|
Hey guys. My PFS character will have enough XP to hit 2nd level after an adventure tomorrow. I have a few things I want to iron out before I get there.
Human Paladin of Kurgess. 11 WIS.
1) Is it worth it, to at one point, to take a single level of Cleric? I want the domain ability from Travel so he won't be so slow.
2) weapon/shield, two handed weapon, or bow? I kind of think most of the damage at higher levels will come from smiting, which means a shield (when I say weapon/shield, I mean just using a shield, not investing in TWF and shield bashing) will be okay. But then I get to thinking about enemies that aren't evil, and how a two hander would be really helpful against them. If a two hander is recommended, what about using a reach weapon? I think I would like an archer-Paladin, but I'm always warned that I'll be expected to take the front line in many groups when there isn't a Fighter or Barbarian.
3) I've been thinking: if I go with a weapon/shield style of fighting, then I don't need to worry about power Attack or combat reflexes too much. Then I start thinking that maybe a half elf might be better than a human.
Thanks for your help guys!!
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Tell people to shove their expectations, and you even might want to not tell people what you are to avoid metagame. I finally tried paladin in pfs, and I was harassed about so much stuff.
Bow is a really great option, because you can invest in dex and charisma pretty much making your ac and saves pretty strong, while not really having to move. Smite everything, and bypass dr!
If you're going melee, I'd say have a shield. Lay on hands requires a free hand to use, so I suggest a buckler, and what's cool is if you want that two handed damage all you have to do is take a -1 penalty, and lose your ac, rather than spending actions dropping the shield.
Again, do what you want because it's your character, but just don't show up with something garbage that'll be a huge burden to the party. I hate how others take the fun out of the game when they feel you're obligated to do something.
Edit: I wouldn't dip in cleric just for some speed.
1) If you want a domain while being a paladin, consider Sacred Servant (note: I haven't a clue whether it's PFS legal or not). Whether it's worth it or not depends a lot on how much you value mobility.
2) No point in not having a backup weapon. If you want to go bow, go bow, but be prepared for melee if the group forces you into or it makes more sense to you. But on the other hand, be prepared to kick butts with archery when there is a fighter, barbarian, warocle, non-bow ranger, combat focused inquisitor, cavalier, or other brute type person.
You do the best with the group you have, but there's no reason to build your character around what you think might happen when you show up to a group.
|
|
2 handed paladin with UMD through Dangerously Curious trait. A adamantine weapon is what you want. Falchion is the critical weapon of choice typically. Every type of damage a Paladin does is able to be multiplied on a critical. Greatsword is another good option.
Longstrider is a 1st level wand. +5 Feet of movement Pair with feathsteap slippers...later you can buy and use scrolls of fly for super cheap.
Shield is a 1st level wand. Why buy a shield when you can conjure a better one and still get that sweet 2 handed power attack damage mixed with smite when applicable.
The dip in travel cleric will net you 5 feet of movement...not worth it.
Most your damage will come from Power attack. There is no reason to not take it.
Either carry a Bow or a Wand of Magic Missile. I still recommend a MW composite Bow (+3 str) would be plenty. Smite works with whatever weapon you're using. Bonding to a weapon can happen to either weapon....just don't let it get destroyed while bonded.
I feel you're over thinking this.
|
|
Oh, I'm totally overthinking this, LOL!
I shouldn't be concerned with the short duration of the shield spell?
BTW: Mr. Thistlefoot has guided me with this character a lot. It's all been his idea, with me tweaking things a little bit. I'm new to PF, and he's been incredibly helpful along the way.
Thank you!!
Remember that if you use something from another book, you need to have a copy of that resource for PFS Organized Play.
I also would recommend against dipping Cleric in order to get the Travel Domain. Either go Sacred Servant (APG) as suggested above, or look at Temple Champion (ACG) if you really want a domain power. They have different trade-offs.
I do not think that the additional movement from the travel domain is worth it, but both of the archetypes allow for more than that.
Longstrider as a wand works, especially since the duration is long enough that you can do it ahead of time. This does mean investing some of your very limited skill ranks in UMD.
Mithral Armor would also allow you to move faster at the cost of AC. The cost is rather high so you would have to work your way up to it.
If you go sword and board, you could look at the Quickdraw Shield (UE) as a way to deal with needing a free hand. It would allow you to more quickly get the shield ready or store it.
You have mentioned several different combat styles. If you want to be good at one, you have to commit to it. Paladins do not get a lot of feats. Decide which style you want to do, and then have a fall-back plan for when that isn't working.
