mountains, ruins, etc? Anything?

Just the settlement and a nameless VC that may or may not get stats and a name but unless the players get lucky or are very good that VC dies.

Do you want to go beyond the campaign and also release additional sellables? Player's Guides, Campaign Setting material, Another campaign, anything?

It hadn't occurred to me, other than maybe something for the other planets too but not really in a series... ish?

Oh and don't mention Paizo's setting in any way. At all. Pretend it doesn't exist when you write. Use their writing as inspiration, in the same way I have a tactician archetype in the upcoming Advanced Wyrwoods where the player can throw a shield and it returns is clearly based on Captain America but never mentions the comics/movies ever.

The only thing currently named is Akiton but that apparently can't be named that.

A couple of years ago, there was a kickstarter for miniatures. The organizer ignored the advice that he was walking into legal troubles, and that he should talk to a lawyer. The end result was, as I recall, a court order to destroy all of the miniatures manufactured. The sculptor had to re-sculpt all of the miniatures because they were too plainly based on copyright art belonging to Wizards of the Coast. Even though he changed the names... "filing off the serial numbers".

Really... talk to a lawyer.

That is why I made this post, to see what I need to do.

Felinoel, are you trying to make something to sell or just to put out there for fun? As has already been pointed out, that really determines what set of rules (i.e which license) you need to stick to.

I don't know.

The campaign is intended for Pathfinder and I want to use the PFS logo on the inside cover or somewhere to denote that. What can I do that keeps that logo?

Maybe I will just call it the red planet and have a for DM's note to look up the name of the red planet in the setting they use?

I've got this whole scene where the players think they are going to a far away country but instead are fired off into space... the name is needed...

If Akiton is not allowed to be mentioned would I be allowed to say Akitan...?

idk if that would be allowed...

So a short while ago I wrote this nice campaign that I wanted to illustrate and publish but hit a snag when I read that third-party material is not allowed to mention any location in Golarion. Well not a snag, more of confusion?

My campaign is set on Akiton... am I... am I allowed to say that?
Akiton is not in Golarion but I understand that the intent was for specific named locations to not be allowed to be used... but would I be allowed to say the planet's name it is on?

I see... /:

Finally, how would you view this for an alchemist cat folk, given the rule?

As something that is redundant.

Deadly Scratch (Ex) A catfolk rogue with this talent can apply poison to her claws without accidentally poisoning herself. A catfolk rogue must have the cat's claws racial trait and the poison use class feature before taking this talent.

So, I assume that if you need this feat to apply poison to your claws as a catfolk without accidentally poisoning yourself, you cannot apply poison to natural weapons without occurring the poison chance.

But the character in question is an alchemist, who has the poison use ability, which is exactly like the above ability except it stops you from accidentally poisoning yourself for applying to any weapon.

So would that mean that it works fine for an alchemist too?

Right.

Drat, well is there any equivalent then, like how Boro Beads are an equivalent?

So since extracts aren't spells they won't work with spell storing... right?

Aha! And thus we find the root of the disconnect. Yes, every lot built in a settlement under the Kingdom rules increases the population of that settlement by 250.

As an abstraction, you're not necessarily building enough houses in a House lot for that number of people, since it will also include the builders, the guys who make roads, the odd small time greengrocer, and what have you, moving into the city to help service the people who do move into the houses that are built there.

That is a very different result than just building a few houses, and that's why building some houses independently of the 3 BP should not count as a House under the Kingdom rules.

Weird but ok.

Also there is a small population being convinced to leave their current homes of persecution and genocide so if those people move then yeah the player-built homes would count but otherwise I see why it wouldn't.

felinoel wrote:

Tacticslion wrote:

Cap. Darling wrote:

felinoel wrote:

Cap. Darling wrote:

Does it have to be magic. Buy some old ships and some rafts. Fill it all with dirt and rocks. And sink them where you want your island.

That WAS in fact considered, but would end up to be too much effort and too much gold.

There are several Islands out of the cost of Copenhagen that have been made that way one is even named after the biggest of the ships sunk to make it.

