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Its hard to believe these playtest document is actually more than a couple of months old now but it is.
I managed to get in just in time to get my Nagaji Spiritualist off the ground. He joined the Pathfinder Society because of his Spirit, which is the Spirit of a former Pathfinder Agent who died in battle (a barbarian).
However I havnt really heard all that much (or seen that much ) in here on people talking about their Occult classes in here in games. Locally Im the only person who is playing one of the playtest classes which makes it hard to talk to others about it.
Ive also noticed sadly that Ive yet to see any Scenarios with references to Psychic pheonmena or the like. No enemies either with any links to psychic activity.
I have managed to get to 3.2 from playing and dm credits. Ive had a lot of fun going between an angrier possessed character to a calmer solo Spiritualist.
How are other peoples Occult playtest classes going?
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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I participated with the playtest, but could not play a playtest character in PFS due to to the usual limits.
As written the PFS legal parts of the playtest classes, are pretty unclear and in some cases a bit broken, I expect some substantial changes in the final book. Some of those classes were/are so ridiculously complicated that it will takes GMs quite a long time to understand them.
Oh and expect people multiclassing to get proper armor and weapon proficiency.
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I still play my Occult playtest character, also a Spiritualist oddly enough. A Silver Crusader with an Amateur Swashbuckler Phantom of Hatred. I enumerated my issues (and positive experiences!) with the class a fair bit during the playtest. My Spiritualist is currently level 4, one session from 5.
My feelings on the class haven't really changed in the meantime. It still strikes me as a badly over-nerfed copy of the summoner class with fantastic roleplaying flavor. Due to the loss of early-entry Haste, my primary contribution the past couple of scenarios has been using scrolls of Haste (also the Open/Close cantrip, and a bit of incorporeal Phantom mischief).
I look forward to... uh... level 7, I guess? That's the next time the Phantom gets another ability and the Spiritualist gets 3rd level spells. No other class feature really does anything. Pretty painful stretch between 4 and 7...
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Exguardi: Excellent, I wish you were a local player so I could discuss how my Phantom has been going. He just seems so.. bland at the moment. And my spell selection comes down to 4 level 1 spells.
I have managed to use the go through Walls thing a few times.. Thats been REALLY useful, but I often feel a little sad when I look at my spell choices. Am also Silver Crusade.
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I'd be very interested in seeing all of your spiritualist builds. How do you guys feel they do at contributing to their parties?
My spiritualist is currently parked at level 3 (just bumped him up from 2.2 with some GM credit). Per BNF, I've been avoiding playing him because I want to keep my options open. I'm especially concerned since I don't really have a good feel for what the class is supposed to do so I don't know what I'm building towards.
I find myself wanting to play the character but unwilling to...saddle a party with him.
A bit more back on topic, the only other Occult character I've seen locally is SammyT's Kineticist. He's level 8 now, I think.
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Redward: Isnt that the whole point of testing the class out? I can always build a new one later.Yeah, but the playtest is over, so they aren't really looking for more feedback at this time. And credit that's taken up by a character that you don't want to play anymore, for whatever reason, is credit that's not on a character you do want to play. Credit is a finite resource, you know, and not everyone has access to the same amount for new characters.
Pretty much this. I don't want to remake the same character (in general), I don't want to 'waste' the credit already applied to this character, I don't want to suffer through level 1 again (especially not with a spiritualist).
So now I'm waiting for the book to come out and hoping they found a niche for the class and that I guessed right on my ability score array/phantom choice.
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I'd be very interested in seeing all of your spiritualist builds. How do you guys feel they do at contributing to their parties?
I will post my Spiritualist build at his current level (4) when I am at my computer. In the interim I can say that my Spiritualist is capable of contributing to the party even when "out of his league" (his last game was playing up at level 4 in a 3-7)... but only due to smart positioning, creative use of his very limited spell selection, a unique feat from an adventure path no one has ever heard of, and a good scroll library to boot.
