So in this sessions I'm having, one of the players just started as a paladin after his previous character died. My character died last time as well and I am thinking of making an Anti Paladin for the sake of having a nice set of role playing moments.
My question is really, is such a thing possible considering we both play to the T on our role playing?
If so, what would you recommend for a build for a Anti Paladin.
Arch types, races and so on are welcome.
You would have it easier, antipaladins are allowed to work with good as long as the cause of evil is furthered in the end (and slaughtering many opponents in your wake could be considered evil, especially as all their souls further bolster the ranks of fiends) but the paladin might be required to go smite happy on you if he finds out you're an AP, so try to afford a ring of mind shielding.
I have a Dragon Disciple build for antipallies
Str 16, Dex 11, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 15 assuming 20 point buy
Put all level-up bonuses to Cha
Antipaladin 2/Bard (archaeologist) 1/AP 2/Dragon Disciple 10/Brd 3/AP 2
alternately
AP 2/Brd 3/DD 10/Brd 1/AP 4
Traits: Fate's Favored, either armor expert or magical knack
level 1: Power Attack, Skill Focus (Knowledge: Planes)
level 3: Lingering Performance
level 9: Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal)
Level 11: Improved Eldritch Heritage
By level 20 your stats are Str 26, Dex 11, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 20 before any gear.
The Int 12 is so you can know Draconic without having to put a point into linguistics. An alternate take would be to Dex 10, Int 10, Cha 16 and use a rank from the bard level to grab linguistics.
Do you want to ruin all the fun for the other player as well as the other players and the GM ? Then, by all means play as kikid advised. But don't be surprised when the DM rips up your sheet or throws you from the group.
If you seriously want to make it work, consider how Paladins and LE people work together in the Hellknights, and go from that. See also the relationship between the iconic Paladin and the iconic LE magus.
Wow, I don't know how you read my question as "I want to ruin all the fun" but like I said, I want to do it for role playing purposes so of course the other paladin and the GM already know about the possibility. Also I think that if a GM kicks you out of the group for playing an evil character then he is doing something wrong from the start. He could have said no to being an evil character.
You would have it easier, antipaladins are allowed to work with good as long as the cause of evil is furthered in the end (and slaughtering many opponents in your wake could be considered evil, especially as all their souls further bolster the ranks of fiends) but the paladin might be required to go smite happy on you if he finds out you're an AP, so try to afford a ring of mind shielding.
I have a Dragon Disciple build for antipallies
** spoiler omitted **
Sounds like a nice plan with the ring and all. This is mainly what I meant with being an Anti-Paladin next to a Paladin. Though I haven't thought of the ring yet. Also I'll take a look at that build :)
Thanks!
Really depends. Is your friend one of those Paladins who Detects Evil every time he meets someone new and blindly attacks if he does? If so then no it probably won't work. If on the other hand he just frowns disapprovingly until they give him a reason to attack then yeah it can absolutely work.
Well he doesn't attack blindly at all. He plays like a paladin actually should. If the evil person acts out of line, then he does something. If you randomly attack some evil guy then that isn't really LG imo.
@OP: Interesting username.
Yes it is isn't it? I've always used it so yeah. Also if you're implying that I am trolling then rest assured, I am not. If you believe me is up to you :)
Then you're golden.Really depends. Is your friend one of those Paladins who Detects Evil every time he meets someone new and blindly attacks if he does? If so then no it probably won't work. If on the other hand he just frowns disapprovingly until they give him a reason to attack then yeah it can absolutely work.Well he doesn't attack blindly at all. He plays like a paladin actually should. If the evil person acts out of line, then he does something. If you randomly attack some evil guy then that isn't really LG imo.
Yeah I figured but not too sure if I really will do it. It's an option :)
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Honestly your posts reads to me as: "How can I ruin all the fun?", even if you haven't thought of it that way.
Seriously, why you may think this is interesting the only way this can play out is with one of you killing the other. An antipaladin may be able to justify hanging around an unwitting paladin to further his own evil ends, but the paladin is by the virtue of the game quite bound to being forced to leave the party/kill the antipaladin as soon as it's discovered. Attempting to hide it, especially with the help of the GM will only create feelings of mistrust in the future. Over all, this is a terrible idea and you simply shouldn't do it.
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Playing a LE Hellknight in a party with a Paladin? Yeah, it's doable.
