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Not even sure why hex channeler was banned....
I don't know for sure, and was confused about this at first...but on second look, you could just continually gain the "extra hex" feat and continually raise your channel energy. For example, a human witch could retrain their first two feats to be extra hex, and just take extra hex every level, and their channel at level 5 would be 6d6 (with no other hexes, but still).
It's not something I would allow in a home game, but in PFS you can't adjudicate that.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Not even sure why hex channeler was banned....I don't know for sure, and was confused about this at first...but on second look, you could just continually gain the "extra hex" feat and continually raise your channel energy. For example, a human witch could retrain their first two feats to be extra hex, and just take extra hex every level, and their channel at level 5 would be 6d6 (with no other hexes, but still).
It's not something I would allow in a home game, but in PFS you can't adjudicate that.
Ah, and there you have it. I agree, that's probably why that one was banned.
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Not even sure why hex channeler was banned....I don't know for sure, and was confused about this at first...but on second look, you could just continually gain the "extra hex" feat and continually raise your channel energy. For example, a human witch could retrain their first two feats to be extra hex, and just take extra hex every level, and their channel at level 5 would be 6d6 (with no other hexes, but still).
It's not something I would allow in a home game, but in PFS you can't adjudicate that.
Sure they could, they could simply add a line to the additional resources saying something like "The Extra Hex feat cannot be used to advance the Hex Channeler's Channel Energy class feature for PFS."
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I don't like that Steel Hound was banned. I understand they don't want people having guns, but we're going to Numeria for the gods' sake!
Also, there are pictures in the book showing Quinn using guns, and the mythos of a detective with a revolver is too good.
Yeah - but haven't they banned anyone but gunslingers from having guns? (and I don't think even gunslingers get revolvers in PFS)
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You can still get guns as other classes, you just have to drop 3 feats (2 at absolute minimum) into actually being able to use/obtain them (Before ranged combat feats of course). Know what really irks me? The chapter flavor text in the ACG with Damiel has him with a Homunculus which is illegal for alchemists to have (since they apparently don't have a caster level to take either craft construct or improved familiar with a tumor familiar).
I am confused as to why they keep making gun archetypes...and then keep banning them. It's like somebody in the office loves guns, and somebody in the Society group considers them flat-out OP. I think by this point we've got Investigator, Cavalier, Wizard, Swashbuckler, Fighter and (sorta) rogues and ninjas in the pool of potential gun users via archetypes or class options. But only the Cavalier has an actually legal one (if the picaroon is in fact banned later)
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You can still get guns as other classes, you just have to drop 3 feats (2 at absolute minimum) into actually being able to use/obtain them (Before ranged combat feats of course). Know what really irks me? The chapter flavor text in the ACG with Damiel has him with a Homunculus which is illegal for alchemists to have (since they apparently don't have a caster level to take either craft construct or improved familiar with a tumor familiar).
I am confused as to why they keep making gun archetypes...and then keep banning them. It's like somebody in the office loves guns, and somebody in the Society group considers them flat-out OP. I think by this point we've got Investigator, Cavalier, Wizard, Swashbuckler, Fighter and (sorta) rogues and ninjas in the pool of potential gun users via archetypes or class options. But only the Cavalier has an actually legal one (if the picaroon is in fact banned later)
Because not everyone plays PFS?
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Yeah - but haven't they banned anyone but gunslingers from having guns? (and I don't think even gunslingers get revolvers in PFS)I don't like that Steel Hound was banned. I understand they don't want people having guns, but we're going to Numeria for the gods' sake!
Also, there are pictures in the book showing Quinn using guns, and the mythos of a detective with a revolver is too good.
I'm like 80% sure that you can get Exotic Weapon Proficiency [Firearms]
Could be different for PFS, though. It doesn't matter much anyway, 'cause I'll probably be playing a Hunter
EDIT: Wow... Hunter with a gun...
Wait, no. Too close to a real-life practice that appalls me.
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I'm like 80% sure that you can get Exotic Weapon Proficiency [Firearms]Exotic Weapon Proficiency has to be taken on a per-weapon basis, so you could take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (pistol) or Exotic Weapon Proficiency (double-barreled musket), but you can't use one feat to gain proficiency with ALL firearms.
That said, you have to take the Gunsmithing feat (which the picaroon doesn't get automatically) in order to be able to purchase firearms in PFS, meaning you can use firearms with any character for the low low price of two feats or one level.
You would be right, except
Firearm Proficiency: The Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) feat allows you to use all firearms without penalty. A nonproficient character takes the standard –4 penalty on attack rolls with firearms, and a nonproficient character who loads a firearm increases all misfire values by 4 for the shots he loads.
Here's the PRD link to verify.
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Also, as far as musketeer being banned and Picaroon being legal, upon closer inspection, Musketeer replaces 1 class ability (Swashbuckler's Finesse) with effectively 3. Instead of just Weapon Finesse, the Musketeer has Weapon Finesse (Rapier only), Rapid Reload (Musket), and Gunsmithing, all for one level dip, plus they have Quick Clear at first level as well, this would make the Musketeer a very interesting dip.