Trekroner fort. I am not really up to making a link but here is the URL to the wiki about it. It is pretty cool
was that really so hard? ;P

Then there is this which was made by buying a TON of dirt and shipping it out to sea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_%28archipelago%29

Battery Park City was made out of the original fill scooped out for the World Trade Center. I remember looking at it when it was just one big rectangle of land reclaimed from the Hudson River.

Oh, that is call.

@felinoel

We either have totally different views over kingdom-building and the game as a whole (since you looks like a rules lawyer to me), or you're playing devil's advocate just for fun, but anyway, here's how I view it.

Kingdom Building is a mini-game inside Pathfinder, and as such, uses resources that are different from the "base game". Although you can convert BPs in GP and the other way around (I personnally prohibited both transactions in my game), they're not the same things.

To me, the "Building a House lot" kingdom action is not the same as "paying for some houses" character action, unless you also recruit 250 settlers, build basic roads, find more city guards, organize new trade routes to get more food in the city... Because "Building a House lot" means developing your city in a way that encourages more citizens to come and live there. It represents the action not only of the PCs, but of the NPC administrators, of the local authorities, of the community in general, etc.

"The Kingdom" works to have the job done, and at the game table, "The Kingdom" is played by the players together in addition to their individual PCs, and "the Anti-Kingdom forces" (as well as the NPCs who oppose the kingdom) are played by the GM.

The two systems influence and complement one another, but they do not merge.

Wait... buying the house lot automatically convinces people to live in your town?!

I didn't realize that, ok if it automatically spawns people living in the houses too then it requiring X amount of gold/BP be spent makes sense.

Again - not saying that no one can use it. Rather, I'm saying I've had trouble with things like that in the past and others have as well. Hence it is more workable for more people the most part to create it as a url. That is all. :)

To that I say fie.

Well, unless you can build a single house on a square plot over 660 feet on a side (quarter of the area of one city block), then, yes, they should be worth BP.

Why does it have to be a single house? Why can't it be a series of houses?

Definitely let them build houses on their own, but until they spend around 12,000 GP doing so, don't let it count as a house for the purposes of the Kingdom rules.

Why? They are still houses, people can live in them, what makes them not houses unless they magically lose the additional gp it takes to spend a total of 12k?

The problem, in my opinion, is that your PCs seem to play like they are building contractors and see BPs as their own personal money.

I made clear with my players from Day 1 that BPs, while reprensenting some money and physical resources, also represent intangible things, such as ambitious merchants looking for opportunities, work force, political capital, etc.

So when they decide to build a "house" on one city square, they are not commissioning a team of builders to erect a single cottage. They are creating the political conditions that encourages new settlers to come to the kingdom and to build their houses using their own "private" resources, while merchants and experts use this opportunity for profit created by new citizens having needs for food, clothes, etc.

The leaders are not controlling the actions of every single person in their kingdom, but they have the means to influence the future of their realm, using BPs as leverage. But for the sake of simplicity in the mini-game (because that's what kingdom-building ultimately is), we pretend that they have complete control over the development of the kingdom.

I would agree with you on everything but houses, shops and whatnot yes that would require BP to fill but I just don't see houses as requiring BP...

felinoel wrote:

There is no need to add complex requirements that make no sense and have no basis on reality?

Of course - it's always up to the GM & their players...

All I was trying to say is that - unless you use the rules as a basis for
building, what's to stop your players from building a single cottage &
saying "Cool, we've just populated that block with 250 people..."

From now on in - up to you on how you run it.

The fact that that also isn't realistic and also is not 95 square feet of housing, unless that single cottage is 95 square feet.

Bingo...

..or at least that's the way I'd play it. Otherwise it's just far too easy to
game the system.

But it is your world, you own it.

There is no need to add complex requirements that make no sense and have no basis on reality?

I didn't do anything of the sort! Fie! Fie, I say!

(I made it into a url, and then clicked.)

((Also, your method doesn't always work for many, due to funny interactions with the forums and urls.))

Even with the space it seems to work for some reason?

