| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I saw Deep Magic getting recommended, but to be honest that's one product I'm definitely unsure of as a DM. I haven't looked through much of the spell options, but some of the Mysteries and Bloodlines threw up some red flags for me even though they do have some really cool ideas that I greatly enjoy (By My Name You Shall Call Me from the Old Gods Mystery, though it's a bit much...). Some of the options just seem to straight up put the Paizo options to shame; that's not necessarily a bad thing depending on the kind of game you want, but it's enough to make me not want to allow the book unconditionally as a DM.
1. Old Gods Mystery, Festival of the Servants. 1/day, full round action (eventually Greater) Planar Ally for free. Comparable to the Paizo Wizard True Name discovery, but with no inherent risk of backfire and changeable each day.
2. Void Mystery, Absence of Body. Scaling DR/Force up to DR 15.
3. Void Mystery, Stare into the Abyss. Auto stagger enemies for 1d4 rounds if your spell does at least 15 damage to them.
4. Aboleth Bloodline, Tentacles. Get 4 15ft reach touch attacks that each deal 1d6 of acid per level, so 60d6 acid as a full round attack when first received. Can also be used a number of times per day equal to charisma mod, so it's a huge amount of offense potentially packed into a single power.
5. Ghoulish Bloodline, Ghoulish Chill. "Immobilizes" (no clear idea what that is supposed to mean mechanically, so open for interpretation) a living target with a touch, has a strange DC (10+level, not 1/2) without saying what kind of save it is.
I saw Deep Magic getting recommended, but to be honest that's one product I'm definitely unsure of as a DM. I haven't looked through much of the spell options, but some of the Mysteries and Bloodlines threw up some red flags for me even though they do have some really cool ideas that I greatly enjoy (By My Name You Shall Call Me from the Old Gods Mystery, though it's a bit much...). Some of the options just seem to straight up put the Paizo options to shame; that's not necessarily a bad thing depending on the kind of game you want, but it's enough to make me not want to allow the book unconditionally as a DM.
** spoiler omitted **
I have similar problems with a couple spells. Overall, I love the book and have no regrets purchasing it, but there are somethings that are over-the-top strong if you ask me. Perhaps that is due to vague wording in some cases.
For what it's worth, Deep Magic was nominated for Best RPG Supplement of 2014 by the Escapist :)
I'm not trying to say Deep Magic is bad, so much as I'm saying that at times the editing could have been better and some options were perhaps not as thoroughly thought out as they could have been. The book has a lot of nice things and cool ideas, but I don't feel everything is balanced enough for me as a DM to allow all options in it without reviewing them first on a case by case basis.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
For what it's worth, Deep Magic was nominated for Best RPG Supplement of 2014 by the Escapist :)I'm not trying to say Deep Magic is bad, so much as I'm saying that at times the editing could have been better and some options were perhaps not as thoroughly thought out as they could have been. The book has a lot of nice things and cool ideas, but I don't feel everything is balanced enough for me as a DM to allow all options in it without reviewing them first on a case by case basis.
Oh sure! Of course, that's a good rule for ANY new product, even one from Paizo! :)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Oh sure! Of course, that's a good rule for ANY new product, even one from Paizo! :)For what it's worth, Deep Magic was nominated for Best RPG Supplement of 2014 by the Escapist :)I'm not trying to say Deep Magic is bad, so much as I'm saying that at times the editing could have been better and some options were perhaps not as thoroughly thought out as they could have been. The book has a lot of nice things and cool ideas, but I don't feel everything is balanced enough for me as a DM to allow all options in it without reviewing them first on a case by case basis.
*cough cough* Divine Protection *cough cough*
Gotta love giving Oracles Charisma to saves! To a lesser extent Cha to saves for Clerics if they decide to do a Cha build.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
*cough cough* Divine Protection *cough cough*
Gotta love giving Oracles Charisma to saves! To a lesser extent Cha to saves for Clerics if they decide to do a Cha build.
True enough, but if you really want to see material that should never have been printed look at the Sacred Geometry feat; wow, who though that was a good idea. Still things like that are rare enough for me to give Paizo (along with Dreamscarred Press) the benefit of the doubt and allow anything they make by default until shown good reason to do otherwise.
Yeah, usually horrible mistakes like that are rare. Even for companies I don't have as strong a relationship with as DSP I rarely see "mistake" material. If I do it's usually pretty isolated and easily houseruled out.
|
|
That said, if Kobold Press ever wants to release a Deep FEATS that does the same thing for martials as Deep Magic does for casters in presenting tons of delicious options and variant styles of doing what you do, my wallet is up for it.
