A player asked me today if there is the Almighty God in the gods of Pathfinder. I don't see that there is? They want their PC to worship the God Almighty.
FIRST QUESTION:
Is there any Pathfinder rules surrounding a Paladin worshipping the Almighty God (God of the Holy Bible) in a non-PFS?
SECOND QUESTION:
I've read several posts on the requirement of a Paladin to worship a god, and don't see it required in the CRB. Can you direct me to the area in the CRB talking about a paladin worshipping a god? All i see is a mention in the first sentence, " shines the power of the divine", and under Divine Bond.."forms a bond with her god."
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Ask your GM.
If you're the GM, one is there if you want there to be one. In the Golarion setting, however, there is no 'one true god', because, in part, that there is no bible to propose its existence. However, the GM is free to change that if he so desires.
No, paladins are not technically required to worship anything (neither are clerics, for that matter).
In PFS, there is a requirement that clerics and paladins worship a (singular) god from the approved list-of-PFS-gods. Outside of PFS, there's still no official mention or rules for the One True God (and there probably never will be one, for reasons that should be obvious). But there are also rules for divine casters that don't worship a specific deity.
To be honest, it's not difficult to implement it; many home games do. It all really depends on if you want a monotheistic world or a polytheistic world.
If it's the former, it becomes a tad difficult when you try and throw in things like Demons, Evil Clerics, or even other, yet similar subjects, such as Druids (and Druidism itself). Other prospects, such as witches and warlocks and other such heretics may be fairly common villains, and can be pivotal reasons for the Paladin to fall should he become or cause an immoral inquisition.
If it's the latter, then simply put it as just another god in your pantheon (who is said to be the most superior deity in all of the world). Should he interact with other deity-worshippers, he may have conflict, as his beliefs and religion, as with the real world, evidenced by Judaism, Buddhism, Islam, and many others, will most definitely cause problems and friction between factions he interacts with.
As for them requiring a deity, I'm not too sure. To be on the safe side, I'd say they should, though it wouldn't be much different for a Cleric to worship divine/absolute ideals of the world, and their powers are manifested from that belief.
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By default (That is, the Core Rulebook), divine casters do not require a deity.
Certain campaign settings change that, like Golarion and Forgotten Realms. In those settings, a divine spellcaster must choose a patron deity.
And any attempt to bring real-world religion into the game should be avoided at all costs. That is just begging to start trouble.
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And any attempt to bring real-world religion into the game should be avoided at all costs. That is just begging to start trouble.
This. A thousand times this.
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You can worship me if you like. I don't mind.
Alignment: True Neutral
Holy Symbol: The Thorn-Wreathed Eye
Domains: Artifice, Darkness, Knowledge, Madness, Void
Subdomains: Dark Tapestry, Loss, Nightmare, Stars, Thought
Portfolio: Creativity, Depression, Dreams, Literature
All this would take is to say that Iomedae (for example) has declared herself the only "true" god and having her followers push that viewpoint. Earth has thousands of deities that are worshipped and one (that I know of) has declared himself the one and only.
And any attempt to bring real-world religion into the game should be avoided at all costs. That is just begging to start trouble.This. A thousand times this.
Asian gods are represented in Pathfinder, I don't see why Allah or whoever shouldn't be allowed.
Here's my take on a couple of the most popular versions:
New Testament God
LG
Areas of Concern: Judgement, Forgiveness, Rebirth
Domains: Charm, Community, Good, Healing
Favoured Weapon: Unnarmed Strike
Old Testmanent God
LN
Areas of Concern: Order, Rulership, Punishment
Domains: Death, Destruction, Law, Repose
Favoured Weapon: Scythe
I think this god could be really interesting roleplay wise by making it so that a central part of his worship is the belief that he really is the one true god, and that all others are somehow invalid or fake.
...yeah...this is a bad idea on many levels. Just say no.
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If it's a singular ideal they're after have them draw power from goodness or the Light or whatever. I adamantly discourage bringing RL religion into the game.
Taking a page from Rahadoum "atheism," I toyed with the idea of having a paladin who only believed the deities of Golarion are simply powerful outsiders toying with people and not worthy of worship, and giving his faith and worship to Yahweh. As a Protestant, it's an interesting concept, but I typically prefer to keep my fiction and real faith separate.
Bad idea, with serious problems on the horizon. Punt on this one and fast.
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You can worship me if you like. I don't mind.
Alignment: True Neutral
Holy Symbol: The Thorn-Wreathed Eye
Domains: Artifice, Darkness, Knowledge, Madness, Void
Subdomains: Dark Tapestry, Loss, Nightmare, Stars, Thought
Portfolio: Creativity, Depression, Dreams, Literature
I cannot worship you.