The rules assume that a BP is worth more or less 4000gp. Since a "House" is not really a single house but a housing-focused neighbourhood, probably with some non-descript minor merchants (baker, butcher, etc.), the PCs would have to pay about 12,000gp out of their pockets to gain the same benefits.

In the same way, building "a Road" on a hex doesn't usually mean a single road crossing, but a complex network of transportation, with a main and well-maintained road and smaller roads leading to thorps, hamlets and farmlands (because approx. 200-250 people live in each hex...).

What Chuckbab said... :)

Plus - each square on the gridmap is what?...750ft per side or something? I forget.
That's a lot of 'houses'... :)

But specifically - by 'stump up' I meant front up with the moolah = cash baby!
:) 'stump up' is slang here for exactly that.

So - stumping up the BP worth of it = they pay the full amount of BP x 4000gp
to buy that with their own money...which as our more eloquent friend has
pointed out is 12,000gp for a 'house'...which isn't actually just one house.

So... even if the PCs built it themselves they would still have had to pay 12k to build it or they would have to pay whatever they didn't spend on the construction to make it count as a house hex?

felinoel wrote:

QuidEst wrote:

So... You took an extra planar being of beauty, grace, and freedom, and bound it in a body made of a fleshy tumor growing from you, in order to force it to play a music for hours withou rest, not for any appreciation of the music, but to spur on magical forces to build things for you? I don't think you qualify for a Lyrakien's alignment restrictions...

To be fair, it is only a figment of my imagination.

Oh, right. Forgot that bit! Good to go, I guess?

This line of discussion has me rolling on the floor due to the humor.

So... You took an extra planar being of beauty, grace, and freedom, and bound it in a body made of a fleshy tumor growing from you, in order to force it to play a music for hours withou rest, not for any appreciation of the music, but to spur on magical forces to build things for you? I don't think you qualify for a Lyrakien's alignment restrictions...

To be fair, it is only a figment of my imagination.

felinoel wrote:

Tacticslion wrote:

Cap. Darling wrote:

felinoel wrote:

Cap. Darling wrote:

Does it have to be magic. Buy some old ships and some rafts. Fill it all with dirt and rocks. And sink them where you want your island.

That WAS in fact considered, but would end up to be too much effort and too much gold.

There are several Islands out of the cost of Copenhagen that have been made that way one is even named after the biggest of the ships sunk to make it.

Trekroner fort. I am not really up to making a link but here is the URL to the wiki about it. It is pretty cool
was that really so hard? ;P

Then there is this which was made by buying a TON of dirt and shipping it out to sea.

... you're doing this on purpose, aren't you - AREN'T YOU?!

I purposefully made something you can highlight and drag to your URL to go to, yes?

Even if you take the overly restrictive interpretation of Tumor Familiar, you can do this with an Aberrant bloodline Sorc or Bloodrager and the Aberrant Tumor feat.

Personally, I think that hedgehog is the best Figment Tumor Familiar choice in terms of flavor. Make it a weird semi-real growth at the base of the neck. The +2 to will saves is a great fit for a dream parasite. As the familiar becomes more powerful, have it take over!

lol wow

Lyrakien is a little weirder there. Being a creature associated with music and art, maybe re fluff the tumor part and make it an inner muse or something?

I needed something to play a Lyre of Building and with its bonuses to perform as well as the eidelon evolution for additional bonuses for perform and the fact that eidelons don't sleep PLUS the whole listening to a Lyrekein removes tiredness?!?!?!? is perfect for continuous playing nonstop for like a week or more.

Cap. Darling wrote:

felinoel wrote:

Cap. Darling wrote:

Does it have to be magic. Buy some old ships and some rafts. Fill it all with dirt and rocks. And sink them where you want your island.

That WAS in fact considered, but would end up to be too much effort and too much gold.

There are several Islands out of the cost of Copenhagen that have been made that way one is even named after the biggest of the ships sunk to make it.

Trekroner fort. I am not really up to making a link but here is the URL to the wiki about it. It is pretty cool
was that really so hard? ;P

Then there is this which was made by buying a TON of dirt and shipping it out to sea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_%28archipelago%29

You should get a lyre of building, it will help with detail work.

