Funny. I've played such games and I easily made it back to the bank/station 95%+ of the time. And in those games the consequences for killing you were zilch.That's not much of an answer though. Everybody tried that in another game in the early days of MMOs and the PKers, who are nothing if not quite adaptable, would let others do all the gathering they wanted and then waylay them on the way to the bank. More efficient that way.Three hours harvesting, and then, a guy comes out from nowhere, and kill you. You just played three hours for nothing.
Seems pretty meaningful to me...
First rule of loot drop MMOs. Always bank what you can't afford to lose. Quite frankly if you've been doing three hours of anything that generates loot without banking you're being a complete fool.
People harvesting mithril and addy should be above such basic mistakes.
That probably depends on some factors. The game I was talking about was UO in the early days before most players had the recall (teleport) spell to instantly make a bank run. PKers would litterally stand at dungeon entrances and say "hi" as you went in, and kill you on the way out. lol. (and there always seemed to be more on the way out than in. Same along the route to and from dungeons and places of interest.
Goblin Squad Member
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That sounds like a problem in selecting where to farm/gather. I find it hard to believe all locations were constantly camped by PKs, probably just the more desirable ones. But that's part of the point of these kind of games. If someone is camping the desirable locations rather than sitting back and doing nothing you could:
A. Bring a group powerful enough to fight off the PKs to farm the dungeon.
B. Have someone scout the exit before you try to leave and call in friendly reinforcements if needed.
C. Align yourself with a friendly group that will protect the dungeon area from PKs.
D. Form a group that will do that yourself.
Conflict is the content so don't just sit there and pretend to be helpless.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Relevant to this discussion: (seriously, I got tunnelvision during this discussion and didn't think to take a new look at ye olde gathering blog until we reached page 10 :/ )
When you find a harvest node, your ranks in the related Profession skill determine if you can access it at all. For example, you only need one rank in Miner to harvest iron, but .
[...]
However, based on the current resource totals in the hex, there's a chance that any particular harvest node might have hidden wealth: harvesting it reveals that it is, in fact, a gathering node.
[...]
Once you discover a gathering node, you'll have exclusive rights to it for a limited amount of time, after which the chance to haul in the resources from the gathering node disappears. You can't pass these rights off or have them stolen from you, either directly or by showing another player the site; if you find the gathering spot, you are the primary character that must be involved in a gathering operation there. This should keep lower-level harvesters from having their claims jumped by bandits or their own allies; if you find the node, you get to be integral to the gathering process. The window of time in which you can set up a gathering operation is fairly narrow, but usually it's enough time to run back to a nearby base and get a gathering kit, or have one brought to your location by an ally.The speed of the gathering operation is pegged to your own Profession rating, but the output goes into a nearby storage object. as well. Your allies won't want to force you off your find, but you'll certainly want them to help stand guard.
. The upper limit to what you can gather from a single operation is based on the total resources in the hex. Like harvest nodes, gathering nodes start running on fumes when the hex as a whole has been heavily harvested or gathered.
, but harvest nodes make up a much steadier supply.
Now this is from october last year and the plans may have been revised but there are a few conclusions I draw:
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Three hours harvesting, and then, a guy comes out from nowhere, and kill you. You just played three hours for nothing.
Seems pretty meaningful to me...
First rule of loot drop MMOs. Always bank what you can't afford to lose. Quite frankly if you've been doing three hours of anything that generates loot without banking you're being a complete fool.
People harvesting mithril and addy should be above such basic mistakes.
Oh, so we are not talking about going to steal some ore on the other side of the map just to piss off Nihimon ?
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Goblin Squad Member
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The gathering nodes are also known as "motherlodes". You can't just go start harvesting and find a motherlode unless you are very lucky. They are a big find by someone who has been harvesting the regular way and stumbles upon one.
Both regular harvesting and motherlode harvesting deplete the supply of resources in the hex.
So motherlode a will be a big deal for the person that finds them and others will have a chance to rob the spoils from them, but I don't believe the evidence points toward motherlodes being the primary force that depletes a hex of resources. If you want to control that hex's resources the best method will be driving out all the harvesters you don't want to be there.
