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So I was thinking . . . If you had your druthers, what armor would you want for each class? This is what I think, but please, tell me what you guys think. Please keep in mind that this is a general list for general builds of the classes and doesn't take into account specific concepts and/or archetypes. Also keep in mind that I am but one man, and if you know of something I've missed, please tell me.
1)Barbarians: Magic Mithral Breastplate.
-Without the fighter's ability to mitigate the downsides of armor, this seems to be the best fit for most barbarians. The mithral both reduces the armor check penalty to 0 (thus allowing for all those barbarian-ey skills like swimming, jumping, climbing trees) and lets the barbarian make full use of their fast movement
2)Bards: Elven Chain (Enchanted). Let's face it, Bards need to cast spells. Luckily, unlike 'normal' mithral chain, Elven chain is non-magical (so it can be enchanted), and acts like light armor "In all respects," including proficiency, allowing for the bardic "can cast spells in light armor without arcane spell failure" thing. Also allows for full movement and running, and only a -2 Armor check penalty
3)Cleric: Magic Mithral Breastplate.
Pretty much the same reasoning as a barbarian. They generally don't need the speed or the ACP skills so much, but why not? Alternatively, Adamentine breastplate to reduce all physical damage by 2.
4)Druid: Red Dragon Scale Breastplate of Fire Resistance:
Okay, Druids are proficient in medium armor, but can only don non-metal armor. Solution? Red Dragon breastplate. Yes, it does reduce their ACP and speed, but most druids can move if they REALLY want to by shapeshifting. This is great for a caster druid. And hey, Fire seems to be the most common energy type by far, so the super cheap bit of enchanting it to be fire resistant is just icing on the cake.
Fighter: Enchanted Adamantine O-Yori Great armor
I somehow wonder how Golarian gets all their adamantine, seeing as so much of it finds its way into full-plate suits, but this seems to be the epitome of heavy armor. DR 3/- can add up after a while, and the fact that Fighters can mitigate the downsides of armor through armor mastery means you can be running around with this thing at full move speed and low ACP. Plus, you have a max dex bonus of +3, for when your mage casts mass cat's grace or whatever.
Monk: Monk's robe? eeeeeh?
Paladin: Lacking a way to reduce ACP or mitigate the speed problem, but still needing the armor of heavy armor, the Paladin is kinda hard to come up with. I'm tempted to say Adamantine O-yori Great armor of the champion and call it a day, but tell me what you guys think.
Ranger: Defiant Mithral Breastplate
Really, all the arguments for the cleric and barbarian are in play here. If this is a campaign where you continually fight your favored enemy, then defiant just makes you all the better at fighting that favored enemy (especially if you choose some large category, like 'undead.')
Rogue: Mithral Chain Shirt of Shadows
Nothing much to say here. No Armor check penalties, light armor, +5 to stealth . . . really, do you need anymore?
Sorc/Wizard: Adamantine Haramaki
Okay, so +1 to Armor with 0 ACP and 0 Acane spell failure chance? Yes please! I know it doesn't stack with mage armor, but it provides you with DR 1/-, and if you get the +4, or +5 version, then it's better than mage armor (and it's just as good at +3) Plus you can further enchant it with fortification or some skill bonus to give you some great stuff. And you can sleep in it! Who says sorcerers and wizards don't wear armor?!
Anything other than full arcane casters and most monks builds can use a mithral breatplate with little to no problem as long as they take one trait: armor expert.
That reduces armor check penalty by 1. Since mithral reduces it by 3, that means ACP is 0. Since, as far as I am aware, the only penalty for nonproficient armor use is applying ACP to your attack rolls...well... there you go.
And since "mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations", it is perfectly fine for bards, magi, and any monks that lack flurry or the sohei. And classes like alchemist and rogue just plain love it as well.
...also, I might as well say it: theoretically, a witch might be fine, even if you dumped it in nonproficient fullplate. I mean, their hexes are unaffected by armor...so they could possibly serve their typical role well enough even when dealing with all that spell failure. A huge restriction on their options, but it is, in itself, an option.