As for the actual moving of the materiel most GMs will rule that work has to be done within hearing range of the music. A few hundred feet at most.

I'm convincing the DM that moving the materials would fall under using the lyre's 100 humans for 3 days' work, which is how I calculated I could move 50,000 pounds 75 miles in 22 hours.

I love Aelryinth's idea.

For this I am assuming CL 12 since that is the best we can do in PFS.

You will need circle about 178.4 feet in radius. That leads to circumferenceof roughly 1120 feet. That is 224 squares or 19 castings of wall of stone just to get 5 feet. Lets call it 60 castings to break the surface. This assumes that 3 inches of stone will hold back the water.

All in all that is only 20-30 days of casting if you do it all yourself.

If you have access to planar binding (6th level) then you should bind several Genies (Shaitan). Assuming you can get only 1 a day it takes only 6 days have the needed walls of stone in place. I would go to 9 days just to a better border.

An outsider can more between 200 and 250 tons in a single day.
You only need 150 outsider days to pull that off. With planer binding getting you 2 a day you can do that in 12 days. You will need a labor force to load and unload sacks of dirt.

That is definitely a good sounding method that would work if I can't get the DM to agree to the lyre of building for stone and Move Earth for dirt. I very likely will not be able to get him to agree to using the lyre for dirt since dirt isn't really a building material in his eyes even though the Inuit people totally used dirt as a building material... >.>

I just found the spyglass archon and accuser devil. You can get 3 TPers per planer binding.

It will only take 10 days to move the earth.

As far as I can tell the genies are your best bet to transmute the mud to rock. It will take 12 days for them to do that.

All this work as taken only 31 days and single 6th level spell. Since the genies will finish their task and still have time on their clocks you can probably save some time by reordering things a bit.

A few fea have control water at will. Just one will let you keep your project dry.

I will have to keep this in mind too then.

Dave Justus wrote:

Tumor familiar specifically says that it is based on the alchemist caster level. It seems pretty obvious to me that that applies to Improved Familiars as well, with the alchemist level being the caster level in question, just as Tumor Familiar says.

So I don't see any problem with a tumor familiar being an improved familiar, although it would probably have to be tiny or diminuative, just like any other tumor familiar.

Still missing the arcane part of "Arcane Spellcaster Level". Alchemists are neither arcane nor divine.

Tumor familiar specifically says that it is based on the alchemist caster level. It seems pretty obvious to me that that applies to Improved Familiars as well, with the alchemist level being the caster level in question, just as Tumor Familiar says.

So I don't see any problem with a tumor familiar being an improved familiar, although it would probably have to be tiny or diminuative, just like any other tumor familiar.

All that said - if my PCs wanted to build a block of whatever - I would let them,

but they'd have to stump up the BP worth of it. If they only wanted to pay the
price of one building of that particular type - I would let them, but they
wouldn't get the benefits of the whole district being dedicated to that...

I'm sorry but what does "stump up the BP worth of it" mean?

kay so if they did build the entire 12 mile length of the hex you would let them but not give them the benefits of the hex?

Okay! Let's use this thread to ask questions and get rulings for building kingdoms and cities using the rules in Pathfinder Adventure Path #32.

What stops players from ignoring the required BPs for building a house or making a road and just building it themselves?

There appears to be something in the rules for something SIMILAR to this, at the below link under Special Terrain there is info for how to deal with a hex that already has a building in it, would physically building a house or whatnot follow the same rules?

Building: The hex contains an abandoned building in good repair (type determined by the GM). If you establish a settlement at the building's location in the hex, you can incorporate the building into the settlement at no cost (this does not count toward your building limit for that turn).

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCampaign/kingdomsAndWar/ki ngdomTurnSequence.html

No it is most likely the Best thing for making foundations. But remember for the Price of one lyre you Can get 185 labore teams in the Down time rules.

I can make an extensive dungeon underwater and add dirt on top of that.

Also with the craft feat I get it for half the cost.

