Hey again all. I'm here this time to get some advice on what you all would say would make the best in your face no holds barred killing machine. One of my players decided to run his own campaign and I was tasked with making our non-magical DPS character.
Keep in mind that I'm not playing mindlessly or playing on a power trip. I will develop a full background and creative character concept too and not just shout "I KILL IT" every encounter. But, I would like to to pretty much drop anything I hit instantly. Or get as close to it as possible.
Our DM is starting us out at level 3, giving us 1000 starting gold, and allowing any race lower than CR 2 without the ability to fly or the incorporeal ability. Also, only medium or small size. We have a 25 point buy as well.
I'm thinking of dual wielding bastard swords. What do you all think? Defense is not a priority. I'll gladly sacrifice it to deal more damage. But I'd like to avoid playing a barbarian if possible.
Thanks guys!
- S.N. Rivers
Human supertitious invulnerabl rager barbarian with a two hander.
EDIT: And then I caught the ast line of the post.
Slayer.
With a two hander.
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Dual-wielding bastard swords is the exact opposite of how to get DPR.
If you want non-magical DPR, Barbarians and Archer Slayers will be your best bet. If you would be willing to mix in a bit of magic the Dawnflower Dervish Bard is great as well.
Archer Rangers deal a ton of damage per round because they get so many attacks.
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Wait a minute I'm being silly.
Abyssal Bloodrager with a two hander.
Dual-wielding bastard swords is the exact opposite of how to get DPR.
If you want non-magical DPR, Barbarians and Archer Slayers will be your best bet. If you would be willing to mix in a bit of magic the Dawnflower Dervish Bard is great as well.
What is an "Archer Slayer?" It sounds awesome.
Archer Rangers deal a ton of damage per round because they get so many attacks.
I was considering a close range gun slinger for the up close ballistic touch attacks. I've played too many rangers to want to play another, tempting as it is.
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What is an "Archer Slayer?" It sounds awesome.Dual-wielding bastard swords is the exact opposite of how to get DPR.
If you want non-magical DPR, Barbarians and Archer Slayers will be your best bet. If you would be willing to mix in a bit of magic the Dawnflower Dervish Bard is great as well.
A Slayer that uses a bow. Bows are really freaking good in Pathfinder and Slayers do a great job at using them.
A Slayer that uses a bow. Bows are really freaking good in Pathfinder and Slayers do a great job at using them.What is an "Archer Slayer?" It sounds awesome.Dual-wielding bastard swords is the exact opposite of how to get DPR.
If you want non-magical DPR, Barbarians and Archer Slayers will be your best bet. If you would be willing to mix in a bit of magic the Dawnflower Dervish Bard is great as well.
Oh, you meant the Slayer class but using a bow. For some reason, I was thinking you were referencing an archetype of some sort that was designed to destroy archers. Lol.
I'm thinking being human is my best bet then. For another ranged based feat? The only crappy thing I see is the sneak attack damage is limited to 30 feet. That'd be great if I were using a pistol. Touch sneak attack at 10 feet! Bam! But it sort of nerfs the point of a bow, doesn't it?
The Slayer basically does not care about the fact that he has sneak attack dice, you can never roll sneak attack and still be very strong.
+1 for the Kasatha Pistolero. If you dont wanna use reloading shenanigans you can just use 3 Pistols and still have one free hand for Reloading.
A Juju Zombie is great for everything that needs Cha. (You could even make a Kasatha Juju Zombie Mysterious Stranger Pistolero, since those races and Archetypes stack)
A Sasquatch is CR2 and gets +12 to Str, if you still roll/Point Buy. Could make a great Two Hander Build with this strength.
An natural attack build could also work out well, there are many creatures available with 3 or more natural attacks.
On the melee side... strength-based TWF Mutation Warrior X/ Master of Many Styles 2 who alternates between Dragon Style Pummeling Charge and falcata + Dragon Style unarmed strike full attacks, plus tacks on Cornugon Smash -> Hurtful for a bonus two-handed falcata chop every round?
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Against any kind of DR the spirited charge/ride by attack wins out.
Sure pounce is nice but against DR/5 every single attack is saved off.
Lancer is doing 1 big hit that equals 3 attacks. DR is only in effect once.
Natural attacks are some of the hardest to penetrate DR of material, alignment, and -
Also crafted weapons out of special materials is easy to come by.
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yes/no. the synthesist uses arcane strike (due to change in SLAs non-synth eidolons cannot) to in the long run bypass most DR, but it is true that arcane strike doesn't ignore cold iron & silver until level 10 and adamantine until level 15 (alignment ceases to be a serious issue at level 10 with a 1 point evolution). Blood-ragers get the same option albeit 3 levels retarded and are well served by taking eldritch claws at level 6 or 7 (full BAB class, the 3/4th BAB synth could take eldritch claws at level 9 to bypass silver but gets silver from arcane strike at level 10 instead of level 13 of the bloodrager). But that is in the long run and in actual play not starting at level 15 DR can be a problem.Against any kind of DR the spirited charge/ride by attack wins out.
Sure pounce is nice but against DR/5 every single attack is saved off.
Lancer is doing 1 big hit that equals 3 attacks. DR is only in effect once.
Natural attacks are some of the hardest to penetrate DR of material, alignment, and -
Also crafted weapons out of special materials is easy to come by.
Arcane Strike specifically only bypasses DR/Magic.
As for DPR, anybody say Ranger yet? Can take best TWF feats without DEX requirements. At Level 11 he picks up Shield Master and dual weilds Heavy Shields without any penalty to his attack roles. Add in some castings of Swift Action Spell, "Instant Enemy," and you have quite the recipe for Devastation.
