I'm trying to help design a new character for a friend of mine. Here's the caveats:
-She digs martials. Her current character is a fighter, pure and simple, with power attack, the cleave chain, and lunge. She wades in, smacks stuff, etc.
-A little smattering of magic wouldn't be horrible, but let's not get too complicated, you know? She likes to wade into the thick of things, so taking rounds to self-buff is not likely.
-I don't think she'd really handle a pet too well, considering she's pretty new to the game, and just remembering her own character's abilities is a bit much.
Because it's me building the dang thing, and I have already designed half a dozen tried-and-true methods in the last few weeks, I'm looking for something a little...unusual. Yeah, I could put together your typical greater beast totem + come and get me + combat reflexes invulnerable rager barbarian, but...come on...let's get a little outside the box...at least a little.
At first I thought a martial artist/MoMS monk with barbarian for pummeling style and dragon style fun pseudo-pounce charging rage-cycling goodness would be great...but then I had my cereal crapped in by being pointed out those two archetypes of monk share capstones. So...I need a new idea.
I was also leaning towards a vital-strike-chain focused titan mauler barbarian. I know about the errata (aka absolute nerfing of the class and thus making it the most worthless archetype since the totem warrior) in regard to gripping bigger weapons, but...this is the GM's girlfriend, and he's pretty cool, and I think he'd be okay with actually wielding a two-handed larger-sized weapon given the original phrasing of the archetype.
I am, of course, open to other ideas. The point is simple, hard-smacking, effective, little pre-buffing, and, if possible, slightly unusual.
Oh, and it should "come online" by at least 7th level or earlier...and 15-pt buy so, nothing too MAD.
you ninja edit me?
what level? what point buy?
Just edited that into my original post, right at the end.
2-handed shield-bashing Ranger (or Slayer)! Works wonders!
Abyssal bloodrager
If she's already playing a brutish Str-based fighter, maybe something Dex-based like a Swashbuckler would be a good change of pace.
If she's already playing a brutish Str-based fighter, maybe something Dex-based like a Swashbuckler would be a good change of pace.
In which case I suggest Swash 1/Urban Barbarian X.
what about a dex based human fighter?
it starts out as kind of a mess but if you build something like this you'd be pretty effective by 4th:
h- weapon finesse
1- 2 weapon fighting
f1- piranha strike
f2- wf [sawtooth sabre]
3- slashing grace [sawtooth sabre]
f4- martial versatility [slashing grace]
by 'a mess at first' i really just mean that you have 2 wasted feats at 3rd level... you should still be decent at hitting (just not for much damage). weapon focus in sawtooth sabre is wasted (since you can't finesse it) but at 4th level you can now use finesse and slashing grace with all light blades (except the sawtooth sabre, lol)! dual wield kukris and enjoy.
this would be extra nice in a 15 point buy because you can really neglect your Str and focus on Dex (which gives hit, damage, AC, reflex, and init). you could even start with 18 dex (after racial) if you took 14 con, 10 str and int, 12 wis, and 8 cha.
from there you could pick up focus and specialization in kukris (or, better yet- versatility again for weapon focus, then specialization), imp/gr 2WF, and some crit feats. i like weapon training for a build like this but there are couple of archetypes you could take for flavor without sacrificing that (specifically, lore warden or mutation fighter).
straightforward? check
effective? check
different? check
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Kitsune swashbuckler with the vulpine pounce feat. Take 2 magical tail feats for some fun roleplay and magical options.
A Primalist Arcane Bloodrager trading out level 12 bloodline power for 2 gem rage powers.
A Brawler 2/ monk 2/ brawler X. Focus on trips and 1 other maneuver.
All pretty easy, fun, and straight forward.
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Heya, I just stumbled into a nice Rogue build using Savage Critical, an ogre exclusive feat that allows sneak attack to be applied in every Vital Strike or critical.
Combined with either Swashbuckler (Rogue archetype) or Thug, plus the Bandit archetype to be able to move and Vital Strike during the surprise round, this may prove to be an interesting build.
Starting out with 3 levels of Slayer grants you Vital Strike early on and some extra BAB, but you miss out on Advanced Talents. That being said, because this build cares about one big hit, medium BAB is not a huge issue.
It has quite a lot wriggle room with feats, so she can pick another specialization like Dispelling Strike, Dazzling Display or whatever.
However, Racial Heritage (Ogre) is mandatory so if that's an RP problem for her, this won't work.
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I'd go Slayer, going with a two-handed weapon.
Stats something like this:
Str 16 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 7 (before racials)
Then focusing on non-social skills and melee murdering, plus Sneak Attack when possible. It's a bit unusual basically due to sneakiness and high-ish Int. They're the skill monkey and possibly trap-specialist on top of being as good offensively as the Fighter.
Another possibility would be Daring Champion Cavalier, maybe as a Halfling. Can rock out with Fencing Grace, Charisma based stuff, and what winds up being really absurd damage on a Challenge.