Regardless, Lyre of Building is the best route especially since I just reread the info on the item and it looks like I don't need to be anywhere near either the source material or the thing being built. It does say it only does the work of 100 human workers of three days in every thirty minutes to based on that I did the math and it would take 22 hours time and move 50,000 pounds of materials from the mountains to the town 75(ish) miles away but hey at least that just means one would have to wait another week to build with the materials.

Right?

roll4initiative wrote:

I would consider what BNF suggested. The Island vanity or Hunting Lodge vanity on a small island for flavor. Maybe even the Ship vanity which could be moored somewhere and used as a hidehout.

The vanities only allow purchases of property, not repititions of Aroden's stunts.

There is no spell effect that you can cast or obtain, short of a Wish or Miracle to get you what you want.

Except for the Lyre of Building.

Not sure what level your characters are but you might try Rampart (Druid, Soc/Wiz 7). Use a wall of force or stone to expose the surface under the water (unless the DM is generous and does not treat the water as an object) and cast it. Repeat as necessary.

This lyre of building seems my best route.

Kegdrainer wrote:

Not sure what level your characters are but you might try Rampart (Druid, Soc/Wiz 7). Use a wall of force or stone to expose the surface under the water (unless the DM is generous and does not treat the water as an object) and cast it. Repeat as necessary.

The Op isnt' just looking to make a spell effect, he wants to create significant real estate where there was nothing before. He just doesn't want a rock sticking out of water... he wants Staten Island.

Ooooh Staten Island would be nice.

felinoel wrote:

Cap. Darling wrote:

Does it have to be magic. Buy some old ships and some rafts. Fill it all with dirt and rocks. And sink them where you want your island.

That WAS in fact considered, but would end up to be too much effort and too much gold.

There are several Islands out of the cost of Copenhagen that have been made that way one is even named after the biggest of the ships sunk to make it.

Trekroner fort. I am not really up to making a link but here is the URL to the wiki about it. It is pretty cool
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trekroner_Fort

lol that is hilarious, wow.

Tumor familiar specifically says that it is based on the alchemist caster level. It seems pretty obvious to me that that applies to Improved Familiars as well, with the alchemist level being the caster level in question, just as Tumor Familiar says.

So I don't see any problem with a tumor familiar being an improved familiar, although it would probably have to be tiny or diminuative, just like any other tumor familiar.

Thankfully the Lyrakien is tiny, ha.

We do not need to use the Alchemist as the reference for the Tumor Familiar. "Aberrant Tumor" can be used to gain a Tumor Familiar as well.

If we now add one Level of Witch with the Animals Patron we are back on the Main Question here.

True, I mean my familiar is apparently not supposed to work but others' might?

Does it have to be magic. Buy some old ships and some rafts. Fill it all with dirt and rocks. And sink them where you want your island.

That WAS in fact considered, but would end up to be too much effort and too much gold.

Really? Lets check the context:

felinoel wrote:

25% success is not fine. :-)

First of all, I was joking, secondly I think you need to check your math, the only thing that needed a hotlink had one and therefore it was 100% success. ^-^)b

Dispel takes out #1. It does not take out #2 or #3.

/cevah

Regardless, Lyre of Building is the best route especially since I just reread the info on the item and it looks like I don't need to be anywhere near either the source material or the thing being built. It does say it only does the work of 100 human workers of three days in every thirty minutes to based on that I did the math and it would take 22 hours time and move 50,000 pounds of materials from the mountains to the town 75(ish) miles away but hey at least that just means one would have to wait another week to build with the materials.

Right?

Actually, looking at the tumor familiar, I'm not sure it's actually a familiar as the class option. I'm not saying it necessarily doesn't, but it could be like the Shaman's spirit animal that is not a familiar even though it functions like one. Improved familiar and figment may not be valid choices for it.

The wording is kinda fuzzy, though. I am not speaking with any kind of authority here.

I dunno... it is treated as a familiar and called a familiar, the tumor addon is just how the familiar is obtained for fluff purposes...

I don't know: how did you?

