I won't watch this. I'm tired of companies being PC and changing long standing characters. I hope it tanks completely!
See below for the problem with this attitude.
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Hey, Amazing Spider Man was pretty good. Better than the other Spider-man 1, actually (it...hasn't aged very well).
Sure, if you completely ignore the fact that Peter Parker isn't really Peter Parker; he's a cool skater dude who also happens to be brilliant and gets bitten by a radioactive spider.
The Prowler is dead? Aw, that bums me out, I loved the Prowler when I was kid. Hell, I bought his limited series. I think a good writer(and artist) could do a lot with him and Rocket Racer. Luke Cage was a B-grade hero before Bendis came along. I'd love to see them at least take some sort of Stark/Pym/Richards tech role for one of the big teams.
I like Battlestar, I have some Avengers Spotlight comics from the '80s where he fought Dr. Karl Malus, the Power Tools and the Powerbroker. I dug that storyline. So what do you think of Patriot?
I thought of some other heroes:
Black:
Brother Voodoo, Black Goliath, Rage, Debrii and Aegis from New Warriors, Bridge from Six Pack and I'm surprised no one including me thought of Night Thrasher or Blade.Latino:
Silverclaw, Skin, EchoThat's it for me, I stopped collecting comics by the early 00's. I'm not in the loop anymore with who has died or not. I imagine there's some more in the Avengers Initiative or the Xavier Institute books.
EDIT: What about Deathlok or Cardiac? I can't remember...
some updates...
Brother voodoo - technically dead, and will not be sorcerer supreme again, I don't think.
Black Goliath - really dead. Not coming back.
Rage-GREAT storyline out of the awful Civil War, but we're not going to be seeing him again for a while, I think.
Debrii - character has been in comics for about 9 issues, tops. Saw her exactly once in the background during civil war.
Aegis- maybe twelve issues? Had a story Arc dedicated to him, so that's something which was interesting.
Bridge - dead. Not coming back.
Night Thrasher - dead. Also not coming back. Also a bad take on Batman storyline slightly redeemed during the first new warriors run.
Silverclaw - actually don't know this one, which is the problem.
Skin-quite dead. Not coming back.
Echo - if it's the one I'm thinking about, also quite dead.
Deathlok - technically dead. Probably not coming back.
Cardiac - semi awesome character, still dead despite the seeming impossibility of it. Not coming back.
Whereas dc has problems introducing new minority characters, and Marvel has a problem with keeping them alive for every long and/or giving them screen time. DC sorta kinda had milestone comics, which came out at the same time as green Lantern mosaic, the comic that changed my life the most, in a moment of supreme irony, but that's about it.
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I won't watch this. I'm tired of companies being PC and changing long standing characters. I hope it tanks completely!See below for the problem with this attitude.
I don't really care about the race of the characters. If they were all black to start with, I would probably get pissed off if they suddenly retconned them to be white.
I like consistency, and when they pull this kind of bull**** my sensors start screaming.
I won't watch this. I'm tired of companies being PC and changing long standing characters. I hope it tanks completely!See below for the problem with this attitude.I don't really care about the race of the characters. If they were all black to start with, I would probably get pissed off if they suddenly retconned them to be white.
I like consistency, and when they pull this kind of bull**** my sensors start screaming.
That's a big if. There are no all black superhero teams, so that's a pretty safe statement. Not accusing you of racism or anything mind- i do get and understand the anger here, and share in part of it. I'm a fan of blind casting, and would have no problem with mixed racial and gender casting if this was stage theater, but this is a movie and you don't get more white guy than Johnny Storm, save for Steve Rogers.
I do wonder how people would react to a Blood Syndicate movie in general... Hm.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I won't watch this. I'm tired of companies being PC and changing long standing characters. I hope it tanks completely!See below for the problem with this attitude.I don't really care about the race of the characters. If they were all black to start with, I would probably get pissed off if they suddenly retconned them to be white.
I like consistency, and when they pull this kind of bull**** my sensors start screaming.
That's a big if. There are no all black superhero teams, so that's a pretty safe statement. Not accusing you of racism or anything mind- i do get and understand the anger here, and share in part of it. I'm a fan of blind casting, and would have no problem with mixed racial and gender casting if this was stage theater, but this is a movie and you don't get more white guy than Johnny Storm, save for Steve Rogers.
I do wonder how people would react to a Blood Syndicate movie in general... Hm.
I don't know about Blood Syndicate, but I'd love for a Static movie.
