hi, early in life there are not alot of spells to case, so the question is asked. our group has never run a real wizard/sorcerer type. the perception is blam, one spell shot, wait for the next day to do it one more time. there are those spells that are 3+modifier, but still, one fight could use that all up, and then what for the next room in the dungeon? i think we are missing the big picture for the arcane casters. the cleric has armor and a weapon to smack the evil guys with. a weak caster? gnome? 1d4 if he even wants to get up close with no armor on? a bit of basic advice would be nice.
this time around i drew the straw and will be trying a ratfolk wizard or gnome sorcerer. and ask.
If you can carry it- Heavy Crossbow. 1d10 damage with the attack bonus based off of BAB + Dex bonus. Full round action to reload, so there's some action economy that needs to be thought about, but it provides at least the potential for consistent damage outside of spells.
Also, as soon as you can afford them, you'll want to invest in wands. Trigger items for low level casters are a must.
There are cantrip spells that can do minor damage or daze an opponent. Another option is to spend a standard action to do a knowledge role on an enemy.
Some level 1 wizards may use a crossbow. Elvish wizards can use a longbow.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well, there's always the light crossbow. Or see if you can get your hands on a Wand of Magic Missile.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I don't have much to add, except concurrence. A crossbow shot can be worth it at low levels, though I'd then resort to cantrips rather than spending time reloading. Try to pick off severely weakened opponents, so that the big guns in the party can focus on meatier targets.
Also, know the initiative order. I've been in situations where it was worth it to move up into melee just to provide flanking bonuses and Aid Another when I'm confident the ally I'm flanking with is going to act long before the enemy and should be able to finish them off (with a +4 to hit thanks to me). Measure the risk and gauge whether or not you can safely take at lest one hit. Even the wizard should be ready to take one for the team every now and then. There's always fighting defensively, too.
Carrying some caltrops or an alchemical item couldn't hurt, either.
For Sorcerers, or the occasionally charismatic Wizard, consider demoralizing via Intimidation.
Scrolls (cheap to make), crossbow, oil flask, alchemical weapons, ans sometimes sandwich making. I have played several low level wizards and all of these have been uSeful to me.
Another option is to spend a standard action to do a knowledge role on an enemy.
Knowledge checks are non-actions insofar as I know.
|
I've had some success with the 1d3 damage cantrips. Acid Splash, combined with the alchemical focus item (flask of acid, from Adventurer's Armory), combined with Point Blank Shot and a good Dex, meant I'd be hitting 60% of the time for 1d3+2 damage, without going into melee. Pretty decent for something that's almost free.
(My build was going towards Magical Lineage->Reach Spell->Calcific Touch, so getting to Precise Shot was the real reason for Point-Blank-Shot.)
Skip crossbow, it's a trap. Use cantrips and your specialist power, if there is one.
Acid splash, etc are good, but there's also Daze (really good for the first few levels).
Wizards have unlimited magic, but the more powerful stuff goes fast. Ration it. Once you have seen the battle has turned, go back to cantrips.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Since switching from 2e to 3e, when playing a wizard I notice that I never seem to run out of spells anymore. If I didn't have an appropriate one prepared, on a scroll, or in a wand, I'd probably just stand there and blow smoke rings out of a pipe.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Since switching from 2e to 3e, when playing a wizard I notice that I never seem to run out of spells anymore. If I didn't have an appropriate one prepared, on a scroll, or in a wand, I'd probably just stand there and blow smoke rings out of a pipe.
I was going to say "cough into your handkerchief and order your brother to make your tea," but smoke rings work, too. ;)
Maybe get a reach weapon and try and aid another from behind the fighter?
hide behind a corner swearing vengance as soon as you'll get a couple more levels. Arcane caster really aren't much fun the first few levels.
Well, first, if one fight is draining all your spells, either your GM is throwing WAY high level encounters at you, or you really need to learn to conserve ammo.
Get a vial of alchemical acid, and use it as a focus for Acid Splash, getting +1 damage. The increased accuracy for targetting touch AC makes up for the lower-than-a-crossbow damage, then spam that.
Don't think of Acid Splash as your backup or 'when I'm out of useful things to do' spell. Think of it as your go-to attack spell, and reserve your higher level spells for critical moments.
RL analogy ... you have a handgun with a metric crapload of ammo, and 4 grenades. You don't throw the grenades first.
Alchemical weapons are your low-level friends. And the best part? You can pass them out to your buddies and all bombard an otherwise hard to hit enemy for a crap load of damage.
I agree with Zhayne. Alchemical weapons are your low-level friends. And the best part? You can pass them out to your buddies and all bombard an otherwise hard to hit enemy for a crap load of damage.
Not what I said at all ...
Why, I don't know what you're talking about, Zhayne. ;P
It's not PFS approved, but if your DM will let you use 3.5 stuff, there's a cantrip in the 3.5 Spell Compendium called "launch bolt" that lets you shoot a crossbow bolt from your hand just like you were firing it from a light crossbow. No encumbrance from the weapon, no reloading. When the wizard character I'm presently playing was in his first levels, I used that cantrip ALL THE TIME, and was dealing damage almost as regularly as the party's martial characters, as well as helping out in other ways. And once he could afford it, he (an elf) bought himself a masterwork composite longbow and never fired another crossbow bolt again.
I also took Point-Blank Shot as my first feat and Precise Shot as my second feat to enable this strategy. Now I get great use out of those feats with rays.
thanks alot guys, gives me something to contemplate
|
I've had some success with the 1d3 damage cantrips. Acid Splash, combined with the alchemical focus item (flask of acid, from Adventurer's Armory), combined with Point Blank Shot and a good Dex, meant I'd be hitting 60% of the time for 1d3+2 damage, without going into melee. Pretty decent for something that's almost free.
This.
Not sure about how worthwhile Point Blank Shot is, unless you plan on being a Ray specialist. Maybe take it and Retrain it later?
If you took at least 12 Dex, a Light Crossbow is a totally valid choice for 1st and 2nd level. It's a fall-back tool, not a primary attack strategy. Gravity Bow and/or Magic Weapon helps. Cold Iron Bolts.
After your first treasure haul, buy or scribe as many 1st level scrolls as you can. They are very cheap, keep you in the fight, and you can make a lot of them.
Some good ones: Enlarge Person, Protection from Evil, Mage Armor, Burning Hands, Color Spray, Infernal Healing, Silent Image, Ray of Enfeeblement, Expeditious Retreat. 25gp each / 12.5gp to make a scroll.
Use a Bandolier to keep them organized until you can afford a Handy Haversack.
A wand of Magic Missile is OK, but it's just not a fantastic choice. A wand of Grease, however, IS a fantastic choice that will be useful throughout your adventuring career.
Waving wands. Flanking with mirror images. Observing the battlefield and making sure he isn't going to be caught in a bad position.
Or, alternatively get the trait to use intimidate with int instead of cha and intimidate opponents when you have nothing else to do.
If I ever play a wizard, I'll pick up Catch Off-Guard and my go-to tactic will be smacking enemies with books.
Especially if my GM can be convince to let me use my spellbooks in conjunction wit the Scrollmaster's abilities.
|
|
As a wizard in the 3-5 levels, I was rather fond of Flaming Sphere. It lasts long enough that you can do something magical every round, but doesn't obstruct any additional spellcasting you want to do.
While FS' damage isn't all that high, it does a nice job of battlefield shaping. Push it onto a monster, and chances are you've encouraged the monster to move out of that spot. Place it in a place you don't want monsters, and likely they won't go there.
You can use Dancing Lights and Ghost Sound cantrips to try to fool enemies; make it sound like you have reinforcements coming, or make them wonder if you just summoned a fire elemental or lantern archon.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Cry "Fool of a Took!" whenever the party halfling does something foolish.
Insert every "use crossbow" post here
I play a wizard/sorcerer to cast spells. If I want to play a magic + ranged weapon guy I take an Inquisitor or Arcane archer...
The lack of spells, especially on the early levels is something which bothers me a lot at PF (and DnD 3.0).
It's like telling a figther "you can only do 3 attacks per day with your Greatsword".
Vote for a revamp of the school powers or the "reserve feats" from 3.5
Insert every "use crossbow" post hereI play a wizard/sorcerer to cast spells. If I want to play a magic + ranged weapon guy I take an Inquisitor or Arcane archer...
The lack of spells, especially on the early levels is something which bothers me a lot at PF (and DnD 3.0).
It's like telling a figther "you can only do 3 attacks per day with your Greatsword".Vote for a revamp of the school powers or the "reserve feats" from 3.5
But, but everyone here SAYS spellcasters are super-duper overpowered, at all levels!?! It must be true then, right? They also say martial classes are worthless and rogues even more worthless. They say this over & over & over loudly at every chance they get, and favorite each others posts- so it must be true, right???
I don't actually see anybody saying casters are super duper overpowered at low levels. I see a bunch of people saying they're right on par with Fighters and Barbarians at low levels and very quickly outstrip them.
(That being said I don't participate in every martials/casters thread, so I may have missed it.)
Yep, and they have absolutely totally PROVED it by means of builds built for one spell such as Color spray or Burning hands- I mean, we know every monster will fall to Color spray, right? 100%? And heck , just because the spell gets useless later, then there's retraining, so....
Level 1 Wizard win buttons include Color Spray, Sleep, and Grease from the core rules, I'm pretty sure there are a couple more obscure options as well. (Burning hands is generally a terrible spell IMO)
The odds of the target failing its save against a spell chosen to target its weak save are much higher than its odds of success. 100%? Nah, but ~80% seems plausible.
