If you were somehow to get Level to Damage twice would they stack?
I mean like Paladin's Smite paired with Swashbuckler's Precise strike. I mean I know the same ability doesn't add right? I mean like Magus using Arcane Deed to pair with Precise Strike from Swashbuckler? Or would that be a different source (One from the class one from the arcana)
|
I'm not sure about all cases, but classes are generally written assuming that the character only has that class. Paladin's Smite only applies to Paladin levels.
Smite Evil (Su): Once per day, a paladin can call out to the powers of good to aid her in her struggle against evil. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess....[/url]
The daring champion is the only example i Can Think of. And i am fairly sure they work.
Both would match the class they came from. As an example if the paladin level is 7 and the swashbucker is 4 then you would get 7 while smiting from the pally, and 4 from the swashbuckler as long as the opponent is subject to precision damage.
How would they work in gestalt?
For example a Magus//Swashbuckler as they do use almost the same thing.
Interesting. I was being told about the Inspired Blade//Kensai and it would have the two deeds, which would allow it to deal double level to damage with every strike without spending any Arcane Pool or Panache, and then double those again with the spending of one Arcane Pool point and one Panache. Turning say a level 5 characters damage from 10 (5+5) to 20 which is pretty nice.
There was the Gestalt rule that same class features don't stack, and that you take the fastest progression.
In other words, a Level 20 Ninja // Vivisectionist wouldn't have a 20d6 sneak attack, only a 10d6 one.
Similarly, Precise Strike + Precise Strike wouldn't work, but Precise Strike + Smite Evil would.
That said, an Inspired Blade Kensai is still the better choice once they hit Level 11. At will Critical Spellstrikes? Yes please.
Well its not the same class feature, one is granted via normal level progression and one is granted via a separate class feature. One is a Deed, one is an Arcana.
If you have Paladin 5/Swashbuckler 3, and you make an attack that qualifies for both "level to damage" abilities, you'll get 5 from the Paladin and 3 from the Swashbuckler if they don't stack. If they do stack, you still get a total of 8 (e.g., you don't get twice your level from either of them if they stack).
It only matters if you are making an attack that doesn't qualify for both abilities, I guess. For example, if you use Precise Strike without smiting, you would only get 3 if they don't stack but 8 if they do stack.
Yes I agree if used in Multiclassing it would work that way. I was more curious if Magus Arcana Deed Arcana stacked with Precise Strike deed. I am asking more for a gestalt character.
Well its not the same class feature, one is granted via normal level progression and one is granted via a separate class feature. One is a Deed, one is an Arcana.They are the same class feature, so no, they don't stack for gestalt purposes. Where they come from doesn't matter, what they are does.
While I agree with this I'm not sure it's this clear. Take channeling, those are all separate of the "same" ability. Or the brawler's unarmed damage and monk unarmed damage. The mutation warrior's and mutagen mauler if they can take extra discovery. A familiar from the Eldrich Guardian or an alchemist's tumor familiar and improved familiar. All these are debated if they work the same or not. And I'm sure there are others. So again, It's not so clear in the online forum community which interpretation is correct.
Yes I agree if used in Multiclassing it would work that way. I was more curious if Magus Arcana Deed Arcana stacked with Precise Strike deed. I am asking more for a gestalt character.
Gestalt is multiclassing, but in the Second Edition manner of levelling two classes simultaneously (or, going farther back, playing an Elf back when Elf was a class.) Magus PS and Swashy PS are the same ability; the only difference is that when using Arcane Deeds, you use your AP as though it were Panache for activation and use purposes.
Remember what the Arcane Deeds arcana does:
"When a magus takes this arcana, he can pick any one deed from the swashbuckler class feature as long as that deed can be used by a swashbuckler of his magus level. The magus can use that deed by using points from his arcane pool as the panache points required for that deed. A magus can take this arcana multiple times, each time gaining a new deed." (ACG)
You are gaining the swashy deed, only modified to use AP in place of Panache.
So, if you had both, it would remain active if you had 1 AP or 1 Panache - and could burn either (but not both; you only get one swift action) for its own PS ability to double your precision bonus. You wouldn't passively double your precision bonus just for having both, any more than a normally multiclassed Magus 3 / Swashy 5 would have a +8 precision bonus.