As for a 'black Reed Richards' I nominate This guy.
Oh, just realized something, as for 'ultimate fantastic four' The second movie was UFF, complete with Gal-ac-tus and a speech from the comic.
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Precisely. Peter Parker is supposed to be much more ungainly geek than pretty boy hipster. The new one has Spider-Man's powers, but in many of the ways that really matter, he's not remotely Spider-Man.Sure, if you completely ignore the fact that Peter Parker isn't really Peter Parker; he's a cool skater dude who also happens to be brilliant and gets bitten by a radioactive spider.Hey, Amazing Spider Man was pretty good. Better than the other Spider-man 1, actually (it...hasn't aged very well).
He's better than Toby McGuire's version, who spent the vast majority of the trilogy teetering on the edge of suicidal depression, and was basically a stalker.
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I don't know about Blood Syndicate, but I'd love for a Static movie.
As for a 'black Reed Richards' I nominate This guy.
Oh, just realized something, as for 'ultimate fantastic four' The second movie was UFF, complete with Gal-ac-tus and a speech from the comic.
I know! Which was what made me realize just how bad the idea of making them all teens could wind up being. In the comic, 'the speech' worked, once, because Reed was a teen & every teen has at least one moment when they are petulant & self-absorbed, it's how they learn not to be petulant & self-absorbed. In the movie, when he was supposedly a successful, capable, renowned figure; petulant & self-absorbed really does not work.
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Not even close. He's a smirking little twerp, with powers, the pretty blonde, super-scientist/spy/whatever parents, and pretty much everything the self-entitled post-pubescent modern viewer wants in his wish-fulfillment. If, at the beginning, Parker himself is cooler-than-thou, he's not Spider-Man. That's not an alter-ego. That's the same guy with a mask on, which misses the entire freakin' point.He's better than Toby McGuire's version, who spent the vast majority of the trilogy teetering on the edge of suicidal depression, and was basically a stalker.Precisely. Peter Parker is supposed to be much more ungainly geek than pretty boy hipster. The new one has Spider-Man's powers, but in many of the ways that really matter, he's not remotely Spider-Man.Sure, if you completely ignore the fact that Peter Parker isn't really Peter Parker; he's a cool skater dude who also happens to be brilliant and gets bitten by a radioactive spider.Hey, Amazing Spider Man was pretty good. Better than the other Spider-man 1, actually (it...hasn't aged very well).
Weren't Peter's parents spies anyway? Or am I remembering something wrong from one of the animated series? Also not sure what about skateboards makes you cool I had one as a kid and I was the opposite of cool.
He's better than Toby McGuire's version, who spent the vast majority of the trilogy teetering on the edge of suicidal depression, and was basically a stalker.Precisely. Peter Parker is supposed to be much more ungainly geek than pretty boy hipster. The new one has Spider-Man's powers, but in many of the ways that really matter, he's not remotely Spider-Man.Sure, if you completely ignore the fact that Peter Parker isn't really Peter Parker; he's a cool skater dude who also happens to be brilliant and gets bitten by a radioactive spider.Hey, Amazing Spider Man was pretty good. Better than the other Spider-man 1, actually (it...hasn't aged very well).
Oh this so much. Yeah the Andrew Garfield Spiderman tends a bit more towards hipsterdom, but at least he is a superhero that actually enjoys having powers and captures the sarcasm/joking nature of the comic Peter Parker. Toby McGuire's version was pretty damn joyless. We have enough comic book movies with heaping doses of gravitas that Spiderman doesn't need to join the ranks.
My only issue with the Amazing Spiderman was that the first movies were pretty faithful to the original origin story, and the director of the reboot felt he had to deviate to keep it different, which means stupid things like never getting the "with great power comes great responsibility" line, or botching his uncle's death. and there was some stuff that almost got left in the finished movie that would have made it far far worse
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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This guy would be way way better
For an older Mr. Fantastic, sure. :-)
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If, at the beginning, Parker himself is cooler-than-thou, he's not Spider-Man.
1. Peter got his ass kicked by the school jock. That doesn't scream "cooler-than-thou" to me.
2. Do you really want a 1960's style nerd randomly plopped into a 2010's setting? What constitutes a "nerd/geek" has changed pretty massively since 1963.3. Peter as an uber-nerd only lasted 30 issues or so of the original comic, and he wasn't ever that kind of uber-nerd in Ultimate Spider-Man (which ASM is heavily influenced by).
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This guy would be way way betterFor an older Mr. Fantastic, sure. :-)
What, they're gonna be kids? I'm not touching this movie with a ten foot pole.
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Sure, if you completely ignore the fact that Peter Parker isn't really Peter Parker; he's a cool skater dude who also happens to be brilliant and gets bitten by a radioactive spider.Hey, Amazing Spider Man was pretty good. Better than the other Spider-man 1, actually (it...hasn't aged very well).
I didn't see a problem with that.
That one had a bit of a good reason for changing things up (going for basically the same story as the first would result in "we've SEEN THIS MOVIE ARGLE BARGLE"), and it worked out pretty well for them.
It's not like they ruined the character with the change, he was essentially the same guy (brilliant scientific mind, bit of a social outcast, but in a more normal way. I have never seen a person actually treated like Peter and all these Hollwood Nerds are supposedly treated), but with some new character wrinkles to help him stand out.
It changed nothing of substance (so it gave him a new hobby, so what?), but allowed sufficient change that the movie felt just fresh enough audiences wouldn't leave in the middle because they'd seen it already.
He was Peter Parker.
He just wasn't [nasally voice]"Only a SCIENCE MAJOR could do X!"[/nasally voice] Parker.
Not even close. He's a smirking little twerp, with powers, the pretty blonde, super-scientist/spy/whatever parents, and pretty much everything the self-entitled post-pubescent modern viewer wants in his wish-fulfillment.
Mmmmm...pretty sure the spy parents thing wasn't actually a change.
If, at the beginning, Parker himself is cooler-than-thou, he's not Spider-Man. That's not an alter-ego. That's the same guy with a mask on, which misses the entire freakin' point.
I'm actually POSITIVE that the "entire freakin' point" of Spiderman was to create a comic book character teens could actually relate to (most, if not all, superheroes at the time were big, chiseled jaw grown men).
Teens of this day and age don't relate to "poor put upon Peter Parker", because nobody is treated like that for being a geek any more.
They CAN relate to "Normal teenager Peter Parker, with the brilliant scientific mind"...because that's how a lot of intelligent people are and are finally being portrayed that way. Your intelligence doesn't define you. You can have other hobbies besides SCIENCE!, video games, and comics.
Even "cool" hobbies like skateboarding.
This is a good thing, and a good message to send. Character evolution is necessary to remain relevant.
And he's not exactly "cooler than thou" either unless you have somehow achieved being the stereotypical 60's-80's high school nerd. He gets picked on at school, just in a less blatantly unrealistic way.
Precisely. Peter Parker is supposed to be much more ungainly geek than pretty boy hipster. The new one has Spider-Man's powers, but in many of the ways that really matter, he's not remotely Spider-Man.Sure, if you completely ignore the fact that Peter Parker isn't really Peter Parker; he's a cool skater dude who also happens to be brilliant and gets bitten by a radioactive spider.Hey, Amazing Spider Man was pretty good. Better than the other Spider-man 1, actually (it...hasn't aged very well).
Wait...when have shate boarding hipsters have ever been cool?
Wait...when have shate boarding hipsters have ever been cool?Precisely. Peter Parker is supposed to be much more ungainly geek than pretty boy hipster. The new one has Spider-Man's powers, but in many of the ways that really matter, he's not remotely Spider-Man.Sure, if you completely ignore the fact that Peter Parker isn't really Peter Parker; he's a cool skater dude who also happens to be brilliant and gets bitten by a radioactive spider.Hey, Amazing Spider Man was pretty good. Better than the other Spider-man 1, actually (it...hasn't aged very well).
The 90's into the early 2000's.
Nah, hipsters by definition can't be cool. Once they become cool they cease being hip and must change what they do. The whole point is to play up your outsider status.
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Back to the Fantastic Four, someone above mentioned the possibility of Doom as a woman. As a long time fan, I think that might actually work ok.
Originally Doom hates Reed basically because he is a big arrogant stick in the mud who can't stand the thought of having an equal.
As a woman you could introduce a spurned lover vibe to the relationship. Reed picks Sue over Victoria... :) ... and that is the core of the conflict. You could still include all of the arrogance and intellectual competition.
Couldn't be worse than the movies' previous take with a non-smart Doom as evil executive with superpowers.
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Back to the Fantastic Four, someone above mentioned the possibility of Doom as a woman. As a long time fan, I think that might actually work ok.
