Advanced Class Guide: Known Class Archetypes


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Necromancer wrote:
logan grayble wrote:
Any word on the new Druid archetypes? It's hard to believe they could do anything else to them.
There's not much, just three archetypes that borrow abilities from hunter, slayer, and investigator classes.

What does it exchange and what does it get from Hunter?


Man, I really want to see the archetypes and their mechanics.


RHMG Animator wrote:
Lemartes wrote:
What does the Mutagenic Mauler exchange and what does he get?

Swaps

Mutagen for Martial Flexibility
Beastmorph for AC bonuses

Thanks.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Thanks for all the info. I can't wait for the PDF to go on-sale. The hype is real.


logan grayble wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
logan grayble wrote:
Any word on the new Druid archetypes? It's hard to believe they could do anything else to them.
There's not much, just three archetypes that borrow abilities from hunter, slayer, and investigator classes.
What does it exchange and what does it get from Hunter?

Two tiers of animal focus (bonuses related to each chosen animal) and loses nature bond, venom immunity, thousand faces, and timeless body. I haven't tried out the hunter yet, so I've got no idea if this trade is as bad as it sounds.


I've asked in the knee jerk thread, but could anyone give some information on the two Paladin archetypes? Particularly, the one that sounds interesting is Temple Champion.

I've got a PbP game starting soon and would like to know if I should bother my DM to get permission to use either of them early.


Temple champion drops spellcasting for first level domain access to one domain related to their deity. They drop divine bond and aura of justice to pick up a minor blessing at level five and a major one at level eleven. The blessing must match the previous domain choice. They use CHA in place of WIS when using the domain's power and blessing abilities.

Blessings work a bit like channel energy regarding per diem specifics. It doesn't sound like much, but the major blessing abilities are nice.


what about the investigator archetypes? any cool stuff?


Any information about the Bard: Flame Dancer and Voice of the Wild are they any good? Are there new Bard Feats?

Swashbuckler: Flying Blade can you use him with the Deadly Dealer Feat or does he throw just Knives??

Tank you for the Info(specialy any Bard intel)

Silver Crusade

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I haven't looked too much on the stuff, but I'd really want a Flame Dancer in the party, should we take on a red dragon. Fire resistance to the entire party? And pretty high as well!


Really excited about Hooded Champion and Daring Champion!

Too bad there is no exciting Fighter or Rogue archetype here...

Grand Lodge

Any information on the hooded champion? I asked on the product page but it got lost in dex2damage hate.

Silver Crusade

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
London Duke wrote:
Any information on the hooded champion? I asked on the product page but it got lost in dex2damage hate.

It's a swashbuckler/ranger. Gains Panache and some selected Deeds in place of some ranger features like evasion and wild empathy and others.

Has to use Archery combat style.

Grand Lodge

Does it still have spells and AC?


London Duke wrote:
Does it still have spells and AC?

And does it get panache out of WIS?

If so, it would work pretty well with the Skirmisher archetype.

Silver Crusade

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Does not loose the spells or companion. and Panache seems to be based of CHA.

Can't be taken with woodland skirmisher as both replace wild empathy.


I meant the Skirmisher Skirmisher... but if Panache is based off CHA, then not likely.

Liberty's Edge

Secret Wizard wrote:
London Duke wrote:
Does it still have spells and AC?

And does it get panache out of WIS?

If so, it would work pretty well with the Skirmisher archetype.

It (along with the rest of the Ranger and Rogue archetypes) can be found here.

And to answer your questions, it still has spells and an AC, and the Panache pool is Charisma based.

EDIT: Ninja'd. Ah, well, at least I provided a relevant link.

Silver Crusade

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

It's a bad thing those are named pretty much alike, but yeah, you could make a hooded champion+skirmisher. You'd need a high CHA anyway for the companion.


Necromancer wrote:
None for the paladin class, but the Champion of the Faith (warpriest archetype) gets smite and detect evil. This isn't restricted to LG and only requires the character to share part of their alignment with one of Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law (chosen at creation). This character would also be able to grab a new feat that adds CHA to saves.

Dammit, I finally got about my smite-envy got detect any alignment through the Inquisitor and now you need that for the best thing those lawful goodies have left? :D


Korthis wrote:
what about the investigator archetypes? any cool stuff?

