Nathan Sunshine |
I am about to begin a new campaign led by a seasoned game master. Naturally I was in the market for a new miniature, but rather than intelligently going directly to a site like Paizo, which explicitly sells the sort of miniatures I want, I decided to more broadly weigh my options. It was after purchasing a product that I discovered that there are in fact 2 different miniatures markets (at least).
The one market apparently is newer, and consists of already assembled and painted miniatures, many of which are sold directly by Paizo. The other consists of unassembled, unpainted miniatures, that are designed for consumers who have a greater interest in that art on top of tabletop role playing.
I don't consider these two markets automatically the same. I'm sure that there is some overlap and that there are plenty of consumers of Paizo products who enjoy painting their own miniatures. However, I am sure that there are also many consumers who do not want what they would view as an incomplete product. They want a fully painted and assembled miniature.
I came across this when I purchased a miniature from a site called "Dark Sword Miniatures" (http://www.darkswordminiatures.com). This is a site filled with attractive looking miniatures displayed with colored images. What I found somewhat deceptive about this site was that the images are not actually the product being sold. This site sells unassembled, unpainted miniatures. It mentions this in a number of locations in writing, that are evident upon close examination of the web pages. I suppose I made an incorrect correlation between the large image in the center of the pages to purchase the items, and the product actually being sold.
I don't blame Dark Sword Miniatures for creating and selling such products. As I said, they represent a real market of enthusiasts. But they are squarely in that market, and not in the business of selling "complete" miniatures.
Those who want "completed" miniatures should consider Paizo directly, and should certainly put in the effort to read all writing on other sites they might consider. Not every site selling miniatures is 100% clear about which market they support.
I would love to hear about additional online sites that focus on each market. Also, if someone could provide a direct link to the section of Paizo selling miniatures that would be great!
Best.
Thazar |
Most metal figs that need to be put together and painted are a classic thing in the gaming world and has been around since before Pathfinder, D&D, or even many gamers where born. The newer pre-painted plastic figs are great for busy people and for DM's who do not have the time to paint everything for their games. So both markets are very valid and helpful. I would not say that the metal figs are considered "unfinished" as what they really are is something that allows you to create your own unique version of your character. Some folks even buy several and modify them with little saws and drills to make the perfect fig that is also a work of art.
All that being said... HERE is a link to Paizo singles for the plastic prepainted items that are also very cool and ready to go.
x x 806 |
The separation is not as clear as you think because even if I use prepainted miniature I will modify them, add detail, make a base etc.. Prepainted can also be used to be cut in part for making other miniatures.
Some manufacturer will also sell both type.
Here is a page with a lot of manufacturer listed
http://cominipainters.com/resources-and-references/list-of-miniature-manufa cturers/
Another list separated by theme
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/373197.page
DungeonCrawler_greyhaze |
It is VERY deceptive to the buyer I find. You are shown 1 thing and sent something completely different.
For instance while running a kickstarter, our minis (Dungeon Crawler) come as both Unpainted and Painted miniatures, but we show the production quality of those painted minis - while other kickstarter projects show off MASTER paints done by incredible artists.
So, while they have sprue cutting, filing, assembly, priming, painting, shading, washing and flocking still left to do by the buyer to get them looking remotely that good, that's NOT what they're actually selling you.
We sell finished products, but don't show you master paints when we do, and they just don't compare. http://www.dungeoncrawler.com/dcm/
Also, PPMs (pre-painted plastic minis) are far more durable, they can be stored in a drawer or bag, while metal will chip, break and bend if treated like that.
R_Chance |
It is VERY deceptive to the buyer I find. You are shown 1 thing and sent something completely different.For instance while running a kickstarter, our minis (Dungeon Crawler) come as both Unpainted and Painted miniatures, but we show the production quality of those painted minis - while other kickstarter projects show off MASTER paints done by incredible artists.
So, while they have sprue cutting, filing, assembly, priming, painting, shading, washing and flocking still left to do by the buyer to get them looking remotely that good, that's NOT what they're actually selling you.
We sell finished products, but don't show you master paints when we do, and they just don't compare. http://www.dungeoncrawler.com/dcm/
Also, PPMs (pre-painted plastic minis) are far more durable, they can be stored in a drawer or bag, while metal will chip, break and bend if treated like that.
I've been buying miniatures for over 40 years. Metal and unpainted was the norm until recently. I don't find it "deceptive" at all. Inevitably, if you read, it is noted the miniatures are supplied unpainted and unassembled. Miniatures are often shown painted for esthetic reasons and to display detail. It's hard to see details in a photo of an unpainted miniature. Prepping and painting a good miniature is part of the fun. The sense of accomplishment and getting the exact paint job / look you wanted is another part. When you're that vested in a miniature tossing it in a drawer or bag is not likely, although as you mentioned metal miniatures are more susceptible to damage. PPM are good if you don't find it fun or just don't have the time. I'd say it's two markets all right, with some crossover.
DungeonCrawler_greyhaze |
Absolutely agree two different markets, however, I'm still going to hold that it is deceptive. Yes, they do put that *notation in there, yes it helps show off the piece much better than if you just took a pic of the sprue that you get - and it certainly does help sell those figures! But, it's the difference between pitching this:
It's a world of difference, and the likeliness of you getting that master paint in your collection is slim without lots of extra steps, purchases and practice or just paying someone with skill to do it for you.
I think the OP had it right, it's a "be aware" kind of thing that new people get caught up on.
Alex Smith 908 |
I've been buying miniatures for over 40 years. Metal and unpainted was the norm until recently. I don't find it "deceptive" at all. Inevitably, if you read, it is noted the miniatures are supplied unpainted and unassembled. Miniatures are often shown painted for esthetic reasons and to display detail. It's hard to see details in a photo of an unpainted miniature. Prepping and painting a good miniature is part of the fun. The sense of accomplishment and getting the exact paint job / look you wanted is another part. When you're that vested in a miniature tossing it in a drawer or bag is not likely, although as you mentioned metal miniatures are more susceptible to damage. PPM are good if you don't find it fun or just don't have the time. I'd say it's two markets all right, with some crossover.
This is all true but it doesn't justify advertising with the masters instead of the production minis.
danielc |
Every time this comes up I ask a simple question that none of the sellers seem willing to answer, why not just show both?
Why not have a picture of a wonderful paint job to show what could be and then a shot of the bare metal unassembled mini. Is it that hard to show two pictures? We all know it is not, yet they act like showing the bare metal is somehow a problem.
Do I think it is deceptive? Not really. Do I think it is lazy? Yes, I do.
Alex Smith 908 |
Well Dungeon Crawler does show both. My objection isn't too a good paintjob or a "master level" paint job but using the mold masters/paint masters used for casting/developing paint automation rather than the final production minis. It is deceptive to use a version that will never be released to the general public in advertising.
R_Chance |
I think a lot of the display style has to do with time in the industry. Most of the people making miniatures have been around the block a few times and displaying a painted mini is how it has always been done in a catalog / online. If you wanted to see the unpainted mini that was available for view at the hobby shop. Not, I know, an option that is available to all these days. People used to display their painted minis in shop for that matter.