Flexible bonus feats are a pretty useful thing to have. Picking up what you need when you need it can certainly help.
Not to mention the simple joy of having 6/7 feats when you would normally have 4/5. Me and a friend planned out an angel-blooded 'holy rage' Barbarian 1/ Warsighted Lore Oracle for him, where needing things like Extra Rage and Divine Protection ate all the normal feats. Then along comes Warsighted, and Cornugon Smash -> Hurtful is an easy level 7 combo grab that can be switched out any time it doesn't work. As far as the OP goes, a Divine-Favor-buffed raging Oracle flailing a Greater Magic Weapon +2->+4 furious, courageous greatsword around is a pretty brutal contender.
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But we are talking level 3. Where DR/silver and cold iron is a thing.
At 3 a halfling lancer is doing 1d6+9 x3. Minimum 30 damage on a non-favored target with a ride by from the ceiling out of everything's reach. Can afford a MW cold iron weapon and a +1 lance if he wants making it +10 to damage instead of 9.
Flexible bonus feats are a pretty useful thing to have. Picking up what you need when you need it can certainly help. And, yanno, they're super-SAD 9th level casters.A few flexible bonus feats does not make a non-melee class into a dpr machine. At best, it makes them somewhat competent in melee.
His self-buffs could later on though. OP specifically asked for a non-magic character however. Oracle should be out.
MOunted Combat in general tops DPR, I agree. The "Undersized Mount" feat now allows non-small characters to be mounted combatants in dungeon. I'd say play a Sasquatch Cavalier or Mounted Fury Barbarian.
Orc Two-Handed fighter. Yes not as snazy or probably as powerful as some of the builds on here but simple and can hit real hard.
Nemesis, Toughness & Power Attack. Take the orc fighter level bonus and hp bonuses.
Max strength & con. Str22, Con17
HP at 3rd level assuming pfs hp with max level one and 6 each additional level for a fighter plus level bonus plus con plus toughness that's 37 hp and with ferocity you should be able to fight to like -20hp.
Just don't get mind controlled. :)
Exchanging one fighter level for one barbarian level is a good idea.
Also, I'll vote for the small sized cavalier as a potent damage dealer. :)
not when that rogue has dem sneak attackseasy, best DPR is a TWF rogue all up in dat grill.Actually a lot of things leave that in the dust. Two handed power attack, mounted cheating, pouncing natural attacks, etcetera all out damage a twf rogue.
Not really, he lacks to hit bonus and needs more diverse stats. Even if you were true the Ninja or Vivisectionist Alchemist(make it Beastmorph for pouncing Natural attack+Sneak) have Sneak attack and better Combat abillities.
Orc Two-Handed fighter. Yes not as snazy or probably as powerful as some of the builds on here but simple and can hit real hard.
Nemesis, Toughness & Power Attack. Take the orc fighter level bonus and hp bonuses.
Max strength & con. Str22, Con17
HP at 3rd level assuming pfs hp with max level one and 6 each additional level for a fighter plus level bonus plus con plus toughness that's 37 hp and with ferocity you should be able to fight to like -20hp.
Just don't get mind controlled. :)
Exchanging one fighter level for one barbarian level is a good idea.
Exchanging the Orc for Sasquatch is even better...
I'll look up the stats for a Sasquatch.
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Why has no one suggested a swashbuckler? I haven't taken the time to hash out a DPR calc to prove it but in my opinion they can out damage and out tank almost every melee build except very specific, such as rage lance pounce, which require circumstances to play and are uber cheese.
Plus level 3 is where the swashbuckler really takes off.
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probably because they start to lose out on the stacking class features of damage that other classes have at mid to high levels.
Hmm I guess I fail to see how. He gains +1 damage per level, if you pick inspired build for rapier at 5th another +2 damage then +1 every 4 levels after that, access to weapon specialization, dex to damage right off the bat. He doesn't need fancy features he is always a killing machine.
For defense, he has parry (which also boosts dpr with riposte), class bonus to dodge, and multiple times add charisma mod to any saving throw.
A few flexible bonus feats does not make a non-melee class into a dpr machine. At best, it makes them somewhat competent in melee.
Don't be too quick to dismiss what a 3/4 'caster' class can do in melee when it's well built (possibly with a dip) and buffed.
If the gap between 3/4 and full BAB is -1BAB/4 levels, just casting Divine Favor/Power with Fate's Favored is +1ab, +1ab/3 levels. If full BAB Power Attack sometimes pulls ahead by 3 damage, Divine Favor/Power adds +1 damage, +1 damage/3 levels. If full BAB has a -5 iterative attack two levels sooner, Divine Power can provide a self-haste effect from mid-level on.
Buffing isn't always easy or even possible, but some builds like the raging Oracle I mentioned above can work a 3/4 BAB class into something that goes from competent without a self-cast buff to monstrous with one. It's easy to focus on generalities, but the devil's often in the details.
On that note, I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned TWF. Sure it's the weaker option in general. But working around it's limitations can, with some classes and features, start to turn having twice as many attacks into a serious advantage.
Why has no one suggested a swashbuckler? I haven't taken the time to hash out a DPR calc to prove it but in my opinion they can out damage and out tank almost every melee build except very specific, such as rage lance pounce, which require circumstances to play and are uber cheese.
Plus level 3 is where the swashbuckler really takes off.
Because even if they weren't annoyingly squishy, the Daring Champion Cavalier has his major damage boost, plus keeps the Cavalier's damage boosts on top of it.