I worship one who is more worthy, more powerful, and more beautiful.I worship the Dark_Mistress.
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By default (That is, the Core Rulebook), divine casters do not require a deity.
Certain campaign settings change that, like Golarion and Forgotten Realms. In those settings, a divine spellcaster must choose a patron deity.
And any attempt to bring real-world religion into the game should be avoided at all costs. That is just begging to start trouble.
Just a head's up, Golarion is actually connected to Earth in the setting, and 2 AP's actually dip into this. Mummy's Mask has already brought RL religion in with a lot of the Egyptian pantheon while Reign on Winter actually take the players to Russia. A 3rd product, Artifacts and Legends has a Christian Relic (but only vague references to God or Earth), but otherwise I'm pretty sure that Paizo is going to avoid Judeo-Christian as much as possible.
Which relic is the Christian one in Artifacts and Legends?
I also see there as being a bit of a difference with the use of the old Egyptian gods in Mummy's Mask given that, to the best of my knowledge, the ancient Egyptian faith is essentially a dead religion in the modern world. Far less chance for people getting offended by that than there is by bringing in current religions.
Well, the Monad is like the universal-consciousness, primordial semi-demiurge entity idea, so I suppose that's Golarion's uber-deity. It's briefly mentioned under the Aeons section in the bestiary.
Indeed, Testament RPG is pretty cool, if you're into that sort of campaign. My players and I generally won't touch that subject, but we generally prefer fantasy campaigns instead of real-world analogues anyway. Plus, a few probably think its sacrilegious, so there's that too.
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A post like this... rules forum not homebrew section... hours before PF staff are gone a day...
Get your ten foot poles to not touch this thread with! Right here! Ten foot Poles of Not Touching for sale, high quality, cheap!!!
Since there is a version of this here earth, with russians, more particularly a russian orthodox christiahn monk called Rasputin, exist in the golarion universe, I would suppose that there are russian orthodox christians, hence christians in the golarion universe. Yet, the whole, gratuitously elaborate system of morality, outer spheres, gods and demons seems very much incompatible with any kind of monotheism. Also note, that Rasputin is an Oracle with the Occult Mystery, not a Cleric.
If there is a deity corresponding to the "god almighty" of the russian orthodox golario-russians, it is a deity in the sense that i.e. Aroden was, not the way real world (maybe golarion earth) theology supposed. Maybe that deity sealed the world off against other gods' influence and that is the reason why he grants no magic on golarion earth, there's no one else there to claim any souls.
You can also just ignore all this and have that Paladin worship jesus if the player feels very uncomfortable with "pagan gods". How to square this with the Golarion material as presented can be your sisyphos labor, if such you'd like to shoulder.
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While this isn't that difficult to pull off mechanically, it's going to cause a whole ton of inter-personal trouble at your gaming table. Avoid.
That really depends on the table.
I've had several devout Christians (and one Rabbi) played as characters in a more modern setting (and using a different system). Yes, including ones with what amounted to divine magic. Mostly by non-Christians (and the Rabbi by a non-Jew). Heck, I played a devoutly Christian character in a Vampire LARP, and a devoutly Hindu one in a sci-fi tabletop game. Never had any problems.
That may have to do with the groups in question, but it's clearly very possible.
Now, it clearly doesn't fit in Golarion, and the idea of one God being omnipotent doesn't synch up with the default cosmology of Pathfinder at all well, but it's doable if you the GM think your group can handle it and work at it a bit.
One huge problem with adding real world religious figures into any rpg is the idea that PF gods interact and give major buffs and blessings to PC's, specifically clerics, whose whole class is based on this interaction. The problem occurs with the GM, who has to roleplay a deity who in most real world cases has unlimited intelligence, wisdom, and power. With legendary or fictional gods and demigods, the GM has an "out" as far as not having to rp them as all powerful/all knowing. Realistically, even a minor demon lord would be far more cunning than a person, and it is quite a stretch to even rp that far for a GM. To sum up, it is harder than it should be to GM a real world religious figure, and you should inform your player of that.
I made a muslim Prince as a character in one game my GM just reskinned Pelor as having a following that looked a lot like the belive in Allah and we, my character and the rest of his part of the World, regarded the other gods as saints or devils respectively.
Remember they had to edit the Bible to get rid of the other Gods mentioned in it.
