| Ishpumalibu |
So, i had another problem come up, i have a pc who wants to fight with multiple weapons and use multiweapon fighting, without having multiple arms. Something like main hand weapon. Spiked shield, spiked armor, and spiked gauntlet or something. Is this possible? I saw the spiked destroyer feat, that looks like a step in the right direction. He's wanting to play a barbarian/fighter.
| Darksol the Painbringer |
If he's going to be using multiple weapons, he will have difficulty maintaining all 3 of them at a reliable rate.
That being said, I believe those 3 "weapons" would all fall under the Close Weapon Group for Weapon Training purposes, so Fighter would have an easier time with it. If you come across other classes who get similar Weapon Training, those are also great choices.
Of course, missing out on cutting spells off, hitting the casters so they die faster, and a Pounce ability, all while raging, really hurts your versatility in combat.
Switch-hitting would be most effective for using multiple kinds of weapons in one combat, so Gloves of Storing are going to be mandatory most likely, and later down the road, Gauntlets of the Weapon Master, since you can swap between different weapons for each iterative attack.
Problems you'll run into:
-3 different weapons runs risks of complicating Weapon Focus/Specialization feat choices.
-TWF and its issues, such as high feat pre-reqs, great amount of feat consumption, etc.
-Keeping up with 3 weapons without reducing your defenses.
Some solutions:
-Rangers get Bonus Feats, which allow them to select feats from a list (TWF falls under such) without having to deal with pre-requisites, and doesn't count toward the amount of regular feats you get as you level.
-Human Fighters can take Martial Versatility at 4th level, allowing them to apply, say, Weapon Focus (Shield) to all Close weapon groups, including Spiked Gauntlets and Armor Spikes. Martial Mastery at 16th level applies to all of them.
-Sticking to simply the Big 6, using your party crafter to your advantage (if you have one) and upgrading your weapons evenly may help deal with the heavy costs of maintaining 3 different weapons. You'll be a bit behind the curve, but still be strong enough to stay in the fight and accomplish a little something here and there.
| Darksol the Painbringer |
Quickdraw?
Quick Draw is only useful for the first round of combat, and for throwing builds. If he wants to be using a Shield, Spiked Gauntlet, and Armor Spikes for attacks, Quick Draw feat wouldn't help him too much. Besides, he already would have his Shield out, and Spiked Gauntlets and Armor Spikes are worn, so they're already on and equipped to make attacks while out walking around and such.
Some bigger problems he'll run into for using a Spiked Gauntlet for attacks is that its damage dice is pretty crappy. Same can be said for Armor Spikes; Spiked Shields are useful, but also very feat intensive, as is trying to switch-hit or use TWF to make several attacks all at once. Sure, static bonuses are the way to go, though to be quite honest, trying to balance all of the pre-reqs while trying to work out Shield and Spiked Gauntlet and Armor Spikes will all be very difficult to get online and be good early. Trying to be a Two-Shield Martial is very taxing as it is, since you have to balance Strength being strong enough while also making sure you have the feats (and the pre-reqs) to make it powerful. At 20 point buy and for the first 10 levels, you're going to be using both a Heavy Shield and a Light Shield for damage until you get Shield Master at 11th, meaning you can go Dual Heavy Shield goodness.
Honestly, by the time it may seem plausible for him to juggle between 3 different weapons for attacks (which is technically impossible according to TWF FAQs), he will probably be overshadowed by his other party members...
EvilPaladin
|
A Humaniod can technically be capable of making attacks with 7 different weapons at once. Use 2 light or 1h weapons, 2 Boot Blades, Armor Spikes, 1 Barbazu Beard, and 1 Dwarven Boulder Helmet. Though I don't believe you can actually TWF with all of these, because Two-Weapon Fighting[the action, not the feat], says you get 1 extra attack each round, not multiple.
| Samasboy1 |
Is he trying to get extra attacks from using all these weapons, or just more a style of fighting?
ex. A Barbarian 20 has 4 attacks from BAB, up to 3 from TWF, and 1 from Haste.
So if he wanted to do something like designate each attack with a different weapon without actually increasing his number of attacks, I think that would be fine as a house rule.
20 BAB + 1 Haste -2 TWF = +19 to attack (before Str, Magic, Feats, etc)
so +19 Mace/+19 Spiked Shield/+19 Spiked Gauntlet/+14 Armor Spikes/+14 Boulder helmet/+9 Blade Boot A/+9 Blade Boot B/+4 Barbazu Beard
He attacked with 8 weapons (assuming you can hold a mace in a spike gauntlet and attack with both), but gained no extra attacks over the regular TWF and Haste attacks.
