Technically... Magus 1+ Aasimar does it.
He he yes. But i guess no one is saying that is a good plan?
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What I had envisioned is a wizard/fighter gish that has decent AC and to-hit/dmg (maybe not excellent, but decent). Using spells like Mirror Image, Blur, or other arcane buffing spells to make things interesting. Having a wide range of spells to choose from and not being just a nuke bot, which from my understanding a Magus is.
Two points:
1. The magus does not have to be just a nuke bot. Most people may choose to play him in that manner but he does have access to buffs and control spells.
1. Sohei is a better choice than fighter. You won't be wearing armor and the sohei has a number of advantages over a 1 level fighter dip.
Actually, I have been considering a build that goes with that (well, it goes ~4 levels into magus eventually, but you get my point). The EK capstone for the magus is really, really great, and I can't think of any class features past lvl4 I'd be missing too hard.
The real thing you'd miss past lvl 4 magus are more magus arcana, more arcane pool points, and medium armor.
A Magus 10 can be far more powerful than a Magus 4/Eldritch Knight 6.
one could also consider dragon style instead of nimble moves (you can charge through difficult terrain)
also, not sure why folks have brought up crane style earlier in the thread since it was borked--unless paizo decided that was dumb and changed it back.
one could also consider dragon style instead of nimble moves (you can charge through difficult terrain)
also, not sure why folks have brought up crane style earlier in the thread since it was borked--unless paizo decided that was dumb and changed it back.
crane style Can be an alternative to combat expertise if one find use for that feat:)
Actually, I have been considering a build that goes with that (well, it goes ~4 levels into magus eventually, but you get my point). The EK capstone for the magus is really, really great, and I can't think of any class features past lvl4 I'd be missing too hard.
I Think a level 14 magus Will be better. And the Way to 14 Will be more fun as well. Magi generally have interesting things to do with swift actions already IMOP.
But if you make this char please get back and tell me how it goes.Edit: also Vanilla asimar is not on the racial top 10 for magus.
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Well here's the builds I have and they are NOT optimized for either of them but I'm not that great at builds either. Anyways, the EK does allow for more Fighter / Higher BAB feats but I chose the Step Up and Strike path but there's probably better choices.
Anyways here they are -
Class –11 Magus
Race – Elf
Traits -
* Unscathed
* __________
Alt Elf Racial –
* Elemental Resistance – 7/fire, 7/cold, 7/acid, 7/electricity with Unscathed
Stats -
Str: 13
Dex: 15 + 2 = 17
Con: 15 - 2 = 13
Int: 14 + 2 = 16
Wis: 12
Cha: 7
1) Magus 1: Bab +0, Weapon Finesse (lvl 1), Power Attack (fighter), +1 hp
2) Magus 2: Bab +1, Arcane Bond: Ring
3) Magus 3: Bab +2, Dervish Dance (lvl 3), Familiar (Magus Arcana)
4) Magus 4: Bab +3, +1 Dex, +1hp
5) Magus 5: Bab +3, Weapon Focus: Scimitar (lvl 5), (Magus)
6) Magus 6: Bab +4, Spell Blending (Magus Arcana)
7) Magus 7: Bab +5, Furious Focus (lvl 7),
8) Magus 8: Bab +6/+1, +1 Con, +1 hp
9) Magus 9: Bab +6/+1, Arcane Strike (lvl 9), Spell Blending (Magus Arcana)
10) Magus 10: Bab +7/+2
11) Magus 11: Bab +8/+3, ________ (lvl 11), Weapon Spec: Scimitar (Magus)
Estimated +7dex mod for below
HP: 91
AC: 22 (+2 Darkleaf Cloth Hide)
Lvl 11 Atk bonus with Spell Combat = +6
Dmg per Round w/ Shocking Grasp at Lvl 11 = 1d6 + 5d6 SG + 6 Power Attack + 3 Arcane Strike + 2 Weap Spec + 7 dex mod = 54 max dmg
Spells per Day: 5/5/4/4/2
ASF: Medium Armor 0%
Class –1 Wizard / 1 Fighter / 9 Eldritch Knight
Race – Elf
Traits -
* Unscathed
* Magical Knack: Wizard
Alt Elf Racial –
* Elemental Resistance – 7/fire, 7/cold, 7/acid, 7/electricity with Unscathed
Wizard School -
* Scryer (Divination)
Opposed Schools -
* Enchantment
* Evocation
Stats -
Str: 14
Dex: 15 + 2 = 17
Con: 15 - 2 = 13
Int: 14 + 2 = 16
Wis: 10
Cha: 7
1) Fighter 1: Bab +1, Weapon Finesse (lvl 1), Power Attack (fighter), +1 hp
2) Wizard 1: Bab +1, Spell Focus: Transmutation (wizard), Arcane Bond: Ring
3) Eldritch Knight 1: Bab +2, Step Up (lvl 3), Weapon Focus: ECB (EK)
4) Eldritch Knight 2: Bab +3, +1 Dex, +1hp
5) Eldritch Knight 3: Bab +4, Arcane Armor Training (lvl 5)
6) Eldritch Knight 4: Bab +5,
7) Eldritch Knight 5: Bab +6/+1, Step Up and Strike (lvl 7), Following Step (EK)
8) Eldritch Knight 6: Bab +7/+2, +1 Con, +1 hp
9) Eldritch Knight 7: Bab +8/+3, Lunge (lvl 9)
10) Eldritch Knight 8: Bab +9/+4
11) Eldritch Knight 9: Bab +10/+5, GWF: ECB (lvl 11), Improved Critical: ECB (EK)
Estimated +7dex mod for below
Hp: 90 hp
AC: 22 (+2 Darkleaf Cloth Hide)
Lvl 11 Atk bonus = +12/+7 – 3atk Power Attack = +9/+4
Dmg per Round at Lvl 11 = 1d10, + 6 Power Attack, + 7 dex mod, + 3 2hand = 26dmg + 26dmg = 54 max dmg
Arcane Bond: Ring = 1 spell of any level castable 1/day
Spells per Day: 4/4/4/3/2/1
ASF: Medium Armor 0% when Swift Action with Darkleaf Cloth (only necessary when casting)
Essentially EK gets 3 5th level spells per day with a 20Int (including Arcane Bond). Has more options with Fighter/Higher BAB feats. I honestly don't know what feats to pickup though for the EK so I took Step Up and Strike feat chain and Lunge for some versatility/sticking power but I could trade those for more damaging feats.