For the monk, wearing any armor at all nixes his wisdom bonus to AC, so the logical armor bonus granting item for him would be bracers of armor.
Sorcerers, witches, wizards, and other arcane spellcasters who suffer arcane spell failure even in light armor can wear a haramaki plus armored kilt at no penalty except for slowed movement. They will eventually want to replace that combination (with the haramaki up to +5) with bracers of armor +7 or +8.
Sorcerers, witches, wizards, and other arcane spellcasters who suffer arcane spell failure even in light armor can wear a haramaki plus armored kilt at no penalty except for slowed movement. They will eventually want to replace that combination (with the haramaki up to +5) with bracers of armor +7 or +8.
Only if they want more AC. One of the nice things about the haramaki enchants is that it stacks with mage armor, while bracers of armor negate any effects from your armor. So you can use your haramaki to get +6 in armor qualities while using mage armor to get your actual AC. Won't have the best armor, but its money and it will take some time for your bracers of armor or haramaki to catch up with your mage armor anyway.
Mage armor can also be pretty choice for the monk too, at least until he can get his bracers of armor so high. Pearl of power, hand it to an arcane caster, and get your some mage armor!
Mithral Celestial Plate Armor.
Less you be an arcane spellcaster that isn't a magus, then some +5 silken ceremonial armor would do.
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Sorcerers, witches, wizards, and other arcane spellcasters who suffer arcane spell failure even in light armor can wear a haramaki plus armored kilt at no penalty except for slowed movement. They will eventually want to replace that combination (with the haramaki up to +5) with bracers of armor +7 or +8.Only if they want more AC. One of the nice things about the haramaki enchants is that it stacks with mage armor, while bracers of armor negate any effects from your armor. So you can use your haramaki to get +6 in armor qualities while using mage armor to get your actual AC. Won't have the best armor, but its money and it will take some time for your bracers of armor or haramaki to catch up with your mage armor anyway.
Mage armor can also be pretty choice for the monk too, at least until he can get his bracers of armor so high. Pearl of power, hand it to an arcane caster, and get your some mage armor!
The haramaki does not stack with Mage Armor. No armor stacks with mage armor. Either the mage armor spell or the physical armor will apply, not both. The one reason to have mage armor when wearing armor is that mage armor is a force effect, so it works against incorporeal creatures.
The haramaki does not stack with Mage Armor. No armor stacks with mage armor. Either the mage armor spell or the physical armor will apply, not both. The one reason to have mage armor when wearing armor is that mage armor is a force effect, so it works against incorporeal creatures.Sorcerers, witches, wizards, and other arcane spellcasters who suffer arcane spell failure even in light armor can wear a haramaki plus armored kilt at no penalty except for slowed movement. They will eventually want to replace that combination (with the haramaki up to +5) with bracers of armor +7 or +8.Only if they want more AC. One of the nice things about the haramaki enchants is that it stacks with mage armor, while bracers of armor negate any effects from your armor. So you can use your haramaki to get +6 in armor qualities while using mage armor to get your actual AC. Won't have the best armor, but its money and it will take some time for your bracers of armor or haramaki to catch up with your mage armor anyway.
Mage armor can also be pretty choice for the monk too, at least until he can get his bracers of armor so high. Pearl of power, hand it to an arcane caster, and get your some mage armor!
No the armor bonuses don't stack Theconiel, but what MrSin is talking about is that you can get the benefits of enchantments on your armor while having mage armor on you as it does not "turn off" your other armor ala Bracers of Armor.
And let me tell you about some fantastic armor enchantments here.
But no really I can't live without the deathless armor enchantment now... it just does so much.