Its worth noting however that Musketeer is flawed, they only gain Panache by means of melee attacks, even though they might need to spend Panache to fix their gun.
Picaroon on the other hand doesn't gain a free Rapid Reload or Gunsmithing, though it does trade Swashbuckler's Finesse for Finesse and Two Weapon Fighting (but only when using a gun in one hand, and a piercing weapon in the other.) this is balanced however by getting these abilities at second level rather then first. Picaroon is fundamentally stronger then Musketeer in my opinion however.
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Sure they could, they could simply add a line to the additional resources saying something like "The Extra Hex feat cannot be used to advance the Hex Channeler's Channel Energy class feature for PFS."Not even sure why hex channeler was banned....I don't know for sure, and was confused about this at first...but on second look, you could just continually gain the "extra hex" feat and continually raise your channel energy. For example, a human witch could retrain their first two feats to be extra hex, and just take extra hex every level, and their channel at level 5 would be 6d6 (with no other hexes, but still).
It's not something I would allow in a home game, but in PFS you can't adjudicate that.
Because changing rules for the sake of balance is not within the purview of the PFS leadership. It is the job of the designers to do this and anyone else at Paizo doing this would be overstepping their bounds. This is why the standard response to anything in PFS that would require a change to RAW is to ban it rather than change it.
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Because changing rules for the sake of balance is not within the purview of the PFS leadership. It is the job of the designers to do this and anyone else at Paizo doing this would be overstepping their bounds. This is why the standard response to anything in PFS that would require a change to rules is to ban it rather than change it.Sure they could, they could simply add a line to the additional resources saying something like "The Extra Hex feat cannot be used to advance the Hex Channeler's Channel Energy class feature for PFS."Not even sure why hex channeler was banned....I don't know for sure, and was confused about this at first...but on second look, you could just continually gain the "extra hex" feat and continually raise your channel energy. For example, a human witch could retrain their first two feats to be extra hex, and just take extra hex every level, and their channel at level 5 would be 6d6 (with no other hexes, but still).
It's not something I would allow in a home game, but in PFS you can't adjudicate that.
It's not changing the rules, it's creating house rules, just like what Society already does by requiring you to be the exact race to use spells or feats from the Advanced Race Guide.
Or how an Elf or Aasimar Oracle can only advance their Animal Companion to the point where they have 1 HD greater then the Oracle, because any further advancement would be OP...wait that is exactly what you are arguing they cannot do.
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Because changing rules for the sake of balance is not within the purview of the PFS leadership. It is the job of the designers to do this and anyone else at Paizo doing this would be overstepping their bounds. This is why the standard response to anything in PFS that would require a change to rules is to ban it rather than change it.Sure they could, they could simply add a line to the additional resources saying something like "The Extra Hex feat cannot be used to advance the Hex Channeler's Channel Energy class feature for PFS."Not even sure why hex channeler was banned....I don't know for sure, and was confused about this at first...but on second look, you could just continually gain the "extra hex" feat and continually raise your channel energy. For example, a human witch could retrain their first two feats to be extra hex, and just take extra hex every level, and their channel at level 5 would be 6d6 (with no other hexes, but still).
It's not something I would allow in a home game, but in PFS you can't adjudicate that.
It's not changing the rules, it's creating house rules, just like what Society already does by requiring you to be the exact race to use spells or feats from the Advanced Race Guide.
Or how an Elf or Aasimar Oracle can only advance their Animal Companion to the point where they have 1 HD greater then the Oracle, because any further advancement would be OP...wait that is exactly what you are arguing they cannot do.
1. House rules are changes to the rules.
2. Far more people are affected by rules that effect all races than by rules that affect a single archtype.3. There is no guarantee your proposed fix would cover all potential problems with this class that the PFS staff may have seen. It requires a proper game design solution and game design can become very time consuming. I really do not see that it is anywhere near cost effective to have the PFS staff spend time on game designing (something that isn't their job) simply for the sake of a single archtype.
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Or how an Elf or Aasimar Oracle can only advance their Animal Companion to the point where they have 1 HD greater then the Oracle, because any further advancement would be OP...wait that is exactly what you are arguing they cannot do.
This ruling was made to fix a well understood existing problem. It was not made to fix a poorly understood potential one.
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Yeah - but haven't they banned anyone but gunslingers from having guns? (and I don't think even gunslingers get revolvers in PFS)I don't like that Steel Hound was banned. I understand they don't want people having guns, but we're going to Numeria for the gods' sake!
Also, there are pictures in the book showing Quinn using guns, and the mythos of a detective with a revolver is too good.
Nope. I have a PFS Spellscar Drifter Cavalier (from Inner Sea Combat).
She has a gun, a horse, and an iconic hat -- she's a cowgirl.
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3. There is no guarantee your proposed fix would cover all potential problems with this class that the PFS staff may have seen. It requires a proper game design solution and game design can become very time consuming. I really do not see that it is anywhere near cost effective...
The Hex Channeler only gains 1 ability over a normal witch, the ability to channel energy. Assuming the issue is that a Witch with the Hex Channel Archetype could channel better then any other class, restricting the ability to increase the channel dice to only class granted hexes rather then those granted by extra hex would indeed resolve the issue.
However, if the issue with the class is that non-divine casters should not get channeling in Golarion, then it cannot be fixed. After all this is the first arcane archetype to get real channeling. It's not flavor, because the Bard Archetype that gets channeling is legal
Again, assuming that the issue with the Hex Channeler is not flavor, it's easy enough to fix, by restricting the power of the Hex Channeler's Channel Energy.
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One other thing to keep in mind with at least the ACG sanctioning - they were working to get how big a book up and going for PFS just before Gencon? We may well find they will revisit problem child items later; for now it may well be a case of getting the majority into play and setting aside what needs closer looks.
Not to say that is true, but it is a real possibility to consider.
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Not everything that is banned is done because of Balance/Overpower reasons. Some things are banned because they don't fit the Golarion Setting (Many of the archetypes that give Firearm options), they are to complex and to many GMs will be confused about them, and even some times things are banned because they don't work as a part of the in game organization "Pathfinder Society".
Options that don't fit any of those above are usually just rare and get opened through Boons.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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It makes sense to me that the Musketeer archetype is not allowed - it involves a government being invested enough into firearms that they're fielding units with them. With other gun-wielding archetypes, this is where they say guns haven't been around long enough for such things to develop.
The Picaroon is more of a personal style thing. Individual swashbucklers could pick it up on their own, so it makes a bit more sense.
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Yep, as an example, there is a chronicle boon that gives you the option to make new Thassilonian Specialist Wizards, once you receive it.Sometimes those boons come from scenario chronicles.Hmm... Okay.
Just a question, because the Boon Trading Thread seemed to have gone silent, is there Svifnerblin boon now. Please say there is...
It's like my favorite race.|
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Yep, as an example, there is a chronicle boon that gives you the option to make new Thassilonian Specialist Wizards, once you receive it.Sometimes those boons come from scenario chronicles.Hmm... Okay.Just a question, because the Boon Trading Thread seemed to have gone silent, is there Svifnerblin boon now. Please say there is...
It's like my favorite race.
No, no deep gnomes in the society.
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No, no deep gnomes in the society.Yep, as an example, there is a chronicle boon that gives you the option to make new Thassilonian Specialist Wizards, once you receive it.Sometimes those boons come from scenario chronicles.Hmm... Okay.Just a question, because the Boon Trading Thread seemed to have gone silent, is there Svifnerblin boon now. Please say there is...
It's like my favorite race.
There is no bounds to my current sadness...
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It makes sense to me that the Musketeer archetype is not allowed - it involves a government being invested enough into firearms that they're fielding units with them. With other gun-wielding archetypes, this is where they say guns haven't been around long enough for such things to develop.
The Picaroon is more of a personal style thing. Individual swashbucklers could pick it up on their own, so it makes a bit more sense.
Thing is, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't there a few units of gunmen in the Taldane forces? I know they have bought some cannons for sure.
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Thing is, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't there a few units of gunmen in the Taldane forces? I know they have bought some cannons for sure.It makes sense to me that the Musketeer archetype is not allowed - it involves a government being invested enough into firearms that they're fielding units with them. With other gun-wielding archetypes, this is where they say guns haven't been around long enough for such things to develop.
The Picaroon is more of a personal style thing. Individual swashbucklers could pick it up on their own, so it makes a bit more sense.
I feel like it would only make sense to have an Andoran- excuse me- "Liberty's Edge" soldier with a musket.
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There is no bounds to my current sadness...No, no deep gnomes in the society.Yep, as an example, there is a chronicle boon that gives you the option to make new Thassilonian Specialist Wizards, once you receive it.Sometimes those boons come from scenario chronicles.Hmm... Okay.Just a question, because the Boon Trading Thread seemed to have gone silent, is there Svifnerblin boon now. Please say there is...
It's like my favorite race.
They did have a bleached gnome available through the charity auction at GenCon.
Primalist is banned because it negates any reason for ever taking a level in barbarian, as you're now a Bloodrager who can give up 4th (8th, etc) bloodline powers for taking 2 rage powers. I guess if you're a barbarian you can enjoy your extra 2hp at level 1 and 1 hp every other level? You can get 1st level bloodline abilities, spell casting, and then just take rage powers the rest of the way up to be a simply better Barbarian with the same number of rage powers, with a slightly delayed access (4th level gets you 2nd and 4th, etc).
Along these lines the Daring Champion should probably also be banned as it gains almost every relevant swashbuckler ability, and keeps cavalier's abilities (except mount based ones).
I was thrilled when I read about the primalist. PERFECTION! Then incredibly bummed that it wasn't allowed.
But I must admit, it seemed too powerful. Every bloodline has a few dog-ish powers. Two rage powers is significantly more powerful than that.