Going Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 8 Cha 14 (before racials...swap Int and Wis if you like)
This build does have Tactician, Panache, and Challenge, but that shouldn't be too hard to orchestrate mechanically, especially if starting before 4th, when the Panache kicks in. Toss on the Helpful Trait and Order of the Dragon and (assuming the GM lets them stack) you've got some rather absurd bonuses you can give with Aid Another if you're fighting something immune to precision damage that you don't want to challenge...and your Challenge gives the party buffs as well.
Well, if you want something monk-ish, you could do MoMS Monk 2/Mutagenic Mauler Brawler X. Not in that order, of course, a level or two of brawler first.
It takes a round to buff, but mutagen is pretty kick-ass, especially combined with dragon style and pummeling charge.
Maybe dip bloodrager 1 for rage+extra rage feat. No rage-cyling, but a lot of strength.
How about a dervish dancer Goblin Guide Ranger, using style feats to pick up Power Attack? It only needs Dex and Wis, has spells, and lots of on-use power ups.
Reach/trip build -- wade in, smash stuff, and gradually get better at battlefield control as you go up in levels...
That really doesn't seem all that straightforward. Xp
Lol- building it isn't that straightforward but playing it would be- just close and do your best to full attack as often as possible. If you took mutation fighter, at 5th level with just that self buff (and no magic items) your base attack would be like +12-13 with +7 damage (or +10-11 with same damage if 2wf)... Piranha strike would drop you to +11 (or +9/9) but up damage bonus to +11 on each attack...
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I replied to EVERY SINGLE COMMENT, with quotes, and all that fun stuff in one post and you know what happened? When it posted, it only posted like the last 1/5 of my post.
Paizo...Paizo...I'm seeing RED here.
So, yeah, I deleted it, and now I'm just saying "Thanks for all the input; lots of great ideas" because there's no way I'm going through that again. It took over almost 40 minutes, and it's just...gone.
Me. Right now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n14t7ybrDM
Technically speaking, ranged weapon combatants are martials. In which case you could go with a myriad of archer-builds. Personally I'd recommend a Zen Archer.
"It's your turn, what do you do?"
"I fire all the arrows!"
He's "El Rey". Give him ALL the guns.
GreenTea- that sucks! At least tell us what you're going to go with though...
I replied to EVERY SINGLE COMMENT, with quotes, and all that fun stuff in one post and you know what happened? When it posted, it only posted like the last 1/5 of my post.
You need lazarus http://getlazarus.com/
GreenTea- that sucks! At least tell us what you're going to go with though...
I will. On phone at lunch break at work, so no time to go into depth, but I will probably make for or five and let her decide on the results.
Incidentally, GM is cool with Slashing Grace on light weapons since he's, ya know, not a legalistic jerk, so that opens a lot of options up.
Also, we have two rogues in the party already: a fighter dipped scout and an arcane trickster, so the skilled role is very heavily filled. We also have a...some kind of occultist from the play test, a shaman with a level dip in swashbuckler, and I am the resident wizard.
Given that party make up, a melee cleric sounds like a good option....
A high Wis build neutral (with negative channeling) cleric of Gorum with channel smite and guided hand would do well. Take destruction[rage] and strength[ferocity] for domains... The build isn't super effective if you have an unusually high number of encounters/day (or abnormally long encounters), but starting at 1st level you can stack channel smite and both domain smites on upto probably 5 greatsword attacks per day... add in divine favor and you've got a solid combatant. Pick up power attack and furious focus and you'll be good to go. On top of all that, you can use the clw wand and have the Wis to make something like hold person worth grabbing.
That is less straightforward though.
You don't NEED to go a level in Cleric for Guided Hand. You can pay an additional feat tax to get Believer's Boon for the Arctic Domain (worshipping Mwangi Shamanism perhaps), then get Channel Smite and Guided Hand without leaving the Monk class.
That being said you could just go Sensei Monk and provide your party with high DC stunning fists and bardic performance to boost their power.
You need lazarus http://getlazarus.com/Actually, Paizo needs to get real forum software instead of trying to roll their own. I believe some of the free forum packages aren't even restricted to noncommercial use these days.
Everything about these forums is terrible. The moderation is binary (delete or leave up, no infraction system or even mod editing), the quote system is broken, editing is time restricted (very bad for guides and homebrewing and anything else where ), and the text formatting is more limited than real forums have been in over a decade.
I suspect the broken, post eating, quote system is in some way responsible for thegreenteagamer's problem. If so Lazarus wouldn't really help: he'd still be unable to post it because the forum software eats long quotes.
I agree that the Paizo boards are pretty poor, but Lazarus does help. I started using it because of the Paizo boards losing a couple wall-of-text posts. Now I can just right click on the text box at the bottom of a thread and get a long list of the last twenty comments I've typed out on the boards.