Magus would out damage with an intensified Shocking Grasp but to-hit is lower. I'm aware most Magus do this also. Magus has more spells, minus 5th level spells, than EK but using Spell Recall to get spells back will eat through Arcane Pool fast.
Any suggestions/thoughts on making these two builds better? Magus can't use 2handed weapons like ECB. Maybe a Spell Storing ECB for the EK would be usefull?
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Starting at 9th level you can spend one arcane pool point to resolve all your attacks for the round as touch attacks. Makes +2 BAB rather moot. Long before that you can spend points for +int to hit. Any time you face an opponent with metal armor or a metal weapon you get +3 to hit with shocking grasp.
I would recommend the Bladebound Archetype for PFS. Not having to spend your gold on a weapon lets you shore up any defensive holes, and get your medium mithril armor faster. Also at level 5 being able to ignore Silver, Cold Iron, or Adamantine DR while getting either +3 Keen or +4 (against adamantine) to attacks and damage is pretty epic. I kept up with fighters and barbarians hit chance because of bladebound, and with their damage due to shocking grasp spam. Mirror Image has gotten me through a ridiculous number of situations. Pearl of Power 1st level are basically (level up to 10)d6 extra damage per day for 1000 gold, or a vanish or shield casting.
Remember that you will still need a hand free to deliver Touch spells as unless you play a Magus. You can get away with casting spells while using your ECB as long as it's your Arcane Bond, which I recommend since you can enhance it for cost. (Although, I don't think PFS will allow you to do that, so YMMV.)
Elven Curved Blade is a solid item; tack on an Agile property on the ECB, and you can dump Strength to 13, freeing up a couple points to shore up weaknesses or make your important stats stronger, though you won't get 1.5x Dexterity to damage. (1.5x Power Attack still applies though.) You'll also be able to use Dexterity on attack rolls for Touch spells with Weapon Finesse, since they are also considered light weapons, and Ranged Touch uses Dexterity to attack rolls anyway.
I would highly suggest you don't take Evocation as an opposed school if you plan to utilize the Capstone, as well as be an offensive frontliner, as 90% of Touch/Damage Spells are Evocation (there's a few Necromancy, but that's it), meaning you're spending double slots for them, and you can't take the Arcane Discovery that fixes that problem when you're an EK. You might be better off with Conjuration as an opposed, since that deals with summoning monsters, which, while strong, isn't great unless you specialize in it, which you can't as an EK.
The Step Up feats are situational and won't work too well unless you're able to force them to retreat or go elsewhere, something which, unless you Dominate them, won't really work too well, and Spell Focus (Transmutation) doesn't make much sense to me, since that only increases the DCs of spells from that school being cast, most of which are buffs. I'd recommend taking Furious Focus in place of the Spell Focus after Power Attack, since you'll still have several levels to use it, and it takes away nearly all of the incentive to not Power Attack, and Weapon Specialization after that.
I personally dislike the concept of Arcane Armor Training, since it takes a Swift Action every turn to use it, it hurts your ability to be able to use your capstone effectively, as well as any Quickened Spells, but that won't be until the endgame anyway.
I'd also consider taking the Arcane Strike feat over Lunge, as it enhances your damage even further for a Swift Action for those rounds you don't need to cast spells, and the extra reach, unless you were building a reach build anyway, isn't doing you any favors.
I think this thing from the EK will allow him to take Arcane discoveryes
"Diverse Training: An eldritch knight adds his level to any levels of fighter he might have for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites for feats (if he has no fighter levels, treat his eldritch knight levels as levels of fighter). He also adds his level to any levels in an arcane spellcasting class for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites for feats."
Edit: if he have one or more wizard levels.
The scrying divination School gives somthing like clavoiance at level 1. That is what the elf is using for getting in early.
Remember that you will still need a hand free to deliver Touch spells as unless you play a Magus. You can get away with casting spells while using your ECB as long as it's your Arcane Bond, which I recommend since you can enhance it for cost. (Although, I don't think PFS will allow you to do that, so YMMV.)
You can simply take one hand off of your ECB to cast a spell and then put it right back, they're free actions. Don't use a two-hander for arcane bond unless your GM doesn't care that arguably you can't "wield" it while casting a spell... unless they got around to officially changing the wording of arcane bond to be less stupid, like they promised.
There's a HUGE difference between an EK that plans to go past level 11 and one that doesn't. If you're going to end up with a lot of play beyond 11, do NOT make plans for your swift actions...
also, not sure why folks have brought up crane style earlier in the thread since it was borked--unless paizo decided that was dumb and changed it back.
The final call on Crane Style was that you get a Crane Riposte any time the attack you use Crane Wing gets blocked. The automatic deflect is gone, but its still a powerful defense with an arguably better chance now to use the riposte. If you can afford the feats its still pretty great.
You don't need darkleaf for magus so can go for a +2 agile breastplate after level 7.
threw together a pair of EK's like i was thinking of. while they're built for level 20, but are by no means nonfunctional or weak before then (such as your ~12th level limit).
note for both: with still spell you can ignore ASF for armor (no somatic components means no armor impediments for them). costs you a higher spell level though, so not always the most useful option.
GISH
human sword saint samurai (order of the staff) 1 / wizard (diviner(scryer)[illusion/enchantment]) 1 / EK 10 / hellknight signifier 8
str 32 (5+2), dex 20 (5), con 20 (5), int 24 (5), wis 16, cha 16
+5 str (level), +6 all (gear), +5 str/+4 int (book/wish)
traits: magical knack (wizard) / armor master
assiduous gaze:
16 - elucidation
19 - veracity
feats:
1 - weapon focus (katana), power attack*
3 - improved initiative, combat reflexes*
5 - arcane armor training
7 - still spell, lunge*
9 - weapon specialization (katana)
11 - arcane armor mastery, greater weapon focus (katana)*
13 - dazing spell
15 - persistent spell
17 - spell mastery (???, ???, ???, ???, ???, ???, ???)
