Ok, so I have seen a lot of people say the hulk is a level 20 barb but I think otherwise...
I would contend that he is actually a high level alchemist with the master chemist prestige class. I say this because:
1) banner is intelligent and the hulk is the product of an experiment. The alchemist is an intelligence based class with the mutegen being an alchemical experiment tested on themselves.
2) Bruce goes into hulk mode unwilling. The master chemist can also be forced into his other form if he is stressed and fails a will save.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Banner doesn't do any of the other alchemist stuff, though. He makes no attempts to further augment his Hulk form that could be considered similar to extracts. There's nothing saying a Barb can't be intelligent, either.
Mutagen is essentially "rage in a bottle" anyways, if that's the only real comparison there is then it doesn't hold up well.
Yeah, the gamma ray thing is probably just an unique/reflavored totem line. Maybe bloodrager to give him pseduo-flight in the form of jumping?
The scientist bit is easy. Don't dump Int and put ranks in Knowledge (Physics). Congrats, you have Bruce Banner.
Yeah, I'm also going to lean in favour of rage power. In pathfinder, rage powers have the capacity to be supernatural/extra-natural in nature (totem-powers, I'm looking at you), and a physical transformation would not be out of the question. The transformation is triggered by anger and rage.
The Hulk, sans Bruce Banner, is a barbarian. He's strong and powered by rage.
But yes, Banner/Hulk is a Jekyll/Hyde model and that resonates as an Alchemist of some kind.
|
Banner doesn't do any of the other alchemist stuff, though. He makes no attempts to further augment his Hulk form that could be considered similar to extracts. There's nothing saying a Barb can't be intelligent, either.
When he's being Banner he often comes up with useful technological gizmos, that in Pathfinder would be best reflavored as Alchemist Extracts, IMO.
Mutagen is essentially "rage in a bottle" anyways, if that's the only real comparison there is then it doesn't hold up well.
Master Chymist is perfect for the Hulk. Indeed, he basically requires it to look different and have a different Alignment when transformed (both of which are true and necessary).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Okay, before we start arguing about alignment or mental stat changes: Which version of Hulk are we using?
Red Hulk. All the way.
Well if.want to go to the whole rage thing, there is the Ragechemist.
The other big thing that is compelling that the hulk is an alchemist is that the barn is a full BAB warrior who is still a capable warrior when mot raging. Banner is very obviously not a fighter when not raging...
Oh, and teh Master Chemist specifically calls out that its "other half" has a completely different temperment, alignment, thought process, and even appearance from the original form.
I would say Banner is an alchemist and the Hulk is a frenzied berserker.
They have the 3.5 flaw split personality that triggers whenever Banner's mutagen activates, thus giving him the Hulk personality which has levels in Frenzied Berserker, a 3.5 barbarian prestige class that was nigh unkillable but had a chance to go berserk and attack everything nearby.
Also the Hulk's jumping seems to scale with strength which makes him more of a 3.5 character back when jump was based off strength.
This was my hulk build for a gestalt game, the GM decided after to make the Hulk and NMP character so I built Blade. But with a few simple changes we came up with this. All we realy changed was how fast he could shift or call the eidolon.
|
This was my hulk build for a gestalt game, the GM decided after to make the Hulk and NMP character so I built Blade. But with a few simple changes we came up with this. All we realy changed was how fast he could shift or call the eidolon.were you going to post that build? I'd love to look at it. I'm guessing you used the synthesist to overlay the "Hulk" over Banner
Click his name, the build is under the profile of the character.
This was my hulk build for a gestalt game, the GM decided after to make the Hulk and NMP character so I built Blade. But with a few simple changes we came up with this. All we realy changed was how fast he could shift or call the eidolon.were you going to post that build? I'd love to look at it. I'm guessing you used the synthesist to overlay the "Hulk" over Banner
The problem with the Summoner route is that:
1) Bruce Banner is NOT charismatic... at all... He is THE cliche nerd. Summoners are obviously keyed off Cha.
2) Bruce Banner is NOT a user of magic (and we know magic exists in the Marvel universe to some extent). He is a scientist. The alchemist is the closest thing to a scientist in PF.
3) Bruce Banner can be forcefully changed into the Hulk. The Synthesist Summoner cannot be forcefully summoned. The Master Chymist though can be forced to change when put under duress (i.e. getting angry).
Well if.want to go to the whole rage thing, there is the Ragechemist.
I haven't followed the Hulk comics much, but was there really a time that some people threw rocks at Hulk for half a minute and that induced him into a coma for over an hour?
The Hulk is best represented by any random barbarian with Improved Unarmed Strike and Profession (chemist).
That covers both aspects without introducing a bunch of things neither has (ie. Alchemist levels). Note: what Banner did is permanent... he doesn't chug a mutagen or anything each time he greens-out. He is effectively done what chemistry he was doing and is now just a normal dude on the run who 'roids out periodically when under stress. So... yeah, barbarian.
The Hulk is best represented by any random barbarian with Improved Unarmed Strike and Profession (chemist).
That covers both aspects without introducing a bunch of things neither has (ie. Alchemist levels). Note: what Banner did is permanent... he doesn't chug a mutagen or anything each time he greens-out. He is effectively done what chemistry he was doing and is now just a normal dude on the run who 'roids out periodically when under stress. So... yeah, barbarian.