For out of combat, many paladins max Diplomacy. It allows you to gather information and avoid unnecessary battles.
Most of all, make sure you create something you will have fun with!
Good luck!
|
All that said, If you have the copy, and it's still legal, Aasimar (angel-kin) is the best race for paladin IMO hands down.
After this, I really enjoy the half-elf.
-dual minded for +2 will, on top of cha and good saves
-1/2 hp from lay on hands, IIRC it works with fey foundling, say level 6 paladin, you now get 3d6+6+3 hp per LoH used on yourself. that is minimum of 12 hp. avg of 19.5hp. yeehaw. (also, don't listen to the nay sayers of PA at level 1, you can take it at level 3, most of the damage from PA at level 1 when 2handing is overkill anyway)
I wouldn't recommend the dip, you want that disease immunity and mercies Asap.
on another note, do PDF's count as having a copy of the resource material for PFS?
You can wield a heavy shield with two hands as a two-handed weapon and still retain the AC thanks to shield bash.
Go nuts. I've seen it done before and it's effective. You won't have a great damage die or crit chance, but you can power attack and everything with that shield.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
yes, but if you are playing an archadin you should be human/aasimar and going divine hunter. (free precise shot, so human at level 1 would be- PBS, precise shot, rapid fire)
looking to heal youself well is a melee characters dream. To be quite frank, my favorite AND most effective paladin build (I've played MANY) as the following
(note, this was before I discovered aasimars, PA would have been 3rd and pushed everything else back a level)
feats-
1- Fey foundling, power attack
3- Greater mercy
5- Intimidating Prowess
7- Corungon smash
9- Extra lay on hands
11-Dazing Assault
at 12 I was doing, IIRC, 2d6+26 (11+3+12) without smite, divine favor, or divine bond, healed for 7d6+14 each LoH, all my saves were 15ish+ It was fun.
|
|
You can wield a heavy shield with two hands as a two-handed weapon and still retain the AC thanks to shield bash.
Go nuts. I've seen it done before and it's effective. You won't have a great damage die or crit chance, but you can power attack and everything with that shield.
actually built a Fighter (brawler) character based around this + TWF when full attacking. (cestus is a wonderful, wonderful weapon, and shares the same weapon group as shield. Close. )
|
|
Alright. I'm pretty sure I'm going human with a two handed weapon
STR 18 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 8 CHA 14
Power Attack will be one of my feats.
I plan on using UMD (through a trait) and maximizing that. Same goes for Perception.
Wands can boost my defenses and increase movement.
Question about skills: do you get the class bonus at 1st level only, or at any level you put ranks into a class skill?
Thanks again.
as soon as you put your first rank in a skill you get the bonus, even if it's not till lv 20.
A quickdraw shield and the Quick Draw feat is a potential option for getting the best of both worlds as well; a quickdraw shield with a proper one-handed weapon lets you two-hand your weapon for just as long as you need to before throwing your shield back into place. Only AoO's will still be one-handed. It's only lacking in that you lose 1AC due to light shield.
|
|
Alright. I'm pretty sure I'm going human with a two handed weapon
STR 18 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 8 CHA 14
Power Attack will be one of my feats.
I plan on using UMD (through a trait) and maximizing that. Same goes for Perception.
Wands can boost my defenses and increase movement.
Question about skills: do you get the class bonus at 1st level only, or at any level you put ranks into a class skill?
Thanks again.
Another option is half-orc with sacred tattoos (of your god) and fates favored. (+2 to all saves. Never fail a Save!) And other nifty things.
I cannot street enough the power of fey foundling.
And OK, let's look at it like this, cr1-2 encounters in pfs include on a normal basis lots of weak enemies.
Goblin-6hp unchanged
Normal cr1 human- 8-10hp avg.
Wolf/animals-8-11hp avg.
If you use a grestsword early levels (no reason not to) that's a base avg. Damage of 6-7. Add on +6 for strength and suddenly you have on avg, enough to one shot most level 1 encounters, PA is really not needed until 3 if other feats are there. (Fey foundling)
Also, if you want the most bang for buck. And DO go human, and Int of 7 is the same as INT 8. You still get 2 skills/level. I highly recommend getting your CHA to at least 15.
Alright. I'm pretty sure I'm going human with a two handed weapon
STR 18 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 8 CHA 14
Power Attack will be one of my feats.
I plan on using UMD (through a trait) and maximizing that. Same goes for Perception.
Wands can boost my defenses and increase movement.