Something that is not feasible through the current reputation system unless the influence costs of feuds is low enough to allow you to feud every company that comes there.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh, so we are not talking about going to steal some ore on the other side of the map just to piss off Nihimon ?Three hours harvesting, and then, a guy comes out from nowhere, and kill you. You just played three hours for nothing.
Seems pretty meaningful to me...
First rule of loot drop MMOs. Always bank what you can't afford to lose. Quite frankly if you've been doing three hours of anything that generates loot without banking you're being a complete fool.
People harvesting mithril and addy should be above such basic mistakes.
First off no. Aragon is not on the other side of the map, but even so I doubt I would have to run the ore all the way back to Aragon to find someone I don't mind selling to.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh, just one more, Decius.
It seems basically an arena request using different words.
Right. That whole part where we divide up into set teams of even numbers and then fight until X kills or flag captures...
Wait... that wasn't part of the idea? Oh yeah that's right this is nothing even remotely close to arena PvP.
...a particular place players can go and fight without consequence. Sure, its just a PvP arena.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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...a particular place players can go and fight without consequence. Sure, its just a PvP arena.Oh, just one more, Decius.
It seems basically an arena request using different words.
Right. That whole part where we divide up into set teams of even numbers and then fight until X kills or flag captures...
Wait... that wasn't part of the idea? Oh yeah that's right this is nothing even remotely close to arena PvP.
No, and arena should also have the feature that nobody who doesn't want to be in the arena is.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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First off no. Aragon is not on the other side of the map, but even so I doubt I would have to run the ore all the way back to Aragon to find someone I don't mind selling to.Oh, so we are not talking about going to steal some ore on the other side of the map just to piss off Nihimon ?Three hours harvesting, and then, a guy comes out from nowhere, and kill you. You just played three hours for nothing.
Seems pretty meaningful to me...
First rule of loot drop MMOs. Always bank what you can't afford to lose. Quite frankly if you've been doing three hours of anything that generates loot without banking you're being a complete fool.
People harvesting mithril and addy should be above such basic mistakes.
You'll probably get a fair price in Keeper's Pass.
Ninja harvesting is an expected and intended emergent behavior.
That sounds like a problem in selecting where to farm/gather. I find it hard to believe all locations were constantly camped by PKs, probably just the more desirable ones. But that's part of the point of these kind of games. If someone is camping the desirable locations rather than sitting back and doing nothing you could:
A. Bring a group powerful enough to fight off the PKs to farm the dungeon.
B. Have someone scout the exit before you try to leave and call in friendly reinforcements if needed.
C. Align yourself with a friendly group that will protect the dungeon area from PKs.
D. Form a group that will do that yourself.Conflict is the content so don't just sit there and pretend to be helpless.
They not only camped the best locations, they ran in bands all around cities so players had to run the gauntlet to get in or out. They ran the entire map looking for players to PK and loot. They were like piranha with the scent of blood.
We often organized quick armies to clear them out, but they came right back. Players just got tired of it all the time.
But I don't expect the same issues since PFO has some things in it already. I'm just trying to point out that these sorts of players live to grief and win in any way possible. I want people here to understand what this type is like so this game can be free of anti-social activity of that nature.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But I don't expect the same issues since PFO has some things in it already. I'm just trying to point out that these sorts of players live to grief and win in any way possible. I want people here to understand what this type is like so this game can be free of anti-social activity of that nature.
I'm afraid no multiplayer game will ever be truly free in the way you aspire. I empathize, but expect human beings to be all too human.
But I don't expect the same issues since PFO has some things in it already. I'm just trying to point out that these sorts of players live to grief and win in any way possible. I want people here to understand what this type is like so this game can be free of anti-social activity of that nature.I'm afraid no multiplayer game will ever be truly free in the way you aspire. I empathize, but expect human beings to be all too human.
I just don't want a system that can be abused. Because as soon as it can be, it will be WIDELY abused.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Please remember, also, that GW's promised a robust human-GM element, with arbitrary and capricious powers, able to respond to player-complaints. There'll be some resistance, of course to *filing* those complaints, but I hope with a bit of time and practice we'll turn folks in just fine.
For those who over-report, or try to grief *by* reporting, remember that arbitrary and capricious has the lovely benefit of working in both directions...in all directions.
