How much would a continuous ring with a 1st level mage armor spell cost?
Any ideas?
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Outside of PFS it should cost 16K or 24K. Bracers cost 16k, but as an alternate slot it might cost 50% more.
Per custom magic item rules it would cost 2000 GP.
Continuous effect (Level 1 spell X caster level 1) X 2000 = 2000gp.
Good luck getting it past your GM.
Pricing items is more an art than a science. In order to price something like this, you have to compare it to other items with similar functions. You never want to price a new item that provides exactly the same benefit as the old one cheaper than the original. The closest item is bracers of armor +4, which costs 16,000 gp. Also, because it is in an odd slot, it probably should cost more. Take a look at the ring of force shield for comparison. It provides half the benefit of the shield spell (+2 shield bonus) and also doesn’t block magic missiles, but costs over 4 times what a normal continuous level 1 spell should.
In lieu of the above information, I would price the item at at least 24,000 gp.
Ring slot is NOT an odd slot for a protection item. 16,000 is the appropriate price for this item.
The reason ring of force shield us more expensive is because it provides a more expensive bonus. Shield bonuses cost more per the magic item creation guidelines than armor bonuses. Because they stack with regular martial armor while armor bonuses do not. Same for natural armor and deflection.
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Although many go ahead and assume that Bracers of Armor +4 is essentially what it is, there is another method about this:
So you want to create a ring that gives an Armor Bonus to AC? From scratch as a "Just Armor" effect, it can be done quite easily and reasonably, without requiring the actual spell effects.
The Magic Item Creation table cites that an AC Bonus for a type other than Deflection is 2,500 time the Bonus squared. If we take a +4 Armor Bonus to AC (a type that is separate from Deflection) as a property, the cost for that is 40,000 Gold (2,500 X 16).
Of course, that is a much more expensive method, it is also much more balanced and in-line towards the main effect you're looking for (+4 Armor Bonus to AC).
To be honest, it is actually much cheaper (and more effective) to simply have a charge-activation Mage Armor ring, since the only times you should be having it is during combat anyway.
We'll use the Spell Effect table this time; the equation we use is the Use-Activated/Continuous, which is 1 X 1 X 2,000, which is 2,000. However, since the effect we're using is a minute/level duration to be made continuous, this doubles the total cost, to 4,000. Now we divide it by Y/5, where Y is the number of charges it possesses each day.
For a 1/day Mage Armor, which lasts 1 minute (most combats are 3-4 rounds anyway), that equals (2,000 X 2)/5, or 800 Gold Pieces total. Considering a Pearl of Power is 1,000 Gold Pieces, this Use-Activation Mage Armor Ring is in line with the scaling abilities of similar effects (a Pearl of Power, a slotless item, would essentially allow you to choose any 1st level spell to recast, including Mage Armor), and is therefore a much more balanced approach.
We'll use the Spell Effect table this time; the equation we use is the Use-Activated/Continuous, which is 1 X 1 X 2,000, which is 2,000. However, since the effect we're using is a minute/level duration to be made continuous, this doubles the total cost, to 4,000. Now we divide it by Y/5, where Y is the number of charges it possesses each day.
For a 1/day Mage Armor, which lasts 1 minute (most combats are 3-4 rounds anyway), that equals (2,000 X 2)/5, or 800 Gold Pieces total. Considering a Pearl of Power is 1,000 Gold Pieces, this Use-Activation Mage Armor Ring is in line with the scaling abilities of similar effects (a Pearl of Power, a slotless item, would essentially allow you to choose any 1st level spell to recast, including Mage Armor), and is therefore a much more balanced approach.
Actually Mage Armor has a duration of hours per lvl, so the price isn't doubled.
And an item like this is command word rather than use-activated, which affect the price.
So per the rules, a 1/day Mage Armor that last for 1 hours (enough to prebuff before a fight, and maybe get through a good portion of a dungeon), would cost: (1800*1*1)/5 = 360.
So significantly cheaper than the pearl of power, making it availiable sooner. And while it is always better to have your own wizard cast it (in terms of duration), this item would be quite good for someone who doesn't have a friendly MA casting arcane caster in his group.
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Per custom magic item rules it would cost 2000 GP.
Continuous effect (Level 1 spell X caster level 1) X 2000 = 2000gp.Good luck getting it past your GM.
Common mistake. You are overlooking 2 things.
1) these quotes:
Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magic items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide.
The correct way to price an item is by comparing its abilities to similar items (see Magic Item Gold Piece Values), and only if there are no similar items should you use the pricing formulas to determine an approximate price for the item. If you discover a loophole that allows an item to have an ability for a much lower price than is given for a comparable item in the Core Rulebook, the GM should require using the price of the Core Rulebook item, as that is the standard cost for such an effect. Most of these loopholes stem from trying to get unlimited uses per day of a spell effect from "command word" or "use-activated or continuous" descriptions.
2) this line of the "Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values" table:
Armor bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared × 1,000 gp
(Darksol, the spell Mage Armor give a armor bonus, so it can't be stacked with normal armor, that is the reason why we should use that value and not "AC bonus (other)")
Note that the mage armor ring is the equivalent of a +4 ghost touch armor bonus, so a +7 armor enhancement. 49,000 gp.
Comparing it to bracers of armor is much more favourable, the first step to take and the way to go.
Thanks everyone!
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mcruggiero, consider (strongly) just buying a wand of Mage Armor. For 750gp, you get 50 charges (and could possibly find a less than full wand on a chronicle, if you are actually talking about PFS).
The cost of this is far less than a permanent item. Sure, there are going to be times that you might be without your Mage Armor, but 1) It doesn't take up a slot and 2) if in a dangerous environment, just recast it every hour.
If you aren't a caster, you can probably find someone that does have it on his spell list, or someone that can use UMD on it.
750gp is WAY less than 24000!!!
I was just talking about this yesterday.
I'm not trying to accuse you of gaming the system, I just thought this an interesting coincidence.
Common mistake. You are overlooking 2 things.
I know that these are guidelines, but there's one thing I hate about the pricing of magic items: inconsistency. Apparently, you can put a 1st-level spell like Disguise Self in a hat (and ignore the x1,5 price factor for duration), but I can't do it with another spell cause there's already an item with a similar effect that is way more expensive.
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inconsistency.
can't do it with another spell cause there's already an item with a similar effect that is way more expensive.
There is no inconsistency.
Think of it this way:
If everyone could have a choice between an iPhone/HTC One/Samsung G5 or a generic phone for more money. Who would take the generic?
All spell effects are not the same just as all phones are not the same.
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One of the problems we ran into in early 3.0 was the wizard sacrificing a level to give everyone shield items for 2k. Suddenly everyone's AC was up by 4 and magic missile was useless against us. When 3.5 came out one of the clauses was that if the item was similar to another item or if it increased or added a bonus or provided one then you had to price it according to the list and not the based on the spell used.
Now you have bracers for 16k that provide an armor bonus and you want a ring that provides the same armor bonus in a different slot. 16k seems appropriate but I would consider can you upgrade it? Bracer can be but what about your ring? If not I might allow a small price reduction of 10 -- 15% on it depending on the generousity of your gm.
As to the Hat, it doesn't replicate any other item or provide a bonus to an ability other than disguise, but with a strong caveat (magical, illusionary) making it's cost appropriate.
It's pretty damn clear that 16K is not the appropriate price. Not for this, not for the +4 Bracers of Armor.
It's pretty damn clear that 16K is not the appropriate price. Not for this, not for the +4 Bracers of Armor.
What would you suggest and why?
It's pretty damn clear that 16K is not the appropriate price. Not for this, not for the +4 Bracers of Armor.What would you suggest and why?
One idea is to charge "5 wands of Mage Armor" for it; That's 3.750. It seems a bit much, because I never seem to run out even the first wand I buy. Another is "1. level pearl of power + one shot from a lesser Extend rod". That's 2.000, and I dunno, it seems a little low. 2½-3K seems about right; at that level I'd still never, ever buy it, but I probably wouldn't sell it if I found it.
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I think what Pupsocket is getting at is that no one ever buys a bracers of armor +1-4; it's much more efficient to have an arcane caster simply provide a casting of mage armor in some way.
I'll admit the only time I use the lesser bracers is when I get one from NPC treasure.
And while people do buy +5 and better bracers, they tend to come in priority after a +3 amulet and +3 ring due to pricing.
We'll use the Spell Effect table this time; the equation we use is the Use-Activated/Continuous, which is 1 X 1 X 2,000, which is 2,000. However, since the effect we're using is a minute/level duration to be made continuous, this doubles the total cost, to 4,000. Now we divide it by Y/5, where Y is the number of charges it possesses each day.
For a 1/day Mage Armor, which lasts 1 minute (most combats are 3-4 rounds anyway), that equals (2,000 X 2)/5, or 800 Gold Pieces total. Considering a Pearl of Power is 1,000 Gold Pieces, this Use-Activation Mage Armor Ring is in line with the scaling abilities of similar effects (a Pearl of Power, a slotless item, would essentially allow you to choose any 1st level spell to recast, including Mage Armor), and is therefore a much more balanced approach.
Actually Mage Armor has a duration of hours per lvl, so the price isn't doubled.
And an item like this is command word rather than use-activated, which affect the price.
So per the rules, a 1/day Mage Armor that last for 1 hours (enough to prebuff before a fight, and maybe get through a good portion of a dungeon), would cost: (1800*1*1)/5 = 360.
So significantly cheaper than the pearl of power, making it availiable sooner. And while it is always better to have your own wizard cast it (in terms of duration), this item would be quite good for someone who doesn't have a friendly MA casting arcane caster in his group.
Good point on the type used, since use-activated would imply it is an at-will ability.
However, a Pearl of Power can be any arcane spell on the caster's spell list that is equal to or below the spell level of the Pearl of power.
Essentially specifying its effects to a single spell, of which it does not adjust its caster level (and duration/dispel DC, etc.), sets it about right in terms of actual usefulness for the gold cost.
A 1/day CL 1 Mage Armor Ring for 360 gold pieces is much cheaper than a Pearl of Power, and is also a lot less useful when you gain levels, making it valuable only as a low-level item. It sure beats the whole 3,000 gold pieces at-will version in terms of power to price ratio.
@ Diego Rossi: While the intent of the "other" clause is supposed to apply that to types other than Shield and Armor, there are items with actual Armor and Shield bonuses to AC that are Magic Items, which by RAW, would fall under the "other" category. I am also fairly certain these same items would use that formula as a start, considering it is an actual Armor or Shield Bonus, not an Enhancement to an existing Armor/Shield Bonus, which cannot be applied to an item that doesn't grant one to begin with (unless it states otherwise).
