Did anyone else see when he put "Decadent Horse Brothel"? I'm naming a band that now, btw.Brony Band?
Neigh!
It's actually simple. Every paladin must have a Phylactery of Faithfulness. Thus, no issues.
"Everypony, put your hooves together!"Did anyone else see when he put "Decadent Horse Brothel"? I'm naming a band that now, btw.Brony Band?
Brohoof.
Brohoof."Everypony, put your hooves together!"Did anyone else see when he put "Decadent Horse Brothel"? I'm naming a band that now, btw.Brony Band?
BROHOOF.
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I used to think of Paladin as living saints, and the only truly righteous mortal beings.
Then I experienced more of the world and realized that while black and white are great for paper and ink, they're pretty terrible as views of morality.
aaand, the discussions gone. At least it went off-track in a different direction than "angry alignment argument."
Really, I think "Bronies" is a refreshing change of pace.
....what have I done?
I just don't know what went wrong.BROHOOF.Brohoof."Everypony, put your hooves together!"Did anyone else see when he put "Decadent Horse Brothel"? I'm naming a band that now, btw.Brony Band?
Evidently you have not heard the term 'Pony-finder' before.
Someone I know homebrewed it... I have staunchly refused to have anything to do with it...
They might work better as a pantheon. Then I could play a paladin of Derpy Hooves.
SEE WE'RE BACK ON SUBJECT NOW
I hate to say this...but I think the Bronies are preferable to a stupid alignment argument every week.
But yes, in seriousness I think the simplest solution is to make the Phylactery of Faithfulness into a class feature as part of the base set of rules in the game. This way GMs will have to recognize they are either ignoring the rules or screwing their players.
Hrmmm....they probably still wont care and we will probably get twice as many threads b~&%$ing about how they can't make the paladin fall now.
The problem still is, who controls the Phylactery? If its the GM, we are still going to get the 12585 threads on the subject. at one point there were 4 in the first page alone.
The OP hasn't responded in a while, I guess we didn't give him the right answer.
I don't know about the town in this campaign, but where I live gambling builds community and camaraderie. It's no different than gathering for a game of darts and putting a few dollars at stake to make it more interesting.
By participating in games that the townspeople clearly enjoy, the paladin is more a part of the community than if he abstained.
Standing apart from everyone and frowning at their 'heathen games' is no way to build community and brotherhood.
The problem still is, who controls the Phylactery? If its the GM, we are still going to get the 12585 threads on the subject. at one point there were 4 in the first page alone.
The OP hasn't responded in a while, I guess we didn't give him the right answer.
What do you mean by "controls the phylactery"?
The phylactery says, "The wearer of a phylactery of faithfulness is aware of any action or item that could adversely affect his alignment and his standing with his deity, including magical effects. He acquires this information prior to performing such an action or becoming associated with such an item if he takes a moment to contemplate the act." So, if the player were about to do something the deity (read as GM) doesn't like he has to inform the player beforehand.
The GM can't pull a gotcha after he's done something and say, "Well turns out your god doesn't like that, so you fall."
Having something like the Phylactery of Faithfulness baked into the Paladin's class features would be nice, but all it really does is keep the GM from pulling the "Surprise, Paladin Falls" trick. Really, as long as falling remains a part of the Paladin's mechanics, there will be "Should the Paladin Fall" threads.
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Perhaps the "DM looking for a reason for the paladin to fall" is a result of the GM placing expectations on the PC to play a certain character rather than class. Every class carries some sort of stereotypical baggage and if you break away from that, then people notice: Rogues always use thin pointy weapons and steal a lot so play a mace wielding secret agent. Barbarians are always half-orcs with greataxes, etc. so makea gnome barbarian who prefers a longspear. Unfortunately for the paladin, if you don't play The Most Upstanding Paragon of What Everyone Thinks A Good Person Should Be than the DM gets to use this against you.
Can we get back to the ponies & bronies? Better subject.
Unfortunately for the paladin, if you don't play The Most Upstanding Paragon of What Everyone Thinks A Good Person Should Be than the DM gets to use this against you.
Actually Read that like a Terry Pratchett book, worked pretty well.
It's actually simple. Every paladin must have a Phylactery of Faithfulness. Thus, no issues.
I pretty much made that a special ability for paladins in my games. If someone is relying on the power of a deity, it makes sense they would have a sense if they are about to do something that would make them lose those powers. That also means that people playing Paladins in my games don't have to worry about the "you fall Ha ha ha" from me. I've played many Paladins in my life and I hate that.
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As I understand it, a paladin, by virtue of the process it took to become one, ought to have a better idea of what her code is than the paladin's player. So the phylactery of faithfulness is redundant unless the paladin was suffering from some sort of compulsion. The GM should do the paladin's player the courtesy of giving her character the benefit of the doubt and warning her when she's about to do something against the code.
The player, on the other hand, should keep protracted arguments for between sessions. Even when the GM is dead wrong, as in this case. : D
step 1: Fall for stupid reasons and Become an anti-paladin
step 2: murder your previous friends/Gm's favorite NPC
step 3: ????
step 4: profit
Can we get back to the ponies & bronies? Better subject.
Truth.
Sadly, I'm not sure if Derpy Hooves can have Paladins; she seems pretty Chaotic Good to me. (On an unrelated note, a friend of mine once made an Inquisitor of Shelyn who was basically Rarity.)
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How to deal with a half assed Paladin... turn the other cheek?
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Unfortunately for the paladin, if you don't play The Most Upstanding Paragon of What Everyone Thinks A Good Person Should Be than the DM gets to use this against you.Actually Read that like a Terry Pratchett book, worked pretty well.
Speaking of Pratchett, imo Carrot can make a great (if slightly nontraditional) paladin. This guy has the goods (and the lawfuls).