Okay. Out of work, done relaxing offline for a bit, back to see the options still keep coming. You guys are great.
As I said before, I'm gonna make a handful of builds and let her choose when the time comes.
I'm gonna build a warpriest, for certain, not only because of the mentions for it, but because I've not built one yet, and I think it would be interesting. NOT a sacred fist; I'd be too tempted to try and replicate the dragon style/pummeling charge thing, and I think that ship has sailed.
Given that the spellcasting and BAB are equal to an inquisitor and the skill points are inferior, though, why not inquisitor? Or for that matter, given that the spellcasting is inferior to the cleric, and the BAB is equivalent, and the skills are the same, why not cleric? I guess, in general, I've wondered since the class came out, why choose it, when two options that seem superior exist? (I will still try to do this, but it's been on my mind for a while...)
I'm gonna also do a shield-based character, and not just 'cause Lemmy was first. I've wanted to do a dual-shield-er for a while. (Two-handed shield just seems visually weird. Even Captain America doesn't usually two-hand his shield.) Methinks Slayer or Ranger to avoid prereqs.
I am building a Zen Archer, because frankly I love that archetype, and I have not built one before. I don't think she's into archery, though, so I don't know how that will go over; who knows, I may be wrong. But if she does choose it, we won't have a meat shield, so that'll be fun!
That's three definites. I would like to choose at least two more.
Some responses (if I ignored you, I'm sorry...I did respond earlier, I swear, but the forum ate it like the greedy barstard it is!)
I already have a halfling order of the flame daring champion put together for my own use should my wizard die. I suppose I could let her use it, but it is a little complicated IMO. If I dropped OotF it probably wouldn't be as much, but it also wouldn't be as awesome.
I don't like kitsune. Sorry. It's just a thing. I don't really like animal-people. Nagaji, kitsune, catfolk, etc. Not my thing. I know it's not MY character, but I'm designing it, so I can say this. :-P
Cleric is a full caster. I don't think she can handle a full caster right now. Honestly, I even think warpriest might be a stretch, being half-caster and prepared. If I did give her a few spells, I would think spontaneous is a lot easier to play with (choosing spells, not so much, but if I covered that ground to me spontaneous would be easier for her). Ugh...maybe I should've chosen an inquisitor over a warpriest? But, like I said, I have never made a warpriest.
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Given that the spellcasting and BAB are equal to an inquisitor and the skill points are inferior, though, why not inquisitor? Or for that matter, given that the spellcasting is inferior to the cleric, and the BAB is equivalent, and the skills are the same, why not cleric? I guess, in general, I've wondered since the class came out, why choose it, when two options that seem superior exist? (I will still try to do this, but it's been on my mind for a while...)
Personally, I'd never play a Warpriest as written over those two for exactly the reasons you mention (especially Inquisitor, who I feel is very much comparable in combat and so many miles better outside it). Mostly, I'd never
That said, there are reasons to do so. Here are the things Warpriests do that those other Classes cannot:
#1: Swift-action buff spells. Inquisitors tread on the toes of this one a bit with Judgement and Bane, but even they can't buff themselves casually with their highest level spells as a Swift Action. And doing so is pretty cool.
#2: Bonus Feats. Neither of the other Classes get normal bonus Feats (Inquisitors get Teamwork Feats but that isn't quite the same). Warpriests get a lot of them (7 over 20 levels if you count Weapon Focus...only 4 less than the Fighter). And the ability to count their level as BAB and Fighter level for these Feats, which can result in some fairly nice stuff.
#3: Blessings. These are not the same as Domains, despite the name similarity, and behave very differently, providing some interesting and powerful combinations (the auto-sleep Repose combo leaps to ind).
#4: Scaling Damage. Not a huge deal usually, but if you've got your heart set on a particular weapon with low damage...well, then.
#5: This one's purely as compared to Inquisitor, but they're a prepared caster, with the full Cleric list. This means they don't get spells early, but also means that (unlike an Inquisitor) they all have access to every Remove Condition spell there is, and even Raise Dead at high levels. Potentially very handy.
My suggestions is Lore Warden+Martial Master Fighter.
No spellcasting. No need to specialize in any weapons. USe martial versatility and a healthy collection prerequisite feats to adapt to the fight at hand. Lore warden bonuses ensure your numbers stay good adn that she can shift into any combat maneuver feats she likes and be as good if not better than a specialized build in it.
I find the Zen Archer boring as hell and very little engaging but I hope she likes it.
Have you considered a cavalier? It might have a pet but at least she would be riding it, and it would help her work on positioning.
Alternatively I would suggest a monk of the empty hand or a Monk of the Seven Winds, both of which are fun archetypes that can accomplish a lot of fun things. Or any martial that goes for 3 levels into Horizon walker for Astral Terrain mastery and dominance which would let her pick up the dimensional chain of feats