While I agree with this I'm not sure it's this clear. Take channeling, those are all separate of the "same" ability. Or the brawler's unarmed damage and monk unarmed damage. The mutation warrior's and mutagen mauler if they can take extra discovery. A familiar from the Eldrich Guardian or an alchemist's tumor familiar and improved familiar. All these are debated if they work the same or not. And I'm sure there are others. So again, It's not so clear in the online forum community which interpretation is correct.Well its not the same class feature, one is granted via normal level progression and one is granted via a separate class feature. One is a Deed, one is an Arcana.They are the same class feature, so no, they don't stack for gestalt purposes. Where they come from doesn't matter, what they are does.We're talking specifically about gestalt here. Gestalt is very clear on the subject:
•Class features that two classes share (such as uncanny dodge) accrue at the rate of the faster class.Both class features are "Precise Strike", and work in an identical fashion. As such, under the above rule they do not stack.
Channeling works the same way in Gestalt. So do familiars. So do animal companions. So does Sneak Attack. While it's not clear for multiclass shenanigans (well. For Precise Strike it's actually very clear because we have an FAQ on the matter, but that's neither here nor there), gestalt makes it simple.
So you are saying a Kensai Magus with Precise Strike
At 4th level, when a kensai hits with his chosen weapon, he can spend 1 point from his arcane pool in order to maximize his weapon damage. Don’t roll for damage—the weapon deals maximum damage. This affects only the weapon’s base damage dice, not additional damage from sneak attack, magical weapon properties, spellstrike, or critical hits. If the kensai confirms a critical hit, he can instead spend 2 points from his arcane pool to increase his weapon’s critical multiplier by 1.
wouldn't stack with the Swashbuckler's Precise Strike
Precise Strike (Ex)
: At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon (though not natural weapon attacks), adding her swashbuckler level to the damage dealt. To use this deed, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler. She can even use this ability with thrown light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, so long as the target is within 30 feet of her. Any creature that is immune to sneak attacks is immune to the additional damage granted by precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from the additional damage of a precise strike. This additional damage is precision damage, and isn't multiplied on a critical hit. As a swift action, a swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to double her precise strike's damage bonus on the next attack. This benefit must be used before the end of her turn, or it is lost. This deed's cost cannot be reduced by any ability or effect that reduces the amount of panache points a deed costs (such as the Signature Deed feat).
because they have the same name. That being Precise Strike.
But you are arguing that Magus Arcana - Arcane Deed (Precise Strike) is the same ability.
This is not like Uncanny Dodge
If you gain Uncanny Dodge like the Barbarian does at level 2 and like the Rogue does at level 4 those are not the same as what we are talking about. Those are two abilities that appear on their class ability lists.
Arcane Deed is a special thing that must be selected and is called an arcane deed, uses a different 'fuel' source and just functions the same but are not technically the same thing. Especially since you are investing a limited resource to gain said feature that normally does not appear on your class abilities.
While I am pretty sure they don't stack because its the exact same class ability, wouldn't they also not stack because they are the exact same type of bonus? Pretty sure precision damage isn't an exception like dodge is...
While I am pretty sure they don't stack because its the exact same class ability, wouldn't they also not stack because they are the exact same type of bonus? Pretty sure precision damage isn't an exception like dodge is...
Then wouldn't it not stack with itself, rendering the whole second half of the deed moot.
While I am pretty sure they don't stack because its the exact same class ability, wouldn't they also not stack because they are the exact same type of bonus? Pretty sure precision damage isn't an exception like dodge is...Then wouldn't it not stack with itself, rendering the whole second half of the deed moot.
No, because it specifically says it doubles the bonus, not add a separate bonus of the same type. And really, if you want to make that argument, then I think no buff effect other then dodge could give you more then +1.
Typically when a Class says "[enter input] equal to your [enter class name] level"
Very few things that AREN'T feats mentioned Character Level as a means to determine things like.
So when you have two things that both say "add an amount of damage based on your [class] levels" that's two different sources of damage both firing off.
Or, at least it used to be - I'm not sure what the ruling on Sources and Stacking is now.
If I were a DM I'd say that since they're two different abilities from two different sources, both adding Untyped damage, so unless the ability specifically states it doesn't stack with similar abilities, then have at it.
