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Alchemists are given the Brew Potion feat at first level. I'm wondering are they given that as a bonus to their class or could they theoretically take it if they didn't automaticaly get it. I'm rolling an investigator and I want to take that feat at 3rd level to support my group. Reading through the rules I'm getting mixed messages about this.
Can investigators take the Brew Potion feat?
Thanks and sorry if this is not the right message board.
Investigators are highly trained in the creation of mundane alchemical substances and magical potion-like extracts.
When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical item, an investigator gains a competence bonus equal to his class level on the skill check. In addition, an investigator can use Craft (alchemy) to identify potions as if using detect magic. He must hold the potion for 1 round to attempt such a check.
Like an alchemist, an investigator prepares his spells by mixing ingredients and a tiny fraction of his own magical power into a number of extracts, and then effectively casts the spell by drinking the extract. These extracts have powerful effects, but they are also bound to their creator. Extracts behave like spells in potion form, and as such their effects can be dispelled by dispel magic and similar effects, using the investigator's level as the caster level.
An investigator can create only a certain number of extracts of each level per day. His base daily allotment of extracts per day is given on Table: Investigator. In addition, he receives bonus extracts per day if he has a high Intelligence score, in the same way a wizard receives bonus spells per day.
Looks like it to me, just need to get the feat. The requirement is "Caster level 3", and near as I can tell (Though, I could be wrong, it is kinda odd when you look at it harder) your Level is your Caster Level, and hey, you even get a nice Alchemy bonus too. Just need to be at least level 3 to grab it.
I think this would go under Rules questions normally.
Good luck and have fun. :)
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Unfortunately...Alchemists and Investigators don't have caster levels.
So they don't qualify for any Feats that require one.
Alchemists get a pass because they get it as a bonus Feat. The Investigator is not so lucky.
Personally I think this is very dumb, but that's the rule. Ask your GM if he'd allow it, since it's not a huge deal.
Personally i Think yes. But Rynjin is rigth at the present it looks like the RAW is no. So i FAQd it.
As I thought. I FAQ'd it. Thanks for the input.
I already linked a FAQ that was already made that says they can't take crafting Feats because they aren't spellcasters.
There's nothing to FAQ.
You can take it, but you'll need to take the minor magic rogue talent at level 3 (or later) to get a proper caster level. It will also qualify you for Arcane Strike and other caster level based feats.
... Look at that! Thanks Rynjin!
I already linked a FAQ that was already made that says they can't take crafting Feats because they aren't spellcasters.
There's nothing to FAQ.
The FAQ does say that they plan to examine an aspect of it again later, it could hasten that. /shrug
Also, it may be possible that Investigator's are supposed to be allowed to take that feat, but no one ever noticed they couldn't. Slim and unlikely, but still, maybe.
Also, darn, looks like that oddness was counter to it after all. Did think it weird that they had excluded that standard boilerplate "caster level is equal to blah - blah" bit. Well, never said I was perfect. XD
Does seem pretty silly, especially since Investigators have almost everything Alchemists have, and receive a bonus to crafting alchemical items. Would fit perfectly, almost as much as the parent class had. :/
Edited: For making words make more sense.
Eeeyap. Like I said, it's pretty dumb. But fairly clear-cut, as far as RAW goes.
I Think that brew potion May be a special case and suggest we keep FAQing this one. It may be a errata or what ever but it seems appropiate that
Folks with alchemy Can get brew potion.
I agree. I think that alchemy levels SHOULD be treated as caster levels only in the case of Brew Potions. I do understand that it is currently not the rule however. I feel like it was easier for them to give the feat to the alchemist in the manner that they did back when they introduced it because it was the easiest way to define that alchemists get this one and no other creation feat. It is possible that investigators don't have the option of getting it as a way to 'nerf' the class a little bit (not to take too much from the parent class and ultimately making it way better). Nonetheless, it would be nice to know either way specifically for the case of the investigator if this was intentional or an oversight.
Thanks for the info, all. I'm making one and was wondering about the Brew Potion feat for her.
Once you have the feat, how do you meet the spell prerequisites for crafting without spells? Use UMD on a wand?
In the case of the alchemist, they are able to make potions of any extract of level 3 or lower they can prepare. It isn't clear to me whether they could make a potion from a wand casting using UMD.
Flagged this for wrong forum (should be rules forum) and FAQed.
Bumping this back up since I was thinking about a build the other day and wanted to take brew potion for it. Hope that this gets addressed soonish since it seems a core part of the investigators kit is underused.
EtG.
nope, they don't qualify for it.
Psychic investigator archetype ought to qualify since it replaces alchemy with psychic spells, but otherwise no they don't qualify.
Psychic investigator archetype ought to qualify since it replaces alchemy with psychic spells, but otherwise no they don't qualify.
And the Questioner archetype which is an Arcane caster.
Psychic investigator archetype ought to qualify since it replaces alchemy with psychic spells, but otherwise no they don't qualify.And the Questioner archetype which is an Arcane caster.
Ah nice. Totally forgot about that one. Haven't really looked at the investigator since Advanced Class Origins.
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Weird necro, but the rules are written in such a way as to prevent future abuses. Unfortunately, this also sometimes results in preventing things that should be completely reasonable. You should try asking your GM about it, because I couldn't see many prohibiting you from taking brew potion, if they are otherwise allowing item creation feats.
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My common sense is crying out in pain.
From memory this was a deliberate choice for investigators.
Alchemists and investigators can make extracts, but by default they can't share these extracts (they're "selfish" buffers). You'd need to take the Infusion discovery to share them.
Alchemists get Brew Potion for free at first level (because brewing potions/extracts is their main schtick). They get a discovery every 2nd level, meaning they can share extracts as early as 2nd level.
Investigators were specifically NOT given Brew Potion, because this is NOT their main schtick. They can take Infusion (to share extracts), but they get less discoveries (talents), and they get them later.
I don't really mind this either way. I understand why the devs did this (and think it's fine), but I doubt it'd break anything if you changed this rule for your games.