(Please describe your mechanical process; with links. I'm not following. Thanks!)

Ummm...? I took the tumor familiar Discovery, built it as a figment, then later took the Improved Familiar feat.

Improved Familiar isn't compatible with the Figment archetype in any case.

But other than that... best not to think about it too hard.

It isn't? Where do you see that?

Hypochondria. Really bad hypochondria.

lol this weirdly makes sense.

Shenanigans, that's how.

No shenanigans, it is totally legit, I think?

So I have an improved tumor figment familiar and it is a Lyrakien Azata.

Lyrakien Azatas are "divine musicians and messengers, mainly in the employ of deities of travel and natural wonders."

How do I have one that I grew from my body and is also a figment of my imagination?

USe Walls of Stone to outline the area you want to make your island in. Join them together in a water-tight seal.

Planar call in an Earth Elemental. Have him fill the area of the Walls of Stone to the brim with mud and muck. He's just shoving in sand and gravel and mud from outside the walls, underneath them, up into the area.

Alternatively, use Move Earth to do the same thing.

Once the inside of the area is full of mud, use Transmute Mud to Rock, Widened if possible. The area of effect is huge, and in a few days you'll have your island, as high above the waves as you wanted to make it. If you want to build it up to an impressive height, leave a hole in the middle leading down to the surrounding bay, and erect more containing Walls of Stone, have the earth elemental keep shoving up mud and muck, transmute it to stone when its high enough, rinse and repeat.

I personally suggest at least 40' above the surrounding water, but that's me, and 60' would be better.

Then apply Widened Stone Shapes to carve out your abode from the stone.

==Aelryinth

While this is a great idea (and I am definitely using Move Earth for the dirt), the lyre of building is my best bet because OK WTF WOW, I just reread the magic item and the 300 ft range was for protecting inanimate objects, NOT for obtaining materials. I could just stand in Absalon and let my familiar play and it brings the materials from one place to where I wanted to build my island.

felinoel wrote:

Dr Styx wrote:

clashing-rocks

How about this spell?

That seems too expensive.

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Well, if you're patient, there's always expeditious excavation. :P

lol that is too involved for me.

Cevah wrote:

1) Lower Water + Permanency

2) Several Wall of Stone spells made like a house of cards, then add dirt on top.
3) Craft Construct (colossal sized) of stone w/fly or water walk

/cevah

avr wrote:

If miracle can protect a city from a volcanic eruption, surely it could cause one? A cleric of Nethys might be the guy to ask.

Those seem like too much effort, Karpad is RIGHT next to the Mindspin Mountains, the south side of those mountains where nothing dangerous is, I will remove one of those mountains, turning the entire mountain into many of the below giant tricycles.

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THEN I will pay a couple of Karpad's lower class citizens (the fetchlings) 1sp/day (according to here) but I will see if making the fetchlings several stone homes of magnificence in exchange for most of the 1sp/day lol they already love me anyways.

Thoughts?

1) Learn to make links properly. [You too, Dr Styx.]

2) Lower Water + Permanency = 12 seconds. 300' Tricycle takes less effort?
3) As a fetchling merchant, I think you might have difficulty purchasing the equipment needed to make your toy. Might also be missing your purse to some of those...

I linked fine, see below:

THEN I will pay a couple of Karpad's lower class citizens (the fetchlings) 1sp/day (according to here)

Also dispel magic could destroy that and the Lyre of Building makes those trikes easily, even more easily now that I've swapped out my improved tumor figment familiar for a lyrekain and it has fluidic familiar as a feat which boosts its perform up well past the DC 15 requirement so my familiar can shape the stone for however long is needed.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/spells/clashingRocks.html#clash ing-rocks

How about this spell?

That seems too expensive.

Well, if you're patient, there's always expeditious excavation. :P

lol that is too involved for me.

1) Lower Water + Permanency

2) Several Wall of Stone spells made like a house of cards, then add dirt on top.
3) Craft Construct (colossal sized) of stone w/fly or water walk

/cevah

If miracle can protect a city from a volcanic eruption, surely it could cause one? A cleric of Nethys might be the guy to ask.