Originally Doom hates Reed basically because he is a big arrogant stick in the mud who can't stand the thought of having an equal.
Hey, don't talk like that about the guy. He is actually a really nice one, once you get over the fact that he's every bit the hipster that the new spider-man is*
*
I suppose its a matter of expectation vs. end result. I hear "Another Fantastic Four movie in the works!" and I think classic Fantastic Four. I don't think Ultimate series because I stopped collecting comics way before they were released. My exposure to new/alternate storylines, origins, etc. comes mainly from animated releases. Had the initial reports mentioned the storyline before showing me all these babyfaces, my initial reaction might have been different. That might be the same for others as well.
As for changing the ethnicity of established characters, how about instead we see more of the heroes already out there? Falcon shows up in Winter Soldier, which is cool. Luke Cage is getting his own series on Netflix, also cool. Now where's my Black Panther movie? I'd love to see T'Challa get to the silver screen and join the Avengers.
I have nothing against Falcon,but I have a hard time seeing him as cool. He's Cap's weird sidekick. I respect the hell out of him for turning his life around and being a social worker super hero, but....no, he isn't cool. He talks to birds. He's WEIRD, but not cool. When did he become cool?
T'Challa on the silver screen? No problem, but I do wonder which aspect they're going to play up- black batman with a different animal or black tony stark who is king of a country instead of a CEO? He's another character who's had issues standing on his own without semi-unfair analogues to other, more popular(read- white) heroes.
black marvel heroes is easy Luke Cage, Patriot, Falcon, Black Panther, Storm. Black Panther has even been a member of the Fantastic Four
but the only latino I can come up with off the top of my head is Arachne
Miguel O'Hara (Spider-Man 2099) had a Latina mother. The Tarantula was Latino, but he was a bad guy.
Depends on whether or not he could pull it off.
Yeah, Black Panther is one of the characters that's basically defined by his race in certain aspects.
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I don't care that Johnny Storm is black. There's nothing about Johnny Storm that requires he be white, if the Storm family is a mixed family that's cool too.
I do care that the Ever-Loving Blue Eyed Thing, terror of Yancy Street is a skinny british dude. "I do believe it is clobbering time old chaps." Doesn't have the same ring to it.
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I really hope they make a Black Panther movie! He has been a favourite of mine for forty years.
If they do, would it be okay to cast a white actor to play the Black Panther?
I guess it would be but the character would need heavy restructuring to work. Or the enirety of Wakanda.
I'd prefer he stays black. T'chala is a very very cool guy.
Back to the Fantastic Four, someone above mentioned the possibility of Doom as a woman. As a long time fan, I think that might actually work ok.
Originally Doom hates Reed basically because he is a big arrogant stick in the mud who can't stand the thought of having an equal.
As a woman you could introduce a spurned lover vibe to the relationship. Reed picks Sue over Victoria... :) ... and that is the core of the conflict. You could still include all of the arrogance and intellectual competition.
Couldn't be worse than the movies' previous take with a non-smart Doom as evil executive with superpowers.
Changing Doom into a spurred lover...is pretty damn cliche. That would be my biggest worry if they change Doom to a woman. Trying to tie a love angle into it. If they kept it an academic rivalry with no romance angle, sure...
The other problem would be they would probably cast an attractive female, which would probably result in a costume redesign like never having Doom with his mask or something. I don't want to see sexy Doom thank you very much.
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Back to the Fantastic Four, someone above mentioned the possibility of Doom as a woman. As a long time fan, I think that might actually work ok.
Originally Doom hates Reed basically because he is a big arrogant stick in the mud who can't stand the thought of having an equal.
As a woman you could introduce a spurned lover vibe to the relationship. Reed picks Sue over Victoria... :) ... and that is the core of the conflict. You could still include all of the arrogance and intellectual competition.
Couldn't be worse than the movies' previous take with a non-smart Doom as evil executive with superpowers.
Changing Doom into a spurred lover...is pretty damn cliche. That would be my biggest worry if they change Doom to a woman. Trying to tie a love angle into it. If they kept it an academic rivalry with no romance angle, sure...
The other problem would be they would probably cast an attractive female, which would probably result in a costume redesign like never having Doom with his mask or something. I don't want to see sexy Doom thank you very much.
BUT, what if doom was spurned by Sue? Huh?
I don't care that Johnny Storm is black. There's nothing about Johnny Storm that requires he be white, if the Storm family is a mixed family that's cool too.