All of them, but the empiricist stands out as it drops poison training and defenses to use INT for almost everything.

Liberty's Edge

Necromancer wrote:
Korthis wrote:
what about the investigator archetypes? any cool stuff?
All of them, but the empiricist stands out as it drops poison training and defenses to use INT for almost everything.

What precisely constitutes 'almost everything'? Because this is sounding perfect for my Lashunta Warrrior-Scientist Investigator build, and I'd like to know what extra stuff they can use Int for.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
Korthis wrote:
what about the investigator archetypes? any cool stuff?
All of them, but the empiricist stands out as it drops poison training and defenses to use INT for almost everything.
What precisely constitutes 'almost everything'? Because this is sounding perfect for my Lashunta Warrior-Scientist Investigator build, and I'd like to know what extra stuff they can use Int for.

"almost everything" might have been a bit excessive

INT replaces abilities on: disable device, perception, sense motive, and use magic device checks; diplomacy checks used to gather information

for someone running and playing a ton of mystery-heavy campaigns, this is a massive advantage

At level four (as part of a saves vs. illusions ability), an inspiration point can be burned to use INT instead of WIS on will saves vs. illusions or anything required a save to disbelieve.

And the capstone:
Master Intellect (Ex): At 20th level, an empiricist’s powers
of reason and deduction become almost superhuman, and he
is able to use them in nearly all aspects of life. At 20th
level, an empiricist can use inspiration on all skills (even
ones he is not trained in) and all ability checks (including
initiative checks) without spending inspiration. This
ability replaces true inspiration.

So yeah, "almost everything" was a bit knee-jerk, but I stand by my estimation of the empiricist's value.


Any investigator archetype that buff his ability in combat? Like strengthening combat maneuvers? Granting him more options in combat? Or maybe just a raw damage increase? And if it exists what does it swap out to get these more combat focused abilities?

Liberty's Edge

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Necromancer wrote:

"almost everything" might have been a bit excessive

INT replaces abilities on: disable device, perception, sense motive, and use magic device checks; diplomacy checks used to gather information

for someone running and playing a ton of mystery-heavy campaigns, this is a massive advantage

At level four (as part of a saves vs. illusions ability), an inspiration point can be burned to use INT instead of WIS on will saves vs. illusions or anything required a save to disbelieve.

** spoiler omitted **

Oh, dear lord yes, that's awesome. In combination with Student of Philosophy (a Trait I was planning on taking for the character I planned anyway) that makes Int utterly spectacular, and almost the only stat I'd need! That's phenomenally cool to get in exchange for the poison stuff (which I've never cared about on any character).

Necromancer wrote:
So yeah, "almost everything" was a bit knee-jerk, but I stand by my estimation of the empiricist's value.

And I agree with it! That's just great. Thank you very much for the information. :)

Liberty's Edge

Wolfgang Rolf wrote:
Any investigator archetype that buff his ability in combat? Like strengthening combat maneuvers? Granting him more options in combat? Or maybe just a raw damage increase? And if it exists what does it swap out to get these more combat focused abilities?

While I'm interested in the answer here, I'd also like to note that the default Investigator seems to be very solid indeed in combat. Studied Combat is an utterly awesome bonus by most standards, and very nice to have, and stacks with all their Alchemist-list buff spells (ie: 2/3 of their spell list), and potentially with Inspiration and a Mutagen as well.


Wolfgang Rolf wrote:
Any investigator archetype that buff his ability in combat? Like strengthening combat maneuvers? Granting him more options in combat? Or maybe just a raw damage increase? And if it exists what does it swap out to get these more combat focused abilities?

Sleuth adds a panache (sleuth's luck) pool and related deeds.

Spiritualist has a few bits that aid in combat, but the archetype's primarily for defense and utility.

Steel Hound includes proficiency in a firearm type, swaps gunsmithing and amateur gunslinger for poison use. Can grab extra grit and rapid reload in lieu of a talent. Gains a single deed to help mitigate enemy concealment and gains access to gunslinger deeds at the four-less than the investigator's level.


Thanks for the information, does the Sleuth's panache/luck depend on intellect or charisma? Not too excited about the spiritualist and while the Steel Hound seems interesting I don't see many games allowing guns so won't be using that archetype much.