Well, it's not nearly as huge and expansive as Deep Magic, but the New Paths Compendium, also from Kobold Press has a pretty large feats chapter, and many of those feats are geared toward martial types.
In addition,the New Paths Compendium has a section called "Scaling Combat Feats" which addresses the 'problem' of feat chains and goes a long way toward bumping up the power level and fun of martial/combat types.
Oh sure! Of course, that's a good rule for ANY new product, even one from Paizo! :)For what it's worth, Deep Magic was nominated for Best RPG Supplement of 2014 by the Escapist :)I'm not trying to say Deep Magic is bad, so much as I'm saying that at times the editing could have been better and some options were perhaps not as thoroughly thought out as they could have been. The book has a lot of nice things and cool ideas, but I don't feel everything is balanced enough for me as a DM to allow all options in it without reviewing them first on a case by case basis.*cough cough* Divine Protection *cough cough*
Gotta love giving Oracles Charisma to saves! To a lesser extent Cha to saves for Clerics if they decide to do a Cha build.
At the same time, divine grace is crazy on an oracle / paladin / sorcerer because those classes can practically eschew all other stats (or a majority of other stats) in favor of Charisma. You'll have a rough time piling your ability scores into Charisma on a Cleric, Warpriest, or Inquisitor. If the feat had just excluded oracles by not listing the mystery class feature, it would have been fine.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Personally I think Divine Grace would have been a perfect feat to be Warpriest and Inquisitor specific since it's pretty easy to build a Cleric that doesn't interact with their enemies except through Dispel Magic. One such Cleric wouldn't need a huge wisdom or much physical stat investment.
Also Alex, I'm looking forward to that next Pact Magic Kickstarter! I'm planning to wait for that instead of buying volumes 1&2.
I'm just going to be saying what others have said here :P
Dreamscarred Press is simply great. They're the devils that got me hooked on 3rd party publishing (and eventually making it myself). Their stuff is interesting, fun, flavorful, and balanced. I recommend Ultimate Psionics!
From there on out, there are a lot of good options. Interjection Games makes unique classes and has a wonderful Truenamer. Raging Swan has amazing GM tools/advice. Frog God has awesome monsters. Legendary Games is the go-to for 3pp mythic. Oh! And Drop Dead Studios' Spheres of Power is fantastic! Kobold Press is quite popular and makes very pretty books (I've got some gripes with editing and the balance of spells/player options in Deep Magic, but there are plenty in there that it isn't the end of the world if you ban a couple.)
Check out http://www.endzeitgeist.com if you want to know what to get and what to avoid!
It's hard to go wrong with anything on bookrat's list on the first page.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Thank you very much for your input Alex. I just want to note that I'm the original poster for this thread, so giving me my own post as a reference is kind of funny. :)
Also, endzeitgeist is the second poster. I put his website on my favorites list almost immediately. :)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thanks for the great advice everyone. I really don't know what I want, I just thought that I should force myself to give 3PP a chance, since I never have before.
I guess one place I can start is to ask my players what they want and then to find appropriate 3PP material that covers their playing preferences. This would be in terms of character classes, abilities, etc...
As a GM, I'm aways on the look out for good modules, especially in galorian. One things I'd like to do is run some of the classic 1e modules, so if anyone knows of some good conversion material, I'd be interested in that. Or something that has the same feel as some of the classics. But really, I'm open.
I'm basically trying to force myself to try something new and to try something that I've been hesitant to try before.
If you're an old school fan, you should check out Raging Swan Press' Shadowed Keep on the Borderland for a fun old school module.
If you're looking for class optionos, the Rogue Genius series has plenty of fascinating classes such as the Time Thief, Time Warden and Dragon Rider.
You've already discovered Dreamscarred's Ultimate Psionics (or Psionics Unleashed) so check out their book on psionic NPCs Psionics Embodied or their amazing Psionic Bestiary. If you want more psionic beasties, then snap up Fat Goblin's Mindblast! series especially Mindblast! Classic Monsters Augmented for a selection of psionic variants of classic monsters.
Linkied! Also, for those of you who are curious, these are written by me, and I did have a hand in some of the expanded work done for Ultimate Psionics, as well as being the writer for the Kickstarter exclusive Psionic monster book, not to mention teh introductory adventure The Opened Mind, so it's semi-officially a 3PP line for a 3PP book ;p
Also, thanks for all the shout outs on products I've had a hand in and companies I've worked with-3PP Pathfinder absolutely has a ton of great things to offer!
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
If you (or anyone else) is interested- Shadows over Vathak is now being offered as a Pay What You Want. The setting is a Lovecraftian Survival horror mash-up.
I will also suggest 1001 spells by Rite Publishing. Any book that has a 9th level wizard spell which sets an enemy aflame, burning him for 1d6 per level damage, and then flings his burning dead corpse at the enemy via telekinesis to act as an impromptu hammer, has my vote. Also this http://www.diasexmachina.com/Games-Amethyst-Renaissance2.htm It fits into Iron Gods as a nice extension for tech and adaptations of tech in a fantasy environment. It's Rifts without the Palladium factor or the sometimes contrary game system.
I recently read a post by Ssalarn, here, in which he says that there are some great 3PP material out there and that there is a stigma from the old days about bad 3PP products that cause new products to do poorly.
This made me think. I'm one of those old school gamers who still holds some probably wrong beliefs about 3PP material. I've always been resistant to it, preferring to stick to Paizo (or WotC, TSR, etc...). But this post is making me think that I shouldn't be resistant to it. It's making me think that I should give them a chance.
I recently purchased Dream Scarred Press' book on psionics because my players have been wanting to play it, and that's one of the rare few I've bought. And I didn't buy it for me.
If I'm going to delve into the world of 3PP and check it out, I'd like some advice on which products are good and which to avoid. As a GM, what would you recommend for me? Who should I pay attention to in the future and who should I be wary of? What advice can you give?
Kobold Press puts out great stuff. So does Dreamscarred Press (if you like psionics) and Green Ronin. The Four Horsemen do great stuff. This is probably because all those companies employ guys who regularly freelance for Paizo like Wolfgang Baur, Sean K. Reynolds, and Steve Helt. It's worth looking into.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And if you're really insistent that material must fit Golarion, you should try Wayfinder, from Paizo Fans United!
12 issues, all free! And all vetted for canonical accuracy, by editors who game with the Paizo staff!
|
RPG Superstar 2013
|
Kobold Press puts out great stuff. So does Dreamscarred Press (if you like psionics) and Green Ronin. The Four Horsemen do great stuff. This is probably because all those companies employ guys who regularly freelance for Paizo like Wolfgang Baur, Sean K. Reynolds, and Steve Helt. It's worth looking into.
Thanks for the shout-out, Ched!
We have a little bit of a chip on our shoulders about the quality of 3PP design. It's gone form an anything goes sort of environment, to a place where talented designers can sharpen their teeth and learn from each other. Out of those fires comes some really great products, but also some experienced designers. Before Iron GM, I didn't know I wanted to design. Before Superstar, I didn't know I wanted to develop or self-publish. Now I'm a full-time Horseman. And working with quality 3PP is what got me here. Success always involves surrounding yourself with great people.
On that note, I'll say that my go-to third party publishers, for work or for content to add to my games, are Kobold Press, Rogue Genius Games, Legendary Games, and TPK Games. And while you're shopping, remember that several [url=facebook.com/fourhorsemenofficial]Four Horsemen[url] products come with free design content to add value to your purchase!
|
|
Just out of curiosity, are there adventure modules with some of these great new classes already written into them?Great question! Kobold Press definitely actively supports the NPC classes. There are new spells for them in Deep Magic, there are new archetypes for them in many of the Advanced Races line, there is plenty of support for them in the upcoming Southlands books, including the Gravebinder, a brand-new white necromancer archetype.
As for adventures, I believe a few Kobold Press adventures utilize classes from the NPC. Off the top of my head, the Raven's Call does and I know (because I wrote it:) that the upcoming adventure Shadows of the Dusk Queen definitely uses classes from the New Paths Compendium (as well as a few feats and spells!)
Quick update! Shadows of the Dusk Queen is now available :)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My favorite 3PPs, in no particular order, are Kobold Press, Dreamscarred Press, Rogue Genius Games, and Rite Publishing.
I have to add my voice to the crowd cheering for Spheres of Power by Drop Dead Studios.
A few warnings: The random magic failure tables are truly awful. And casters made using SoP will be significantly weaker than conventional casters, especially toward the high levels. If advanced talents are restricted, they are very more similar to the power of martials and still feel like spellcasters.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Four Dollar Dungeons great adventures need to be mentioned here...
Also ENWorld Publishings Zeitgeist AP.
Heck here's a thread about 3pp APs and here's one collecting 3PP settings.