Hey folks,
I fully understand that this is an overdone concept, but since I usually play a full caster class in every game (either Oracle, Cleric, Wizard or Witch) I am challenging myself to play something different.
So I started thinking about melee builds for an upcoming low-magic campaign my DM decided to try out. We've cut the full-caster classes from availability to PCs, and are making do with a few modified rules to make healing less of an issue without a cleric/oracle.
What I've been trying to build is a competent character in these areas:
1. Solid melee combatant, hopefully a TWF'er since I rarely play Melee and enjoy this type of combat, I'd like to try to fit it in.
2. A good amount of social skills (specifically Bluff, Diplomacy and Sense Motive) and enough Knowledge (Local and Nobility) to get along with pretty much anyone.
3. Use Magic Device should be in the mix, in case we find some good items (Jarlaxle loves his magic items)
4. Stipulations are - Core Rulebook races only (modified via Advanced Race Guide is acceptable). No full caster classes. No 3rd party (without the GM allowing specifics, and even then it is unlikely). Stat array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 12, 11.
I've been toying with Lore Warden, Archaeologist, even Samurai, but I can't seem to come up with a build that won't get destroyed in combat or fall short in social situations. Therefore I do not have a build to post and ask for critiques, but, rather, would like your feedback or advice on how to go about creating a character as dynamic as Jarlaxle.
Thanks in advance.
Have you considered a rogue? They tend to have a good amount of social skills and do benefit from twf.
I find that Bard, Inquisitor, and Alchemist fit all those roles nicely.
You may want to customize them with a variant also.
Jarlaxle is a great character!
I would probably go with a Bard build for him.
I would take Nimble fingers, keen mind as a trait to allow disable device as a class skill too.
I am currently playing a Bard[Archivist] myself and I am really enjoying it. It is my first ever Bard build.
As far as abilities go: Str 13 Dex 15 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 11 Cha 14 plus racial would go to Cha. I would go human or 1/2 elf since Drow is out.
I like human better because I would swap out bonus feat for Focused Study to gain the skill focuses.
I also like the Silvered-tongue racial trait too.
I am curious as to what you come up with, so please post it here.
TY!
I find that Bard, Inquisitor, and Alchemist fit all those roles nicely.
You may want to customize them with a variant also.Jarlaxle is a great character!
I would probably go with a Bard build for him.
I would take Nimble fingers, keen mind as a trait to allow disable device as a class skill too.
I am currently playing a Bard[Archivist] myself and I am really enjoying it. It is my first ever Bard build.As far as abilities go: Str 13 Dex 15 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 11 Cha 14 plus racial would go to Cha. I would go human or 1/2 elf since Drow is out.
I like human better because I would swap out bonus feat for Focused Study to gain the skill focuses.
I also like the Silvered-tongue racial trait too.I am curious as to what you come up with, so please post it here.
TY!
Sure! I will post one as soon as I feel I have a good grasp on what to do with him.
And I agree, both Focused Study and Silver-tongued look great. In fact, this game is already underway and I have taken Human - Silver Tongued. The DM is being generous and allowing us the opportunity to swap out aspects of or flat out change the character before our next session. He's a good fella that way. :)
I will review Rogue and Bard and see what I can do with them both. I appreciate the feedback so far everyone.
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Sounds like a Paladin could be up your alley. Good Charisma for Diplomacy and UMD, definitely a solid melee fighter...
If you want TWF I would go Ranger. Sadly not a lot of the skills you mentioned are class skills, but traits can help with that and you'll have enough skill points to throw around to make it work.
Ah, but I think best would be a strength-based Ninja. You get Cha, skill points, easy UMD, and reasonable combat ability. (Stay away from TWF for ninja/rogue!)
Jarlaxle?
BBT - it's this guy: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Jarlaxle_Baenre
Ah. One of the many Drizzt-likes.
Are you going to be evil?
He's like Drizz't, but interesting. ;)
I'm playing him chaotic neutral. Sort of like a rebellious yet debonair musketeer, a freedom fighter, and a collector of magical trinkets. No real compunction to always choose the "good act", but rather the best suited to his needs and the needs of the mission.
I would multiclass him. He was also a very good fighter(combatant).
Bard/Ranger(guide archetype)
I think he had fighter levels in the books, but the lose of skill points would hurt the concept.
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So, going from NE to CN? More Drizzt than I expected. ;)
I was going to suggest Antipaladin, but with this alignment change, I am going to suggest Archeologist Bard or Magus.
If you go Magus, I suggest nabbing the Student of Philosophy and Pragmatic Activator traits. This will allow you to use Intelligence for Use Magic Device, and Bluff/Diplomacy checks.