@Deadmanwalking Oh I am not denying that, I was just hoping for something that gave the investigator access to more weapons or bonuses to cmb. Something like an investigator who's been a guard or warrior before he decided to switch professions.


Necromancer wrote:
Wolfgang Rolf wrote:
Any investigator archetype that buff his ability in combat? Like strengthening combat maneuvers? Granting him more options in combat? Or maybe just a raw damage increase? And if it exists what does it swap out to get these more combat focused abilities?

Sleuth adds a panache (sleuth's luck) pool and related deeds.

Spiritualist has a few bits that aid in combat, but the archetype's primarily for defense and utility.

Steel Hound includes proficiency in a firearm type, swaps gunsmithing and amateur gunslinger for poison use. Can grab extra grit and rapid reload in lieu of a talent. Gains a single deed to help mitigate enemy concealment and gains access to gunslinger deeds at the four-less than the investigator's level.

The inspired strike feat also increases damage (by the 1d6 or 1d8 inspiration die) when using studied combat.


Wolfgang Rolf wrote:

Thanks for the information, does the Sleuth's panache/luck depend on intellect or charisma? Not too excited about the spiritualist and while the Steel Hound seems interesting I don't see many games allowing guns so won't be using that archetype much.

@Deadmanwalking Oh I am not denying that, I was just hoping for something that gave the investigator access to more weapons or bonuses to cmb. Something like an investigator who's been a guard or warrior before he decided to switch professions.

The Sleuth's luck pool size is keyed to CHA.


Necromancer wrote:
Wolfgang Rolf wrote:

Thanks for the information, does the Sleuth's panache/luck depend on intellect or charisma? Not too excited about the spiritualist and while the Steel Hound seems interesting I don't see many games allowing guns so won't be using that archetype much.

@Deadmanwalking Oh I am not denying that, I was just hoping for something that gave the investigator access to more weapons or bonuses to cmb. Something like an investigator who's been a guard or warrior before he decided to switch professions.

The Sleuth's luck pool size is keyed to CHA.

Once more thanks for the info, they're really making CHA important with these archetypes that give Panache and Deeds.


Necromancer wrote:
All of them, but the empiricist stands out as it drops poison training and defenses to use INT for almost everything.

If I may ask a super-specific question, how many class features does the Empiricist Investigator swap out by 4th level?

I'm trying to prepare for any necessary rebuilding and retraining on my PFS Investigator.


redward wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
All of them, but the empiricist stands out as it drops poison training and defenses to use INT for almost everything.

If I may ask a super-specific question, how many class features does the Empiricist Investigator swap out by 4th level?

I'm trying to prepare for any necessary rebuilding and retraining on my PFS Investigator.

Loses: poison lore*, poison resistance*, swift alchemy**, and true inspiration***

Gains: Ceaseless Observation (INT used on select skills)*, Unfailing Logic (saves vs. illusion bonuses and related ability)**, Master Intellect (see above spoilered capstone)***

Edit: missed the "by fourth level"; three class features are swapped.


Necromancer wrote:
redward wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
All of them, but the empiricist stands out as it drops poison training and defenses to use INT for almost everything.

If I may ask a super-specific question, how many class features does the Empiricist Investigator swap out by 4th level?

I'm trying to prepare for any necessary rebuilding and retraining on my PFS Investigator.

Loses: poison lore*, poison resistance*, swift alchemy**, and true inspiration***

Gains: Ceaseless Observation (INT used on select skills)*, Unfailing Logic (saves vs. illusion bonuses and related ability)**, Master Intellect (see above spoilered capstone)***

Edit: missed the "by fourth level"; three class features are swapped.

Thanks very much!


So what does the bounty hunter lose to gain the grapple, dirty trick and incapacitating abilities, also what are the dirty trick focused abilities comparable to? The Cad archetype maybe?


Wolfgang Rolf wrote:
So what does the bounty hunter lose to gain the grapple, dirty trick and incapacitating abilities, also what are the dirty trick focused abilities comparable to? The Cad archetype maybe?

Bounty hunter slayers gain weapon proficiencies in aklys, bolas, dan bong, lasso, and net; armor proficiencies light armor, light shields, and bucklers.