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The haramaki does not stack with Mage Armor. No armor stacks with mage armor. Either the mage armor spell or the physical armor will apply, not both. The one reason to have mage armor when wearing armor is that mage armor is a force effect, so it works against incorporeal creatures.Sorcerers, witches, wizards, and other arcane spellcasters who suffer arcane spell failure even in light armor can wear a haramaki plus armored kilt at no penalty except for slowed movement. They will eventually want to replace that combination (with the haramaki up to +5) with bracers of armor +7 or +8.Only if they want more AC. One of the nice things about the haramaki enchants is that it stacks with mage armor, while bracers of armor negate any effects from your armor. So you can use your haramaki to get +6 in armor qualities while using mage armor to get your actual AC. Won't have the best armor, but its money and it will take some time for your bracers of armor or haramaki to catch up with your mage armor anyway.
Mage armor can also be pretty choice for the monk too, at least until he can get his bracers of armor so high. Pearl of power, hand it to an arcane caster, and get your some mage armor!
No the armor bonuses don't stack Theconiel, but what MrSin is talking about is that you can get the benefits of enchantments on your armor while having mage armor on you as it does not "turn off" your other armor ala Bracers of Armor.
And let me tell you about some fantastic armor enchantments here.
But no really I can't live without the deathless armor enchantment now... it just does so much.
I was under the impression that the armor that provided lowet AC entirely ceased to function.
That is true generally for armor. But not armor bonuses. Because Mage Armor is a not an armor you are ok to have both.
Magic armor and bracers of armor work that way -- whichever one has the lower armor bonus simply fails to function in any way. But the rules have no such language for the Mage Armor spell -- only the standard "like bonuses overlap but don't stack" rule applies to Mage Armor combined with a magic item that grants an armor bonus.
It's not armor. Its an invisible field that grants you an armor bonus. I'm sorry but that language that would turn off magic armor and their enhancements is just not there.
That being said I much prefer the +6 armor bonus you can get from a Haramaki, even though it is only 2 more. Though this is largely because there is an extremely limited number of truly effective +X magic armor enchantments in PF. Though I usually just use Magic Vestment to achieve the +5 effect.
Personally, I think arcane casters could grab package deals in wondrous items such as the Robe of the Archmagi or the Robes of the Summit. They're more expensive, but picking up Craft Wondrous Item saves a good deal of trouble with these.
ANYTHING that gives you an armor bonus applies to the stacking rule.It's not armor. Its an invisible field that grants you an armor bonus. I'm sorry but that language that would turn off magic armor and their enhancements is just not there.
That being said I much prefer the +6 armor bonus you can get from a Haramaki, even though it is only 2 more. Though this is largely because there is an extremely limited number of truly effective +X magic armor enchantments in PF. Though I usually just use Magic Vestment to achieve the +5 effect.
Citation needed.
As far as I can tell, he's not talking about the AC bonus. So someone with a +1 Fortification Haramaki and Mage Armor would have a +4 Armor bonus to AC and still enjoy the Fortification special quality. Anzyr, is that what you're saying?Armor/Shield Bonus
Each type of armor grants an armor bonus to Armor Class, while shields grant a shield bonus to Armor Class. The armor bonus from a suit of armor doesn't stack with other effects or items that grant an armor bonus. Similarly, the shield bonus from a shield doesn't stack with other effects that grant a shield bonus.
As you can plainly see Effects such as the mage armor or any other armor spell DO fall into the stacking rules.
This is correct. The armor bonus turns off but the other affects the armor grants you remain.
Incorrect, ALL properties of the suppressed armor are affected.This is correct. The armor bonus turns off but the other affects the armor grants you remain.As far as I can tell, he's not talking about the AC bonus. So someone with a +1 Fortification Haramaki and Mage Armor would have a +4 Armor bonus to AC and still enjoy the Fortification special quality. Anzyr, is that what you're saying?Armor/Shield Bonus
Each type of armor grants an armor bonus to Armor Class, while shields grant a shield bonus to Armor Class. The armor bonus from a suit of armor doesn't stack with other effects or items that grant an armor bonus. Similarly, the shield bonus from a shield doesn't stack with other effects that grant a shield bonus.
As you can plainly see Effects such as the mage armor or any other armor spell DO fall into the stacking rules.
Not since ever. And the rules you posted don't support this.
The "other effects" part you helpfully highlighted refers to items like bracers of armor or spells like mage armor.