Question about skills: do you get the class bonus at 1st level only, or at any level you put ranks into a class skill?
Thanks again.
I assume you will be going for heavy armor given the stat array.
For your other trait, I would recommend Blessed Touch for the additional healing power.
For your other feat, you might want to consider blind fight. As a human, there are going to be times where you will not be able to see.
I would strongly suggest your third skill point be in Diplomacy. Even maxing it, your Perception is never going to be strong. Getting rid of the penalty from the low wisdom makes sense, but after that I would rather have a skill that I'm competent at than one that I would always be lagging behind in.
|
|
Alright. I'm pretty sure I'm going human with a two handed weapon
STR 18 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 8 CHA 14
Power Attack will be one of my feats.
I plan on using UMD (through a trait) and maximizing that. Same goes for Perception.
Wands can boost my defenses and increase movement.
Question about skills: do you get the class bonus at 1st level only, or at any level you put ranks into a class skill?
Thanks again.
I assume you will be going for heavy armor given the stat array.
For your other trait, I would recommend Blessed Touch for the additional healing power.
For your other feat, you might want to consider blind fight. As a human, there are going to be times where you will not be able to see.
I would strongly suggest your third skill point be in Diplomacy. Even maxing it, your Perception is never going to be strong. Getting rid of the penalty from the low wisdom makes sense, but after that I would rather have a skill that I'm competent at than one that I would always be lagging behind in.
Im planning on putting a lot of ranks in Diplomacy.
I want to be perceptive, but there's a little munchkin on my shoulder whispering to me. He says:
"Drop DEX to 10, and if you're surprised, you'll have the same flat-footed AC anyway. Perception? Let the rest of the party worry about that"
That same munchkin is telling me to drop INT to 7:
"Put your favored class bonus into skill points and you'll still have 3 skills a level."
I know I can build a more powerful character by becoming a 'Paladunce'. The STR and/or CHA can be higher. But what's the point of Diplomacy then? I mean, can an idiot really be an effective talker/face of the party?
Im planning on putting a lot of ranks in Diplomacy.
I want to be perceptive, but there's a little munchkin on my shoulder whispering to me. He says:
"Drop DEX to 10, and if you're surprised, you'll have the same flat-footed AC anyway. Perception? Let the rest of the party worry about that"
I wouldn't consider either of those bad trade-offs.
That same munchkin is telling me to drop INT to 7:
"Put your favored class bonus into skill points and you'll still have 3 skills a level."
I know I can build a more powerful character by becoming a 'Paladunce'. The STR and/or CHA can be higher. But what's the point of Diplomacy then? I mean, can an idiot really be an effective talker/face of the party?
I don't like dropping any statistic down that low. The skill points are useful. My dump stats tend to be 10s.
With only 3 skill ranks per level, I tend to pick one skill to keep maxed and then try to get a few others to a useable level -- somewhere around a +5 bonus or so. Lots of 'easy' tasks are DC 15 to DC 18. When you figure in Armor Check Penalty a lot of those tasks aren't so easy.
I suggest a buckler, and what's cool is if you want that two handed damage all you have to do is take a -1 penalty, and lose your ac, rather than spending actions dropping the shield.
Is it always a flat -1? I heard it was the check penalty that applies to attack rolls.
|
|
Alright. I'm pretty sure I'm going human with a two handed weapon
STR 18 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 8 CHA 14
Power Attack will be one of my feats.
I plan on using UMD (through a trait) and maximizing that. Same goes for Perception.
Wands can boost my defenses and increase movement.
Question about skills: do you get the class bonus at 1st level only, or at any level you put ranks into a class skill?
Thanks again.
I assume you will be going for heavy armor given the stat array.
For your other trait, I would recommend Blessed Touch for the additional healing power.
For your other feat, you might want to consider blind fight. As a human, there are going to be times where you will not be able to see.
I would strongly suggest your third skill point be in Diplomacy. Even maxing it, your Perception is never going to be strong. Getting rid of the penalty from the low wisdom makes sense, but after that I would rather have a skill that I'm competent at than one that I would always be lagging behind in.
That same munchkin is telling me to drop INT to 7:
"Put your favored class bonus into skill points and you'll still have 3 skills a level."
I know I can build a more powerful character by becoming a 'Paladunce'. The STR and/or CHA can be higher. But what's the point of Diplomacy then? I mean, can an idiot really be an effective talker/face of the party?
Just the advice. You never specificed what you wanted. Besides an Int 7 is forest gump and no worse. I'd say he could be a face. Its not like he is inept, just slower. I rarely dump stat anything below an 8. Just presenting the option.
