Shield Bash Character - Brawler, Fighter (Brawler), Ranger, or Slayer?

[Sacob]

I'm building a level 11 character (if the build comes together slightly after, that is totally fine too). The idea that I have is a super gristly dwarf, loves getting messy, loves killing things, fighting fair doesn't factor into it. Original, I know :). Follower of Gorum (Shield-Trained trait and Spiked Destroyer feat). Slayer, Fighter (Brawler), Brawler, and Ranger, each of these classes have something I want, but obviously it is impossible to have it all.

Weapons are shield bashing (Heavy Spiked Shield), Cestus, Armor Spikes, hopefully doing lots of overrun/bull rushes (spiked destroyer!)

Multiclassing any of these isn't a problem - I've been looking at Fighter(Brawler)/Brawler, Ranger/Fighter, Slayer/Fighter mostly. I'd say Slayer/Fighter is in the lead for my favorite, but the Martial Flexibility seems too good to pass up. Would it be worth going Brawler to get it, and just getting the TWF feats instead of waiting for 15? That would mean I need double slice as well, since Brawler's Fury is what is giving me the extra dmg to offhand....

I keep going in circles in my head. I need some guru guidance to show me the path!

Feats I want: TWF chain, Shield Slam, Power Attack, Shield Focus, Shield Master, Imp Shield Bash, Spiked Destroyer, Weapon Focus (Spiked Heavy Shield), Steel Soul.

Stats after Dwarf Mod:
(Getting TWF) 18, 15, 16, 10, 10, 6
(Not getting TWF) 18, 14, 16, 10, 12, 6

Thank you in advance, everyone is always so knowledgeable and helpful.

[The Free Man]

Hey man, I made a similar character. Straight Human Fighter (Brawler). It's level 4 right now, but I got more planned out. Here's my list of feats (In no particular order).

Already taken:
Improved Shield Bash
Two Weapon Fighting
Power Attack
Weapon Focus (Shield)
Dodge
Weapon Specialization (Shield)

Planned:
Greater Weapon Focus
Bashing Finish
Dazing Assault
Cornugon Smash
Shatter Defenses
Deadly Stroke
Toughness
Step Up, Following Step, Step Up and Strike
Double Slice, Two Weapon Rend
Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Weapon Specialization
Improved Bull Rush, Greater Bull Rush
Spiked Destroyer
Shield Focus
Missile Shield
Shield Slam
Shield Master

[Melkiador]

Why are you getting brawler and two weapon fighting? You can flurry a shield. Do you mean your flurry is counting as two weapon fighting?

[Sacob]

Well, I know it isn't ideal. I assume that most of these builds are going to want a three level dip into fighter (brawler) in order to get close weapon bonuses (+1/+3 if I remember correctly) which means waiting until 18 for the brawler equivalent of GTWF. I don't want to take the whole chain, but I'm also impatient and don't want to wait.

[Protoman]

If you want to two-hand Power Attack with the heavy shield, don't bother with Shield-Trained trait as it'll make you treat the shield as light and your damage gets hosed. ALL the classes you listed but brawler grants full martial weapon proficiency. The trait is only good for shield champions that aren't proficient with shields as weapons (as currently written pre-potential-errata) and for those hoping to TWF with it.

[Scott Wilhelm]

There are only 2 kinds of Shield I would use: either a Heavy, Spiked Shield or a Klar. With either of these, get the Bashing enchantment and your Shield Bash will do 2d6. I recommend the combination of Shield Slam, Greater Bull Rush, Paired Opportunist, and Combat Reflexes combined with either the Cavalier Tactician or the Inquisitor Solo Tactics class abilities.

With Shield Slam, every Shield Bash is also a Bull Rush.

With Greater Bull Rush, every Bull Rush gives Attacks of Opportunity to all your allies if your victim gets Bull Rushed out of Threatened Squares.

With Paired Opportunist, if your allies get AoO's, you get them, too.

Your Attack of Opportunity could be another Shield Bash, followed by another Bull Rush, followed by another round of Attacks of Opportunity. If you can set it up right, you can loop.

What's your other Weapon?

How about Earthbreaker hammer? Take Thunder and Fang, which lets you wield your Earthbreaker in one hand and your Klar in the other. When you get the Bashing Enchantment, both weapons will do 2d6: pretty cool.

How about Lucern Hammer? Lucerne Hammers are Blunt, Piercing, Reach, and Brace Weapons that do 1d12. You can Shield Slam your victims 5' away from you, then tenderize them with your Pole Arm with Reach, then if they come too close, you can Bash and Bull Rush them away from you again. There are many other wicked things you can do with this combo. You can wield a Shield in one hand and a Pole Arm in the other if you take some levels in the Phalanx Soldier Fighter Archetype.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Melkiador wrote:

Why are you getting brawler and two weapon fighting? You can flurry a shield. Do you mean your flurry is counting as two weapon fighting?

Flurry with a shield? How? Tell me more, please!

[Melkiador]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Melkiador wrote:

Why are you getting brawler and two weapon fighting? You can flurry a shield. Do you mean your flurry is counting as two weapon fighting?