Those seem like too much effort, Karpad is RIGHT next to the Mindspin Mountains, the south side of those mountains where nothing dangerous is, I will remove one of those mountains, turning the entire mountain into many of the below giant tricycles.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/felinoel/DnD/Untitled-1b_zpsydyul0cm .png
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/felinoel/DnD/Untitled-2b_zpshu6exhwp .png
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/felinoel/DnD/Untitled-3b_zpsb6ppprgu .png

THEN I will pay a couple of Karpad's lower class citizens (the fetchlings) 1sp/day (according to here) but I will see if making the fetchlings several stone homes of magnificence in exchange for most of the 1sp/day lol they already love me anyways.

Thoughts?

master_marshmallow wrote:

What's the craziest stuff your players have tried to get you to allow?

Monkey Grip. It was a feat in one of the splat books that allowed you to wield weapons larger than normal or use a two-handed weapon one handed. It was always used so someone could cheese a dual-wielding Greatswords or Great Axes. Ugh.

Not really super-crazy, but it comes up EVERY FREAKING GAME FOR EVERY FREAKING CHARACTER...

lol wow I remember this!

Man those were some good times. xD

prd combat wrote:

Some full-round actions can be taken as standard actions, but only in situations when you are limited to performing only a standard action during your round. The descriptions of specific actions detail which actions allow this option.

prd combat wrote:

Restricted Activity: In some situations, you may be unable to take a full round's worth of actions. In such cases, you are restricted to taking only a single standard action or a single move action (plus free and swift actions as normal). You can't take a full-round action (though you can start or complete a full-round action by using a standard action; see below).

prd combat wrote:

Start/Complete Full-Round Action

The “start full-round action” standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. You can't use this action to start or complete a full attack, charge, run, or withdraw.

So player A can start undertaking a whirlwind attack in the surprise round, but needs a standard action to actually complete it.

Yes this is how I would rule it.

WAIT!
What about volcanoes?! Is there any way I could start a volcano to make the island?

Well since you're bascially playing a homegame that has some PFS rules (and there's nothing inherently wrong with that idea), just ask your GM about what the best option would be. Together you may come up with a solution agreeable to all parties be it creating a new spell, the old "island on the turtle's back" idea, or something completely different.

Since your characters aren't PFS legal, there's no reason to constrict yourself now to PFS options.

lol every time I post here people say to ask my DM, my DM doesn't really... answer questions like these...

Can Lyre of Building be used to shape the bay?

O.O

Mathius your awesomeness is vast and just generally quite awesome.

For reference a 10 x 10 x 10 cube of stone weighs about 100 tons.

Dirt in the same volume weighs about 40 tons.

Lets assume you need 20 feet of elevation to get above the high tide mark. That means you need between 1 and 2 tons per square foot.

A colossal quadruped ant haul and a heavy lift belt needs a str of 81 to move island in a single trip.

An advanced giant Basilosaurus has a str 51 if it has +2 str item. That means it can move that much earth in 64 trips. If you can use a zombie that allows easy control and no need of the belt.

Sky step allows fast movement.

If you avoid going with an undead you can polymorph it into a smaller form then teleport it. All it carries should merge with the form. Other ways include magic jar or boots of teleportation.

I'm going to use San Fransisco Bay as a comparison and about four meters is the high tide for that so fifteen feet should be fine.

What comes to mind is Terraform.

The major drawback of this spell is it's mythic and therefore not legal in PFS.

As a GM, I would allow a player to create a small island or have one created (provided the player can tell me a reasonable way of doing so). I would note it on the player's chronicle, but there wouldn't be any use other than the player being happy about his shiny new island.
I support anything players want to do for roleplaying reasons alone, and they have to be aware that they won't get any mechanical benefits. Of course, that also should only happen if there's time for it.

No it looks like Terraform does not alter the shape of the terrain...

doesn't affect creatures or the configuration of the earth. Transforming rocky hills into forested areas converts grasses into shrubs and small trees, but doesn't flatten the hill