Help with Making the Ultimate Cantrip Warrior


Advice


I've had the pleasure of reading through dozens of threads dedicated to unique uses of some of the more versatile cantrips like prestidigitation, ghost sounds and mage hand, and now I'm set on attempting to build a usable character that has a heavy focus on using cantrips to accomplish as much as they can. Unfortunately I can't come up with a way to make a viable build out of this concept, let alone optimized, so I'm turning it over to the boards to see if anyone can figure out how to make it work.

This is the build so far:
Orc Bloodline Sorcerer 3/Two Handed Fighter 9
Race: Human
20 point buy
str 20
dex 10
con 10
int 7
wis 10
cha 15

1st - Sorcerer 1: Extra Cantrips, Fire God's Blessing
2nd - Fighter 1: Power Attack
3rd - Fighter 2: Grudge Fighter, Cleave
4th - Sorcerer 2: -
5th - Fighter 3: Elemental Spell (Fire)
6th - Fighter 4: Great Cleave
7th - Sorcerer 3: Enlarge Spell
8th - Fighter 5:
9th - Fighter 6: Cornugon Smash, Furious Focus
10th - Fighter 7:
11th - Fighter 8:Extend Spell, Hammer the Gap
12th - Fighter 9:

As I said before, I can't think of a proper build to set this up in. The basic idea is to use cantrips as effectively as possible (in this case using prestidigitation to make hot rocks spawn inside the opponent's lungs to both deal decent damage - 1d6 fire per turn and 1d6 nonlethal every other turn if they fail their save - and provide a source of fast healing) and then use martial might to clean up what 0 and 1st level spellcasting clearly can't. I would like to make this PFS legal, but that isn't a necessity

Sovereign Court

If you're planning on using prestidigitation as an offensive spell (or worse, "a source of fast healing"), don't expect the character to work in PFS. You may have more luck in a home game, but I doubt it. There are a few threads that focus on increasing the damage of offensive cantrips that you might find useful.
Also, a 10 Con is asking for a speedy death. Especially when combined with a 10 Dex.


....and 10 wis


To get extra cantrips, instead of taking three levels of sorcerer, wouldn't you get more from taking levels in different casting classes - as you get the spell allowance from each (Sorcerer gets four, Bard gets four (and also uses Cha) and a slightly different list, Wizard gets to choose three from all of them - or choose Witch instead of Wizard for a slightly different list).

So your three levels would get you 11 cantrips; Bard and Witch each get a few extra choices that Wizard/Sorcerer don't.

I can't imagine the GM that would let you get away with the hot rocks trick ... (you can chill or warm items - not freeze or heat; i.e. the effect is mild).

Quote:
The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components

Also, consider that the actual offensive cantrips (Acid Splash, Ray of Frost) only deal 1d3 damage - I wouldn't expect any level 0 to inflict general damage greater than this. (Disrupt Undead deals 1d6, but is very limited by creature type).

Your best bet with most cantrips is to distract or dazzle.


Build points were moreso set up just to emphasize what my focuses would be. Thanks for the link to the other thread though, it gives a couple really nice ideas. I was hoping for a more melee focused build though. The cantrip eldritch knight as it were


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A gnome could use threatening illusion to use ghost sound for generating flanking buddies. Combined with magical lineage (ghost sound) that means it's still a cantrip.


Bear in mind: if playing this character PFS legal then Prestidigitation will do next to nothing in game. The spell is for flavor only. As pointed out in the quote above Prestidigitation can't attack, deal damage, or emulate other spells in an obvious way.

If you're playing in home games then the spell will be as useful as your creativity and the GM's grace allow it to be. I personally have houseruled effects like attracting vermin to specific scents, using the "puff of smoke" function of the spell to temporarily obscure one creature's vision and I've simulated an alarm by having a bunch of crude clay vessels behind a door when it was opened. I've suggested/had suggested to me many other things.

As for other cantrips/orisons I second the idea of taking levels in different caster types to get more cantrips. Even a 10 Wis is enough to get a level of cleric though I think you can get access to most of their unique orisons through taking witch instead.


Umbranus wrote:
A gnome could use threatening illusion to use ghost sound for generating flanking buddies. Combined with magical lineage (ghost sound) that means it's still a cantrip.

I forgot all about magical lineage! It's a shame it doesn't affect the full-round casting time though.

On that note, my logic behind sticking with three levels of sorcerer instead of three different casting classes was to increase the duration of spells like ghost sound, in case people were still wondering.

Scarab Sages

A: Nothing personal, but the "Orc Bloodline" should be boycotted on principle - as others before me have observed, what's less magical than an Orc (well, unless you're operating on the mythos of the computer game Arcanum, but in the Golarion mythos, Humans have more justification for generating a Sorcerer Bloodline)? Good grief, at least give us Elf and Gnome Bloodlines.

B: Regarding your ability scores, I'm not as adamant as some above about saying your scores as is are a bad idea (speaking as someone whose Monk has a base Constitution of 8; admittedly, she does have the Toughness feat), but I agree with the idea that a "slightly-magical tricky warrior" ought to have...less spartan scores than that. If I were to change them, I'd at least reduce the Strength to 18 in order to raise Intelligence to 8, Charisma to 16, and either Dexterity or Constitution (probably Dexterity) to 12.

C: This may neither fulfill your present character vision nor be anywhere resembling legal for your game, but I'd be remiss if I didn't mention to you other options out there that try to transcend the limits of the Cantrip, such as Mongoose Publishing's Hedge Wizard, or this and this.


Elf bloodline would be Sylvan and Gnome bloodline would be Fey. What about an anti-magic bloodline?


I always thought the ultimate cantrip warrior was a 3.5 warlock. He just calls his cantrips something else.

A static D6 or so won't scale very well into the higher levels. So while the cantrips will be awesome for out of combat gigs, in combat I think you'll be smashing faces with a weapon more often than not taking the sorc/fighter route. Might get more milage out of bard or eldritch knight.

Dark Archive

I have an acid slash specialist that deals 80plus damage per round with it.

It requires heavy focus though.

Dark Archive

It's on a magus/sorcerer build that requires samsaran and flameblade.


Titania, the Summer Queen wrote:

I have an acid slash specialist that deals 80plus damage per round with it.

It requires heavy focus though.

If you mean acid splash, are you sure you are not adding stuff that only applies to rays but not acid splash? Stuff that increases weapon damage like inspire courage and the like?


Use the Karmic bloodline.

Fail defensively casting a cantrip.

Get AoOs for free-ish.

Dark Archive

using and acid flasks metamagic extend along with the orc Elemental Subtype . I get to change damage to fire. extra damage for bloodline and favored class bonus. Plus used in conjunction with spell strike and flameblade via magambyan arcanist. Two spells getting fire damage bonus one attack. The damage re occurs for 3 more rounds. Also magical lineage.


Sounds interesting

Dark Archive

Umbranus wrote:
Sounds interesting

before your doing 80 - 150 damage a round your settling on 16 - 28 damage at level 3

edited for accuracy


Titania, the Summer Queen wrote:
using and acid flasks metamagic extend along with the orc Elemental Subtype . I get to change damage to fire. extra damage for bloodline and favored class bonus. Plus used in conjunction with spell strike and flameblade via magambyan arcanist. Two spells getting fire damage bonus one attack. The damage re occurs for 3 more rounds. Also magical lineage.

For this build in particular I was looking at making it more martial, so Titania, while your set-up is fantastic it doesn't quite fit the feel I was going for.

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
C: This may neither fulfill your present character vision nor be anywhere resembling legal for your game, but I'd be remiss if I didn't mention to you other options out there that try to transcend the limits of the Cantrip, such as Mongoose Publishing's Hedge Wizard, or this and this.

The 3.5 options are definitely out, I might be able to run the Hedge Wizard by my GM in a home campaign though.

LoneKnave wrote:

Use the Karmic bloodline.

Fail defensively casting a cantrip.

Get AoOs for free-ish.

Actually that sounds like that could really work for my idea. If I rework it as Sorcerer 1/Fighter 3/Monk 8 then I can do this:

Reworked Build:

Crossblooded Orc and Karmic Bloodline Sorcerer 1/Brawler 3/Underfoot Adept 8
Race: Human
20 point buy
str 13
dex 16 (+2 racial)
con 13
int 13
wis 14
cha 11
1st - Sorcerer 1: Combat Expertise, Racial Heritage (Halfling)
2nd - Monk 1: Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike
3rd - Monk 2: Combat Reflexes, Vicious Stomp
4th - Fighter 1: Fury's Fall
5th - Monk 3: Piercing Spell
6th - Monk 4:
7th - Fighter 2:Disruptive Spell, Weapon Focus (Temple Sword)
8th - Monk 5:
9th - Monk 6: Greater Trip, Improved Disarm
10th - Monk 7:
11th - Monk 8: Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike)
12th - Fighter 3:

The idea for that would be to cast some cantrip, draw an attack of opportunity and use that to trip the opponent, giving me two more attacks of opportunity for them falling. If I wanted to extend the build, at level 15 I could pick up Spell Perfection so that I could quicken the cantrip, allowing me to do two attacks of opportunity then flurry against -4 AC. Counting as colossal for the purposes of tripping is pretty fantastic so I'd probably go with monk for the rest of the levels.

Opinions?


When you provoke AoOs, it's really good to have a flank buddy. Pick up one of the bloodlines that gives animal companion through Eldritch heritage (for example), and give it Paired opportunist. You have your opponent provoke 3 AoOs there, that's 3 extra attacks from everyone around it. I'd even dip a level into cavalier, or 3 levels into divine tactician for that.

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