19 - spell mastery (greater teleport, plane shift, overland flight, mind blank, ???, ???, ???)
spells:
0 (infinite), 1th (6+1/day), 2th (6+1/day), 3th (6+1/day), 4th (5+1/day), 5th (5+1/day), 6th (5+1/day), 7th (4+1/day), 8th (3+1/day), 9th (2+1/day)
BAB 17 (1|0|1/1/1 | 1/1/1/1/1 | 1/1|0/1/1 / 1/0/1/1/1)
CL 18+2 (0|1|0/1/1 / 1/1/1/1/1 / 1/1|1/1/1 / 1/1/1/1/1) +2 MK
AC 41 (10 +3 dex +14 amr +4 shd +5 nat +5 defl))
SAVES 20/16/17
wearing:
+5 agile katana
+5 mithral full plate
wear (mithral) parade armor until 5, (mithral) kikko armor until 11, then (mithral) o-yoroi from there. fluff the HKS mask as the kabuto oni faceplate.
you know, the usual.
- - - - - - - - - -
GISH - NECROMANCER EDITION (obviously outside PFS, but great for way of the wicked)
dhampir fighter 1 / cruoromancer (sin mage (gluttony)) wiz 1 / EK 10 / HKS 8
str 16, dex 30 (5+2), con 20 (7-2), int 28 (7+2), wis 18 (1), cha 16
int/dex/dex/dex/dex (level) +6 all (gear), +4 dex/int/+1 con/wis (book/wish)
traits: magical knack (wizard) / signature spell (animate dead)
assiduous gaze:
16 - elucidation
19 - veracity
feats:
1 - weapon finesse, power attack*
3 - spell focus (necromancy), weapon focus (???)*
5 - arcane armor training
7 - still spell, weapon specialization (???)*
9 - varisian tattoo (necromancy)
11 - bloatmage initiate (necromancy), greater weapon focus (???)*
14 - arcane armor mastery*
13 - greater spell focus (necromancy)*
15 - persistent spell
17 - dazing spell
19 - spell perfection (animate dead)
spells:
0 (infinite), 1th (7+2/day), 2th (6+2/day), 3th (6+2/day), 4th (6+2/day), 5th (6+2/day), 6th (5+2/day), 7th (4+2/day), 8th (4+2/day), 9th (3+2/day)
BAB 17 (1|0|1/1/1 | 1/1/1/1/1 | 1/1|0/1/1 / 1/0/1/1/1)
CL 18+2 (0|1|0/1/1 | 1/1/1/1/1 | 1/1|1/1/1 / 1/1/1/1/1) +2 MK
AC 41 (10 +3 dex +14 amr +4 shd +5 nat +5 defl)
SAVES 20/21/18
endgame wearing:
+5 agile [finessable weapon of choice]
+5 mithral hellknight plate
wear (mithral) parade armor until 5, (mithral) armored coat until 14, and (mithral) hellknight plate from then on.
as an evil character this can actually qualify for the graveknight template rather seamlessly (since you're going for heavy armor anyway)
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Ok, I'm going to take another stab at it...this time making a few changes to hopefully make the Eldritch Knight option somewhat attractive.
Class –1 Wizard / 1 Urban Barbarian / 9 Eldritch Knight
Race – Elf
Traits -
* Unscathed
* Magical Knack: Wizard
Alt Elf Racial –
* Elemental Resistance – 7/fire, 7/cold, 7/acid, 7/electricity with Unscathed trait
Wizard School -
* Scryer (Divination)
Opposed Schools -
* Enchantment
* Necromancy
Stats -
Str: 9
Dex: 16 + 2 = 18
Con: 16 - 2 = 14
Int: 14 + 2 = 16
Wis: 10
Cha: 7
1) Urban Barbarian 1: Bab +1, Weapon Finesse (lvl 1), +1 hp
2) Wizard 1: Bab +1, Spell Focus: Evocation (wizard), Arcane Bond: Ring
3) Eldritch Knight 1: Bab +2, Piranha Strike (lvl 3), Weapon Focus: Short Sword (EK)
4) Eldritch Knight 2: Bab +3, +1 Dex, +1hp
5) Eldritch Knight 3: Bab +4, TWF (lvl 5)
6) Eldritch Knight 4: Bab +5,
7) Eldritch Knight 5: Bab +6/+1, Nimble Moves (lvl 7), Lunge (EK)
8) Eldritch Knight 6: Bab +7/+2, +1 Dex, +1 hp
9) Eldritch Knight 7: Bab +8/+3, Monkey Lunge (lvl 9)
10) Eldritch Knight 8: Bab +9/+4
11) Eldritch Knight 9: Bab +10/+5, Weapon Spec: Short Sword (lvl 11), Improved Critical: Short Sword (EK)
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[Below figures I’m estimating a modest +10 dex mod, including Urban Rage, Reduce Person, Cat’s Grace]
1) Lvl 11 Hp: 90 hp
2) AC: 28 (+3 Silken Ceremonial armor plus Urban Rage, Reduce Person, Cat’s Grace, Ring of Protection +2, Amulet of Natural Armor +2) Also have access to Mirror Image and Blur/Displacement/Blink.
[Below Figures Based on Two +2 Agile Short Sword]
3) Lvl 11 Atk bonus: +21/+21/+16, or +18/+18/+13 when Power Attacking
4) Level 11 Dmg estimate: 1d4, + 6 Piranha Strike, + 10 dex mod, + 2 Weap Spec = 22dmg + 22dmg 2nd attack, +19dmg off-hand = Max 63dmg
5) Short Sword Crit Chance: 16-20/x2 three chances a full-attack
**Note** Urban Barbarian: I lose Fast Movement but I can now rage for +4dex morale bonus. Seems good since it raises Initiative, AC, Reflexes, to-hit and dmg.
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Big changes was removing the ECB for a decent light weapon to remove the need for Str and allow Piranha Strike to be an option. Swapped 1 level of Fighter for Urban Barbarian for the +4dex rage which buffs my Reflex save, AC, to-hit, and dmg.
Also decided to keep Nimble Moves in there and added Lunge + Monkey Lunge so I can do stuff like Stone Call to make an area difficult terrain and then be able to full-attack and still 5ft step in the affected area while being able to lunge without penalty to AC.
