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So I have been doing some thinking about Iblydos of late. We know that despite what was in the first Campaign Setting book, James has said that Iblydos is a currently active country. I like the idea of it being in the Classical Period of Greece. Thus all of the ancient myths can be mined for ideas for past history. Not to mention you can do the story of the minotaur as the first minotaur and still have minotaurs across Golarion.
Cities
Democratic economic powerhouse
Dual king military society (Gorapolis)
City that is the home to a periodic athletic event
City with a major Oracle
It will be cool if Iblydos was founded by Odisseus (a.k.a. Ulysses) after wandering trough the cosmos and finding Golarion in such state of devastation during the Dark Times.
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Lots of 'classical' monsters. Chimera, harpies, manticores, hydras, titans, satyrs, Pegasi, medusa, minotaurs, etc.
Instead of having the Greek gods, like the real world Egyptian gods showing up in Osirion, perhaps the Golarion gods could be 're-envisioned' along the lines of the Greek gods.
Gozreh -> both Zeus (sky) and Poseidon (sea)
Iomedae -> Athena (wisdom, craft, battle)
Erastil -> Artemis (the hunt)
Gorum -> Ares (war)
Sarenrae -> Apollo (healing, the sun, prophecy)
Torag -> Hephaestus (the forge, fire)
Kurgess -> Herakles (strength)
Cayden Cailean -> Dionysus (drunkenness)
Shelyn -> Aphrodite (love, beauty)
Calistria -> Hera (jealousy, rulership)
Pharasma or Abadar? -> Hades (the underworld, wealth)
Urgathoa -> Hecate (magic, witches, the moon)
Lots of 'classical' monsters. Chimera, harpies, manticores, hydras, titans, satyrs, Pegasi, medusa, minotaurs, etc.
Instead of having the Greek gods, like the real world Egyptian gods showing up in Osirion, perhaps the Golarion gods could be 're-envisioned' along the lines of the Greek gods.
Gozreh -> both Zeus (sky) and Poseidon (sea)
Iomedae -> Athena (wisdom, craft, battle)
Erastil -> Artemis (the hunt)
Gorum -> Ares (war)
Sarenrae -> Apollo (healing, the sun, prophecy)
Torag -> Hephaestus (the forge, fire)
Kurgess -> Herakles (strength)
Cayden Cailean -> Dionysus (drunkenness)
Shelyn -> Aphrodite (love, beauty)
Calistria -> Hera (jealousy, rulership)
Pharasma or Abadar? -> Hades (the underworld, wealth)
Urgathoa -> Hecate (magic, witches, the moon)
I think I might be a little looser with the god to god comparison, but there are some definite easy ones on here. For example, Gorum to Ares is a no brainer, but I think there are places where you could replace say Hera with Lamashtu (or even Aphrodite as they did with the Baphomet story in Herald of the Ivory Labyrinth). Also the Golarion gods are a bit more defined to an alignment then the greek gods would have been.
Also is am thinking of doing Abadar as the main god for the Athens analogue. Then you can have a Gorum Abadar conflict for Athens vs Sparta.
The problem I have with directly correlating Gorum to Ares is that at least in the Athenian version of the myths - which is what everyone goes with - Ares was a coward.
The problem I have with directly correlating Gorum to Ares is that at least in the Athenian version of the myths - which is what everyone goes with - Ares was a coward.
I think the whole point though is to play fast and loose with those myths. Paizo doesn't make products that directly copy them. However they take the standard troupes and put their own twist on them and tie them to their world. So there is no reason you can't tweak the myths so that the God of War isn't a coward.
You almost have to tweak them since very few of the Golarion gods are CN and most of the Greek ones are.
Eh. I'd just rather they take the greek gods wholesale like they did with the Egyptians in Osiron.
Honestly I'd rather prefer that because then it wouldn't have the Osironi gods stick out so much.
The problem with the Correlating Greek Gods to Pathfinder Gods idea is that Iblydos is really old and not all the Gods are. First off you can strike out the four Ascended gods right away.