This would be highly disadvantageous if allowed, since he would need all these weapons enchanted and weapon specific feats would only apply to one of them.
| Scott Wilhelm |
Improved and Greater 2 weapon give you extra attacks.
There is the Dancing Enchantment, but that is very expensive.
I think there is a Dancing-equivalent enchantment for shields, Animated, I think.
The Crown of Swords lets you create Spiritual swords and send them after opponents.
Remember that a shield is a weapon unto itself, and it might make more sense to just shield bash rather than use a buckler and dirk.
You can use Spiked Destroyer in conjunction with Shield Slam.
Unarmed Strikes count as both natural and manufactured weapons.
I'm pretty sure you can use 2 weapon in conjunction with your natural weapon. You could shield bash as your primary attack and bite as your secondary. I think you could use an Unarmed Strike as your primary attack and make your 2 claw attacks as your secondary.
blackbloodtroll
|
Have you considered the Brawler?
You can Brawler's Flurry with any weapon in the Close Fighter Weapon Group.
This includes the bayonet, brass knuckles, cestus, dan bong, emei piercer, fighting fan, gauntlet, heavy shield, iron brush, katar, light shield, madu, mere club, punching dagger, rope gauntlet, sap, scizore, spiked armor, spiked gauntlet, spiked shield, tekko-kagi, tonfa, unarmed strike, wooden stake, and wushu dart.
| Gregory Connolly |
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I think there is a backdoor into the style he wants, but it exploits some bad wording and I would only even think about it after the GM said it was OK. Alchemist/Barbarian is how it is done. 2 levels of Alchemist grant the discovery Vestigial Arm which will give you 3 arms and qualify you for Multiweapon Fighting even though the 3rd arm specifically doesn't grant you another attack. This is where everything is worded very poorly. If you are the GM you can look at this interaction and rule just about any way you want. So you can allow the player to hold a potion in the 3rd arm and use a shield, spiked gauntlet and armor spikes all at -2 to make 3 attacks plus whatever iteratives. I certainly wouldn't do this in PFS or with strangers, but it seems to be enough of a cost to let the player have what they want. As a bonus they now can drink a strength mutagen on top of rage for some good damage.
| Kolokotroni |
Based on what we've gotten from the devs, the intent of the rules is explicately to prevent this. You are not intended to be able to use more then 2hands worth of weapons at a time (in a given round). The idea being there is a rough equivalence (subject to all sorts of modifiers) between a 2handed weapon and 2 light weapons. If additional weapons are allowed the combination either needs to be penalized further (making it hard to hit) or will exceed this rough equivalence.
In practics ofcourse it always depends on the specifics. If he is going to use the kinds of weapons you mentioned he isnt going to be blowing away and damage records, but he may have issues in other areas.
If the game goes to high levels the player will struggle to keep all his weapons up to snuff without vastly exceeding his wealth by level guidelines.
You could house it, but id recommend looking at a way to give the feeling of attacking with all these weapons without actually granting more attacks then two weapon fighting would allow.
For instance the talented monk by rogue genius games (a 3rd party product) offers the option to flurry with any weapon group the monk chooses. So at 1st level he only makes 2 attacks per turn, but at higher levels, he can attack with all 3 or more weapons by splitting them between the attack he gets.
The talented monk also allows all the weapons in the group the monk selects to scale like the monks unarmed damage normally does. This would make such a style much more feasible. There is also an option to be an armored monk, so he could still use armor spikes if thats his preference.
| Samasboy1 |
Based on what we've gotten from the devs, the intent of the rules is explicitly to prevent this. You are not intended to be able to use more then 2hands worth of weapons at a time (in a given round). The idea being there is a rough equivalence (subject to all sorts of modifiers) between a 2handed weapon and 2 light weapons. If additional weapons are allowed the combination either needs to be penalized further (making it hard to hit) or will exceed this rough equivalence.
In practice of course it always depends on the specifics. If he is going to use the kinds of weapons you mentioned he isnt going to be blowing away and damage records, but he may have issues in other areas.
If the game goes to high levels the player will struggle to keep all his weapons up to snuff without vastly exceeding his wealth by level guidelines.
You could house it, but id recommend looking at a way to give the feeling of attacking with all these weapons without actually granting more attacks then two weapon fighting would allow.
Well, that's the thing. Attacking with more weapons doesn't have to give you more attacks.
Check out this FAQ.
If you have 4 attacks from BAB, and you attack one each with 4 weapons, you didn't make any "extra" attacks, so there is no penalty involved.