For dirty trick, I'll just copy it here:
Dirty Trick (Ex): At 2nd level, anytime a bounty hunter is
able to deal sneak attack damage to a studied target, he can
instead attempt to hamper the target. The bounty hunter
must declare that he’s using this ability before the attack
roll is made. If the attack hits, it deals damage normally, but
instead of rolling sneak attack damage, the bounty hunter can
attempt a dirty trick combat maneuver against the studied
target as a free action, adding 1 to the combat maneuver check
for each die of the bounty hunter’s sneak attack damage. This
combat maneuver does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
This ability replaces the slayer talent gained at 2nd level.

Submission hold (nonlethal sneak attack damage during a grapple) replaces the slayer talent gained at level six.

Incapacitate (nonlethal version of assassinate) replaces the advanced slayer talent grabbed at level ten.


Ok, so we have a Cavalier Archetype available.
What about any new Orders?
How about Rage Powers? Any new ones that stand out?


Necromancer wrote:
Wolfgang Rolf wrote:
So what does the bounty hunter lose to gain the grapple, dirty trick and incapacitating abilities, also what are the dirty trick focused abilities comparable to? The Cad archetype maybe?

Bounty hunter slayers gain weapon proficiencies in aklys, bolas, dan bong, lasso, and net; armor proficiencies light armor, light shields, and bucklers.

** spoiler omitted **

Submission hold (nonlethal sneak attack damage during a grapple) replaces the slayer talent gained at level six.

Incapacitate (nonlethal version of assassinate) replaces the advanced slayer talent grabbed at level ten.

Thank you so much for the information, I love how I am actually debating myself on whether I should go with the bounty hunter archetype or just the base slayer. It will all depend on how powerful slayer talents, and whether I could afford trading a few for these abilities.


Major_Blackhart wrote:

Ok, so we have a Cavalier Archetype available.

What about any new Orders?
How about Rage Powers? Any new ones that stand out?

Cavalier gets an Order of the Beast option that lets his mount wild shape into other mounts, gains wild empathy, and picks up some related druidy-rangery skills.

All of the barbarian's new rage powers are bloodrager bloodlines (mostly the same as sorcerer's) fractured into easy-to-swallow bits at sixth and tenth level minimums (lesser and greater). The skald's got some nice rage powers open to barbarians:

Linnorm Curses (one for each type, I think) add an additional one damage related to the linnorm type chosen and inflicts a curse (also dependent on linnorm type; a will save) on the target.

Raging Flier allows the user to fly at their base speed once per rage. This ability can be used with a charge attack. Requires raging leaper rage power.

Ultimate Clarity can be used once a rage to see enemies using darkness, blur, invisibility, etc. for one round. Requires two other rage powers to select.


Interesting.
How do the Skald Archetypes look?


Major_Blackhart wrote:

Interesting.

How do the Skald Archetypes look?

Fated Champion counts half the skald's level as an initiative bonus. Fear immunity at level ten with bonus for allies. Spells dealing with discerning the future are a level lower and damage-dealing spells cost a higher spell slot. The capstone's decent: spend ten raging song rounds to reroll a save or opponent's attack.

Herald of the Horn gets a magic horn with related abilities. An all-around solid archetype and I like the idea of sounding a horn before raging, but some may not like the trade-offs.

Spell Warrior focuses on counterspelling and can grant allies enchantment bonuses to their weapons with a raging song use. I like the capstone for this one: a successful counterspell deals damage to the opponent that's not subject to energy resistance or damage reduction.

Totemic Skald gets a totem and wild shape related to the totem. Nothing that exciting there unless the theme appeals.

Maybe things will look different during play, but the base class and the spell warrior archetype seem like the best choices.


Spell Warrior seems like a less melee focused version of the Arcane Duelist. Would that be accurate?

I don't mean to be a pain with all the questions, thanks.

Now what about Bloodrager Archetypes.
Is there something that is similar to Armored Hulk out there?


Major_Blackhart wrote:

Spell Warrior seems like a less melee focused version of the Arcane Duelist. Would that be accurate?

I don't mean to be a pain with all the questions, thanks.

Now what about Bloodrager Archetypes.
Is there something that is similar to Armored Hulk out there?

Skalds are far more geared towards combat than bards, even arcane duelists, so I expect a spellwarrior would really give a duelist hell. This is just speculation, but things look good for skalds (less feat-tax, for starters).