How would you guys rate my estimated AC and +atk bonuses? I'm not too familiar with PFS gold accumulation at Lvl 11 but I'd assume I could afford Two +2 Agile Short Swords, +3 Silken Ceremonial armor, +2 Ring of Protection, +2 Amulet of Natural Armor.
Is my damage somewhat impressive while still being able to cast up to 5th level spells? Didn't include weapon buff spells into the estimate. I could probably squeeze +2dmg per swing (+6 total) if I removed Nimble Moves and took Arcane Strike but as far as I know that's about it.
A couple of points about Arcane Armor Training -
1. If you use your swift for Arcane Armor Training on rounds you cast, you might as well use your swift for Arcane Strike on rounds you melee.
2. If you're looking at ending up with a light armor that goes with your big dex bonus, do note that the spell Mage Armor is a +4ac with no dex restriction and it lasts for hours. By comparison, if you end up with a Darkleaf studded leather +2 while using armor training, you're at the same ac as if you had just cast Mage Armor and taken the dodge feat instead. Mage Armor uses a level 1 spell; the darkleaf +2 uses several thousand gold... and the cost of going above darkleaf +2 isn't very different from improving your deflection or natural armor. Both are totally effective choices, I just thought I'd point out that the choice is there.
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A couple of points about Arcane Armor Training -
1. If you use your swift for Arcane Armor Training on rounds you cast, you might as well use your swift for Arcane Strike on rounds you melee.
2. If you're looking at ending up with a light armor that goes with your big dex bonus, do note that the spell Mage Armor is a +4ac with no dex restriction and it lasts for hours. By comparison, if you end up with a Darkleaf studded leather +2 while using armor training, you're at the same ac as if you had just cast Mage Armor and taken the dodge feat instead. Mage Armor uses a level 1 spell; the darkleaf +2 uses several thousand gold... and the cost of going above darkleaf +2 isn't very different from improving your deflection or natural armor. Both are totally effective choices, I just thought I'd point out that the choice is there.
Well I was using a Silken Ceremonial armor since it had no dex restriction but I know what you mean. That would cut out about 9,300 gold to be used elsewhere.
I already scrapped the Arcane Armor Training but I'm up in the air on getting Arcane Strike...I could probably remove Nimble Moves, but then I can't cheese and make an area difficult terrain to deny enemies from 5ft full-attacking (especially Large creatures with reach). The Arcane Strike would net me +6dmg if all 3 of my attacks hit.
EDIT: What is everyone's thoughts on Lunge, Monkey Lunge, and Nimble Moves? I figured the reach would be useful and since I have access to spells like Stone Call / etc that create difficult terrain I figured Nimble Moves could be useful.
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A basic wand of mage armour is 750gp for 50 hours worth of protection - which is likely longer than you'll need for your entire career (although I'm not sure how buying stuff works in PFS to be honest). It's a great investment if you're not looking for better AC.
The ElK classic is a mithral breastplate (or mithral agile breastplate) or celestial armour, along with going for the Arcane Armour Mastery Feat, which gives a much better AC, but obviously costs both Feats and gp.
I think playing games with difficult terrain, reach, etc. could be potentially fun and effective, if you really like the idea roll with it.
Personally I wouldn't go that way because it seems like a lot of resources for something very situational. You're spending not only feats and spell slots, but the time it takes you to cast that spell. Instead of casting stone call and then dancing around for a tactical advantage, you could be hammering a foe with a beefed up scorching ray and/or hitting them with considerably more power. Plus, that tactic might totally gimp your party members, wouldn't work on many enemies, etc.
Incidentally there's some great things you can do with your one free trait slot. Wayang Spell Hunter works great with the Spell Specialization feat to give you an unreasonably powerful 'favorite spell'. As a simple example, by level 9 you could throw an Empowered Scorching Ray as a level 3 spell that inflicts 12d6+50% damage - normally you would have to wait for level 11 for that level of Scorching and it would take a level 4 slot to do it.
If you want a really unique and fun option in and out of combat, the trait Bruising Intellect lets you base the Intimidate skill off of your intelligence instead of charisma, which is a fun way to get some social leverage. The real beauty though comes from then taking the feat Cornugon Smash, and getting a free action chance to terrify foes you power attack...
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A basic wand of mage armour is 750gp for 50 hours worth of protection - which is likely longer than you'll need for your entire career (although I'm not sure how buying stuff works in PFS to be honest). It's a great investment if you're not looking for better AC.
The ElK classic is a mithral breastplate (or mithral agile breastplate) or celestial armour, along with going for the Arcane Armour Mastery Feat, which gives a much better AC, but obviously costs both Feats and gp.
Actually that equates to less AC due to the Max Dex bonus even with it being Mithral. Plus you're spending a feat and a swift action. I'll take Mage Armor + 10dex mod = +14AC over that.
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I think playing games with difficult terrain, reach, etc. could be potentially fun and effective, if you really like the idea roll with it.
Personally I wouldn't go that way because it seems like a lot of resources for something very situational. You're spending not only feats and spell slots, but the time it takes you to cast that spell. Instead of casting stone call and then dancing around for a tactical advantage, you could be hammering a foe with a beefed up scorching ray and/or hitting them with considerably more power. Plus, that tactic might totally gimp your party members, wouldn't work on many enemies, etc.
Incidentally there's some great things you can do with your one free trait slot. Wayang Spell Hunter works great with the Spell Specialization feat to give you an unreasonably powerful 'favorite spell'. As a simple example, by level 9 you could throw an Empowered Scorching Ray as a level 3 spell that inflicts 12d6+50% damage - normally you would have to wait for level 11 for that level of Scorching and it would take a level 4 slot to do it.
If you want a really unique and fun option in and out of combat, the trait Bruising Intellect lets you base the Intimidate skill off of your intelligence instead of charisma, which is a fun way to get some social leverage. The real beauty though comes from then taking the feat Cornugon Smash, and getting a free action chance to terrify foes you power attack...
Yeah, I do own the book for Cornugon Smash and was looking at that but saw it was based of Cha which i was tanking. The real issue now is no Power Attack....I guess I could adjust to 13Str and take Power Attack.