Kurgess is obviously influenced by Herakles but he's also ascended and nowhere is it mentioned that it was in Iblydos.
Plus having the Gods act differently based on region or worshipers in fine in American Gods but in Pathfinder the Gods are separate form Mortals and don't need their worship.
Having Calistria take up rulership, Urgathoa take up magic and being as neutral as Hecate, Sarenrae take up prophecy, and having the old, stuffy, slightly misogynistic Erastil become the young, slightly misandristic Artemis is just weird.
I am not sure pulling an entire other earth pantheon whole sale is a good idea. I think it worked for the Egyptian one since they are all anthropomorphic.
Also remember that the rumor is that like the Dragon Empires, Casmaron will have a different core 20 deities. I would guess most of the newer gods, except for Irori won't have a place in Casmaron. Abadar, Desna, Irori, Lamashtu, Pharasma, Sarenrae, and Shelyn all seem like safe bets since they are in the Dragon Empires as well.
Abadar, Desna, Irori, Lamashtu, Pharasma, Sarenrae, and Shelyn all seem like safe bets since they are in the Dragon Empires as well.
Actually, Sarenrae is a lock. She's the chief goddess of the Padishah Empire. I like the list you have, and I would add Asmodeus and Rovagug to boot.
Abadar, Desna, Irori, Lamashtu, Pharasma, Sarenrae, and Shelyn all seem like safe bets since they are in the Dragon Empires as well.Actually, Sarenrae is a lock. She's the chief goddess of the Padishah Empire. I like the list you have, and I would add Asmodeus and Rovagug to boot.
Good call on both of those. Rovagug is a must in Casmaron. Gorum is one I was thinking about to use for Sparta, but I think that god should be more lawful.
Shelyn is apparently venerated in Vudra. If Vudra is still considered as "part" of Casmaron and not a separate subcontinent, she would be a pretty good lock for the continent.
So Titans, there are 4 types of Titans in the Bestiaries, Elysian, Fomorian, Hekatonkheires, and Thanatotic. From those bestiaries the Titans rebelled against the gods, were betrayed by the Elysian titans, and banished from Material Plane. The Fomorian and Thantotic were banished to the Abyss, the Hekatonkheires were banished to the furthest reaches of the multiverse (same place Zon-Kuthon went?).
I like the idea of at least one Titan has escaped and is either trying to destroy the world or pull worshipers from the gods to himself. In greek myth there are the Tyrants, which are like kings, but what if the Tyrants were actually Titans.
Minotaurs: We know that Baphomet was the first minotaur and was created by a vile act of Lamashtu. However there is also the mention in Classic Monsters Revisited, that Lamshtu gifted the town of Tulo with a two headed calf which the town destroyed in horror. Lamashtu then caused all the women to become impregnated with minoatur babies. The town locked them in a maze for 10 years, after that the minotuars left the maze and killed the town.
The classic story is that King Minos didn't sacrifice the bull provided by Posideon and he had Aphrodite curse the king's wife Pasiphae to fall in love with the bull. Then Daedalus, made a hollow bull for her to use. Also he built the labyrinth that the minotaur was housed in.
I like the idea of using some from all of those stories, expecially something with Daedalus as possibly an alchemist or an expert. I am not sure if Paizo is still going to use the old story from CMR. There is no more mention of the city of Tulo, however that could be because it is in Iblydos, or the fact that everyone there died.
So as it turns out, apparently Lamashtu has been busy in Iblydos. Although that might have more to do with the fact that just about every greek monsters is something crossed with something else. I think I will look at the Cyclops next.
There is Ifestus, the Titan, slumbering under Mount Keeba in the Shackles.
What book is that in? I found reference to Mount Keeba in Isles of the Shackles, but where is the titan mentioned?
We know that the Cyclopes had a couple of main areas in Casmaron, one of which was in Iblydos. We also know that there was a major event that destroyed all of the cyclopes empires.
In greek myth the Titans and Cyclopes were related so maybe they were part of the Titan rebellion. That could have been the cause of the collapse of the empire. If not maybe the Titans sided with Rovagug.
