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I am going to be doing a level 1 sylvan sorcerer with my tiger animal companion, "Pumpkin." I plan to be taking the handle animal skill so that I can teach Pumpkin tricks and keep her from eating friendly townsfolk.
I am wondering how many tricks Pumpkin starts with on the very first game. Does she only start with the one bonus trick? If so, can I get a second one at the start of the first mission if I make the DC on my handle animal skill?
Hmm
6 tricks, as per a standard trained animal, plus a bonus trick from being an animal companion.
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Pumpkin starts with 7 tricks. 1 bonus and 6 for their 2 intelligence (2X3=6)
If you have the animal archive, I'd recommend attack attack, down, come, defend, seek and flank. If you don't have the animal archive I'd replace flank with heel. Getting attack twice is very important because you will be fighting things that the animal won't attack otherwise.
It's fairly fast to train up an animal companion I believe, 1 trick per rank of handle animal per session?
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Flutter, the card to the union was incredibly helpful! Thank you!
I have a question for you. I am taking the trait "Eye for Talent" in lieu of my bonus feat. Do you suggest I apply the bonus +2 attributes to Pumpkin's strength?
Hmm
I am taking the trait "Eye for Talent" in lieu of my bonus feat.
Why? There's this feat, Extra Traits, gives you TWO traits. Do that instead. Then you get Eye for Talent AND something else useful.
I am taking the trait "Eye for Talent" in lieu of my bonus feat.Why? There's this feat, Extra Traits, gives you TWO traits. Do that instead. Then you get Eye for Talent AND something else useful.
Different kind of traits. Eye of talent is a racial trait, as in the abilities that comes from being a specific race, and not a race trait, which is part of a separate system meant to represent a bit of your background while providing marginal benefits.
Typically you get two of the latter, and they are often referred to as 'half feats' since that is their intended power level (most clearly seen with things like extra rage, which gives 6 rage rounds, and berserker of the society, which gives 3)
Ah, the alternate racial traits. Duh. Should've done more research before opening my fat mouth. Or...well....typing with my fat fingers.
Given that the FAQ indicates that Animals for PFS can have IQs of greater than 3, you could also use it for Intelligence in order to get more tricks.
If Pumpkin dies, I guess we would just have to get Squash.
If we use the plus 2 to IQ, the IQ goes to 4, are we sure that's legal? Can we quote the part of the FAQ that says that? I don't want to lose Pumpkin as an AC, but raising his intelligence sounds like a very tempting option.
As I understand it, since it is part of the Pathfinder FAQ we would just need to bring a copy of that portion of the FAQ printed with the date and URL.
As a Pathfinder Society GM, you have the right and responsibility to make whatever judgements, within the rules, that you feel are necessary at your table to ensure everyone has a fair and fun experience. This does not mean you can contradict rules or restrictions outlined in this document, a published Pathfinder Roleplaying Game source, errata document, or official FAQ on paizo.com. What it does mean is that only you can judge what is right for your table during cases not covered in these sources.
Given the text in the FAQ I don't think it would be a problem.
So, more damage and better able to hit or more tricks. It is a tricky question and I'm really not sure which is better. The additional tricks would probably allow you to get Flanking and some of the other really nice control ones.
The rules for Animal Companions are that, in direct contradiction of the rules for both Intelligence and Animals, you can raise the Int of your Companion.
Doing that doesn't follow the actual rules for Intelligence scores, but allows you to bypass the feat restrictions and teach 3 additional skill ranks per Int point.
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The rules for Animal Companions are that, in direct contradiction of the rules for both Intelligence and Animals, you can raise the Int of your Companion.
Doing that doesn't follow the actual rules for Intelligence scores, but allows you to bypass the feat restrictions and teach 3 additional skill ranks per Int point.
Wait a minute... We actually get more skill points too? Or were you referring to tricks, Pupsocket?
BTW, I recently read your guide to traits. It was an interesting and helpful read.
Hmm
I am interested in the skill point situation as well. As far as being able to have an animal companion with an intelligence over three... the PFS FAQ on ACs indicates you can.
Can my animal companion or familiar wear or use magic items?
It is intended that animal companions or familiars can not activate magic items. An animal companion could benefit from an item with a continuous magical effect like an amulet of natural armor if its master equipped the item for the animal companion. Animal companions of any type may not use manufactured weapons.
Animal companions are also limited by their individual anatomies. In Pathfinder Society Organized Play, animal companions always have access to barding and neck-slot items so long as they have the anatomy. For example, a horse and pig can always have access to barding and neck-slot items. A snake does not have access to either. However, an item called out to be used by a specific animal is usable by that animal regardless of slot.
Additionally, animal companions have access to magical item slots, in addition to barding and neck, as listed on the inside front cover of the Animal Archive so long as they select the Extra Item Slot feat. The Animal Magic Item Slots table found in Animal Archive is not a legal except under the following conditions. First, an animal companion, familiar, or bonded mount, may choose one slot listed under its body type when taking the Extra Item Slot feat (this feat may be taken multiple times, each time selecting a different available magic item slot based on the creature’s anatomy). Second, access to specific magic item slots may be granted at a later date by another legal source. If you do not own a copy of the Animal Archive, your animal companion may only use barding and neck-slot items.
An animal or familiar has to have an intelligence of 3+ to activate an ioun stone. If the animal or familiar has less than a 3 intelligence, they may not activate an ioun stone.
The brownie, faerie dragon, imp, lyrakien azata, mephit, quasit, sprite familiars, granted by the Improved Familiar feat, use the Biped (hands) section of the chart. The carbuncle and voidworm protean, familiars granted by the Improved Familiar feat, uses the Serpentine section of the chart. If you do not own a copy of the Animal Archive, your animal companion may only use barding and neck-slot items.
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If you check the Monkey see monkey do blog and the comments, you'll see they resolved the contradiction in favor of having animal companions with ints of 3 or higher. Limiting the animals int to 2 is just for standard run of the mill bestiary critters: your special friend is well.. special.
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If you check the Monkey see monkey do blog and the comments, you'll see they resolved the contradiction in favor of having animal companions with ints of 3 or higher. Limiting the animals int to 2 is just for standard run of the mill bestiary critters: your special friend is well.. special.
Yes, I realize that Pumpkin is fairly rare. Most PC's:
1) Aren't human;2) Would not give up their bonus feat at first level for a +2 bonus to their AC;
3) Would have applied that AC bonus to STR or CON.
But the concept of applying to INT and having a better trained companion at Level 1 kind of appeals to me.
The big question is can Pumpkin and I keep each other from getting killed in those first critical levels?
I was going to take the spells "Enlarge Person and Mage Armor" at first level. Enlarge Person can help Pumpkin and help BretI's character in combat. (We're playing a husband-wife team for PFS.) Mage Armor can protect both myself and Pumpkin. But if you have any other spell suggestions, let me know.
Hmm
The rules for Animal Companions are that, in direct contradiction of the rules for both Intelligence and Animals, you can raise the Int of your Companion.
Doing that doesn't follow the actual rules for Intelligence scores, but allows you to bypass the feat restrictions and teach 3 additional skill ranks per Int point.
Wait a minute... We actually get more skill points too? Or were you referring to tricks, Pupsocket?
BTW, I recently read your guide to traits. It was an interesting and helpful read.
Hmm
Yeah, I meant tricks.
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If you raise the intelligence of your animal companion they simply get 3 tricks per point intelligence raised and may take all feats they can qualify for.
So the number of tricks Pumpkin starts with if you apply the +2 to intelligence is 12 + 1 bonus from being an animal companion.
Keep in mind that in PFS animal companions are not allowed to use manufactured weapons, so the weapon proficiency line is useless (not that you'd care with a pet tiger, but for people (like me) who wanted to use an ape with a greataxe, they are out of luck in PFS).
A solid choice for first level feat is usually toughness for +3 hitpoints.
Alternatively you could go for light armor proficiency and give Pumpkin a wooden armor (40 gp). Pumpkin would have AC 17 (10 +3 dex, +3 armor, +1 natural), 11 HP
If you don't care about the non-profiency penalty you could alternatively dress pumpkin up in a hide armor (30 gp, medium armor) for a -3 to attack from non-proficiency. Pumpkin would have AC 18 (10 +3 dex, +4 armor, +1 natural) and 14 HP (assuming toughness)
Since pumpkin already has armor this way, you could switch out Mage Armor for Shield to shore up it's armor class a little bit more.
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I thought that I would go with leather barding. No armor check penalty, but a little extra help when Pumpkin doesn't have mage armor. Yes, I know Mage Armor doesn't stack with leather barding, but it does overlap.
If the shield spell lasted longer than a minute per level it would totally be my first choice as it does stack with armor. Unfortunately, it's short duration puts it out of the running as one of my first two level one spells.
Hmm
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One other thing to mention is the new Hunter class from the Advanced Character guide. It gets a significantly better AC in exchange for much worse spell progression. And it can make FULL use of all the tricks an intended 4 gives you at level 1.
One caveat: the rules about hunter tricks are somewhat unclear at the moment. RAW its pretty clear they get full and free access to all hunters tricks. But this may or may not be intended and there is a fair chance it will be errata'd at some point.
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That would kinda defeat the point of being a wildblooded sorceress with an animal companion no?
I'm personally more a fan of using a scroll of mage armor (or two) at low levels if necesary then having it on my spell list, it still lasts 1 hour.
My sorceress is going to have a giant scorpion trailing her (+2 int from human eye for talent to actually get skillpoints and tricks), and my 1st level spells are going to be Grease and Enlarge Person.
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One other thing to mention is the new Hunter class from the Advanced Character guide. It gets a significantly better AC in exchange for much worse spell progression. And it can make FULL use of all the tricks an intended 4 gives you at level 1.
One caveat: the rules about hunter tricks are somewhat unclear at the moment. RAW its pretty clear they get full and free access to all hunters tricks. But this may or may not be intended and there is a fair chance it will be errata'd at some point.
An interesting option, but no. I'm new, and it's taken me a couple weeks of going through the rules and advice class guides to finally figure out how sorcerers work!
I want to get a hang of this before trying another class. Thanks for the suggestion, Paul!
Hmm
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That would kinda defeat the point of being a wildblooded sorceress with an animal companion no?
I'm personally more a fan of using a scroll of mage armor (or two) at low levels if necesary then having it on my spell list, it still lasts 1 hour.
My sorceress is going to have a giant scorpion trailing her (+2 int from human eye for talent to actually get skillpoints and tricks), and my 1st level spells are going to be Grease and Enlarge Person.
I hate the idea of having mage armor be one of my precious two first level spells as well, but I want Pumpkin to last through the first adventure! Though I suppose I could give her toughness as her first feat, leather barding, and try to have her do more defending than attacking for our first adventure.
Then buy a wand of mage armor with my first two prestige points...
Hmm
PS Damanta, your scorpion sounds fierce!
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I hate the idea of having mage armor be one of my precious two first level spells as well, but I want Pumpkin to last through the first adventure! Though I suppose I could give her toughness as her first feat, leather barding, and try to have her do more defending than attacking for our first adventure.
Then buy a wand of mage armor with my first two prestige points...
Hmm
PS Damanta, your scorpion sounds fierce!
You could "exploit" the first level rebuild rules from PFS. First adventure use mage armor as one of your spells, then for the second adventure get either the wand of mage armor or 4-5 scrolls of mage armor and get a different spell.
I wanted something different for animal companion than the eternal cats and dinos. Also trying to get my bluff skill through the roof to convice others that it's my greensting scorpion familiar who had a magical accident.
You mean people don't all build 20 str 18 con barbarians with toughness feat before switching class at level 2?
I was mostly joking. I did however switch from a level 1 magus to a level 2 swashbuckler when the ACG playtest hit. It was probably a bad idea as it will now cost a boatload of prestige to archetype him.
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I was mostly joking. I did however switch from a level 1 magus to a level 2 swashbuckler when the ACG playtest hit. It was probably a bad idea as it will now cost a boatload of prestige to archetype him.
I know you were joking :).
And to archetype him, I hope you either haven't played him yet, or the archetype changes something that you haven't gained yet, but it doesn't sound like you're in that situation.One of the people I frequently played with had 1 character go through 3 different classes at level 1 because he wasn't sure where to go with it.
Rogue for his first adventure, playtest warpriest for his second adventure and cleric for his third adventure, and I think he switched deity and domains for his 4th (and finalizing) adventure.
Exploiting the rewrite rules seems not quite kosher, but it's good to know that it's an option if I hate having mage armor as one of my two first level spells.
Hmm
It's why I used "exploit" instead of use, even though it's fully within the rules. I think the level 1 rebuil rules were made for people like I mentioned above, who go through different classes before they settle on what they like.
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I wanted something different for animal companion than the eternal cats and dinos.