Then again, that's ONLY because I don't know the official ruling, if there is one (I remember a GIGANTIC thread and massive numbers of FAQ Button slamming, but don't know if it was ever resolved).
The second half of Arcane Deed is only there so that the magus can actually use the ability: he can treat his AP as though it were Panache, for the purpose of using Flamboyant Arcana and Arcane Deeds.
It's literally the same ability once you apply that mechanical fix.
Typically when a Class says "[enter input] equal to your [enter class name] level"
Very few things that AREN'T feats mentioned Character Level as a means to determine things like.
So when you have two things that both say "add an amount of damage based on your [class] levels" that's two different sources of damage both firing off.
Or, at least it used to be - I'm not sure what the ruling on Sources and Stacking is now.
If I were a DM I'd say that since they're two different abilities from two different sources, both adding Untyped damage, so unless the ability specifically states it doesn't stack with similar abilities, then have at it.
Then again, that's ONLY because I don't know the official ruling, if there is one (I remember a GIGANTIC thread and massive numbers of FAQ Button slamming, but don't know if it was ever resolved).
Untype buffs do stack, so if you go smite from paladin and warpriest, I believe the damage would in fact stack(by raw at least). However in this case it is precision damage, so no stacking.
While I am pretty sure they don't stack because its the exact same class ability, wouldn't they also not stack because they are the exact same type of bonus? Pretty sure precision damage isn't an exception like dodge is...
Actually precision damage DOES stack, mainly because Precision Damage is not actually a Bonus - it's a classification of damage like Energy Damage (Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity) and Weapon Damage (of which Slashing/Piercing/Bludgeoning are subdivisions).
Energy Damage all stacks with other Energy Damage, all Precision Damage stacks with all precision damage, and they all stack with each other.
It's a fairly common mistake to make, and even experienced DMs get tripped up on it, but that's why Precision Damage, like Energy Damage, isn't added on Critical Hits - because only Weapon Damage and all hard-coded bonuses specifically to Weapon Damage are multiplied.
Case in point: Sneak Attack is the most-common form of Precision Damage, and all sources of Sneak Attack stack with each other.
Vivisectionist and Rogue are oddballs not because Sneak Attack doesn't stack, but because the classes count as levels of one another to calculate your Rogue Level to determine your Sneak Attack Damage.
Other sources, like Prestige Classes, don't do this, and it's completely possible to gain up your Sneak Attack 3-4 levels in a row, since more than one Prestige Class grants Sneak Attack at level 1 (however, you're close to lv20 by the time you have enough prereqs to pull THAT BS off, so don't count on doing it ever in PFS).
While I am pretty sure they don't stack because its the exact same class ability, wouldn't they also not stack because they are the exact same type of bonus? Pretty sure precision damage isn't an exception like dodge is...Actually precision damage DOES stack, mainly because Precision Damage is not actually a Bonus - it's a classification of damage like Energy Damage (Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity) and Weapon Damage (of which Slashing/Piercing/Bludgeoning are subdivisions).
Energy Damage all stacks with other Energy Damage, all Precision Damage stacks with all precision damage, and they all stack with each other.
It's a fairly common mistake to make, and even experienced DMs get tripped up on it, but that's why Precision Damage, like Energy Damage, isn't added on Critical Hits - because only Weapon Damage and all hard-coded bonuses specifically to Weapon Damage are multiplied.
Huh... I guess you have a good point. Although not all energy damage stacks, in some specific cases with weapon abilities, but those are generally called out and not really relevant to this anyways.
Case in point: Sneak Attack is the most-common form of Precision Damage, and all sources of Sneak Attack stack with each other.
Vivisectionist and Rogue are oddballs not because Sneak Attack doesn't stack, but because the classes count as levels of one another to calculate your Rogue Level to determine your Sneak Attack Damage.
Other sources, like Prestige Classes, don't do this, and it's completely possible to gain up your Sneak Attack 3-4 levels in a row, since more than one Prestige Class grants Sneak Attack at level 1 (however, you're close to lv20 by the time you have enough prereqs to pull THAT BS off, so don't count on doing it ever in PFS).
Actually, they seem to specify that they stack with the other sneak attack abilities(looking at arcane trickster anyways), which arguably means they don't normally stack...