It has been at least a thousand years since the collapse.
"From Hell's Heart" adventure 6 in the "Skull & Shackles" Adventure Path in the "Continuing the Campaign" section.
Cool! And thanks!
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Ifestus ... sounds like Hephaestus?
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I had this idea you all may like.
Asterion:
NG God of good aligned minotaurs, logical problem solving, physical fitness, friendship and self discovery adventuring.
The son of the god Zeus and the queen of a now long gone kingdom in a far world, Asterion was imprisoned in a labyrinth designed by a genius for contain his evil. Far from truth as Asterion had a good nature, the labyrinth was in fact created as a way to diminish the ranks of subjugated nations' nobles as it was an incredible deadly dungeon. During his youth, Asterion helped many of the presumed sacrifices to him escape until he clashed with the evil hero Theseus. Thought death by the toxins Theseus used in his weapons, his body was leave on the wilderness to be devoured by the beast but the noble minotaur managed to overcome the paralyzing effects of the poison.
Free at least, Asterion made many good deeds but his monstrous appearance forced him to take a new entity, using a ring of change self he assumed human form and he called himself Iolus. During those years he meet and befriended the hero Herakles (and today priest of Asterion argue in a friendly way with those of Herakles about who came with the strategy to defeat the Lernean Hydra) and it is said the facade which Asterion used during these years was revealed by his friend in one of his legendary fits of rage. People instead of react towards Asterion with rejection accepted him as what he was.
Being Asterion incredible modest concerning the affairs of love is not sure if he is the main source of the existence of half-minotaurs in Iblydos.
Asterion teaches his followers problems must be approached with logic first and use brute force as last resort, that an adventurer's life must be for discovery oneself's nature and bring back to your community what you had learned for enrich it and there should be a balance between body and mind. The priest of Asterion train both mind and body, making their temple public gymnasiums and academies in which maths and philosophy are teach to the followers of the White Bull.
Asterion haves a good relation with all the good aligned gods and empyreal lords, specially Herakles, which friendship is as strong as the first day. The only exception is Caiden Caylean, which during a party in Nirvana the drunkard god was so intoxicated he mistook the White Bull for the demon lord Baphomet, breaking Asterion's right horn with a mighty blow before the Labyrinth Solver knocked him out with a self defense upper cut. Calystria was present and it is said she find the sight so hilarious she laughed hysterically for a whole year. Followers of Asterion are still today looking trough the Prime Material Plane for the Lost Horn of Asterion, said to be a powerful good aligned artifact capable of destroy the mightiest evil doers. Some legends said the Horn was found by the Bonesage Malifax of Eox and put in custody in his laboratory hidden in one of the many asteroids of The Diaspora, in a labyrinth guard by mighty robots, powerful undead, runic magic and quantum technology traps.
[Cont.]
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I kind of like Set's idea, though we don't even have to make them direct replacements, just have them fulfill similar roles.
But Gozreh as both Zeus and Poseidon is especially nice to me, as i was recently reading a book that was discussing how the earliest depictions of Zeus showed him with the fish tail later attributed to Poseidon.
Which means that Zeus, and perhaps all of the Greek deities, could actually be ... Veiled Masters!
I am not sure pulling an entire other earth pantheon whole sale is a good idea. I think it worked for the Egyptian one since they are all anthropomorphic.
Also remember that the rumor is that like the Dragon Empires, Casmaron will have a different core 20 deities. I would guess most of the newer gods, except for Irori won't have a place in Casmaron. Abadar, Desna, Irori, Lamashtu, Pharasma, Sarenrae, and Shelyn all seem like safe bets since they are in the Dragon Empires as well.
All of the important greek gods are anthropomorphic. It's only once you start reaching back into the family tree, with the protogenoi where they start getting weird. I'd also point out that while the vast majority of the egyptian gods are anthropomorphic, there is a notable exception in Apep.
It's also entirely possible to have a separate 20 core deities like the Dragon Empires had while still giving Iblydos it's unique greek pantheon, just like the inner see has it's twenty core and Osirion happens to have twenty extras that fell out of worship before being picked up again. Iblydos is one small part of Casmaron, not the whole thing.