I don't own the book for Wayang Spell Hunter and swapping for Magical Lineage wouldn't do any good since I'm -2CL without Magical Knack. I could use some ideas for two other feats to improve my damage or effectiveness.
I could ditch TWF but I think it's boosting my damage compared to if I used an ECB. My to-hit seems pretty high so my TWF swings should hit often. I could remove Nimble Moves and replace with Arcane Strike which would give me a +6 to dmg if all 3 attacks hit.
Wayang Spell Hunter isn't a magic trait(!).
Oh, I must have missed TWF on your build there... the thing about TWF is that you have no hand free to cast. Also:
rough example - level 9
ECB: 1d10+2 (magic weapon) +7(agile weapon) +9(power attack) = 23.5
Attacks per round (haste): 3
TWF Mainhand = 1d6+2 (magic weapon) +7(agile weapon) +6(power attack) = 18.5
TWF Offhand = 1d6+2 (magic weapon) +3(agile weapon) +3(power attack) = 11.5
Attacks per round (haste): 5
Even with arcane strike, the overall damage difference is very minor. Now consider that you had to spend the gold to get a second agile weapon, you had to spend the feats to get TWF and ITWF, your TWF only works if you full-attack, your TWF drops your ab by 2, your TWF weapons are lower crit chance and cost another chunk of extra gold to make keen, your smaller damage packets suffer against damage reduction... if you really want to TWF go for it, but don't pick it for its power.
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Actually that equates to less AC due to the Max Dex bonus even with it being Mithral. Plus you're spending a feat and a swift action. I'll take Mage Armor + 10dex mod = +14AC over that.A basic wand of mage armour is 750gp for 50 hours worth of protection - which is likely longer than you'll need for your entire career (although I'm not sure how buying stuff works in PFS to be honest). It's a great investment if you're not looking for better AC.
The ElK classic is a mithral breastplate (or mithral agile breastplate) or celestial armour, along with going for the Arcane Armour Mastery Feat, which gives a much better AC, but obviously costs both Feats and gp.
Well Celestial Armour with max. Dex gives you +16 AC, and a Mithral Breastplate is, of course, pre-enhancement bonus, so with +5 that's up to +16 AC too.
But,as mentioned, I'm not really up on how PFS does these things, so that level of magic item may be out of reach - I was mentioning it more in a 'genric ElK' sense: sorry if that wasn't clear.
Wayang Spell Hunter isn't a magic trait(!).
Oh, I must have missed TWF on your build there... the thing about TWF is that you have no hand free to cast. Also:
rough example - level 9
ECB: 1d10+2 (magic weapon) +7(agile weapon) +9(power attack) = 23.5
Attacks per round (haste): 3TWF Mainhand = 1d6+2 (magic weapon) +7(agile weapon) +6(power attack) = 18.5
TWF Offhand = 1d6+2 (magic weapon) +3(agile weapon) +3(power attack) = 11.5
Attacks per round (haste): 5Even with arcane strike, the overall damage difference is very minor. Now consider that you had to spend the gold to get a second agile weapon, you had to spend the feats to get TWF and ITWF, your TWF only works if you full-attack, your TWF drops your ab by 2, your TWF weapons are lower crit chance and cost another chunk of extra gold to make keen, your smaller damage packets suffer against damage reduction... if you really want to TWF go for it, but don't pick it for its power.
The free hand and gold cost could be solved if he has his main weapon serve as his Arcane Bond. He could still cast spells with that sword in hand (and his other hand is occupied), and he could enhance that weapon for cost as if he possessed the relevant crafting feat. Again, I don't know if PFS will allow him to do the latter, but the former is hardly an issue when he gets his 1st level Wizard, and by RAW that's how it would be ran.
Arcane Strike doubles up when he uses two weapons, although you're correct, it doesn't scale nearly as well as Power Attack, though I didn't suggest he dump Strength that low; only to 13 so he can still take that feat. Arcane Strike + Power Attack makes his attacks extremely powerful with static bonuses. Assuming 2 out of 3 attacks are hits, the TWF build still pulls ahead, and by a fair enough margin for each hit.
Let me review the build again:
Class –1 Wizard / 1 Urban Barbarian / 9 Eldritch Knight
Race – Elf
Traits -
* Unscathed
* Magical Knack: WizardAlt Elf Racial –
* Elemental Resistance – 7/fire, 7/cold, 7/acid, 7/electricity with Unscathed traitWizard School -
* Scryer (Divination)Opposed Schools -
* Enchantment
* NecromancyStats -
Str: 9
Dex: 16 + 2 = 18
Con: 16 - 2 = 14
Int: 14 + 2 = 16
Wis: 10
Cha: 71) Urban Barbarian 1: Bab +1, Weapon Finesse (lvl 1), +1 hp
2) Wizard 1: Bab +1, Spell Focus: Evocation (wizard), Arcane Bond: Ring
3) Eldritch Knight 1: Bab +2, Piranha Strike (lvl 3), Weapon Focus: Short Sword (EK)
4) Eldritch Knight 2: Bab +3, +1 Dex, +1hp
5) Eldritch Knight 3: Bab +4, TWF (lvl 5)
6) Eldritch Knight 4: Bab +5,
7) Eldritch Knight 5: Bab +6/+1, Nimble Moves (lvl 7), Lunge (EK)
8) Eldritch Knight 6: Bab +7/+2, +1 Dex, +1 hp
9) Eldritch Knight 7: Bab +8/+3, Monkey Lunge (lvl 9)
10) Eldritch Knight 8: Bab +9/+4
11) Eldritch Knight 9: Bab +10/+5, Weapon Spec: Short Sword (lvl 11), Improved Critical: Short Sword (EK)************
[Below figures I’m estimating a modest +10 dex mod, including Urban Rage, Reduce Person, Cat’s Grace]
1) Lvl 11 Hp: 90 hp
2) AC: 28 (+3 Silken Ceremonial armor plus Urban Rage, Reduce Person, Cat’s Grace, Ring of Protection +2, Amulet of Natural Armor +2) Also have access to Mirror Image and Blur/Displacement/Blink.[Below Figures Based on Two +2 Agile Short Sword]
3) Lvl 11 Atk bonus: +21/+21/+16, or +18/+18/+13 when Power Attacking
4) Level 11 Dmg estimate: 1d4, + 6 Piranha Strike, + 10 dex mod, + 2 Weap Spec = 22dmg + 22dmg 2nd attack, +19dmg off-hand = Max 63dmg
5) Short Sword Crit Chance: 16-20/x2 three chances a full-attack**Note** Urban Barbarian: I lose Fast Movement but I can now rage for +4dex morale bonus. Seems good since it raises Initiative, AC, Reflexes, to-hit and dmg.
