I just want to check that I have the math right on this because it seems a little broken Level 1.
Ok so we're dealing with a Barbarian, 16 Str, wielding a Longsword with both his hands in rage using power attack.
Level 1 Barbarian
-----------------
To hit: +5. | +1(BAB), +3(STR), +2(RAGE), -1(PA)
DMG: 1d8+9
+3(STR)
+2(RAGE)
+1(1.5x 3 STR = 4.5, so +4 STR total(One handed Weapon with both hands.))
+3(PA(+2 with +50% for holding one handed weapon with both hands))
From others posts that I've read this seems to be right but at the same time it's too ridiculous to believe. Can anyone confirm or deny this math?
EDIT 1: Thank you for the quick responses. Quick and helpful feedback. Nice community.
There is a mistake, but it makes it worse: the +2 dmg from rage is +3, as it's a str bonus, thus multiplied with 1.5 when wielding two-handed.
What leads you to believe it is in error?
Imagine substituting a base 20 Strength and a Greatsword.
And yeah, low-level twohand wielders deal some crazy damage.
Well the fact that he can one shot almost any monster in a balanced level 1 encounter with a great hit bonus of +5 on top of having potentially the most HP possible makes him the best level 1 character. Maybe I was hoping it wouldn't be true.
To hit is correct.
Damage is not correct.
It is:
DMG 1d8+10
+5(Str with Rage: 20STR = 16STR+4Rage = 3Str mod + 2Str mod from Rage)
+2(Using two hands with 20Str)
+3(PA)
It's not broken at all, since it's only in Rage. And it's what a Barbairan do.
Consider a two-handed weapon instead of two-handing a one-handed weapon, turning that 1d8 to a 2d6 with a great sword.
Also, having STR at 18 instead of 16 would get you 2d6+12
+6(Str with Rage)
+3(Using two hands with 22STR)
+3(PA)
Any class can be optimal at damage. You can build a spellcaster that casts 5d4+5 dmg Burning Hands at 1st level, too. But what's that Barbarian's Diplomacy check? What's that Wizard's Climb skill?
If you're worried solely about damage output, feel free to adjust your encounters to accommodate, or toss in some more varied challenges.
How can you bring a Wizard's Burning Hands to that at level 1?
1st level PFS Evocation Specialist (Human)
+2 from Spell Specialization
+1 from Varisian Tattoo
+1 from Precocious Spellcaster
Edit: added Human
Vendev wrote: How can you bring a Wizard's Burning Hands to that at level 1? Be a Human Orc/Dragon Crossblooded Sorcerer
Spell Focus
Spell Specialisation (+2CL with favourite spell)
Trait: Gifted Adept (+1CL, magic), Precocious Spellcaster (+1CL, regional)
5d4+10 at level 1 isn't bad.
Nefreet wrote: 1st level PFS Evocation Specialist
+2 from Spell Specialization
+1 from Varisian Tattoo
+1 from Precocious Spellcaster
How do you get the +5?
Cap. Darling wrote: Nefreet wrote: 1st level PFS Evocation Specialist
+2 from Spell Specialization
+1 from Varisian Tattoo
+1 from Precocious Spellcaster
How do you get the +5? The wizard has to wait to take a level of crossblooded sorcerer to add that.
Cap. Darling wrote: Nefreet wrote: 1st level PFS Evocation Specialist
+2 from Spell Specialization
+1 from Varisian Tattoo
+1 from Precocious Spellcaster
How do you get the +5? Level 1 Wizard has a base CL of 1?
EDIT: Sorry, missunderstood your question.
I was under the impression that trait bonus doesnt stack?
Or do they have to be explicitily written "+1 trait bonus to caster level" for that rule to be valid?
@Topic
When a player focuses too much on damage output, try to balance the encounters on another way, requiring reflex and will saves, use traps, use climb/acrobatics checks, use monsters that can disarm or trip, etc
With 2d6+12 Barbarians and 5d4+1 Wizards how does 1d6+1d6 with 1d6+1d6 Rogues make it? Barbarians have such natural great hit chance and Burning hands lands every time with just a Reflex save for half damage, meanwhile the the rogue has to ambush or flank with another player for half of his damage on top of having to make two low hit bonus swings to deal the other half all of which falls shorter than the other two classes. With a high chance of failure, low situation chance of occurrence, and feat starvation just to wield two-weapons and actually have more than a negative hit, the Rogue seems completely sub-par combat wise.
EDIT: Grammar
Other monster types, e.g., swarms, can mix it up a bit as well.
Vendev wrote: With 2d6+12 Barbarians and 5d4+1 Wizards how does 1d6+1d6 with 1d6+1d6 Rogues make it? Barbarians have such natural great hit chance and Burning hands lands every time with just a Reflex save for half damage, meanwhile the the rogue has to ambush or flank with another player for half of his damage on top of having to make two low hit bonus swings to deal the other half all of which falls shorter than the other two classes. With a high chance of failure, low situation chance of occurrence, and feat starvation just to wield two-weapons and actually have more than a negative hit, the Rogue seems completely sub-par combat wise.
EDIT: Grammar
4 encounters pr day?
But a rogue with a short sword and no bonus to str is not gonna Cut it in battle and that is fine if the others have spend every resource on combat.
Edit: the two exampels with High damage is on the Well built end why pull a TWF rogue in the conversation?
Okay. I guess everything will balance out. Thank you for your responses everybody. This was my first post and the quickness and effectiveness of the forum was surprising. Well done gents and any gentettes
Vendev wrote: With 2d6+12 Barbarians and 5d4+1 Wizards how does 1d6+1d6 with 1d6+1d6 Rogues make it? Barbarians have such natural great hit chance and Burning hands lands every time with just a Reflex save for half damage, meanwhile the the rogue has to ambush or flank with another player for half of his damage on top of having to make two low hit bonus swings to deal the other half all of which falls shorter than the other two classes. With a high chance of failure, low situation chance of occurrence, and feat starvation just to wield two-weapons and actually have more than a negative hit, the Rogue seems completely sub-par combat wise.
EDIT: Grammar
You are absolutely right. The rogue can't equal the damage output of a straight up barbarian. That is because dealing damage is right in the barbarian's wheelhouse. The rogue's specialty is all of those skills and rogue talents. As for the wizard build above it is a one trick pony. There are much more effective things for wizards to be doing with their time. Also big flashy spells tend to draw the kind of attention that gets wizards killed.
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