The Spiritualist and his Phantom would not be able to carry a beleaguered party in the same way the Summoner could. The Spiritualist also is a nerve-wracking experience as far as managing his Phantom; if it is incorporeal it is safer (although by no means immune to death) but can't contribute to combat well. If it is ectoplasmic it is extremely likely to die vs. level-appropriate foes with moderate to-hit bonuses, as its strange DR is easily bypassed and its AC, while initially very high, tapers off more quickly than an Eidolon's. If the Phantom dies, the Spiritualist fails to unlock any additional power like the Summoner's Summon Monster-- in fact the only way to gain (minor) bonuses from the Phantom is to never release it from the Spiritualist's psyche.
Additionally, I've been most frustrated due to retaining the legacy one minute summoning time on manifesting the Phantom. It feels like the only way to ever benefit from the perks of a non-manifested Phantom, the perks of an incorporeal Phantom, and the perks of an ectoplasmic Phantom would be to drastically reduce the time required to pop the Phantom between states.
I feel that unlike the Summoner the Spiritualist has an extremely low optimization floor, and in many cases the Spiritualist player will feel rapidly outclassed as he levels and the novelty of a companion that can walk through walls wears off.
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I'm loving my Wayang Occultist. His ability to do everything pretty well fits really well into PFS tables. No one can heal? Okay, I've got that. Need a frontliner? I'll be a little squishy, but I'll bring out the +2 keen holy adamantine nodachi. Oh, what's this weird thing? It's clearly a minor artifact.
My only disappointment is that he's getting pretty close to retiring (he was built off GM credit, so he started at level 4) so I won't get to play him for that much longer.
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I will say that the only Occult classes I still see in use in my area are, appropriately, Occultists. They do a decent Magus impression (or possibly Inquisitor) with the benefit of being able to gain major combat boosts in certain PFS scenarios due to their Transmutation implement. The ability to choose different Bane types for their primary weapon is quite strong in PFS where you're often told "go kill Tengu" or "go kill robots."
...
The Occultist also seems to be easy to play for newer players with a bit of coaching on spell selection, as a smart young dude in my area picked up Occultist for his first Pathfinder character and has had no trouble swaggering through some decently difficult scenarios to level 4 (maybe 5 now).
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I'm very interested in the Occultist. That or a Medium would have been my second playtest character had a game not been canceled last-minute.
Exguardi, my experiences closely mirror your own. Since I knew my Spiritualist would never be able to keep up as a melee combatant or as an offensive caster, I tried to hedge my bets and focus on skill points, scrolls, and other means of supporting a party.
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I will say that the only Occult classes I still see in use in my area are, appropriately, Occultists. They do a decent Magus impression (or possibly Inquisitor) with the benefit of being able to gain major combat boosts in certain PFS scenarios due to their Transmutation implement. The ability to choose different Bane types for their primary weapon is quite strong in PFS where you're often told "go kill Tengu" or "go kill robots."
...The Occultist also seems to be easy to play for newer players with a bit of coaching on spell selection, as a smart young dude in my area picked up Occultist for his first Pathfinder character and has had no trouble swaggering through some decently difficult scenarios to level 4 (maybe 5 now).
How are they emulating a Magus? I've been playing mine as a Wizard through and through. I have run out of spells once with him, but was able to weasle a few staff hits in.
Has anyone had experience with the Medium?
It seems like a crazy fun class concept (more so to Penny Dreadful fans like me). But although I like the idea that the Medium is a versatile class that can fill any role just by changing spirits, I don't really feel like his spirit powers pay off. Most powers just feel really weak or too much situational. The Demon's Lantern spirit for example is pretty cool, but he seems kind of useless at low levels.
I've been self-playtesting an Occultist myself and while it was probably inexperience on my part, and low level testing (I do this because that's what almost all games I actually get to play are) I didn't notice all that much power. I loved the flavor of it though.
I do kind of hope they make some sort of a tattooed occultist archetype, maybe using tattooes as their implements. But they probably won't and that's fine.
I also self-tested the kineticist, and that was actually pretty fun. Of course they didn't have many options in terms of the talents available, but they already said why and that's fine.
Both the occultist and kineticist from the playtest need a bit of power boosting from my point of view. In terms of the medium, I want to try them but they're sort of intimidating and confusing to me when reading through them. I do like their concept though. I guess I'd need a guide to them, showing step by step how they work, and that won't come until the classes are actually out.
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Has anyone had experience with the Medium?
It seems like a crazy fun class concept (more so to Penny Dreadful fans like me). But although I like the idea that the Medium is a versatile class that can fill any role just by changing spirits, I don't really feel like his spirit powers pay off. Most powers just feel really weak or too much situational. The Demon's Lantern spirit for example is pretty cool, but he seems kind of useless at low levels.
Part of the problem is we've only seen a fraction of the total available spirit powers, and it looks like their true strength is in how they interact with each other. The other issue is it looks like it takes at least a few levels before they really start to pay off. I imagine we'll see some pretty impressive combos once the min-moptimizers have had a crack at it.
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I suspect the kineticist will become the overwhelming favorite Occult class.
I greatly enjoy my L8 Geokineticist, even in his semi-gimped form. I look forward to the book's release so I can have more utility out of combat (via boosted skillpoints and new Kineticist powers).
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I suspect the kineticist will become the overwhelming favorite Occult class.
I greatly enjoy my L8 Geokineticist, even in his semi-gimped form. I look forward to the book's release so I can have more utility out of combat (via boosted skillpoints and new Kineticist powers).
Probably. Conceptually, it's the easiest to wrap your head around, what with the wealth of pop culture analogs. And while still kind of fiddly, it's way less complex than the Occultist or Medium.
And it's good at doing the thing it's supposed to do, which I've found makes a bit of a difference. *cough* spiritualist *cough*
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How are they emulating a Magus?
I was referring to the fact that the Occulist is a a 3/4 BAB more-or-less arcane spellcaster with a powerful ability to enhance their weapon, including some temporary boosts that draw from a pool of "points" that is driven based off of their INT modifier.
Does that make more sense now?
In terms of how they compare to the Inquisitor, the Inquisitor has a non-traditional spell list and the ability to apply different types of Bane to their weapon on a daily basis (although even less restrictive than the Occultist, albeit lasting less total time).
Redward, I got distracted with the huge SLA ruling and other things today, I will post my Spiritualist build in a bit for those who are interested.
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OK, a bit, a couple of hours, same difference. I do not use Hero Lab so this is just a rough outline typed out off the top of my head, copy-pasting applicable stuff from my post on the playtest boards.
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STR: 8
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 23 (+2 Enhancement)
CHA: 7
Traits: Reactionary, Magical Lineage (Spiritual Weapon)
Feats: Cry of Mercy, Improved Initiative, Toppling Spell
Spells Known:
1) Expeditious Retreat; Shield; Cause Fear; Magic Fang
2) Spiritual Weapon; Aid
Notes: Jyin-Gua is entirely focused on mastery of psychic magic. His preferred tactics are to buff Yng-Hua with defensive magic, and cast Toppling Spiritual Weapon to damage and trip foes. Jyin-Gua worships Shizuru, the Empress of Heaven, who provides a katana with an 18-20 critical threat range. If pressed, Jyin-Gua will trigger one of his scrolls of higher-level spells such as Haste. Jyin-Gua prefers to travel with Yng-Hua manifested at all times, confident in his high Will save and judging the Skill Focus bonus feats given by keeping the Phantom in his psyche inadequate. Jyin-Gua is a reluctant member of the Silver Crusade, and relies on his ability to utter a Cry of Mercy to stave off unnecessary bloodshed, being a poor hand at Diplomacy.
Yng-Hua, Phantom (Hatred) LN
Standard Phantom ability scores, Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, combat bonus "Hated Target"
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Amateur Swashbuckler, Combat Reflexes
Skills: Acrobatics: +8, Perception: +6, Bluff: +20 (to lie), UMD: +10
Notes: Yng-Hua uses a Plume of Panache each morning to maximize her panache. Yng-Hua is very single-minded and will engage in any necessary tactics to defeat Jyin's enemies, including misdirecting foes outside of combat using her Mask of Stony Demeanor. When in incorporeal form, Yng-Hua will often Feint to trick the enemy into believing that she is capable of threatening them in combat. She has Darkvision, but can use her Wand of Unwelcome Halo to give her brother visibility in magical darkness. Yng-Hua attacks using her Slams in Ectoplasmic form, and uses her wand of Long Arm whenever possible to give herself increased tactical options with reach.
