Circlet of Persuasion - what rolls does it affect?


Rules Questions


The item description (Core Rulebook, p. 506) reads: "This silver headband grants a +3 competence bonus on the wearer's Charisma-based checks".
Which checks are affected by the circlet and which aren't? I guess the skill checks are affected. How about the checks to destroy undead? The checks made by sorcerers, whose spells are Charisma-based?

Scarab Sages

If something says "roll a d20 and add your charisma modifier" then you add +3. Any charisma related skills, or if you need a raw charisma roll (which is rare.). Being a spellcaster isn't a 'check,' so that crown doesn't help you there. Spell dcs aren't checks, and neither are things that say, like "number of times per day equal to your charisma +3." That being said, it can help with some spells, like the one where you make an intimidate check and people burtst into flames. Dunno if it works with glibness though, If the bonuses are the same they don't stack.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

OK, a concentration check is a check, right? So the circlet grants a sorcerer +3 on all concentration checks?

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Ector777 wrote:
OK, a concentration check is a check, right? So the circlet grants a sorcerer +3 on all concentration checks?

There is a dev (SKR) iirc saying similar, and referencing Initiative when you have Cha to Init.

Scarab Sages

Huh, I didn't think or that, but yes. According to RAW A sorcerer, bard, paladin, oracle, or summoner wearing the crown nets THEM (not any other classes) a +3 on concentration checks.

Little wonky, and probably not what the writers intended, but it works.


Thanks guys, my 6-level cleric is going to craft this powerful circlet soon for our sorcerer :)


Roll your save DC for spell alternete rule, does whould count as well for those class?
( sorry for bad translation)


It counts (according to the developers and there are past threads covering this) when your check is primarily based on CHA. It does not count when paladins add in their CHA to saves (because that's not a check primarily based on CHA) or when they smite and add their CHA to attacks (because also not primarily based on CHA).

But concentration checks and turn undead checks are acceptable.

Scarab Sages

Arlow wrote:

Roll your save DC for spell alternete rule, does whould count as well for those class?

( sorry for bad translation)

I don't think so. Spell DCs are not 'checks.' They are not trying to beat a certain condition. They are trying to get OTHER people to beat your condidtion. Plus it unfairly swings things in the favor of that alternate rule


Damn! My gm was a cheater!
Thx for the tip.


TyrKnight wrote:

It counts (according to the developers and there are past threads covering this) when your check is primarily based on CHA. It does not count when paladins add in their CHA to saves (because that's not a check primarily based on CHA) or when they smite and add their CHA to attacks (because also not primarily based on CHA).

But concentration checks and turn undead checks are acceptable.

Paladins don't add their Cha to saves.

They add a bonus equal to their CHA.

Subtle difference, but an extremely important one in some cases.

For example... Some oracle revelations allow you to base your reflex save off cha instead of dex, that would stack with the bonus a paladin gets which is equal to his cha.

And, since I've mentioned it... for those oracles, the circlet could add +3 to their reflex.


Actually, for those oracles Remy, those oracles can't. That's a saving throw. Not a check. Just as attack rolls are not checks. While you are checking to see if you succeed on that save, it's not actually a check.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Lathiira wrote:
Actually, for those oracles Remy, those oracles can't. That's a saving throw. Not a check. Just as attack rolls are not checks. While you are checking to see if you succeed on that save, it's not actually a check.
Quote:

Check

A check is a d20 roll which may or may not be modified by another value. The most common types are attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks and saving throws.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

So, check......mate? :D

Silver Crusade

A stat modifying a roll doesn't make it an ability check.

Attack rolls are based on Base Attack Bonus, which is only a product of class levels/hit dice. An attack roll is not a Str check or a Dex check.

Saving throws are based on base save bonuses from class levels/hit dice. A Fort save is not a Con check, a Ref save is not a Dex check, a Will save is not a Wis check.

Some words mean different things in different contexts in the game, 'level' being the most obvious. 'Check' can be used to mean 'roll a d20, add stuff, compare total to DC', but it has a more specific meaning as well: those d20 rolls which are called a 'check'. A skill check, ability check, caster level check, these are all checks, and only the first two could be Cha checks.

Attack rolls are not attack 'checks'. Saving throws are not save 'checks'. One way to tell is if the roll auto makes/fails on a nat 20/1 then it's not a check. Another way to tell is that if you can take 10/20, then it's an ability check. Skill checks are modified ability checks.

Caster level checks are 'checks', but are not 'ability checks', as they are based on caster level which is based on class level/hit dice.

Shaken wrote:
A shaken character takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks and ability checks.

These are all different things. All skill checks are also ability checks, but not all ability checks are skill checks.

Initiative checks are Dex checks. Turn Undead checks are Cha checks.


The PRD disagrees with you

Sovereign Court

Yeah, attack rolls are names as the very first example of the most important type of checks.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ability checks are different from skill checks, but climb checks and strength checks are both strength-based checks.

Silver Crusade

Ascalaphus wrote:
Yeah, attack rolls are names as the very first example of the most important type of checks.

Addressed within my post.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Circlet of Persuasion - what rolls does it affect? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions