Party of 8 in the Catacombs of Wrath: Advice please

[Aeloth IVI]

Hello everyone,

So I have a party of 8 2nd level PCs (just leveled up per the AP suggested leveling), fairly well optimized characters. I worry about them steamrolling through the catacombs, howver. Per my advice and hints they have good melee, good ranged and good magic - well for Level 2 PCs. No magic weapons though, nor money to go and buy any.

Advice on how to keep the encounters interesting to them would be much appreciated. Am thinking of maybe putting spikes on the ceiling and walls of the levitation room and make 'em sweat some.

Thanks!

[Tybid]

For that many characters I would probably do a number of things:

1.) Make one of your players in charge of keeping initiative so you can keep up with how to best combat such a large group.
2.) Advance Template everything (Back of Bestiary)
3.) Max HP for everything.
4.) 50% larger number of mooks (sinspawn, vargouilles, and zombies)
5.) Consider doubling the size of the rooms if that is a viable option for you.
6.) If it looks like one of the big bads looks like they are going to be taken down have them retreat and combine with the other to set up traps and a large free for all attack on the party.

[anthonydido]

With that mant players I wouldn't follow the level up guide in the AP. Keeping them below the suggested level should help with balance issues (since the AP is based around a 4-player group). The main thing is action economy. Tybid gave good suggestions. Usually adding more bad guys helps with action economy since the party will have to split their focus.

[Aeloth IVI]

Thanks for the suggestions. This all came about very quickly we went from 6 PCs to 8 literally overnight - after I told the PCs to level up. Doh!!!

What I will do:

* Double the number of mooks (as you so nicely put it). Give them full health and (if I have time) apply advanced templates to them. Should be easy through the bestiary.

* Change the quasit (Elyrium) to something bigger and badder. Her d4-1 or d4-2 dagger (from memory) will just annoy the PCs. Maybe I'll just give her real weapons to fight the PCs with?

Is there a "bigger, badder" version of a quasit I can change her to? Don't have that much time to prepare.

Thanks again!

[Tybid]

Well, with a doubled number of sinspawn in the room you might still be ok.

Elyrium (from what I understand) is already a potentially vicious fight especially if they haven't pieced together that there is a quasit in the dungeon. If they don't have any cold iron weapons, specifically cold iron ranged weapons as she should typically be flying out of reach, it's gonna be a long hard fight.

Other DM's on the boards have said that having her try and lure party members into walking through the pool that enrages them is a tactic that they have used.

If you were going to upgrade her perhaps add another level or two perhaps?

[anthonydido]

Maybe give her rogue levels for sneak attack and the spring attack feat.

[Aeloth IVI]

Is 4 sinspawn too many for the 8 PCs? In one of the prison-style room at the very top left of the map there were originally 2 sinspawn. If I put 4 in there is that too much?

[Tybid]

With 8 people I certainly wouldn't go with less than 3 and depending on point buy I suppose 4 might still be a fair - easy challenge.

I would definitely do 4, but my players tell me I'm sadistic at times.

[Askren]

Doubling the number of enemies won't do anything. A party of 8 competent level 2 PCs could easily take tripled encounter sizes without breaking a sweat.

Not to mention there's absolutely no room to maneuver in most of the rooms the dungeon has with that many people.

Honestly? I would say break them into two groups, because there is no way an 8-man party is ever a good idea. Especially not past level 4.

[Aeloth IVI]

Just wanted to let you know that Friday's session went well. Despite Eleyrium (sp?) getting grappled (after I got over confident and got stupid). She's now bound and gagged in a backpack.

I think that 8 players is just way too much for the opposition. Having said that they *two* Vargouilles did put 3 of my PCs on the floor paralyzed with one PC being kissed (now in the process of turning into a flying head, unless they can get back to the cathedral in time).

We stopped soon after the Basilica of Lamashtu.

Now that Eleyrium is communicating telepathically with Korovus and maybe another Quasit (a cleric of Lamashtu) who will hit our heroes hard with channeled energy as the zombies that Korovus has freed from their pits attacks the party. Their plan will be to grapple a PC, put a rusty knife to his/her throat and demand that Elyrium be freed. Should be some good times.

Any particularly nasty cleric-stuff that a cleric of Lamashtu could bring to bear on the PCs other than channeled negative energy? They will have had several hours to prepare for the PCs arrival (now without healing and no alchemical bombs).