Huh... I guess you have a good point. Although not all energy damage stacks, in some specific cases with weapon abilities, but those are generally called out and not really relevant to this anyways.
Ah, but THAT'S a different beast entirely.
Literally.
The reason 3 instances of Flaming don't stack on a Longsword is because NO like-named Weapon Enhancement Abilities stack.
Which, frankly, is stupid, and nearly every home-game DM ignores this - if you want a Triple Flaming Longsword than go right the hell ahead.
But all other sources of additional Fire Damage DO stack with Flaming (except Flaming Burst because THAT dumbass enhancement SPECIFICALLY says it functions as Flaming, meaning a +1 Flaming, Flaming Burst is expensive and effectively useless...)
Yeah... no.
I am arguing that Precise Strike-- the Magus class feature which, yes, is granted by Arcane Deed (but is not, in and of itself, Arcane Deed)-- is the same as Precise Strike-- the Swashbuckler class feature.
I am arguing that they have the same wording.
I am arguing that they have the same effects.
I am arguing that they are the same thing.
The "fuel" source is irrelevant. Whether your animal companion's fuel-- the levels it looks at-- are Cavalier levels or Druid levels is irrelevant. It's an animal companion, and by gestalt rules it doesn't stack.
You are free-- and really you should, since anything gestalt in Pathfinder is a giant set of houserules-- to talk to your GM on the subject and ask how he feels. But the raw, by-the-Unearthed-Arcana-rules answer to this is "no".
You can stack Cavalier's Challenge with Precise Strike. You can stack Smite with Precise Strike. Heck, in Gestalt you can even effectively stack Smite with Challenge with Precise Strike.
But you can't stack two Precise Strikes.
Precise Strike (Ex) : At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon (though not natural weapon attacks), adding her swashbuckler level to the damage dealt. To use this deed, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler. She can even use this ability with thrown light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, so long as the target is within 30 feet of her. Any creature that is immune to sneak attacks is immune to the additional damage granted by precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from the additional damage of a precise strike. This additional damage is precision damage, and isn't multiplied on a critical hit. As a swift action, a swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to double her precise strike's damage bonus on the next attack. This benefit must be used before the end of her turn, or it is lost. This deed's cost cannot be reduced by any ability or effect that reduces the amount of panache points a deed costs (such as the Signature Deed feat).
Benefit(s) When a magus takes this arcana, he can pick any one deed from the swashbuckler class feature as long as that deed can be used by a swashbuckler of his magus level. The magus can use that deed by using points from his arcane pool as the panache points required for that deed. A magus can take this arcana multiple times, each time gaining a new deed.
At 4th level, when a kensai hits with his chosen weapon, he can spend 1 point from his arcane pool in order to maximize his weapon damage. Don’t roll for damage—the weapon deals maximum damage. This affects only the weapon’s base damage dice, not additional damage from sneak attack, magical weapon properties, spellstrike, or critical hits. If the kensai confirms a critical hit, he can instead spend 2 points from his arcane pool to increase his weapon’s critical multiplier by 1.
Yeah, it's clear that Arcane Deed gives you a Swashbuckler Deed, in this case Precise Strike, in pretty much an identical way that Amateur Swashbuckler would, with the major differences being that: 1) you use your Magus Arcana to pay for the chosen Deed instead of Panache; 2) you may choose ANY Deed as long as your current Magus level is equal to or greater than the necessary Class Level needed to gain that Deed as a Swashbuckler, not just a First Level.
This would be just like a Swashbuckler somehow magically gaining Precise Strike as a Swashbuckler twice - it's the same ability from start to finish, except for the fuel cost (Panache for Swashbuckler, Arcane Pool points for Magus).
Kensai, while having the same name, is obviously an entirely different ability.
Huh... I guess you have a good point. Although not all energy damage stacks, in some specific cases with weapon abilities, but those are generally called out and not really relevant to this anyways.Ah, but THAT'S a different beast entirely.
Literally.
The reason 3 instances of Flaming don't stack on a Longsword is because NO like-named Weapon Enhancement Abilities stack.
Which, frankly, is stupid, and nearly every home-game DM ignores this - if you want a Triple Flaming Longsword than go right the hell ahead.