I need to ask, because it baffles me; how do you have resistance to the 4 primary elements in the game as an Elf? (Not really a bad thing, but just curious, and I wonder what you give up in exchange for it.)
Urban Barbarian archetype fits you perfectly; all you need for EK pre-reqs is Martial proficiency. Barbarian Rage makes you much more of a Nova character, but it keeps you in-line with the rest of the party when it matters. Although you don't get a Bonus Feat like you would with Fighter, you get more skills, a few more hit points, and your build can work without that feat anyway.
I suppose you can do with Necromancy being an opposed school; some of the better spells for your expected playstyle come from there (Vampiric Touch, for starters), but I can see the argument being made for Conjuration if you plan to be a hybrid type (Wall of X spells, Flaming Sphere, etc).
An Arcane Bond Ring isn't a bad idea, as it still allows you to cast spells with items held in that hand. Weapons are more expensive and would save you more money (in my opinion) if you can apply your own properties on there at cost, but are more at-risk of destruction or disarmaments. Just something to consider is all.
I have no clue as to why you dumped your Strength below 13. Power Attack and Arcane Strike give you quite a bit of static bonuses, and when you aren't busy casting spells, or even pre-capstone, Arcane Strike makes your attacks hit that much harder each time, and it doesn't cost you anything to do it. (You can even wait to use it after your attacks hit or determine if there are critical threats/confirmations, given the rule for Swift Actions.) Since you don't have huge damage dice, static bonuses are your bread and butter, and Power Attack is the highest static damage bonus you can get, at the cheapest cost, which is just one feat.
Although it's a ways off, I highly suggest you don't use Shortswords. It's cool to use the same weapon, but they're inefficient and don't work well for being a light yet deadly hitter. You want 18-20/X2 weapons; the best way to accomplish this while maintaining TWF and the Agile property is by using a Rapier main-hand and a Kukri off-hand. Even though it's 1D6 and 1D4 damage respectively, when you can get Keen on these weapons, your damage will come from your static bonuses and criticals, which multiply those static bonuses. Although you can't consolidate your fighter-only feats into one weapon type, I wouldn't personally recommend you take those feats as a TWF unless you're using a Double Weapon and/or you're a Two-Weapon Warrior Fighter archetype at a certain level.
If you want the ability to 5-foot in difficult terrain, Feather Step Slippers are a great item to get for all difficult terrain purposes, and it's only 2,000 gold. It'll be a long while before that kicks in, and by that point you'd rather want an item like Winged Boots or Boots of Speed in that slot. Feats are much more valuable than something that can just replace it for 2,000 gold. (Unless that too is banned in PFS?)
I also wouldn't bother with Monkey Lunge; RAW, it's broken and cannot work right, as the ability to make use of Lunge in the first place requires you to make attacks. Here's why:
As a standard action, you can use the Lunge feat to increase the reach of your melee attacks by 5 feet until the end of your turn, without suffering a penalty to your AC. You cannot use this feat if you carry a medium or heavy load.
Using a Standard Action (which means you can't attack, much less full attack) to be able to [essentially] use the Lunge Feat without AC penalties, means RAW, you can't make it work, and any PFS GM will try to screw you over with that bolded sentence. (And from what's been spouted on these forums so far, PFS GMs aren't too fair to those who aren't informed about how the rules would actually play out...) So you'll have to cut out both that and the regular Lunge feat. Bad news is, your build won't work the way you want it to. Good news is, you freed up a couple feats for yourself to put to (in my opinion) better things.
My suggestions? I'm guessing you won't have that many Nova encounter days in PFS, so spending a feat into Extra Rage may not be a bad idea since you only get one level's worth of rage, and your Constitution isn't exactly the highest, so you don't have too much extra rage rounds. Improved Initiative is always good to take. You're also a bit low on HP for a frontliner, taking Toughness may not be a bad idea, and you won't be emphasizing on your spellcasting statistic it looks like, so Combat Casting will be great for you too. With a high Dexterity, Combat Reflexes may not be a bad idea, since multiple AoOs in a round makes you a constant threat in melee combat, or Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, since getting 2 attacks in helps out a lot.
Another important thing: Wizards get access to special feats called "Arcane Discoveries." Though most of them are crap, the one called Opposition Research allows you to be able to take one of your opposed schools and be able to prepare them like any regular spell (instead of costing double slots), a valuable "feat" by the endgame if you want certain spells from your opposed schools. It requires you to be a 9th level Wizard (however, your EK levels add to Wizard levels for intents and purposes of feat pre-reqs, so it's possible to get it).
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I need to ask, because it baffles me; how do you have resistance to...
Elf Alt Racial in Advanced Races Guide - Elemental Resistance: Elves with this racial trait gain elemental resistance 5 to acid, cold, electricity, or fire.
The trait Unscathed adds +2 resistance to any existing resistances. I overlooked it earlier but I guess it's only 1 resistance. I figured it would have been all four as Aasimars get 3 with even more benefits and to get the resistance for an Elf you give up 'Elven Immunities' which is pretty good. Guess I'll scratch the Elemental Resistance alt Racial....pretty crappy choice tbh for 1 resistance type.
I have no clue as to why you dumped your Strength below 13.
Piranha Strike is the Dex version of Power Attack, so I never really gave up Power Attack. It requires Weapon Finesse and Bab +1 but it only works on light weapons. I wanted to stay around a sword theme and didn't want to cheese it up with wakizashis.
Although it's a ways off, I highly suggest you don't use Shortswords.