Bret's and my characters are hailing from Katapesh. I admit, I picked the location based on the regional trait, "Child of the Savanna," which gives animal handling as a class skill. It was either that, or be raised by gnomes, and I thought an arabic background would be more fun for me to roleplay.
The dinosaurs did not interest me much, despite their elevated stats. But tigers appear over and over again in arab folktales. They loved their exotic pets. So a tiger seemed to fit really well.
And then Bret suggested the name, "Pumpkin," and the deal was sealed.
Me: [cooing voice] "Pumpkin, did you eat that nasty goblin for us? Who's a good boy? You are!"
Also trying to get my bluff skill through the roof to convice others that it's my greensting scorpion familiar who had a magical accident.
Innkeeper: "What is *that*?"
Damanta: "That's my familiar."
Innkeeper: "That is not coming into my inn."
Damanta: [bats eyelashes] "You wouldn't separate a sorcerer from her familiar, would you? [whispers] She's been very sensitive, since the accident. You don't want to hurt her feelings. If she get's upset, I won't answer for the consequences."
Innkeeper: [swallows] "Let me get you two a private room."
And to archetype him, I hope you either haven't played him yet, or the archetype changes something that you haven't gained yet, but it doesn't sound like you're in that situation.
It does and it changes 2 features. I could just make a new one, and I am sorely tempted, him but vast majority of my PFS games come from play by post, so leveling takes quite a bit of time.
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I asked Flutter for some suggestions for Tricks.
Also... If Pumpkin starts with 13 tricks, what tricks do you recommend? I have Animal Archive.
Hmm
I take it you're human with eye for talent and put it towards pumpkins int?
Attack
Attack
Come
Down
Heel
Defend
Guard
Seek
Fetch
Combat manuever: trip
Combat manuever: grapple
Combat manuver: disarm
Serve
SneakThe combat manuvers should be in vogue this season. There are a lot of critters like robots with hardness you can't get through, so you take the Aoo, hope they miss, and sit on them so your fighter with the adamantine greatsword can pry them open like a tin can.
D'oh, I flunked flank. Replace guard with flank. Your melee will thank you by getting pumpkin out of the charge lane.
My final list is:
Attack
Attack
Come
Down
Heel
Defend -- Because I and others may need defending.
Flank -- Really good for getting other players with melee.
Guard -- I kind of liked the idea of Pumpkin guarding our stuff.
Seek
Fetch
Combat maneuver: grapple -- Tigers like to grapple.
Serve -- Absolutely necessary so that Bret's character can also deal with Pumpkin.
The other combat maneuvers looked interesting, but I ran out of tricks at that point. So I have lots of room to grow as far as tricks are concerned.
Future tricks that are interesting:
Watch -- For guarding
Deliver
Hunt
Work
Entertain or Perform (for fun!)
What do you think?
Hmm
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Looks good, I'd personally switch out fetch for deliver probably, because fetch is not something you'll often do in combat, while with deliver you can get Pumpkin to bring a potion to your friends :).
You also only listed 12 tricks, while Pumpkin has 13 available, so you can take Watch as well (4 int = 12 tricks, +1 bonus from being an animal companion).
Keep in mind that you can push your animal companion as a move action with a DC 25 handle animal check to perform a trick it doesn't know.
Being a sorceress you don't have access to handle animal as class skill so you'll want to take the trait: Jungle Guide from the Sargava, the Lost Colony book which will give you a +1 trait bonus on handle animal and make it a class skill. Then you'll give Pumpkin a training harness (10 gp) from the advanced race guide, human section.
The final calculation for your handle animal will be:
1 rank, +4 charisma, +4 because animal companion, +3 class skill, +1 trait bonus, +2 (untyped) bonus from the harness for a total of +15 handle animal towards your animal companion, enabling you to take 10 for the tricks Pumpkin doesn't know.
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I don't know about not doing fetch in combat.
"Pumpkin, fetch that ioun stone from that nasty mage! Good boy!"
Actually, I kind of wish that I could afford a 25gp grey ioun stone for Pumpkin. Doesn't that sound like the best kitty toy ever?
As for handle animal, I've got that covered. Our characters hail from lovely Katapesh, where we can do the whole fun arabic culture thing and get the trait, "Savannah Child" +1 to animal handling and it becomes a class skill.