And enforcement of these rules will be arbitrary, and capricious. They'll vary from rep to rep, and with the load we're coping with, and a million other unquantifiable factors. You will have avenues to appeal these decisions, and those appeals will also be arbitrary and capricious.
And just so we're clear, this is exactly what every other MMO does. Some of them pretend there's some kind of formal justice system, but having seen it up close and on the inside i can tell you that's just PR.
Disclosure: this quote was specifically addressing issues with chat, but there's no reason to suspect that player-actions can't or won't be covered as well.
Looks like someone's declared a feud on this idea.
...
That's not really very funny. I'm getting outta here.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The more I think about how this will help LG settlements use force without repercussions, the more I like it. If LG has mechanical advantages other other alignments, + we have our ability to use force expanded (when it comes to the most valuable resource) to match Evil, then it's a huge win for us.
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Goblin Squad Member
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LG's mechanical advantages over other alignments is mostly based on the other alignment's ability to use chaotic and evil acts. If those groups in other alignments are unwilling to use acts that flag them as criminal or heinous or cause Rep hits, then yes, they're willfully ceding the advantage to the LG types.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...a particular place players can go and fight without consequence. Sure, its just a PvP arena.Oh, just one more, Decius.
It seems basically an arena request using different words.
Right. That whole part where we divide up into set teams of even numbers and then fight until X kills or flag captures...
Wait... that wasn't part of the idea? Oh yeah that's right this is nothing even remotely close to arena PvP.
That has to be one of the worst arguments I've ever heard. You're really grasping at straws here.
By your defintion The Ettenmoors from LotRO, Illum from SWTOR, Every contested area in PvP servers on WoW, The Epic Cluster on Wurm, Everywhere outside the safe areas in Darkfall, and all of Nullsec in EVE are all arena PvP.
Really:
"...a particular place players can go and fight without consequence."
Hell. You'll be hard pressed to find too many forms of PvP don't fit your definition of "arena PvP".
Stop making up new definitions for buzz words just so you can hurl them inappropriately into arguments where they have absolutely no place.
My definition would be an instance (in other words cut off from the rest of the world) in which participants take part in a match against other competitors. Two crucial components of arena PvP are some method of keeping score and a set start and end to each match. Examples being WoW arenas, SWTOR battlegrounds, and most FPS matches.
Though maybe we should just redefine it as:
Arena PvP - Any PvP Being doesn't like.
I, for one, am totally in favor of aranea PvP. Can they be like the ones from Isle of Dread?
Poor Hatoi.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I actually really enjoy some occasional arena PvP. I would really love to see gladiatorial arenas as settlement structures. I just realize Open a World PvP cannot be Arena PvP and Arena PvP cannot be Open World PvP.
Any FFA hexes are clearly more dangerous Open World PvP areas. Comparing them to Arena PvP is just a tactic to manipulate people's opinions using buzz words.
I actually really enjoy some occasional arena PvP. I would really love to see gladiatorial arenas as settlement structures. I just realize Open a World PvP cannot be Arena PvP and Arena PvP cannot be Open World PvP.
Any FFA hexes are clearly more dangerous Open World PvP areas. Comparing them to Arena PvP is just a tactic to manipulate people's opinions using buzz words.
Shouldn't that be what tournaments are for? And that can be done anywhere, right?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Shouldn't that be what tournaments are for? And that can be done anywhere, right?I actually really enjoy some occasional arena PvP. I would really love to see gladiatorial arenas as settlement structures. I just realize Open a World PvP cannot be Arena PvP and Arena PvP cannot be Open World PvP.
Any FFA hexes are clearly more dangerous Open World PvP areas. Comparing them to Arena PvP is just a tactic to manipulate people's opinions using buzz words.
As far as we know, no. They've actually increased the penalties for killing someone if they are an ally last I heard. The only real way to do tournament without huge rep hits would be to join separate companies and start a feud.
Of course, over time, big player tournaments could be set up where people willingly accept a temporary hit to their Rep for a chance at the big prize. But I doubt those'll be showing up anytime soon.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Right. I've always thought they could really be a fun structure to add. Purposes:
1. Fights between players- There could be several selectable objectives and the players on each side could be picked manually.