Master Chymist...
The Master Chymist no longer needs his Mutagen. He is Dr. Jykal/Mr. HYde.
Additionally, as I mentioned, when not "hulking-out" he is not super fast (Barb's increased movement speed), very good in combat (full BAB), super hardy (D12 HD), resistant to damage (DR X/-)...
He is an intellectual (the Alchemist when not roiding out) and uses science and knowledge as his tools (6+Int skills and having a lot of Int based skills as class skills)
Also, the Master Chymist can hulk out because of injury, which is 100% Hulk material. And grow in size. And has a bonus in using simple weapons (like bashing someone with a rock). I just don't see Barbarian because the Barbarian is always on. He's always a skilled fighter and very hardy. Alchemists turn on with their abilities.
And I would probably give the Hulk a few mythic tiers, too. He really outshoots typical class progression.
Hulk am Commoner!!
|
|
Actually, depending on which hulk, the hulk could move at super human rates, breaking sound barriers and such, far beyond what a barbarian could do.
The hulk is indestructible, literally described in canon at one point as "as strong as he needs to be."
DR does not always have to be just resistance to damage, in the very description it lists healing back as fast as you're damaged, something the hulk does in fact do. (In the first line in fact)
Uh...his point was that Barbarians have those all the time, but Dr. Banner doesn't have them when he's not being the Hulk. And thus doesn't make a good Barbarian.
For what it's worth, a barbarian can't use rage powers unless he rages. Rage powers such as "ground breaker" which can cause difficult terrain up to a 20ft radius by striking the ground.
Just because the class has a few flaws doesn't mean the class has nothing to do with Hulk. Whether you are a 20 alchemist or barbarian, you could still slaughter armies in melee combat. Not something I'd imagine Bruce doing.
I think barbarian with mythic tiers is a perfect fit, really
I've always felt he's an Alchemist/Barbarian/Master Chymist. Which is actually an excellent build for getting your str as high as possible. There, problem solved.
Gestalt!
For what it's worth, a barbarian can't use rage powers unless he rages. Rage powers such as "ground breaker" which can cause difficult terrain up to a 20ft radius by striking the ground.
Just because the class has a few flaws doesn't mean the class has nothing to do with Hulk. Whether you are a 20 alchemist or barbarian, you could still slaughter armies in melee combat. Not something I'd imagine Bruce doing.
I think barbarian with mythic tiers is a perfect fit, really
Except being a level 20 barb would mean that Dr.Banner would be as good in melee as captain America or any other full martial.
Additionally, the barb doesn't answer the question of Bruce being forced to change. The master chemist can actually be forced to change...
Let's not even bring up the fact that Stan Lee himself said that the hulk is his take of Dr.Jekyll/Mr.Hyde which the master chemist is based off of...
For what it's worth, a barbarian can't use rage powers unless he rages. Rage powers such as "ground breaker" which can cause difficult terrain up to a 20ft radius by striking the ground.
Just because the class has a few flaws doesn't mean the class has nothing to do with Hulk. Whether you are a 20 alchemist or barbarian, you could still slaughter armies in melee combat. Not something I'd imagine Bruce doing.
I think barbarian with mythic tiers is a perfect fit, really
Except being a level 20 barb would mean that Dr.Banner would be as good in melee as captain America or any other full martial.
Additionally, the barb doesn't answer the question of Bruce being forced to change. The master chemist can actually be forced to change...
Let's not even bring up the fact that Stan Lee himself said that the hulk is his take of Dr.Jekyll/Mr.Hyde which the master chemist is based off of...
I'm not sure how you figure that captain america is as good as a 20th level barbarian. A 20th level alchemist could still kill an army of thousands with just his melee weapon without the help of his abilities.
You can always roleplay being forced to transform, because not every little detail needs to be backed up by mechanics. I don't know why it would make more sense for Bruce in his base form to be able to destroy giant monsters on his own in melee combat as opposed to looking over the fact that you can't be forcefully transformed into the hulk. Just because the alchemist isn't a martial class doesn't mean that it doesn't have a 15 base with d8 health.
Now if you want to represent Bruce on his own, he needs to be low level.
As for the hulk, he is a high level barbarian. Throwing in mythic is a perfect match. Maybe you can even give him a mythic weakness, at your GM's discretion, to force you to rage at times.
Ok how about you tell me why the hulk is a barb? Other than the rage mechanic what other reason makes sense that the hulk is not an alchemist...
I have gave.multiple reasons for why the hulk is an alchemist. So far the only evidence people have for the barb is rage...
I actually evidenced the fluff for damage reduction which says it also includes fast regeneration powers, something hulk lore says he is supposed to have.Ok how about you tell me why the hulk is a barb? Other than the rage mechanic what other reason makes sense that the hulk is not an alchemist...
I have gave.multiple reasons for why the hulk is an alchemist. So far the only evidence people have for the barb is rage...
Guess what the alchemist has? He can actually fast heal himself without using extracts...
The DR x/- all the time makes little sense.
Additionally, Dr.Banner is an intellectual. He is a scientist. The closest thing to that is the Achemist. The barb is anything but...
In top of that, when banner changes, he looks nothing like he used to. The master chemist specifically stated that when the alchemist changes, he actually looks completely different from he original appearance, even do far as to look like a different race. The barbarian doesn't grow...doesn't change appearance...