I've seen straight A students be out argued by straight C students in debates, purely because the C student (int7-8) new what to say to people and how it would effect them. INT does not a face make.
|
|
Got me! Get your own thread ;)
LOL, JK!
Rorek: I appreciate your suggestion, and I wasn't trying to disrespect you with my response. Apologies if I offended you.
Here's my latest incarnation:
Human Paladin (Iomedae). Alternate Racial Trait: Dual Talent
STR 18 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 7 CHA 17
Feat: Fey Foundling
Traits: Dangerously Curious; Purity of Faith
Skills: UMD (max), Diplomacy (max), 1 rank in most class skills (eventually).
Combat: Big ass two handed weapon. Haven't decided which one yet.
I'm pretty set on this guy. I like him a lot.
My only final decision to make is which, if any, archetype to choose.
|
|
Got me! Get your own thread ;)
LOL, JK!
Rorek: I appreciate your suggestion, and I wasn't trying to disrespect you with my response. Apologies if I offended you.
Here's my latest incarnation:
Human Paladin (Iomedae). Alternate Racial Trait: Dual Talent
STR 18 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 7 CHA 17
Feat: Fey Foundling
Traits: Dangerously Curious; Purity of Faith
Skills: UMD (max), Diplomacy (max), 1 rank in most class skills (eventually).
Combat: Big ass two handed weapon. Haven't decided which one yet.
I'm pretty set on this guy. I like him a lot.
My only final decision to make is which, if any, archetype to choose.
*shudder* wis 7 I could never do that, respect to ya man. -2 will will always suck. That said, falchion/greatsword/Glaive all good 2handed weapons.
personally, I love the normal paladin, theonly archetype I have used other than that is the warrior or light one. The others seem meh, shining knight makes for a great low wis charater though. (but I'd only suggest i for Kingmaker)
Combat: Big ass two handed weapon. Haven't decided which one yet.
Well, as I mentioned earlier there's always using Iomedae's longsword or some other one-handed weapon in two-hands, with a quickdraw shield for protection...
|
|
WIS 7 isn't too bad. I'll play him as a bit gullible, which will help in some RP situations where a normal Paladin would oppose the action.
This situation came up last game:
Me: "What are you doing? We should not break into this house!"
Rogue: "Break in? The door is was unlocked."
Me: "oh, carry on then!"
:P
Besides, Will is a strong save for Paladins, one of my traits adds +1 to the Will save, and the Paladin class gives me +3 to all my saves. It'll be +4 at level 4 when I can bump CHA.
I plan on taking Power Attack at level 3. All power attack, all the time baby!
If you want to go really aggressive there's always the 'Templar' option: you pick up a level of Sohei Monk at 5 to use two-handed flurry of blows power attack with a temple sword while wearing mithral medium armor, pick up Dodge as your Sohei bonus feat, and then pick up the Crane Style chain with 5/7/9.
By the time it comes together at 9, you've potentially got double the attacks per round with flurry and riposte, you're moving around at full speed thanks to mithral medium armor, and when you change into a one-handed weapon grip in between attacks your AC with Dodge and Crane Style is up there with using full plate and a heavy shield.
|
|
Got me! Get your own thread ;)
LOL, JK!
Rorek: I appreciate your suggestion, and I wasn't trying to disrespect you with my response. Apologies if I offended you.
Here's my latest incarnation:
Human Paladin (Iomedae). Alternate Racial Trait: Dual Talent
STR 18 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 7 CHA 17
Feat: Fey Foundling
Traits: Dangerously Curious; Purity of Faith
Skills: UMD (max), Diplomacy (max), 1 rank in most class skills (eventually).
Combat: Big ass two handed weapon. Haven't decided which one yet.
I'm pretty set on this guy. I like him a lot.
My only final decision to make is which, if any, archetype to choose.
i wish my DM allow Fey Foundling....
you plan on mount? or weapon boosting ?
if DM allow non horse than mount is way better.
Not sure. This is for Pathfinder Society, and I'm not planning that far ahead. Right now, I'd probably say no mount.
Not sure. This is for Pathfinder Society, and I'm not planning that far ahead. Right now, I'd probably say no mount.
you plan on mount? or weapon boosting ?
if DM allow non horse than mount is way better.
I would strongly encourage weapon. Lot of medium sized cavaliers celebrate at even the hint of a mount being useable on a scenario, it is that rare. They exist, but expect it to be about 1/5 of the time or less.