Even then it merely states that the armor bonus does not stack, no other affect is suppressed.
Incorrect, ALL properties of the suppressed armor are affected.This is correct. The armor bonus turns off but the other affects the armor grants you remain.As far as I can tell, he's not talking about the AC bonus. So someone with a +1 Fortification Haramaki and Mage Armor would have a +4 Armor bonus to AC and still enjoy the Fortification special quality. Anzyr, is that what you're saying?Armor/Shield Bonus
Each type of armor grants an armor bonus to Armor Class, while shields grant a shield bonus to Armor Class. The armor bonus from a suit of armor doesn't stack with other effects or items that grant an armor bonus. Similarly, the shield bonus from a shield doesn't stack with other effects that grant a shield bonus.
As you can plainly see Effects such as the mage armor or any other armor spell DO fall into the stacking rules.
That literally just says "armor bonus". It says nothing about suppressing enchantments. Literally nothing. Not a single word. Everyone here completely agrees with the text you quoted, because no one thinks armor bonuses stack. Luckily, we are not talking about armor bonuses stacking, but rather the fact that Mage Armor's Armor bonus will grant its higher armor bonus of +4, while still allowing you to benefit from enchantments on a +1 Haramaki (obviously the armor bonus won't stack with mage armor, but that's a given), which is completely legal under what you yourself quoted. Honestly, LazarX a little reading goes a *long* way towards being correct about rulings.
Edit: Ninja'd by TarkXT.
Personally, I think arcane casters could grab package deals in wondrous items such as the Robe of the Archmagi or the Robes of the Summit. They're more expensive, but picking up Craft Wondrous Item saves a good deal of trouble with these.Both of those are hideously overpriced for what they do, the Robe of the Summit especially. SR24 is irrelevant at the level you can afford them and the rest can be obtained for about 70k with bracers of armour, a handy haversack and orange ioun stone.
Arcane casters wanting AC could do worse than invest in a +5 mithril buckler. 0ACP and no ASF.
Granted, the Robes of the Summit is, but it's mostly for prestige anyway. The Robe of the Archmagi is actually pretty decently priced considering the prices of Bracers of Armor, a Cloak of Resistance, and a feat (or maybe an Ioun Stone) that it would take to cover all that. You end up paying a bit more, but it saves on slots that you could invest in otherwise.
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Yeah, I can't see an issue with the stacking from Mage Armor and Haramaki. Doesn't even seem that broken either. I mean if mages are the ones benefiting from it, AC is generally their weakest form of protection considering the miss chances they could have, so I'm not sure what the problem is with the RAW legal combination.
Also Haramakis are awesome, I often flavor mine as dusters, although Armor Kilts are better to me due to being able to be made out of special metals (which I'm not sure Haramakis are, although if someone had citation on that, I'd love to see it).
Going back to the original topic, I think Rogues benefit a lot more from Celestial Armor than heavily enchanted Mithral Chain. Mithral Chain Shirts are great at mid levels but they still cap AC bonus at 6, while Celestial Armor has the same AC as a +5 Mithral Chain Shirt and allows an AC bonus of 8. And you can fly. And Celestial Armor is cheaper than a Mithral Chain Shirt +5.
Stealth bonuses are great, but you can put them on other items too.
I've done a good deal more reading than a little. look up the subject it's been discussed. The change was made specifically to prevent the kind of stacking you're thinking of.
I'm not quite sure what you mean here.
And andreww, I see your point. Though I did have the robe come in handy more than once, so I guess different strokes.
Here's example of the rules text in question. Note the bolded section within.
Aura moderate conjuration; CL 7th
Slot wrists; Price 1,000 gp (+1), 4,000 gp (+2), 9,000 gp (+3), 16,000 gp (+4), 25,000 gp (+5), 36,000 gp (+6), 49,000 gp (+7), 64,000 gp (+8); Weight 1 lb.