Testament is a great game. Pendragon, Ars Magica, Mage: The Sorcerer's Crusade, and GURPS Yrth are great settings. But bringing those themes into Golarion is going to be tricky. You know, I think you could take a page from the Death Gate Cycle, by Weis and Hickman, which actually does purport the existence of a (somewhat mysterious) supreme power. DC Comics also has an unnamed, but vaguely Judeo-Christian Source that in turns reflects a highest power, with the pagan gods and even angels being more like powerful outsiders.
If you want a compelling fantasy setting that has a true medieval feel, monotheism is pretty much necessary. The middle ages in Europe was not an environment where you could simply "choose" your own religion. It's tricky to do but I've seen it done a number of times in Fantasy literature.
However, medieval Christian monotheism wasn't a perfect monotheism, in the sense that there was a wide "pantheon" of saints and angels who could be prayed to. This is still true of Catholics, though not Protestants. There were also alternate religious movements that were dubbed heretics by the official church.
However, Golarion is not even remotely a medieval setting. So since we are not trying to recreate the world of medieval Europe, we don`t have to replicate a monotheistic religion in Golarion, and in fact trying to do so would alter the canon material so drastically that in my mind you would be better off creating a whole new campaign world (stealing bits and pieces as you see fit, of course).
If you want to play a god with a theology like that of Christianity you should pick something like Sarenrae or perhaps Iomedae. Ragathiel is also good if you want to be more "wrathful."`
Peet
It is worth noting that Iceland didn't officially abandon paganism until the 10th century.
It is worth noting that Iceland didn't officially abandon paganism until the 10th century.
Lithuania didn`t abandon paganism until the late 14th century.
But of course, if you are using the Christian god as real and Christian theology as true, then the paganism of those periods is essentially a form of demon- or devil-worship.
Peet
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But of course, if you are using the Christian god as real and Christian theology as true, then the paganism of those periods is essentially a form of demon- or devil-worship.
Which, as the demonization of a real-world religion, is way more problematic and potentially offensive than the mere inclusion of real world religions in a positive context.
For the record.
The problem with a monotheistic world with pathfinder is that all divine magic is sourced from the gods. If you remove all but a single god, you either remove all divine magic that isn't sourced from that god's domains, or you grant that singular god all domains. Ultimately, you remove all flavor from divine magic in the process.
Now, something the world I'm playing in right now has, is a region that predominately worships a singular god, but different people worship a different 'aspect' of that god. That in no way means the other gods of the pantheon don't exist, and really doesn't mean that that singular god 'exists'. There's no reason that someone praying to an aspect of this particular god isn't actually getting granted from the pantheon god associated what that 'aspect'.
relevant AP or adventure?Now that i think about it, if there is Almighty God who created this universe he is not the one who created Pathfinder world. That one is called Jason :D
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The problem with a monotheistic world with pathfinder is that all divine magic is sourced from the gods. If you remove all but a single god, you either remove all divine magic that isn't sourced from that god's domains, or you grant that singular god all domains. Ultimately, you remove all flavor from divine magic in the process.
That's not really true. Non-Deities can grant magic in Pathfinder/Golarion, such as Empyreal Lords, Arch Devils, the Four Horsemen, etc. Including a God/Jesus/Allah, etc . . . doesn't necessarily mean that the world is monotheistic. Even biblically speaking, there are other deities mentioned which grant magic. A good portion of the miracles of Moses have the Pharaoh's priests doing the same things like turning staffs to snakes.
Which relic is the Christian one in Artifacts and Legends?
Saint Cuthbert's Mace on page 41.
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But of course, if you are using the Christian god as real and Christian theology as true, then the paganism of those periods is essentially a form of demon- or devil-worship.Which, as the demonization of a real-world religion, is way more problematic and potentially offensive than the mere inclusion of real world religions in a positive context.
For the record.
So much for inclusion, right.
But anyway, it really, really depends on to what extent you mean "as true". In the setting, the various faiths all have creation stories that "are true", but also contradict and falsify other deity's creation mythology. Now, on the other hand, you could go the inclusive route or trying to get something for everyone and have the Christian/Jewish/Islamic/etc. . . god as an option without automatically jumping to the conclusion that doing so would invalidate or demonize others (and why is that ok one way, but not the other?). Golarion isn't RL, and it's pretty clear that Golarion was basically cut-off from the rest of universe to limit outside forces from interfering much, (as we can see in the Egyptian pantheon in Osirion's history, particularly in how they sort of stopped really being a presence for a long, long time). One of the setting's basic ideas is that deity's do not require worship or followers to exist or to gain/maintain power, (that is they do not loose their divine status or weaken if their worshipers all go away, they just have no tools to use indirectly on the mortal plane).