But all other sources of additional Fire Damage DO stack with Flaming (except Flaming Burst because THAT dumbass enhancement SPECIFICALLY says it functions as Flaming, meaning a +1 Flaming, Flaming Burst is expensive and effectively useless...)
Actually, there are spells that grant weapons temp elemental damage, that aren't the same as the normal weapon abilities that do not stack.
Also, I'm personally fine with not being able to stack the same energy weapon abilities, but then I am also of the camp that doesn't think arcane deed lets you use precise strike in the first place(you have no levels of swash buckler and just too damn good for the cost).
I am also of the camp that doesn't think arcane deed lets you use precise strike in the first place(you have no levels of swash buckler and just too damn good for the cost).
Benefit(s) When a magus takes this arcana, he can pick any one deed from the swashbuckler class feature as long as that deed can be used by a swashbuckler of his magus level. The magus can use that deed by using points from his arcane pool as the panache points required for that deed. A magus can take this arcana multiple times, each time gaining a new deed.
The problem is the ability explicitly states that you can take ANY Deed as long as your Magus Level is high enough to qualify for it if he were a Swashbuckler instead of a Magus.
WHY they didn't use the typical wording of "Choose and gain any one Deed from the Swashbuckler Class feature, treating your Magus levels as levels in Swashbuckler for the purposes of determining eligibility for, and effects of, that Deed. While using that Deed, you may substitute your Arcane Pool in place of Panache for all effects and costs associated with that Deed" is beyond me, but either way it's Clear that Magus Class Levels = Swashbuckler Class Levels when choosing the Deed.
That means that a Magus CAN choose Precise Strike, so long as he has 3 or more Class Levels in Magus.
I am also of the camp that doesn't think arcane deed lets you use precise strike in the first place(you have no levels of swash buckler and just too damn good for the cost).Benefit(s) When a magus takes this arcana, he can pick any one deed from the swashbuckler class feature as long as that deed can be used by a swashbuckler of his magus level. The magus can use that deed by using points from his arcane pool as the panache points required for that deed. A magus can take this arcana multiple times, each time gaining a new deed.The problem is the ability explicitly states that you can ANY Deed as long as your Magus Level is high enough to qualify for it if he were a Swashbuckler instead of a Magus.
WHY they didn't use the typical wording of "treating your Magus level as levels in Swashbuckler for the purposes of determining if you are eligible to gain that Deed" is beyond me, but either way it's Clear that Magus Class Levels = Swashbuckler Class Levels when choosing the Deed.
That means that a Magus CAN choose Precise Strike, so long as he has 3 or more Class Levels in Magus.
I disagree, if they wanted that language in there they would have added it, but really, we've gone far enough off topic as is so lets not get into that here.
I disagree, if they wanted that language in there they would have added it, but really, we've gone far enough off topic as is so lets not get into that here.
I don't want to get into a long argument, either, but it's pretty clear even without the normal mechanical language:
"When a magus takes this arcana, he can pick any one deed from the swashbuckler class feature as long as that deed can be used by a Swashbuckler of his Magus level."
There isn't any room for interpretation in that.
That's as clear as "the dog pooped on the lawn."
I can understand if you feel it's overpowered, but it's plain English: if a character with 5 levels in Magus takes this Arcana, he can choose, gain, and use any Deed from the basic Swashbuckler's "Deed" class feature that's usable by a 5th-level Swashbuckler, including Precise Strike.
---
Anyway, back on topic:
a Swashcbuckler/Magus Gestalt character using Arcane Deed to gain Precise Strike is just wasting Arcane Deed if his Swashbuckler half already has Precise Strike; you could arguably still do that JUST to use Arcane Pool AS WELL as Panache to pay for Precise Strike (the same way that having levels in Gunslinger AND Swashbuckler can double your Grit/Panache Pool), but that's the end of it.
Everything beyond the ignition switch (Arcane Pool vs Panache) is identical - you get two instances of the exact same ability, which is just like having Uncanny Dodge twice. You can attack and spend either Panache or Arcane points to activate your Precise Strike in a way that's functionally identical to spending either Grit or Panache to pay for Deeds, but that's the most of it - you don't get the ability to add your Swashmagus level worth of damage twice.