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I thought, at first, that I wouldn't chime in, but now I've changed my mind.
About the real issue here: as long as the GM, player in question, and the others know what they want and figure out what works, while allowing each other to go with their own ideas as long as they aren't antagonistic to each other, they can figure out what'll work well.
To the threadjackers:
I'm going to make up a goblin paladin. Even if she falls, that won't stop her from bringing fire and the chopper to her worst foe.
...and that's all I'm going to say about that.
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That was my point on the phylactery. The only thing is it keeps the threads from being
Did this paladin fall?
and they become
Should I trigger the phylactery?
The core issue in all these threads is a lack of communication and/or differing expectations by the GM and player.
The core answer is always, if you have to ask, they didn't.
GMs: work with your players to figure out what kinda of code you want to play.
Players: work with your GM to make sure you have something set up to warn you of potentially bad behavior.
I love paladins. Played one in AD&D and have a couple here on the forums. But I'll never play one in a game where the GM doesn't work with me to 1) Approve a code and 2) have some idea of when I might be close to doing something wrong.
I'll just go play something else. To be honest, if i were the paladin in question in these threads, I bet I would not be having fun, if it's not the player being a jerk.
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Because historic/literary/early D&D paladins are based on a Christian code (Lancelot, Roland, Galahad, etc) there is still a left over feeling that paladins act in a way that is hard core Christian (no drinking, smoking, gambling, sex, fun, etc.)
That is not, however, the basis for the Pathfinder Paladin. Is his god actively against (note i do not use the ok with test) drinking, gambling, sex, etc. If the god is not then a Paladin is perfectly ok doing those things.
A Paladin is a holy warrior. He fights against what his god fights against. He does not fall because he engages in activities that other people might find questionable.
The answer to all paladin issues is to sit down with the player and work out an actual code (or borrow one from faiths of purity and expand upon it) and discuss what that code means in typical situations.
Most of the time its a difference in the idea of what a paladin 'should be'. If you cant work out a code you are both satisfied with, then the player should play something else.
I doubt a Paladin of Torag, would have anything against drinking.
He may, have something against not drinking, but that is for another discussion.
Paladins of Torag are social drinkers. If you have a drink then so shall he, but if you don't he will in Torag's honor just to start things off.
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Paladins of Torag are social drinkers. If you have a drink then so shall he, but if you don't he will in Torag's honor just to start things off.I doubt a Paladin of Torag, would have anything against drinking.
He may, have something against not drinking, but that is for another discussion.
and if the others still don't, he will drink for them. In honor of Torag for them. Then some more for himself...
This what I mean Rynjin, we've got a long moral debate of equally valid points of view. A true Paladin would not touch such a thing with a 10 foot pole, due to the severity of their good alignment.
Ah, that "New Paladin Thread" smell. Smells like napalm.
Right! Let's get down to business! I'm ready! I'm in a mood to get somethin' done, know what I mean?
Are you saying the Paladin should fall for being a spud lover?Were such a potato harvested from a farm, who's ownership had be transferred by an act of evil deceit, then such a potato would be considered symbolic of such evil, and not to be eaten.
...
Okay, where are the cameras?
Just be glad it was not a Paladin of Arshea.
Or a Paladin of Lymnieris with all the proper legal permissions going out and 'comforting' the city's lonely women for coin.
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The context of the barn, was one of work. A place to store beasts of burden, not a decadent horse brothel. And the poor could raise more, after he directly assists in the first. Guiding their hands as they hammer nails, and pull ropes.
A place to store beasts of burden, not a decadent horse brothel.
not a decadent horse brothel.
decadent horse brothel.
...
...
Let's get down to business!
TO DEFEAT
THE HUNSDID THEY SEND ME DAUGHTERS
WHEN I ASKED
FOR SONS
WHAT THE F&&@
DID I READ
PLEASE EXPLAIN
STALWART AS A PALADIN
RAISING BARNS ALL DAY
TOGETHER WE CAN RAISE THIS BARN, ONE TWO THREE FOUR
I JUST HAVE NO CLUE NOW
I SHOULD GO AWAY
I'M JUST SO CONFUSED
LIKE, WHAT THE F*%~
THIS THREAD IS REALLY STRANGE
I DON'T KNOW
WHAT THIS IS
PLEASE EXPLAIN
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Or men. We tend to cater to a wide range.Or a Paladin of Lymnieris with all the proper legal permissions going out and 'comforting' the city's lonely women for coin.Just be glad it was not a Paladin of Arshea.
Look, they got boy whores.
[cheerful]
Isn't that thoughtful?
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Or men. We tend to cater to a wide range.Or a Paladin of Lymnieris with all the proper legal permissions going out and 'comforting' the city's lonely women for coin.Just be glad it was not a Paladin of Arshea.
Look, they got boy whores.
[cheerful]
Isn't that thoughtful?
Also, many of us offer specials for couples.
We offer simultaneous marriage counseling as well.
If our clients aren't in a better place than they were when they came to us, we aren't doing our job.
Or men. We tend to cater to a wide range.Or a Paladin of Lymnieris with all the proper legal permissions going out and 'comforting' the city's lonely women for coin.Just be glad it was not a Paladin of Arshea.
Look, they got boy whores.
[cheerful]
Isn't that thoughtful?Also, many of us offer specials for couples.
We offer simultaneous marriage counseling as well.
If our clients aren't in a better place than they were when they came to us, we aren't doing our job.
I seriously want to be a Paladin of Lymnieris now.
Oh my!Or men. We tend to cater to a wide range.Just be glad it was not a Paladin of Arshea.Or a Paladin of Lymnieris with all the proper legal permissions going out and 'comforting' the city's lonely women for coin.
Yes! I know what my next paladin is going to be.