I'm simply of the opinion that having the egyptian pantheon being the one real world pantheon to have a presence while having the greek pantheon be co-opted by the pathfinder core would be rather jarring. I don't think it's the kind of trick you get to do just once.
On the subject of Casmaron's pantheon, I'd like it if it has a few different carry overs from the Inner Sea core than the Dragon Empire carry overs. Having the same deities appear in all three pantheons gives the impression that they're a step above the others.
At the very least, I'd switch out Lamashtu for Asmodeus.
I am not sure pulling an entire other earth pantheon whole sale is a good idea. I think it worked for the Egyptian one since they are all anthropomorphic.
Also remember that the rumor is that like the Dragon Empires, Casmaron will have a different core 20 deities. I would guess most of the newer gods, except for Irori won't have a place in Casmaron. Abadar, Desna, Irori, Lamashtu, Pharasma, Sarenrae, and Shelyn all seem like safe bets since they are in the Dragon Empires as well.
All of the important greek gods are anthropomorphic. It's only once you start reaching back into the family tree, with the protogenoi where they start getting weird. I'd also point out that while the vast majority of the egyptian gods are anthropomorphic, there is a notable exception in Apep.
It's also entirely possible to have a separate 20 core deities like the Dragon Empires had while still giving Iblydos it's unique greek pantheon, just like the inner see has it's twenty core and Osirion happens to have twenty extras that fell out of worship before being picked up again. Iblydos is one small part of Casmaron, not the whole thing.
I'm simply of the opinion that having the egyptian pantheon being the one real world pantheon to have a presence while having the greek pantheon be co-opted by the pathfinder core would be rather jarring. I don't think it's the kind of trick you get to do just once.
On the subject of Casmaron's pantheon, I'd like it if it has a few different carry overs from the Inner Sea core than the Dragon Empire carry overs. Having the same deities appear in all three pantheons gives the impression that they're a step above the others.
At the very least, I'd switch out Lamashtu for Asmodeus.
Since Lamashtu has already been mentioned as being in Iblydos, I have a feeling we know which way Paizo is planning to go with her. See the Baphomet article in Herald of the Ivory Labyrinth.
Important themes:
Gods/goddesses
Heroes' Quests
Reward for goodness, and retribution of evil
Fate
Beauty
Love
War
Canibalism
The big thing that makes it Greek would be city states. Each one should have a thing they are known for. For example the democracy city-state, the warrior city-state, etc.
City-states were often run by kings called tyrants, I like the idea of one being run by a Titan in disguise who is the king. With the cannibalism theme maybe a ghoul city state. There has to be one modeled on Athens, and one on Sparta. The prophecies of the Oracles is a huge theme, but how to tie that to the loss of prophecy? Maybe they are still hiding that they lost it, since it has only been 100 years.
Along the lines of using the inner sea gods as stand ins for the Greek pantheon, I would use Calistria as Aphrodite, and not Shelyn. Calistria is lust, yearning, ambition, which fits Aphrodite far better in my mind than real love, art, and beauty of Shelyn.
It almost seems like you would split the stories. There are plenty of stories where Aphrodite would be more like Shelyn, but also many where Aphrodite would be more like Calistria.
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How about this one for Shelyn:
AGLAIA (or Aglaea) was the goddess of beauty, splendour, glory, magnificence and adornment. She was one of the three Kharites (Graces) who often appears dancing in a circle with her sisters. Aglaia was the mother of the four younger Kharites named Good-Repute, Praise, Eloquence and Welcome. She was also named Kharis (the Grace) and Kale (Beauty).
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I generally equate Calistria with Aphrodite/Venus (both also prominently tied to the second planet in the solar system), with Lucifer (the great tempter, not Satan, the opposer of creation, who seems more like Rovagug to me). Also, Lucifer, the Morning Star, was also represented by the planet Venus (the Morning Star).
But then, I have very odd views on correlated deities from the ancient Inner Sea (oops, I mean the Mediterranean).
;)
Dot