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Obviously this isn't a perfectly optimized character, but I tried to hit upon the points that I think are important for playing a Spiritualist. The Spiritualist himself focuses entirely on spellcasting, and leaves all physical altercations to his Phantom. He makes the best possible use of wands and his limited spells known to provide as many buffs to his Phantom and to the party as possible, while leveraging any battlefield control options he can. The Phantom makes the best use of her skills that she can, including using her high CHA to UMD wands for additional combat options.
By splitting the character into two halves in this fashion, sharing slots with the Phantom becomes far less painful. The Phantom does not need a headband slot item, but the Spiritualist does; similarly, the Spiritualist does not need a neck slot item, but the Phantom will need an Amulet of Mighty Fists. And so on and so forth.
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I have a level 1 telekineticist that I have been toying with for later levels. Greater Self Telekinesis, with the ability to do an attack after blasting forward sounds quite fun...... Just have Boots of the Cat, and some pretty gnarly drops can happen..... Or some form of flight, such as Starfaring Robes.....
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OK, a bit, a couple of hours, same difference. I do not use Hero Lab so this is just a rough outline typed out off the top of my head, copy-pasting applicable stuff from my post on the playtest boards.
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** spoiler omitted **...
Thanks! I shied away from a high-Wis build because I felt that a 6th-level caster just wouldn't be able to keep up in the saves department. Toppling spiritual weapon is an interesting approach since neither aspect depends on the spell level, plus you're making use of the 3/4 BAB. The relatively few spells/day is a limiting factor, but one should last a whole combat.
Very nice.
Right now my biggest struggle is making a non-Hatred Phantom useful as anything other than a scout/tanky hp sponge. Losing Haste at L4 was devastating.
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There are some very unusual tricks you can get up to with, I believe, the Fear Phantom. I don't have the book on me but I believe the idea was to lurk in incorporeal form, and frighten enemies with a combination of Dazzling Display and the Fear Phantom's 7th-level aura. There may have been another feat involved that I am overlooking.
Another thought I had was leveraging the Antagonize feat on a Jealousy Phantom. Again making use of incorporeal form to be very resilient to assault, and forcing enemies to focus their fire upon the relatively-unkillable Phantom instead of the Spiritualist's mortal allies.
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Another thought I had was leveraging the Antagonize feat on a Jealousy Phantom. Again making use of incorporeal form to be very resilient to assault, and forcing enemies to focus their fire upon the relatively-unkillable Phantom instead of the Spiritualist's mortal allies.
That's exactly what I'm working towards with mine.
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*Jealousy-five*
I actually did not go with that concept because I thought it would be too swingy. Either it would obviate the combat (vs. single foes, or foes unable to be Antagonized) or it wouldn't do enough (vs. hordes of foes).
That's not entirely true, I did try it out at level one in the Confirmation. Can confirm, obviated the end boss. Or at least the facet of the end boss confrontation that makes it particularly difficult.
As mentioned early by WiseWolfOfYoitsu and Exguardi, Occultist being able to put bane on their weapons by level 2 or 3 is somewhat of an issue in PFS. Was this intended? Magus had the ability to do that in the playtest but it was removed before the class went to it's final version. Anyone know if this will be errata'd at a later date?
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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As of right now, I don't know of any errata, but most of the previous erratas came out of nowhere. It could drop tomorrow, it could drop in a year or so.
The Occultist is really badly written, it needs so many clarifications. One of my issues is that there aren't any line breaks in the Implements/Focus Powers section, where some things could really benefit from it. Some implements read really weirdly because of it.
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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As mentioned early by WiseWolfOfYoitsu and Exguardi, Occultist being able to put bane on their weapons by level 2 or 3 is somewhat of an issue in PFS. Was this intended? Magus had the ability to do that in the playtest but it was removed before the class went to it's final version. Anyone know if this will be errata'd at a later date?
Its probably not going to be because its not exactly an issue at all and honestly doesn't remove the Occultist being able to trivialize encounters at all with that ability. It also is a standard action unlike the other abilities so unless you play support its not exactly going to be helping you all that much since you waste a round.
Its probably not going to be because its not exactly an issue at all and honestly doesn't remove the Occultist being able to trivialize encounters at all with that ability. It also is a standard action unlike the other abilities so unless you play support its not exactly going to be helping you all that much since you waste a round.
Well we can agree to disagree on that point.