Level to all damage rolls with their weapons of choice(one-handed/light piercing). That's pretty big.
Its their weapon of choice, but its also inferior to every other kind of fighting. The fact is that level to MOST (not all) damage rolls puts them in the running with 2handed fighting, and even two wepon fighting, and especially archery. Their weapon does half as much damage, they lose out on 50% of their strenght bonus (assuming the 2hander is using high strength vs the swashbuckler using dex to damage), and power attack yields a greater amount of damage that scales as you get higher in level, if the swashbuckler even takes power attack. With a 15 point buy have a 13 strength to qualify for power attack will be difficult for a fontline, dex and charisma based skilled character with a poor will save. With just taking very basic choices (power attack, weapon focus, weapon spec) the 2handed fighter will outdamage the swashbuckler assuming similar stats. And thats just the fighter.
Yes they get improved critical but most of their damage doesn't multiply on a crit. Level to damage just makes up for it not being a two hander.
Level to all damage rolls with their weapons of choice(one-handed/light piercing). That's pretty big.Level to most damage rolls.
1. Must have a Panache point left.
2. Target must be susceptible to a critical hit
2b. Will also have hell powering abilities against non-critable targets
3. The damage does not multiply on a critical
4. Can't dual wield
5. Can't use a weapon 2 handed
6. Can only use a buckler
To be fair, these are not much of a problem...
1- Doesn't matter. SBs have too many class features that require having a Panache point left, so they'll likely keep it anyway.
2- This is true.
2b- Eh... Dunno about.
3- Also true... Although adding level to damage on most damage rolls is pretty big.
4- Doesn't really matter. TWF sucks.
5- True... Then again, it deals just as much damage as a 2-handed weapon most of the time.
6- Doesn't really matter. The difference between a buckler and a heavy shield is a mere +1 in AC.
I would not put them as better than Fighters, I would put them as about the same.
Oh, they are definitely better than Fighters... But that's because Fighters suck.
I do agree that their weapon training getting free improved crit, where a fighter, whose ability that is the base class it is from, does not get improved crit, is stupid.
Errata Fighter Weapon training to get Improved Crit, and everything is cool.
It will also give fighters a bonus which they need.
Meh... Fighters don't really need a boost to their damage output. In fact, that's the one thing they don't need.
Well... That and AC.
I don't see this swashbuckler as over powered. It suffers all the same set back any martial class has.
It is not so much that I thing that fighters need a damage boost for the Weapon Training thing.
It is more that I hate it when something new takes a signature ability from a core class and gets it better, for no penalty.Ex. Rogue < Ninja
If they're not going back to the Rogue to improve it, then they might as well release replacements. That's basically what they did.
You are 100% correct on the Fighters suck point though. I am the only person in my normal gaming group, that usually has 2 different pathfinder games going to cover the number of people, that will ever play one.
I don't find fighters sucking personally myself. If I have certain builds and designs I want to use, I do often look to fighters first if its a more heavy build. Swashes are a slightly more mobile build (Namely getting acrobatics as class skill for example)
For example I've got a Rogue/Fighter at level five right now, who uses performance combat.
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=976296
Right now he's only got the gold of a second level guy.
Of course there are things that are immune to his intimidation ability, things that are really hard to intimidate too. But in most combats, he can quickly begin throwing off a rather large number of performance checks, especially in two levels when some can be made as free actions.
If he does get the intimidation check to go off, that is 3 rounds of shaken at least.
I'm trying to get some input to fix the class here. Any advice is welcome.
Interesting fact, rogue get the equivalent of 2 times their level in precision damage when they flank or hit a target denied their dex to damage.
Those are pretty serious IFs, also the rogue has trouble hitting since they are a 3/4 BAB class with no way of increasing his attack roll.