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For any magical quality, such as adaptive, to be placed on a weapon, the weapon must first be enchanted to +1. The composite bow itself could initially have a +0 strength modifier. It's possible that you could both be right and are talking about two different pluses.
Considering the requirement is simply "This ability can only be placed on composite bows.", you don't need it to have a strength rating.
I'm with Howie, though. It seems like maybe there's a miscommunication since the bow definitely has to be a +1 weapon before any enchentment is placed on it.
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I'm with Howie. A +1 composite (+0 Str) longbow can have adaptive added to it. You could not add adaptive to a masterwork composite (+0 Str) longbow or a composite (+0 Str) longbow. It must have a +1 enhancement bonus first, but the composite bonus can be +0.
My two cents. You could apply adaptive to a +1 composite (+0 STR) but would get no benefit by RAI. It appears intended to allow you to use a high strength bow at a lower strength. Of course RAW it would work as he suggests, but that just makes it your call. Imo.
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I'm talking about the composite ability to add your strength modifier to damage, not the magical quality of +1.
In that case, he's right. It could me a +0 strength composite bow. A +0 meets the requirement, that it be a composite bow. If a +1 were required, the requirement would state that.
If it helps, a +0 strength composite bow isn't just a non-composite bow. It's build differently. It has layers of materials rather than being merely a length of shaped wood. It has a longer range than a regular bow. It is built to a specific strength rating, which happens to be +0.
If that doesn't satisfy, perhaps you can give us your rationale so that we can see why you're thinking the bow must have a +1 strength rating.
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You can have a +0 composite longbow, in fact the example strength modifier to use one at all is +0 modifier. You can throw adaptive on it provided its a +1, and this matches your strength, it doesn't just go to lower strengths.
So in short the player is right.... for the price of a +2 weapon.
Adaptive isn't a +1 enchantment, it cost a flat 1000 gold. Its actually somewhat nifty for that backup ranged weapon, especially for a class that changes strength often, like a barbarian or alchemist.
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My two cents. You could apply adaptive to a +1 composite (+0 STR) but would get no benefit by RAI. It appears intended to allow you to use a high strength bow at a lower strength. Of course RAW it would work as he suggests, but that just makes it your call. Imo.
This is just one use. It also allows a bow to be used at a higher strength while gaining the benefit of that high strength. It means the bow can be used at full strength when buffed, or that the same bow can be used while gaining strength from leveling up. It effectively eliminates the requirement to have backup bows, bows for special circumstances, etc, and still gain the full utility.
My two cents. You could apply adaptive to a +1 composite (+0 STR) but would get no benefit by RAI. It appears intended to allow you to use a high strength bow at a lower strength. Of course RAW it would work as he suggests, but that just makes it your call. Imo.This is just one use. It also allows a bow to be used at a higher strength while gaining the benefit of that high strength. It means the bow can be used at full strength when buffed, or that the same bow can be used while gaining strength from leveling up. It effectively eliminates the requirement to have backup bows, bows for special circumstances, etc, and still gain the full utility.
How would I know this? I only have access to the srd atm, but the last sentence seems to imply that it's used to allow you to use it at a lower strength score than the bow is built for. Really it would seem like it's extra text if the intent is to allow it to adjust to strength in both directions. Is this clarified anywhere?
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An adaptive bow responds to the strength of its wielder, acting as a bow with a strength rating equal to its wielder's Strength bonus. The wielder can fire it with a lesser Strength bonus (and cause less damage) if desired.
I believe this clearly means that the bow no longer adheres to anything but your strength, whether that strength be 2 or 22. You get to avoid having to tote around a bunch of various strength-rating bows and never have to worry about eating a -2 to attack for using a bow too strong for you. Nice.
I see what you're both saying, and where you're coming from. But what purpose does the last line serve? The strength rating of the bow becomes your strength rating. According to the first sentence. So how can you have a lower strength rating than that rating? Unless it's modifying the first sentence or the effect as a whole, what's it doing there? Unless it should be on its own line.
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I have a Str of 18 and a +1 adaptive composite (+0 Str) longbow. I can fire it at my full +4 damage. I can also choose to fire it at +0 damage, if I want.
That's what the last line does.
I can't think of an instance where a person would do it (maybe trying to 'pull your punch' so you don't outright kill someone?), but it means you can treat the bow as if it had a lower strength bonus than you.
So if you have 18 strength, you can choose to fire it as if you had 14 strength instead, dealing only +2 strength damage instead of +4.
Edit: What Chemlak said. :P
It means that any user of an adaptive bow can choose to have their bow act as a composite longbow of less than their strength bonus. A 22 STR fighter who wants to do less damage for whatever reason (trying to take the foe alive, perhaps) can choose to have a +3 STR or a +1 STR bow instead.
Edit: two ninjas? Now that is just unfair.
Ah, that makes sense, but just feels worded poorly. Thank you for clarifying.
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The last line of Adaptive is referring to this line of the composite longbow description:-
If your Strength bonus is less than the strength rating of the composite bow, you can't effectively use it, so you take a –2 penalty on attacks with it.
It's making clear that you don't suffer the -2 attack penalty if your Str bonus is less than that of the (pre-Adaptive) bow.
Also, if you apply magic to yourself (i.e. Enlarge Person, Bull's Strength, etc.), your damage won't be limited by the strength rating of your bow ... or if you have STR drain, you won't suffer the -2 penalty to attack.
Your player is correct. Its the point of adaptive.
Mind you, many characters start with a strength score until they can afford the 3.4 grand for an adaptive comp. longbow
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In one way, it's pointless enchanting a bow with a Str rating of higher than +0, because you're just throwing money away; 100gp/+1.
On the other hand, they start off wanting a bow with a Str rating of +6, and can't afford 3,400gp but can afford 1,000gp. This is exactly the situation I'm in right now in Kingmaker.
Or you could have found a bow which is highly enchanted and you really want to keep it, but it's the wrong Str for you, or your Str bonus changes frequently due to various buffs. At that point you can pay 1,000gp to get Adaptive laid upon it.
But if you have the money to design one from scratch, start with a mwk Str +0 bow for 400gp, spend 3,000 to make it +1 Adaptive, and go on from there.
If the +0 thing bothers you, remember that it isn't 'nothing', it's just made with a draw weight useable by a person with 10 Strength.
100gp per + really isn't that expensive by the time one can afford a +1 Adaptive Bow, considering it allows you to retain the bonus damage even during a dispel of the bow (or in antimagic, if your campaigns have that crop up from time to time.)
Just curious, how do you still benefit from your magic bow in an antimagic field?
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Strength bonus to damage, not magic bonus to damage.
The statement is made presuming you have a higher strength (which with Malachai's reasoning, regardless of a high STR, you wouldn't need to bother).
Mostly it's pointing out that there may well be a reason for a high STR character to have a high rating even with the Adaptive quality (though few campaigns I've played in play around with antimagic/dispel all that much, save from Beholders).
Strength bonus to damage, not magic bonus to damage.
The statement is made presuming you have a higher strength (which with Malachai's reasoning, regardless of a high STR, you wouldn't need to bother).
Mostly it's pointing out that there may well be a reason for a high STR character to have a high rating even with the Adaptive quality (though few campaigns I've played in play around with antimagic/dispel all that much, save from Beholders).
Ah, understood.
Cool. :)
There are no Beholders in Pathfinder.
Did I say I played with Beholders in Pathfinder? I said "campaigns". System neutral term. In fact, I used Beholders for exactly that reason. :)
We're cool. My point in replying was to ensure that my (apparently oblique) original point in using them as an example was clarified.
(I also pick posting tips up from the school of TOZ, on occasion, it seems.)
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If you're rich you can get a bow made for a Str bonus of +20 (ignoring the craft DC, of course, since you buy it already made) and make it Adaptive anyway, just in case the magic is supressed somehow.
But my Kingmaker PC right now has 2,400gp and change, can't afford the 3,400gp for a Str +0 Adaptive bow so a Str +6 Adaptive bow isn't an option. So I spend 1,000gp for a mwk Str +6 bow, and maybe later make it +1 and maybe after that make it Adaptive if my Str bonus changes.
Pathfinder is backwards compatible, feel free to let loose with all your 3.5 goodies, whether they be monsters, classes, prestige classes, races, or feats. (Tread carefully with spells, I'm far more lax with Ranger/Paladin/Assassin/Bard spells than the other classes.)
Not really.
While based on 3.5 many things work completely differently. All the combat maneuvers, turn undead, and SR are just a few that need to be completely converted. PRCs are another as skills are factored differently.
SR in 3.5 is based on hit dice, SR in PF is based on CR. You have to recalculate the SR from anything published in a 3.5 source.
Are you sure that your player didn't mean the longbow's strength rating could be +0?
If you're rich you can get a bow made for a Str bonus of +20 (ignoring the craft DC, of course, since you buy it already made) and make it Adaptive anyway, just in case the magic is supressed somehow.
Then you'll take the -2 penalty for using a bow too strong for you. Better to set the default Str bonus too weak - you'll reduce your damage, but not your attack roll.
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If you're rich you can get a bow made for a Str bonus of +20 (ignoring the craft DC, of course, since you buy it already made) and make it Adaptive anyway, just in case the magic is supressed somehow.Then you'll take the -2 penalty for using a bow too strong for you. Better to set the default Str bonus too weak - you'll reduce your damage, but not your attack roll.
You'd set the bonus too weak at levels where you have a 50/50ish chance to hit, but at higher levels you wouldn't care so much about -2 to hit.
The best option is to have a Str rating equal to the highest Str you expect that PC to attain, including buffs.