I could go back to 2hand ECB with it's 18-20 crit range, but I'd have to switch back to Power Attack since it's not a light weapon and bring my Str up to 13 or 14. (14str gives me a +3dmg 2handed bonus instead of a +1dmg)
An Arcane Bond Ring isn't a bad idea, as it still allows you to cast spells with items held in that hand. Weapons are more expensive and would save you more money (in my opinion) if you can apply your own properties on there at cost, but are more at-risk of destruction or disarmaments. Just something to consider is all.
I went with the ring since it's most likely not going to get disarmed/etc. They don't use Sunder typically in PFS but I figured if I got disarmed I'd be hosed for casting spells since rules state if I don't have my Arcane Bond I must make a concentration check for spells cast.
I'm not sure how PFS treats upgrading a Weapon that's an Arcane Bond though. Just went with ring since it's not a primary target for maneuvers.
Even though it's 1D6 and 1D4 damage respectively, when you can get Keen on these weapons, your damage will come from your static bonuses and criticals, which multiply those static bonuses.
I think you missed level 11's feat Improved Critical, which gives Keen. If I went with 1 weapon, ECB, I could use the Wizard spell to temporarily enchant my weapon to be Keen until 11th level. Would be pointless to pickup Improved Critical though if I'm just buying Keen weapons.
Wayang Spell Hunter isn't a magic trait(!).
Oh, I must have missed TWF on your build there... the thing about TWF is that you have no hand free to cast. Also:
rough example - level 9
ECB: 1d10+2 (magic weapon) +7(agile weapon) +9(power attack) = 23.5
Attacks per round (haste): 3TWF Mainhand = 1d6+2 (magic weapon) +7(agile weapon) +6(power attack) = 18.5
TWF Offhand = 1d6+2 (magic weapon) +3(agile weapon) +3(power attack) = 11.5
Attacks per round (haste): 5Even with arcane strike, the overall damage difference is very minor. Now consider that you had to spend the gold to get a second agile weapon, you had to spend the feats to get TWF and ITWF, your TWF only works if you full-attack, your TWF drops your ab by 2, your TWF weapons are lower crit chance and cost another chunk of extra gold to make keen, your smaller damage packets suffer against damage reduction... if you really want to TWF go for it, but don't pick it for its power.
I know Wayang isn't a magic trait, I just don't own the book (Can't use stuff in PFS unless you own the book that it's in). I mentioned if I went with the other trait that does the same thing, Magical Lineage, I wouldn't be able to pick Magical Knack since they are both Magic traits.
I just took TWF and was going to stop there. I guess I could have gotten ITWF, but you're completely right that it's double the cost since it's 2 weapons. Buff spells like Greater Magic Weapon only target 1 weapon also....so I'm probably better off going back to the ECB. I just figured the TWF would rack up more damage than 2handing would based on Weapon Specialization's +2dmg and Arcane Strike's +2dmg per swing.
I need to ask, because it baffles me; how do you have resistance to...Elf Alt Racial in Advanced Races Guide - Elemental Resistance: Elves with this racial trait gain elemental resistance 5 to acid, cold, electricity, or fire.
The trait Unscathed adds +2 resistance to any existing resistances. I overlooked it earlier but I guess it's only 1 resistance. I figured it would have been all four as Aasimars get 3 with even more benefits and to get the resistance for an Elf you give up 'Elven Immunities' which is pretty good. Guess I'll scratch the Elemental Resistance alt Racial....pretty crappy choice tbh for 1 resistance type.
I have no clue as to why you dumped your Strength below 13.Piranha Strike is the Dex version of Power Attack, so I never really gave up Power Attack. It requires Weapon Finesse and Bab +1 but it only works on light weapons. I wanted to stay around a sword theme and didn't want to cheese it up with wakizashis.
Although it's a ways off, I highly suggest you don't use Shortswords.I could go back to 2hand ECB with it's 18-20 crit range, but I'd have to switch back to Power Attack since it's not a light weapon and bring my Str up to 13 or 14. (14str gives me a +3dmg 2handed bonus instead of a +1dmg)
An Arcane Bond Ring isn't a bad idea, as it still allows you to cast spells with items held in that hand. Weapons are more expensive and would save you more money (in my opinion) if you can apply your own properties on there at cost, but are more at-risk of destruction or disarmaments. Just something to consider is all.
I had a feeling it was overlooked. Interesting that I was the only one who actually noticed it...(Or maybe other people did and just didn't care?) You'll also have to scratch the Unscathed character trait too, so you'll need to pick something else. +1 Will Saves or +2 Initiative is always nice...
I actually thought the Piranha Strike feat only granted -1/+1, but since it scales the same and you still get full Dexterity Bonus to damage for your main hand, even if it's a light weapon, it makes more sense. My mistake then; that actually makes it worthwhile to TWF with the same type of light weapon, and defeats the purpose of Power Attack if they don't stack. Now I finally understand, and that's better than the ECB, since you don't get 1.5x Dexterity when you two-hand with it, whereas you would get an effective 1.5x Piranha Strike and Dexterity bonus. (It also makes a feat like Double Slice pointless to snatch.) That being said, I still suggest you instead go from Shortswords to Kukris, as the 18-20/X2 is much more valuable to your build than dealing 1D6 over 1D4, as static damage and criticals are going to be your forte.
Tacking on +6/+3 from Piranha Strike, +3 from Arcane Strike, and your estimated high Dexterity (+10/+5), you're looking at doing 1D4+19 damage, doubled to ~2D4+38 damage from criticals with your main hand, and 1D4+11, doubled to ~2D4+22 damage from criticals with your off hand, both of which will occur at an average 1 in 4 chance with Keen Agile Kukris, while still able to maintain the ability to cast 5th level spells.
I'll point out that there is a FAQ that says you don't actually gain new spells when you level a Prestige Class that increases your casting, meaning you'll need to spend a more-than-substantial amount of your WBL to buying scrolls for your spellbook.
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That being said, I still suggest you instead go from Shortswords to Kukris, as the 18-20/X2 is much more valuable to your build than dealing 1D6 over 1D4, as static damage and criticals are going to be your forte.
I think I may go back to the ECB as I feel like I'm straying away from my character concept. I don't envision an Elven Knight wielding "daggers/kukris". An ECB fits the picture better, guess it frees up a feat also.