DESCRIPTION
These items appear to be wrist or arm guards. They surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor. Both bracers must be worn for the magic to be effective.Alternatively, bracers of armor can be enchanted with armor special abilities. See Table: Armor Special Qualities for a list of abilities. Special abilities usually count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of an item, but do not improve AC. Bracers of armor cannot have a modified bonus (armor bonus plus armor special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +8. Bracers of armor must have at least a +1 armor bonus to grant an armor special ability. Bracers of armor cannot have any armor special abilities that add a flat gp amount to their cost. Bracers of armor and ordinary armor do not stack. If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities. If the bracers of armor grant a larger armor bonus, the other source of armor ceases functioning.
That is purely a function of Bracers of armor. That line is not true of magical armor. As has been explained previously, by myself and others. You are trying to extrapolate a specific rule into a general one.
Edit: Ninja'd by Justin Sane.
So whatever happened to talking about the best armors per class? I feel like somehow someone's interpretation of the rules hijacked.
Anyways, been building a character lately and its been really hard to find much better for a light armor class character than mithral breastplate + Armor expert. Takes a while to wait on the extra gold, but I always felt like medium armor proficiency was a bit of a rip. Well that and boring.
So whatever happened to talking about the best armors per class? I feel like somehow someone's interpretation of the rules hijacked.
Anyways, been building a character lately and its been really hard to find much better for a light armor class character than mithral breastplate + Armor expert. Takes a while to wait on the extra gold, but I always felt like medium armor proficiency was a bit of a rip. Well that and boring.
Well the "best armor" is a very straightforward thing.
Step 1: Check your Dexterity Bonus.
Step 2: Check each armors Armor bonus and Maximum Dexterity.
Step 3: For armors that can be made of mithril factor in an additional 2 dexterity.
Step 4: Pick the one with the highest armor that allows for as much of your dexterity bonus as possible.
Step 5: Consider reduced move speed/ASF/ACP.
Really most of the good stuff has already been mentioned. So its just a matter of running the factors.
Well the "best armor" is a very straightforward thing.
Step 1: Check your Dexterity Bonus.
Step 2: Check each armors Armor bonus and Maximum Dexterity.
Step 3: For armors that can be made of mithril factor in an additional 2 dexterity.
Step 4: Pick the one with the highest armor that allows for as much of your dexterity bonus as possible.
Step 5: Consider reduced move speed/ASF/ACP.Really most of the good stuff has already been mentioned. So its just a matter of running the factors.
I always looked at it like this:
Just looking at AC and no enhancements or special qualities its going to be Full Plate > Breastplate > Chainmail > Haramaki. Full plate has a possible AC of 10, breastplate 9, and chainmail 8. Haramaki only exceeds the others if your dexterity bonus exceeds +9. The heavy armors have an easier to hit dexterity modifier. Mithral is always choice to add +2 to your max dex adding +2 AC potential. Mithral breastplate will win against a mithral chainmail in almost any situation where you have medium. If you start with light consider taking armor expert to wear a mithral breastplate without proficiency.
I simply don't see what LazarX was trying to say is all. I understand that only the highest armor bonus applies when dealing with BoA, but I was saying the Robes can perform the functions of +5 SR 18 Bracers of Armor and a few other items and only taking up one body slot for the price of a few gold more.
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two words: Mithral Kikko
+5 armor bonus, +6 max dex, NO armor check penalty. 10% arcane failure,
and the best part is, this can be worn by ANYBODY. i'll remind you all that the penalty for non-proficiency is taking the armor check penalty on your attack rolls. so this (or any armor with 0 armor check penalty) has no actual penalty for wearing without proficiency
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two words: Mithral Kikko
+5 armor bonus, +6 max dex, NO armor check penalty. 10% arcane failure,
and the best part is, this can be worn by ANYBODY. i'll remind you all that the penalty for non-proficiency is taking the armor check penalty on your attack rolls. so this (or any armor with 0 armor check penalty) has no actual penalty for wearing without proficiency
To be fair, it's 3k more than Mithril Chain Shirt, which is just once AC lower. If you're cool with the expense, it's fine, as it's going to end up +1 AC compared to Mithril Chain Shirt, but it's something to consider.