2. Fights between players and captured NPCs- Think how Romans brought lions and such to fight with gladiators in the Colosseum. You could make a way to capture NPCs and use them in the arena similarly. Using intelligent NPCs would count as slavery. (For instance using orcs, goblins, bandits, etc. would be slavery while using wolves or oozes would not.)
3. Betting on matches- There could be a system set up for making and taking bets on the outcome of the matches.
4. Training facility- Arenas could give trainable combat skills that fit the gladiatorial theme.
5. DI Effects- Holding games in the arena could increase the morale of your settlement. However having to-the-death matches (while giving the highest morale bonuses) could generate negative effects like corruption and unrest as well.
I'd also like to add that such arenas weren't always used for fighting so you could add things such as races an theater as well.
It could definitely be cool to have certain settlements actually become somewhat reknown for the events hosted in their arena.
Using intelligent NPCs would count as slavery. (For instance using orcs,goblins, bandits, etc. would be slavery while using wolves or oozes would not.)
Fixed a typo.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Right. I've always thought they could really be a fun structure to add. Purposes:
1. Fights between players- There could be several selectable objectives and the players on each side could be picked manually.
2. Fights between players and captured NPCs- Think how Romans brought lions and such to fight with gladiators in the Colosseum. You could make a way to capture NPCs and use them in the arena similarly. Using intelligent NPCs would count as slavery. (For instance using orcs, goblins, bandits, etc. would be slavery while using wolves or oozes would not.)
3. Betting on matches- There could be a system set up for making and taking bets on the outcome of the matches.
4. Training facility- Arenas could give trainable combat skills that fit the gladiatorial theme.
5. DI Effects- Holding games in the arena could increase the morale of your settlement. However having to-the-death matches (while giving the highest morale bonuses) could generate negative effects like corruption and unrest as well.I'd also like to add that such arenas weren't always used for fighting so you could add things such as races an theater as well.
It could definitely be cool to have certain settlements actually become somewhat reknown for the events hosted in their arena.
This all gets a big thumbs up from me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
2. Fights between players and captured NPCs- Think how Romans brought lions and such to fight with gladiators in the Colosseum.
You understand this recreates the thing about Rome that western civilization finds most abhorrent, and reinforces the perception that gamers are just looking for a way to exercise the urges that they'd prefer to do in real life if it wouldn't get them arrested?
Killing not-like-us because they a are a threat, or have resources we need, is a large perceptual step from capturing them and killing them for sport, regardless of the risk to self.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think the big thing to keep in mind is that High-Risk, High-Reward needs to apply to everyone, including those that are trying to use PvP to take resources from others. Making a hex FFA PvP REDUCES the risk for one group while RAISING for it another. I think it works to just keep parity in this instance. The value of the materials alone heightens the risk of being attacked for it alone. I think the systems as intended should be given a shot before we go changing this one hex type.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Making a hex FFA PvP REDUCES the risk for one group while RAISING for it another.
This is another instance of you don't have experience in these kinds of games so you don't know what you are talking about.
Yes just looking at the mechanics the game applies directly to the player the risk is reduced to the PvPer. HOWEVER if you think about it for 10 seconds you have to realize the average mithril/adamantine gatherer is going to be a hell of a lot more powerful than the vast majority of other gatherers in the game. These are gatherers at the top of their game. Not only does this make them more dangerous, it means the people hunting them will generally be at least as powerful as they are, and the PvPers aren't all in league with each other.
It would cause starmetal hexes to be one of the most dangerous areas in the game for everyone involved, not just harvesters.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It would cause starmetal hexes to be one of the most dangerous areas in the game for everyone involved, not just harvesters.
And to go back to flogging the horse, just in case, you know, it's not already dead, there's no evidence that those hexes won't already be the most dangerous areas for everyone. The concept as stated is not known to be necessary or useful, and appears to alter the balance of things in favour of certain play-styles without any evidence that re-balancing is needed.
Except for us Criminals.
People can already kill us on sight. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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It would cause starmetal hexes to be one of the most dangerous areas in the game for everyone involved, not just harvesters.And to go back to flogging the horse, just in case, you know, it's not already dead, there's no evidence that those hexes won't already be the most dangerous areas for everyone. The concept as stated is not known to be necessary or useful, and appears to alter the balance of things in favour of certain play-styles without any evidence that re-balancing is needed.