Flurry with a shield? How? Tell me more, please!

Shields are in the close weapons group and thus the default brawler can use it with brawlers flurry.

[Zwordsman]

I'm utterly utterly a fan of shield champion brawler. Slap on either agil shield, or mighty hurling belt. and you've got the ability to have single stat to range and melee. with a LOT of options for both. and some massive damaging output via flurry

[heyyon]

Dip 2 Ranger first, then go into Brawler. Ranger can grab Shield Slam at 2nd level, as an early entry that voids the pre-reqs. You could try doing Ranger 6 to get Shield Master, as well, again early entry by 5 levels and ignore the feat's pre-reqs.

[Cap. Darling]

Shield champ. if it starts at 11.

[Kaouse]

If you're starting at 11+, then a TWF Ranger beats the pants off all others, since he doesn't need to meet annoying DEX requirements. From there, you can grab Shield Master and have more attacks than any THF while still using primarily Strength, with no penalty to the roll. Add in Instant Enemy and all of those attacks are definitely hitting.

At earlier levels, the Ranger is still good with the Sword & Board style, since he can get Shield Master early.

[Sacob]

Kause, would you pick ranger over slayer? Slayer can get the same bonus feats, but also additional martial skills in lieu of spells.

Re: reach weapon with shield bash - that sounds awesome, and I'm definitely going to build that at some point. I'm pretty dead set on the close combat right now. Cestus and spiked shield seems so cool (despite likely not being optimal)

[rorek55]

I greatly enjoy fighter for this, +1/+3 is really nice.

[Cap. Darling]

Kaouse wrote:

If you're starting at 11+, then a TWF Ranger beats the pants off all others, since he doesn't need to meet annoying DEX requirements. From there, you can grab Shield Master and have more attacks than any THF while still using primarily Strength, with no penalty to the roll. Add in Instant Enemy and all of those attacks are definitely hitting.

At earlier levels, the Ranger is still good with the Sword & Board style, since he can get Shield Master early.

A brawler can do the same, she just only need one shield. She dosent get shield Master before level 11 but since this game start at 11 it is irrelevant.

Ok she dosent get instant enemy but he can get figther only stuff and can do Nice things with a shield. And at level the shield does 1d8 even without spikes:)

[Kaouse]

Eh, not going to lie, I'm still in the process of reviewing the hybrid classes, so if Brawler and Slayer can do something similar, by all means.

That said, Shields lend themselves to size increases, so being able to cast Lead Blades is definitely a point in the Ranger's favor, as is Instant Enemy (get a wand). There are a lot of great utility spells on the Ranger's list;; it's never a bad idea to be a spellcaster in PF.

[wraithstrike]

Slayers and rangers get my vote due to early access.

[Cap. Darling]

wraithstrike wrote:

Slayers and rangers get my vote due to early access.

since the game starts at 11 that is hardly a thing?

[Sacob]

Brawler can't use shields for defense without a level dip or some burnt feats, and as far as attacking with a shield, the shield has to be in the off hand for a shield bash to bull rush I believe. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Right now where I am at is 6 levels of Slayer (gets me Stealth, Sense Motive, Perception, and sneak attack + studied enemy +2, two ranger feats for shield slam and shield master, and power attack from combat trick), and then the rest going into Fighter(Brawler) for the weapon and bonuses. At level 11, that gets me both Shield Master and GTWF, and even with the slayer dip I'm not behind in feats because all my slayer talents went towards them.

[Melkiador]

You don't need shield proficiencies to use shields. You just suffer the armor check penalty on certain rolls without it. But a light shield doesn't have a penalty if it is masterwork or better. And a heavy shield doesn't if it is mithral.

[Aemesh]

I think I was just reading an amusing thread that may pique your interest...

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ngck?Dualshielding#1

[Sacob]

Melkiador wrote:

You don't need shield proficiencies to use shields. You just suffer the armor check penalty on certain rolls without it. But a light shield doesn't have a penalty if it is masterwork or better. And a heavy shield doesn't if it is mithral.

Without shield proficiency you can't get most of the necessary feats :(

[Captain Morgan]

I feel like this discussion could use a bump. I'm theory crafting a level 10 shield user in my head as a back up character, but between things like Shield Champion errata, Ricochet Toss, Advance Weapons Training, and whatever goodies are in the armor masters handbook, it seems like the landscape has shifted significantly for what to do.

At level 10, instant enemy seems hard to beat though.

[Captain Morgan]

After doing some comparisons, the Shield Champion really pulls ahead once it gets Shield Master. More attacks, all from the same shield, and can use two handed power attack damage. Mutagenic Mauler adds some more damage on top. It's pretty terrifying.

Though you don't necessarily need to take all 11 levels of Shield Champion. 8 levels seems like a good amount, and 3 levels of Fighter with weapon master, brawler, or Siege breaker may be worth considering. It may slow things down in the long run but it can score some immediate damage bumps.

If you are starting at lower levels, then 6 levels of Ranger or Slayer is pretty tempting. From there I'd go into Shield Champion though.