That being said, at level 1 a greatsword is also a save or pass out against most opponents (average 13 damage assuming an 18 strength), so... things aren't too bad for the martials down here.
I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that rant was purely rhetorical, and that it wasn't meant as a call for an actual argument to look at.
That said, imagine this feat:
BEAT SENSELESS (COMBAT)
Prerequisite: Fighter level 1st
Benefit: Once per day as a standard action, you may batter all enemies in a 15-ft. cone. Any opponent hit is instantly dealt enough nonlethal damage to knock it unconscious (no saving throw, but damage reduction applies). Targets with over 5 HD are stunned 1 round, rather than knocked out.
I think a lot of people would instantly scream "OP!" even though it costs a feat, is usable only 1/day, and has no blindness clause. An area-effect stun is useful at any level, not just 1st.
You think first level wizards have it rough today? First Edition AD+D, ONE spell per day... TOTAL.
yeah, and no free auto-hit... you got one spell per day and if it was magic missile you got one shot as if using a +2 crossbow. that might actually be going all the way back to basic- i don't remember when they switched that...
get off my lawn.
My merry band of players still insist on First Edition rules to this day...I have to convert Paizo so I can run the adventures.
My merry band of players still insist on First Edition rules to this day...I have to convert Paizo so I can run the adventures.
so, did they already make magic missile auto-hit in first edition or does it still require a ranged attack?
That said, imagine this feat:BEAT SENSELESS (COMBAT)
Prerequisite: Fighter level 1st
Benefit: Once per day as a standard action, you may batter all enemies in a 15-ft. cone. Any opponent hit is instantly dealt enough nonlethal damage to knock it unconscious (no saving throw, but damage reduction applies). Targets with over 5 HD are stunned 1 round, rather than knocked out.I think a lot of people would instantly scream "OP!" even though it costs a feat, is usable only 1/day, and has no blindness clause. An area-effect stun is useful at any level, not just 1st.
Except that CS doe allow a SR (not to mention it provokes). And what's most important, being a tank in the middle of combat is a fine, true & noble thing- but being a low level full spellcaster in the middle of combat- is a"dead thing".
Sure CS is a great spell for it's level, but it requires you to get no more than 15' away from the foes- with no meat shield between you. If they make their save, you're dead. And it's REALLY hard to get more than one monster in the cone, and what to the other monsters do then? Eat your spellcasting face off.
i think a considerable part of the issue comes from people's desire to be completely optimized. i'm not bashing that- i optimize all my characters (though i create a concept then make the best version of that concept i can, not just pure min/maxing). but when your character is completely optimized to cast you're definitely going to have issues at low levels when you may not have enough magic for that to be your only solution.
if you want to be completely optimized as a caster, you've already gotten good advice- load up on wands and scrolls to give yourself more magical resources; pearls of power are also great. if you want more options, pick a race with weapon familiarity (or spend a feat) and carry a real weapon, pick up some leather armor (and memorize shield instead of mage armor), and take 18 Int instead of 20 so you have some points for Str/Dex/Con- now you don't have to worry so much about getting near melee or having choice beyond 'i cast X'.
with the retrain rules you can do even more... take light armor proficiency at 1st level and wear a chain shirt; sure you'd have to roll ASF, but everyone else has to roll to hit anyways (and you only miss on 1-4 on a d20). an elven wizard could pretty easily start with 16 Dex and 18 Int in a 20 pt buy- carry a longsword and longbow, wear a chainshirt, and still be capable of casting pretty reliably (and at around 4 or 5th, when they can afford to cast all the time just pay to retrain your first feat)... honestly, you could even start as a magus for the 1st 4 levels and then retrain as full wizard at 5th (if your GM allows).
and all that is just looking at straight wizards... if you start with one martial level (for survivability and combat options) then take 1 level of wizard with the divination|scryer school you can level as an eldritch knight from 3-12th... you're one spell level behind a full wizard (2nd level spells @5, 3rd @7, etc) but you're only 1 point behind a fighter's BAB and have way more hp than most wizards...
My merry band of players still insist on First Edition rules to this day...I have to convert Paizo so I can run the adventures.so, did they already make magic missile auto-hit in first edition or does it still require a ranged attack?
It auto hit...but only what you could actually see!
Plus it didn't go around corners.
1d4 plus 1 point for each missile...1 missile every other level...1 at first...2 at third...3 at fifth...ecetera with no cap.
That silly Jalansifer's trident spell...7th level...lets the caster cast 3 1st level spells at once...guess what my party mage uses?
I just have my enemy mages run a shield spell...1st level that blocks magic missile spells totally...while it lasts...
Better than eating a auto hit...no save 3 times 7 missiles [7d4 plus 7 times 3].