The problem is that the OP did not mention Gestalt at the beginning. Always mention houserules up front. Sometimes Paizo gives various things the same name. I am no my phone so I am not about to look anything up however I can still provide some clarification.
If the class feature not only has the same name but works in the exact same manner then you only get it once.
If it has the same name but has different rules for how it works then it is a different class feature that Paizo made the mistake of sharing the name.
OP I hope this clears things up for you.
I disagree, if they wanted that language in there they would have added it, but really, we've gone far enough off topic as is so lets not get into that here.I don't want to get into a long argument, either, but it's pretty clear even without the normal mechanical language:
"When a magus takes this arcana, he can pick any one deed from the swashbuckler class feature as long as that deed can be used by a Swashbuckler of his Magus level."
There isn't any room for interpretation in that.
That's as clear as "the dog pooped on the lawn."
I can understand if you feel it's overpowered, but it's plain English: if a character with 5 levels in Magus takes this Arcana, he can choose, gain, and use any Deed from the basic Swashbuckler's "Deed" class feature that's usable by a 5th-level Swashbuckler, including Precise Strike.
I disagree, but not gonna explain it here, feel free to necropost one of the other threads on this if you want(you will even probably see one of my post already in there!).
Also dead phoenix "any" is pretty much all inclusive. Do you think Paizo is going to let you choose it and not be able to use it?
As for the reason why all wording of the rules is not the same:
Freelancers write a lot of the material and Paizo wants them to have some freedom with how they word things so one freelancer might use one style of writing and another may say the same thing in a different manner. This info is from a paizo dev.
Also dead phoenix "any" is pretty much all inclusive. Do you think Paizo is going to let you choose it and not be able to use it?
Probably wouldn't be the first time. But still, not the place for this.
The Magus can take the deed, but that doesn't mean he benefits from it. Sure, he has Precise Strike now, but as written he also has an effective Swashbuckler level of 0 and gets 0 extra damage from the deed. I can't think of a good reason to word the ability like that other than excluding Precise Strike, anyways.
Everything beyond the ignition switch (Arcane Pool vs Panache) is identical - you get two instances of the exact same ability, which is just like having Uncanny Dodge twice. You can attack and spend either Panache or Arcane points to activate your Precise Strike in a way that's functionally identical to spending either Grit or Panache to pay for Deeds, but that's the most of it - you don't get the ability to add your Swashmagus level worth of damage twice.
So a Cleric / Paladin would only have 1 channel energy since they are the exact same ability right? I mean the ignition switch is different, 3+cha a day and 2 LoH but they do the same things right?
If the class feature not only has the same name but works in the exact same manner then you only get it once.
See my post above about the cleric and the Paladin? And what about if it's the same ability with different names? Like the ones that say "this works like the cavaliers tactician ability"?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
See my post above about the cleric and the Paladin? And what about if it's the same ability with different names? Like the ones that say "this works like the cavaliers tactician ability"?
If the class feature not only has the same name but works in the exact same manner then you only get it once.
Functionally Identical abilities will often say that they are "like" another ability and will say as such.
The most prominent that comes to mind for me is Inspire Courage, which is always "like the Bard ability" in some way or another - whether it is Inspire Courage by itself or whether gained as something copying Bardic Performance entirely, if it says "like the X ability" and doesn't state that it stacks, then it doesn't stack.
HOWEVER, if an ability functions exactly like another ability, but DOESN'T say it is "like" another ability, then, yes, they can stack.
HOWEVER, I can almost guarantee that every ability which says "like the Cavalier's Tactician ability" will actually stack with Cavalier levels for determining Tactician and say explicitly as such (Trust me, I've looked at just about every freakin' one of 'em).
As for the Channel, no, you're out of luck
Basically, here's how it goes down:
Same Name, Same Exact Effect: Don't Stack
Same Name, Different Effect: Stack
Different Name, Same Effect, one is "like" the other or "counts" as the other: Don't Stack
Different Name, Same Effect, neither says it is "like" any other ability nor says they "count" as any other ability: Stack
Also dead phoenix "any" is pretty much all inclusive. Do you think Paizo is going to let you choose it and not be able to use it?Probably wouldn't be the first time. But still, not the place for this.
I am kinda lost as to what you are trying to say, and that question was a serious question if you thought I was being a "donkey".