Here's v3 build with the changes.
Class –1 Wizard / 1 Urban Barbarian / 9 Eldritch Knight
Race – Elf
Traits -
* Bruising Intellect
* Magical Knack: Wizard
Wizard School -
* Scryer (Divination)
Opposed Schools -
* Enchantment
* Necromancy
Stats -
Str: 14
Dex: 15 + 2 = 17
Con: 15 - 2 = 13
Int: 14 + 2 = 16
Wis: 10
Cha: 7
1) Urban Barbarian 1: Bab +1, Weapon Finesse (lvl 1), +1 hp
2) Wizard 1: Bab +1, Spell Focus: Evocation (wizard), Arcane Bond: Ring
3) Eldritch Knight 1: Bab +2, Power Attack (lvl 3), Weapon Focus: ECB (EK)
4) Eldritch Knight 2: Bab +3, +1 Dex
5) Eldritch Knight 3: Bab +4, Weapon Spec: ECB (lvl 5)
6) Eldritch Knight 4: Bab +5,
7) Eldritch Knight 5: Bab +6/+1, Combat Reflexes (lvl 7), Cornugon Smash (EK)
8) Eldritch Knight 6: Bab +7/+2, +1 Con
9) Eldritch Knight 7: Bab +8/+3, Arcane Strike (lvl 9)
10) Eldritch Knight 8: Bab +9/+4
11) Eldritch Knight 9: Bab +10/+5, Critical Focus: ECB (lvl 11), Improved Critical: ECB (EK)
I could grab 'Accursed Critical' at 11th level but I'd be losing either Critical Focus or Improved Critical.
EDIT: Or I could remove Combat Reflexes, move Arcane Strike to 7th level, Improved Critical to 9th level, and be able to take Accursed Critical. Not sure if it's worth it though but it seems like that's the only Critical feat I can qualify for.
How does having an Arcane Bonded weapon allow you to use that hand to cast spells unless you are an Arcane Duelist Bard? An EK who has a weapon in each hand and wants to cast a spell is going to have to drop or sheath a weapon to do it as far as I know. Its not an impossible situation, but its sure a hefty problem.
Also, apparently in PFS you don't really get much out of Arcane Bond reducing costs for a weapon if I recall... it's kind of stupid but there it is.
Piranha Strike only works with light weapons, so you can't use it with an ECB. Something like 13/18/12/16/9/8 works just fine anyhow.
Edit - if you're looking at Urban Barbarian for a short little combat buff bonus, also consider a Guide Ranger.
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How does having an Arcane Bonded weapon allow you to use that hand to cast spells unless you are an Arcane Duelist Bard? An EK who has a weapon in each hand and wants to cast a spell is going to have to drop or sheath a weapon to do it as far as I know. Its not an impossible situation, but its sure a hefty problem.
Also, apparently in PFS you don't really get much out of Arcane Bond reducing costs for a weapon if I recall... it's kind of stupid but there it is.
Piranha Strike only works with light weapons, so you can't use it with an ECB. Something like 13/18/12/16/9/8 works just fine anyhow.
Edit - if you're looking at Urban Barbarian for a short little combat buff bonus, also consider a Guide Ranger.
Please check the builds attached. The one I was considering twf had Piranha Strike but the latest one that I went back to ECB it has Power Attack. If using a 2handed weapon a 13str gives +1dmg from 2handing as 1.5x +1 is 1 where a 14str gives +3 from 2handed as 1.5x +2 = 3. Spending the two points to go from 13str to 14str gives +2dmg per hit.
I'll take a look at Guide Ranger also.
Please check the builds attached.
I was responding/reacting generally to previous posts, but I do tend to skim...
The thing with having 14 strength is that it becomes irrelevant when you get an Agile weapon and your damage comes from dexterity instead. Early game though its helpful, and your CMD is a bit higher for it.
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Ok, I've been looking at some spells and I might be willing to switch to a Magus and focus on a few certain spells instead of trying to pump my dmg up with feats such as Weap Spec or Arcane Strike.
So here's the question, How does Strangling Hair work for a Magus? It says "Make a grapple check against the target using your caster level as the base attack bonus plus a bonus equal to your Intelligence bonus (if a witch or wizard) or Charisma bonus (if a sorcerer)."
Will the spell Strangling Hair not work for a Magus in PFS?
Ok, I've been looking at some spells and I might be willing to switch to a Magus and focus on a few certain spells instead of trying to pump my dmg up with feats such as Weap Spec or Arcane Strike.
So here's the question, How does Strangling Hair work for a Magus? It says "Make a grapple check against the target using your caster level as the base attack bonus plus a bonus equal to your Intelligence bonus (if a witch or wizard) or Charisma bonus (if a sorcerer)."
Will the spell Strangling Hair not work for a Magus in PFS?
You have to acquire that spell first, which you would usually do through Spell Blending. If acquired that way, it becomes a Magus spell and uses Intelligence just as other Magus spells do.
Well a Magus can't cast it until 7th level anyway.
But never use this spell as a Magus. The duration is concentration based, and you have so much more use for your actions than this provides.
Has someone already answered whether strangling hair can discharge a held touch spell?
Has someone already answered whether strangling hair can discharge a held touch spell?
I wouldn't think it possible, as the casting of Strangling Hair would kill a held charge on a touch spell, and casting a touch spell would nerf your concentration for maintaining Strangling Hair.
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I don't see anything saying that Concentration requires any action...just that you have to make the check for it to not end. I know some spells like Silent Image state you have to maintain concentration of that spell as a move action but not seeing where a concentration check in general requires actions. Let me know where you found this, thanks.
I don't see anything saying that Concentration requires any action...just that you have to make the check for it to not end. I know some spells like Silent Image state you have to maintain concentration of that spell as a move action but not seeing where a concentration check in general requires actions. Let me know where you found this, thanks.
From d20pfsrd:
ConcentrationThe spell lasts as long as you concentrate on it. Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Anything that could break your concentration when casting a spell can also break your concentration while you're maintaining one, causing the spell to end. See concentration.
You can't cast a spell while concentrating on another one. Some spells last for a short time after you cease concentrating.
This is listed under duration for spells in the section that describes the spell templates.