So apparently people can bash on this idea and occasion no comment from you but when you respond to the people bashing on the idea it's flogging a dead horse.
Nice double standard there.
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Goblin Squad Member
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2. Fights between players and captured NPCs- Think how Romans brought lions and such to fight with gladiators in the Colosseum.You understand this recreates the thing about Rome that western civilization finds most abhorrent, and reinforces the perception that gamers are just looking for a way to exercise the urges that they'd prefer to do in real life if it wouldn't get them arrested?
Killing not-like-us because they a are a threat, or have resources we need, is a large perceptual step from capturing them and killing them for sport, regardless of the risk to self.
This game already includes slavery, murder, theft etc.
Such gladiatorial battles do exist in the lore. I see no reason to allow slavery and omit this because someone might get offended.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So apparently people can bash on this idea and occasion no comment from you but when you respond to the people bashing on the idea it's flogging a dead horse.
Nice double standard there.
I'd appreciate an apology on that one.
I've made a comment on the notion of fighting captured NPCs, and on the notion of conflating cost with risk, but until the message you attacked, I haven't commented on the notion of skyfall hexes being PvP since the alternate of feuding a hex was brought in which I have been supporting.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think the big thing to keep in mind is that High-Risk, High-Reward needs to apply to everyone, including those that are trying to use PvP to take resources from others. Making a hex FFA PvP REDUCES the risk for one group while RAISING for it another.
Which is pretty cool. For a LG settlement, this doesn't just reduce alignment and reputation risk when controlling starmetal, it eliminates it, thereby raising relative risk for everyone else.
I can't see a downside for LG groups in this :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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*SNIP* lot more powerful than the vast majority of other gatherers in the game. These are gatherers at the top of their game. Not only does this make them more dangerous *SNIP*
A pure gatherer will be no more dangerous to a PvP player than a brand new one. Mining skills do not also come with combat skills. They are not dangerous, and you should know that.
Lets spell out the risk vs reward point here.
Attacking a gatherer in any other hex: Risk= will lose rep unless using SAD. Reward= may gain low cost crafting mats.
Attacking a gatherer in a Starmetal hex: Risk= will lose rep unless using SAD. Reward= may gain most valuable crafting mats.
This already is a good reason for bandits etc to go and ply their trade in a starmetal hex. Reducing or removing the rep penalty does nothing to boost anything but the number of bandits thieving from others in a starmetal hex. It doesn't make the PvP more meaningful, doesn't increase human interaction, it just makes it cheaper for one group to do something that the devs have already said they don't want to have happen.
You want to have a starmetal hex all to yourself? Claim the territory around it and have your laws be "trespassers shot on sight". Sounds too costly? Pay in rep instead.
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A high-level gatherer will be able to acquire much more money. That money is used to hire guards. A high-level gatherer entering a dangerous area without any protection gets, like, -5 sympathy points from me. That's less than zero.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Money is still an expendable resource, they can only maintain their ability to hire guards as long as their harvesting runs are successful. A bandit reverses the equation - converting fighting into money. Certainly he must invest in gear, but it's far more difficult to truly harm a skilled bandit compared to a skilled harvester.
The harvester chooses his risk vs. reward equation all the time. Every time he invests further in harvesting skills he is losing the ability to learn to fight in exchange. Being a harvester is the embodiment of risk.
The bandit chooses his risk vs. reward on a case-by-case basis. Every time he robs someone, he loses some reputation, risking backlash and a growing list of enemies.
Yes, a known bandit will be unlikely to get around well in many areas, particularly after a stint of 'bad' behavior, but a harvester always has to worry about bandits turning up. Sure, they can attempt to manage their risk by collecting less valuable resources, but there will always be bandits who are balancing the same risk and targeting harvesters after mid-to-low grade supplies.
Basically my point is I think bandits already have a more flexible sense of choice in the game and making things to mitigate the consequences of the otherwise riskier actions just screws up the balance of what is or isn't a wise decision.
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Goblin Squad Member
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2. Fights between players and captured NPCs- Think how Romans brought lions and such to fight with gladiators in the Colosseum.You understand this recreates the thing about Rome that western civilization finds most abhorrent, and reinforces the perception that gamers are just looking for a way to exercise the urges that they'd prefer to do in real life if it wouldn't get them arrested?
Killing not-like-us because they a are a threat, or have resources we need, is a large perceptual step from capturing them and killing them for sport, regardless of the risk to self.
....seriously? Who cares. It's a video game, people shoot each other in the face by the millions every day in video games.
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Goblin Squad Member
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....seriously? Who cares. It's a video game, people shoot each other in the face by the millions every day in video games.2. Fights between players and captured NPCs- Think how Romans brought lions and such to fight with gladiators in the Colosseum.You understand this recreates the thing about Rome that western civilization finds most abhorrent, and reinforces the perception that gamers are just looking for a way to exercise the urges that they'd prefer to do in real life if it wouldn't get them arrested?
Killing not-like-us because they a are a threat, or have resources we need, is a large perceptual step from capturing them and killing them for sport, regardless of the risk to self.
I care. Very much. I not only care about the opinions of family and friends who don't game, but also about participating in something where captives are forced to fight for their lives for sport. I have fewer issues with people who want to fight for fun, nor with people who fight and kill others for scarce resources. I'd prefer not to participate in a game where people kill other beings purely for entertainment. The distinction isn't really all that subtle.
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Goblin Squad Member
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2. Fights between players and captured NPCs- Think how Romans brought lions and such to fight with gladiators in the Colosseum.You understand this recreates the thing about Rome that western civilization finds most abhorrent, and reinforces the perception that gamers are just looking for a way to exercise the urges that they'd prefer to do in real life if it wouldn't get them arrested?
Killing not-like-us because they a are a threat, or have resources we need, is a large perceptual step from capturing them and killing them for sport, regardless of the risk to self.
This game already includes slavery, murder, theft etc.
Such gladiatorial battles do exist in the lore. I see no reason to allow slavery and omit this because someone might get offended.
There's no might about it. I will be offended whenever the game makes it okay to force characters or creatures to fight for the entertainment of others.
In each of existing mechanisms, the killer takes on the risk of alignment and reputation loss. This specific part of the arena proposal defines circumstances where it's okay to force something or someone to fight for their lives for the entertainment of others without any consequences for the killers.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Right. I've always thought they could really be a fun structure to add. Purposes:
1. Fights between players- There could be several selectable objectives and the players on each side could be picked manually.
2. Fights between players and captured NPCs- Think how Romans brought lions and such to fight with gladiators in the Colosseum. You could make a way to capture NPCs and use them in the arena similarly. Using intelligent NPCs would count as slavery. (For instance using orcs, goblins, bandits, etc. would be slavery while using wolves or oozes would not.)
3. Betting on matches- There could be a system set up for making and taking bets on the outcome of the matches.
4. Training facility- Arenas could give trainable combat skills that fit the gladiatorial theme.
5. DI Effects- Holding games in the arena could increase the morale of your settlement. However having to-the-death matches (while giving the highest morale bonuses) could generate negative effects like corruption and unrest as well.I'd also like to add that such arenas weren't always used for fighting so you could add things such as races an theater as well.
It could definitely be cool to have certain settlements actually become somewhat reknown for the events hosted in their arena.
I could support something like that for evil settlements, but absolutely not without on the other hand, creating some kind of meaningful and INTERESTING sort of entertainment, for the good side, and the neutral side.
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Goblin Squad Member
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2. Fights between players and captured NPCs- Think how Romans brought lions and such to fight with gladiators in the Colosseum.You understand this recreates the thing about Rome that western civilization finds most abhorrent, and reinforces the perception that gamers are just looking for a way to exercise the urges that they'd prefer to do in real life if it wouldn't get them arrested?
Killing not-like-us because they a are a threat, or have resources we need, is a large perceptual step from capturing them and killing them for sport, regardless of the risk to self.
I think it's a valid point. Killing a creature in the wild, for food or resources is one thing. To prevent damage to crops or predation of livestock - that's fair. Killing a creature in an arena for the crowd's jollies is probably inherently wrong. Killing a sentient creature in the same case is even worse; maybe even worse than slavery.
It could apply to any such blood sport: bear baiting, bull fighting, dog fighting rings, cock fighting rings. It probably could be handled with a Heinous tag for participants, or participants and spectators, or for the settlement as a whole. Or they could just skip it by not having arena combat against NPCs mobs.