Are alchemist mutagens considered poison?

[Karv]

Good evening. I've scoured every nook and cranny searching for this so it seems I'll have to ask here:

I'm trying to have someone drink a mutagen another alchemist crafted in order to get them nauseated (and consequently, killed). I have knowledge that they're immune to poison... but do mutagens count?

It seems simple but never have I found an explicit answer so I'd rather have someone tell me what they think.

[Joesi]

That's a really good question in my opinion.

Whether or not it's classified as a poison would have deeper ramifications than just this scenario. It could potentially be used with Poison Conversion and weaponized. Most people would probably call that overpowered.

So at the least, it would only be treated as a poison for purposes of immunity and saving throws, not outright.

That said, I have a tendency to think that because mutagens are magical in nature that they would bypass a poison immunity, but it's iffy ground. It also depends on the creature in question too, since I'd say something like a construct or undead would not be effected by such a thing since they could not absorb or digest it or anything like that (although it gets iffy with something like a vampire; they could maybe be affected)

[Claxon]

Rules wise, no they are not.

However, as a GM I would not allow this to work. Causing creatures to be nauseated is supposed to prevent other players from using the alchemists mutagens. It is not supposed to be a weapon to cause enemies to be have a no save nauseated effect.

[HyperMissingno]

Claxon wrote:

Rules wise, no they are not.

However, as a GM I would not allow this to work. Causing creatures to be nauseated is supposed to prevent other players from using the alchemists mutagens. It is not supposed to be a weapon to cause enemies to be have a no save nauseated effect.

I don't know what you're talking about but it has a save.

Mutagen wrote:

A non-alchemist who drinks a mutagen must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 the alchemist's level + the alchemist's Intelligence modifier) or become nauseated for 1 hour

[Claxon]

Hmmm, I was thinking it didn't have a save for some reason.

Still, my point remains. It wasn't made to be a weapon or to be used in the way the OP wants. As a GM I wouldn't allow it to be used in this way.

[Jeff Merola]

You're reading pretty far into things that aren't written to declare what the intent was.

[Scavion]

It works.

[HyperMissingno]

I dunno, longswords weren't meant to be thrown and yet the alchemist in my party throws them better than a few fighters swing them. Not a far stretch to use the mutagen as a weapon.

[Rynjin]

No, they're not. It does not say they are poisons, so they aren't.

Which is good, because if they were Alchemists would eventually become immune to their own Mutagens.

[LazarX]

I would imagine that an Alchemist would be smart enough to know whether or not the mutagen he's imbibing has his own personal flavor and not quaff it after the first taste.

At the most, you'll get him to waste an action, and put him off using his own mutagens until he can check them later.

[Joesi]

Claxon wrote:

Rules wise, no they are not.

However, as a GM I would not allow this to work. Causing creatures to be nauseated is supposed to prevent other players from using the alchemists mutagens.

Aside from the fact there is a save as he pointed out, if the developers wanted it so mutagens weren't used by others, they would simply give it no effect to non-alchemists using it, rather than a negative one.

LazarX wrote:

I would imagine that an Alchemist would be smart enough to know whether or not the mutagen he's imbibing has his own personal flavor and not quaff it after the first taste.

At the most, you'll get him to waste an action, and put him off using his own mutagens until he can check them later.

Alchemists can use other alchemists' mutagens just fine. I presume the OP is referring to a non-alchemist, despite the —presumably inappropriate— use of the word "another"

[_Ozy_]

Hmm, combine that with poisoner's gloves...

[Zwordsman]

I'd count it as one. but i'm on the side of rull of cool

[Cavall]

Simple as this. They are not poisons. Alchemists can become immune to poison. But the mutagen still work. Therefore, not a poison.

[Zwordsman]

The problem with that is that the item in specific specifies it's not harmful to the alchemist, and only to anyone else. Thats where the hiccups are coming from.

I don't think there are any beneifts of poison.. but there are items already that exist as one category only for specific situations. So there is a vague premise for examining the classification on it.

though the lack of saying "naseua effect is a poison effect" does tend to specify it doesn't count as a poison.

Though totally would allow one to use it in a similar poison fashion.
Though I imagine it tastes bad so not really something to slip into drinks i imagine.

[Albatoonoe]

Not anymore than rotten food. Is rotten food considered a poison?

[_Ozy_]

Albatoonoe wrote:

Not anymore than rotten food. Is rotten food considered a poison?

Often, yes.