The steelblood bloodrager archetype basically wipes the floor with the armored hulk with the addition of arcane spells and fighter-like armor training. The only things lost are uncanny dodge levels and damage reduction. So bloodline nonsense during bloodrage, heavy armor, almost all the perks of armored hulk, minor spells, and armor training. The hulk might live longer, but the steelblood with have more options.


Friggin awesome. Looks like I found my next character.

Edit: Damage reduction loss isn't a big deal to me. Outside of Invulnerable rager, I've never built a barbarian around it, and actually with Armored Hulk always tried to find a way to get rid of it because as of late I've been taking a look at the Sentinel prestige class and liking what I'm seeing.

Anyway, how well does the Bloodrager seem to Synergize with the other classes? Any good multiclass possibilities on the horizon?
One of the things that's nice is that half-orc Bloodragers can choose Barbarian feats, so they essentially can become heavy hitters with a bunch of feats that keep them alive and their rage going.


My Q is... what about those already PFS banned archetypes? I remember the Steelhound, for example, being already banned... why do you think that is?

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Forgepriest because it focuses on item creation. Primal companion hunter because it lets you make a synthesist if you don't have a companion. Don't remember what the steel bound does.


Major_Blackhart wrote:

Anyway, how well does the Bloodrager seem to Synergize with the other classes? Any good multiclass possibilities on the horizon?

One of the things that's nice is that half-orc Bloodragers can choose Barbarian feats, so they essentially can become heavy hitters with a bunch of feats that keep them alive and their rage going.

Honestly, I wouldn't multiclass simply because of the spell loss and bloodline-during-raging perks. There may be some material in the Golarion-related books coming later this year, but I wouldn't take on another class. There's just too much of a reward for hanging in there.


The weirdest archetype I've learned about till now is the Edlritch Scrapper, what I know so far is that it replaces three sorcerer bloodline powers for martial flexibility, treats Arcane Strike and Combat Casting as combat feats so he can gain them with martial flexibility, oh also he can keep a bloodline power that gets him a natural attack by having the option of gaining it instead of his 3rd level bloodline power. Hmmmm a sorcerer getting up close and personal with their BAB and hit points? Yeah....yes I realize that getting the Dragon Disciple prestige class would help, but what if you didn't pick up levels in Dragon Disciple? I mean unless these natural attacks are treated as touch attacks I really don't see how this scrapper plans to land any hits.


Secret Wizard wrote:
My Q is... what about those already PFS banned archetypes? I remember the Steelhound, for example, being already banned... why do you think that is?
Ross Byers wrote:
Forgepriest because it focuses on item creation. Primal companion hunter because it lets you make a synthesist if you don't have a companion. Don't remember what the steel bound does.

The steel hound gets the amateur gunslinger and gunsmithing feats, so I imagine that's why it was kicked.

Primal companion hunter doesn't take on the companions evolutions unless it's dead. "If a primal companion hunter’s animal companion is
dead, she can apply these evolutions to herself instead of to her animal companion." This could promote some really wacky excuses for "roleplay" in order to suicide an animal companion for a personal dose of awesome; worse than that, the session gets bogged down in player vs. GM debate.


Wolfgang Rolf wrote:
The weirdest archetype I've learned about till now is the Edlritch Scrapper, what I know so far is that it replaces three sorcerer bloodline powers for martial flexibility, treats Arcane Strike and Combat Casting as combat feats so he can gain them with martial flexibility, oh also he can keep a bloodline power that gets him a natural attack by having the option of gaining it instead of his 3rd level bloodline power. Hmmmm a sorcerer getting up close and personal with their BAB and hit points? Yeah....yes I realize that getting the Dragon Disciple prestige class would help, but what if you didn't pick up levels in Dragon Disciple? I mean unless these natural attacks are treated as touch attacks I really don't see how this scrapper plans to land any hits.

Martial flexibility allows access to any combat feat they qualify for and retain it for a minute. That's a big list and I'd use the ability for mobility or concealment/etc. mitigation. It sounds really weak on paper, but I remember losing a high level sorcerer in Rappan Athuk to opportunity attacks...being able to borrow the spring attack tree would've saved his rump.

Don't worry so much about landing hits and much as finding tactical solutions.

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