Playing a CE Antipaladin in a party with a Paladin? Nope. There is literally no reason why he shouldn't smite you on sight, given how the code of the Antipaladin is to kill and destroy everything he gets near and only refrain from it for the reason of doing it more efficiently a little bit later. You are literally building a character designed for PvP griefing.
Don't do it. The other player made a Paladin and you think they are going to enjoy sharing the spotlight with a villain? I can't imagine the Paladin player enjoying having a party member constantly lie, cheat, and steal and CE means that you do all of those things if you feel like it and think you can get away with it. You can easily create tense roleplaying between a CG or CN character and a Paladin without playing evil, I suggest that you do this instead. The point of the game is for everyone to have fun, playing evil when everyone else isn't is basically a declaration of "I'm more important than everyone else" and nobody likes that attitude in others.
Sorry people but I have been clear on the fact that both the GM and paladin know about this and therefore agreed to it. I am in no way whatsoever thinking that killing the paladin is the only interesting outcome to this. I am in fact betting on the opposite. Him defeating me and giving him the spotlight.
But I can see that this isn't going anywhere as to people who do not understand I am trying for something different even when I specifically said so. So I am quitting this thread.
I thank the other users who gave fair opinions and even suggestions in the idea I wanted to see.
I dont see how the others Can work with a antipaladin. Someone that lose his powers if he Does a good act. You need to work with the GM and the others to make a really good story for this to happen.
If you end up doing it i am curious how it goes so remember to get back with a Update.
I dont see how the others Can work with a antipaladin. Someone that lose his powers if he Does a good act. You need to work with the GM and the others to make a really good story for this to happen.
If you end up doing it i am curious how it goes so remember to get back with a Update.
I'm with this guy. Even in a group that doesn't have a paladin, the Antipaladin is a class that really isn't meant for PCs in good campaigns.
The paladin being there just drives the point home.
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What extremely good IC reason do you have for being in the same party as a paladin? And for him to be in the party with you?
Every party needs an OOC reason and an IC reason to stay together, and not too many reasons to break up. OOC is probably because you like the other players :) IC a party usually has some sort of main goal - save dragons from evil princesses, loot dungeons, build a kingdom etc.
Now, this IC reason is often a bit flimsy - everyone knows the real reason these oddball murderhobos work together is because the players want them to. But if the IC reason is at least plausible, that enables more roleplay. The opposite is worse: if the party shouldn't be together IC because these characters really can't get along, have no reason to want to get along, and are basically by design meant to defeat each other (paladin-antipaladin).
If the party is "together" against all IC reasonableness, that actually hurts RP. If all the characters really want is to be rid of the other guy, then why don't they either split up the party, leave or kill each other? If you stay together only because OOC those are the PCs of other players, but everything IC screams to split, then I call that anti-roleplaying; you're doing the opposite of what makes sense for your character to do.
So, if you want to do this and have it be good for RP, you need to come up with a really really good reason why they're in the same party. And be prepared for the very likely possibility that once the current "threat to the whole world, so we have to work together" is past, that one of those PCs has to be retired anyway because staying together is just too implausible.
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Role playing good inter-party conflict requires a natural "Foil" for your character. An Anti-paladin is not the foil of a Paladin.
A Paladin's natural foil is a chaotic good thief that constantly breaks the law to accomplish good things, or an ironclad LE Hellknight that refuses to see mercy as a benefit to society.
A true "Nemisis" needs to be able to utter the phrase, "We're not so different, you and I..." Otherwise you are just creating meaningless conflict...
A LG Paladin of Abadar and a LE Inquisitor of Abadar would be good.
A LG Paladin of Shelyn and a CG Bard of Shelyn would be good.
I read the title like the "One fish, two fish" Dr. Seuss poem. Is that weird?
If you play it to the "T" one of you will most likely have to kill the other one. <--Keep that in mind.
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If it is done properly, there will be only one left alive or with any paladin/antipaladin abilities after two adventures.
If rules and codes are suspended--it will be possible.
I once played a character that was a evil selfish bastard but he was cursed to do good. He tried to betray the others but no matter what he did it always ended up with him saving the Day and hating it. It was fun but he wouldent have made it as a anti paladin.
If you want to play a selfish bastard look at a order of the cocatrice cavalier. It Can be fun but be ready to be comic relif. If the rest of the party is good.