I do care that the Ever-Loving Blue Eyed Thing, terror of Yancy Street is a skinny british dude. "I do believe it is clobbering time old chaps." Doesn't have the same ring to it.
Actors have been known to go to these people called dialect coaches to learn to speak with different accents than their own.
Or sometimes they change their accent on their own - it's not like you can tell that Patrick Stewart's from Barnsley.
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As a woman you could introduce a spurned lover vibe to the relationship.
That's not the crux of their current rivalry? Man have I been reading those comics wrong.
I don't care that Johnny Storm is black. There's nothing about Johnny Storm that requires he be white, if the Storm family is a mixed family that's cool too.
I do care that the Ever-Loving Blue Eyed Thing, terror of Yancy Street is a skinny british dude. "I do believe it is clobbering time old chaps." Doesn't have the same ring to it.
Now I'm going to be chortling all day....
I wouldn't mind if DOOM was a woman, I would mind if Doom didn't speak with Shakesperean gravitas.
Yeah, Doom is defined a lot by the methods and the mindset. Lawful Evil to a T. And the mask, in a sense. Anybody can wear the mask and the green cloak, and it's iconic.
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I don't care that Johnny Storm is black. There's nothing about Johnny Storm that requires he be white, if the Storm family is a mixed family that's cool too.
I do care that the Ever-Loving Blue Eyed Thing, terror of Yancy Street is a skinny british dude. "I do believe it is clobbering time old chaps." Doesn't have the same ring to it.
Actors have been known to go to these people called dialect coaches to learn to speak with different accents than their own.
Or sometimes they change their accent on their own - it's not like you can tell that Patrick Stewart's from Barnsley.
Hugh Laurie is an amazing example of this. I had no idea he wasn't American while watching 6 seasons of House.
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I don't care that Johnny Storm is black. There's nothing about Johnny Storm that requires he be white, if the Storm family is a mixed family that's cool too.
I do care that the Ever-Loving Blue Eyed Thing, terror of Yancy Street is a skinny british dude. "I do believe it is clobbering time old chaps." Doesn't have the same ring to it.
Actors have been known to go to these people called dialect coaches to learn to speak with different accents than their own.
Or sometimes they change their accent on their own - it's not like you can tell that Patrick Stewart's from Barnsley.
Mirfield.
Not Barnsley, Mirfield.
(I used to live there.)
I don't care either.
I do think that adding diversity "just cuz" can be just as bad as purposefully not having any diversity at all.
I don't care that Johnny Storm is black. There's nothing about Johnny Storm that requires he be white, if the Storm family is a mixed family that's cool too.
I do care that the Ever-Loving Blue Eyed Thing, terror of Yancy Street is a skinny british dude. "I do believe it is clobbering time old chaps." Doesn't have the same ring to it.
Actors have been known to go to these people called dialect coaches to learn to speak with different accents than their own.
Or sometimes they change their accent on their own - it's not like you can tell that Patrick Stewart's from Barnsley.
Mirfield.
Not Barnsley, Mirfield.
(I used to live there.)
Close enough accent-wise. ;)
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Close enough accent-wise. ;)I don't care that Johnny Storm is black. There's nothing about Johnny Storm that requires he be white, if the Storm family is a mixed family that's cool too.
I do care that the Ever-Loving Blue Eyed Thing, terror of Yancy Street is a skinny british dude. "I do believe it is clobbering time old chaps." Doesn't have the same ring to it.
Actors have been known to go to these people called dialect coaches to learn to speak with different accents than their own.
Or sometimes they change their accent on their own - it's not like you can tell that Patrick Stewart's from Barnsley.
Mirfield.
Not Barnsley, Mirfield.
(I used to live there.)
BLASPHEMY!!!
: )
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My big problem with the combination of a Black Johnny Storm & the idea that the re-boot is going with the Ultimate Fantastic Four premise of them all being teens is pretty simple. Johnny Storm in Ultimate Fantastic Four is written as well below the curve, intelligence-wise of the the students at the institute & comes across pretty much as only there because his dad runs it.
Anyone see where I'm going with this?..
Now if they had Reed Richards as Black, that would be seven different kinds of awesome. Enough so that I could actually overlook my knee-jerk reaction to 'yet-another' Black-guy-with-a-hot-Blonde interracial pairing. Bonus points if they could play him as a kind of young Neal Degrassi Tyson/'Science is Awesome! vibe...
My thoughts exactly. I think it's kind of insulting that they made Johnny the token black guy.