So for handle animal:
+ 1 Skill Rank
+ 3 Class Skill
+ 1 Savannah Child Trait
+ 2 Tiger Training Harness
+ 4 Link
+ 4 Charisma
I can regularly hit DC 20 or 25 if I take 10. I may still want to take a couple ranks more in Handle Animal as I level, but I'm good to go now.
So I miscounted my tricks? Which do you think would be better, Deliver or Watch?
Hmm
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Fetching the ioun stone in that scenario would technically be a combat trick called steal :)
In any case, I'd go with the Deliver as 13th trick. You can always push Pumpkin to do the Watch trick.
With Fetch and Deliver you can have Pumpkin pick up things a party member dropped to take it to another party member, while having her watch something would less likely happen during combat.
Since you'll be playing PFS, having more ranks in it will benefit you in case Pumpkin does get a fatal incident and you're not able to raise her and have to retrain a new one, since a new animal companion comes completely blank except for the bonus tricks, and training an animal companion in PFS only allows 1 trick per rank in handle animal per scenario.
Tricks I have listed for Pumpkin are:
Attack
Attack Any Target [Trick] The animal will attack any creature on command.
Come [Trick] The animal will come to you on command.
Defend [Trick] The animal will defend you.
Down [Trick] The animal will break off combat on command.
Fetch [Trick] The animal will get a specific object.
Flank [Trick] Attempts to attack and flank indicated enemy.
Guard [Trick] The animal stays in place and prevents others from approaching.
Heel [Trick] The animal will follow you.
Maneuver [Trick, Grapple] Attempts specified maneuver against target.
Seek [Trick] The animal moves into an area and looks around for anything that is obviously alive or animate.
Serve [Trick, Omar Senay] Takes orders from designated creature.
Sneak [Trick] Creature stays hidden.
You had missed Sneak.
If you want Deliver instead, we can do that.
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Fetching the ioun stone in that scenario would technically be a combat trick called steal :)
Rats! There goes that plan. It was pretty funny as an idea, though...
In any case, I'd go with the Deliver as 13th trick. You can always push Pumpkin to do the Watch trick.
With Fetch and Deliver you can have Pumpkin pick up things a party member dropped to take it to another party member, while having her watch something would less likely happen during combat.
Okay, sounds good.
Since you'll be playing PFS, having more ranks in it will benefit you in case Pumpkin does get a fatal incident and you're not able to raise her and have to retrain a new one, since a new animal companion comes completely blank except for the bonus tricks, and training an animal companion in PFS only allows 1 trick per rank in handle animal per scenario.
Hmm... Good point. Of course, I am horribly short on skill points. I burned my second trait on diplomacy (because Zahra's charisma is much better than her husband Omar's, and we'll need some if we're taking Pumpkin into towns and such. Besides, diplomacy is an awesome skill all around.) I'm IQ 12 and human, which gives me a grand total of FOUR skill points.
My favored class bonus is extra spells, and I'm taking them. Even the cantrips.
So my first level skills are: Knowledge Arcana, Diplomacy, Handle Animal and Use Magic Device. Fortunately, Omar took Spellcraft for 1st level. You can see why I wouldn't mind being able to skip one of these on the next level to pick up Knowledge Nature, but yeah... I think you're right. My whole build is centered around Pumpkin. I need to have that one pegged in case I need to retrain, which would suck.
Note to self: Keep Pumpkin alive.
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Tricks I have listed for Pumpkin are:
Attack
Attack Any Target [Trick] The animal will attack any creature on command.
Come [Trick] The animal will come to you on command.
Defend [Trick] The animal will defend you.
Down [Trick] The animal will break off combat on command.
Fetch [Trick] The animal will get a specific object.
Flank [Trick] Attempts to attack and flank indicated enemy.
Guard [Trick] The animal stays in place and prevents others from approaching.
Heel [Trick] The animal will follow you.
Maneuver [Trick, Grapple] Attempts specified maneuver against target.
Seek [Trick] The animal moves into an area and looks around for anything that is obviously alive or animate.
Serve [Trick, Omar Senay] Takes orders from designated creature.
Sneak [Trick] Creature stays hidden.You had missed Sneak.
If you want Deliver instead, we can do that.
Actually, I'm starting to question Seek. That looks to me like a tiger-killing trick. "Pumpkin, go into this room ahead of the rest of the party and get hit by all big bads first!"
Or am I misreading this?
Hmm