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Ah. One of the many Drizzt-likes.
Are you going to be evil?
He's like Drizz't, but interesting. ;)
I'm playing him chaotic neutral. Sort of like a rebellious yet debonair musketeer, a freedom fighter, and a collector of magical trinkets. No real compunction to always choose the "good act", but rather the best suited to his needs and the needs of the mission.
Drizzt is very interesting with his semi self-loathing. He is one of the more fleshed our chars and I find him quite intriguing (that aside, I do believe buerenor (I forget how to spell the poor old dwarfs name) is one of my favorite.
I agree jarlaxle is CN-NN in the later books he becomes much more good natured (the neverwinter series, which I find odd, yet intriguing.)
I have always seen him as a rogue. A social rogue with Maxed UMD. he would never stand to drizzt in a battle, but due to his many little gadgets and items and his connections he is much greater some would argue. (and to be honest, he isn't half bad in a fight)
I suggest being a skillmonkey/social rogue with Dex as your only real phy. stat.
I agree that I would stay away from Rogue.
You can be a better "rogue" by going Bard[Archivist].
BBT - yes indeed... more Drizz't than Drizz't. ;)
I agree that Archaeologist fits the bill pretty well, but can you make a TWF Archaeologist that doesn't just suck up your feats? I've tried a magus before, for a short time, and found them just a little too one-trick-pony (might have been the fact I did the shocking grasp trick).
I do understand the general distaste for rogues around here, especially as a full progression, but what about a dip for a fighter? Maybe 3 levels total, getting some Sneak Attack and another feat via Combat Trick?
Bard (Archaeologist, with Fate's Favored) into Ranger (Guide Archetype) sounds like it has potential as well. I wouldn't be too worried about the loss of spell casting, maybe picking up Versatile Performance and Maestro of the Society trait could make up for the lack of rounds/day on Archaeologist's Luck?
Pathfinder generally penalizes you for multi-classing, but might it be the only way to make the character work?
Rorek - I don't think I want to play a support role so much as a combatant who has a role outside of combat as well. If that is technically defined as support, then maybe Bard is the way to go.
The Forgotten Realms Rulebook has him as vanilla Fighter 21. Since he by his UMD the class doesn't matter that much.
I'd agree on Alchemist, maybe Vivisectionist(you could flavor your extracts into magic gadgets), Lore Warden, Ranger or Arcane Duelist Bard.
Maybe you could also look at the Investigator or Slayer class from the Advanced Players Guide Playtest.
personally I have never seen anything but jary as a rogue, though I guess fighter could work.. either way. Do what you feel ta be right lol.
I could see adding Rogue as a dip, maybe three levels, but I can't see going any further than that.
Why not ninja? Great excuse for charisma, TWF, great stealth. It's unfortunate you're so limited in races, because a drow would actually be awesome for this.
Ah, I'm not being terribly helpful am I.
Edit: although I've never seen jarlaxle as a particularly skilled combatant (compared to drizzt & artemis entreri). He's a clever combatant, that uses all the advantages on hand. So rogue/ninja type would fit well in my mind.
Tactician Fighter
more skill focused than you expect a fighter to be, plans to out-think or out-maneuver you in combat rather than over power you.
This post intrigued me so I looked into it myself.
Jarlaxle was extremely deadly with his throwing daggers. Often against flat footed opponents. This would suggest possible sneak attack and clearly high initiative. This would point towards ninja (which would be better than rogue). Flurry of stars (throwing knives) would fit nicely as ninja tricks
Jarlaxle was extremely confident, charismatic and never shut up. He inspired confidence in others with his words and charisma which points toward bard.
Both classes are 3/4 BAB and high skill points.
Jarlaxle was nearly irresistable to females. This would point towards Charming, Fast Talker or Convincing Liar traits.
It is a tough call. Ninja is going to way up his damage where Bard will indicate his high charisma and spellcasting abilities.
In the spirit of Jarlaxle, which gladly let others do the fighting for him (he would unleash Artemis often to do the dirty work), Im leaning towards Bard. Ninja is very much an aggressive go kill class. And a typically shadowy quiet class. You can still do the throwing daggers with bard easy enough, just not as much damage. And TWF technically only requires 1 feat. You do not have to go all the way up the chain.
Jarlaxle the character was built around confidence and bravo. It was only in the sellsword series that he really showed his fighting competence.
This post intrigued me so I looked into it myself.
Jarlaxle was extremely deadly with his throwing daggers. Often against flat footed opponents. This would suggest possible sneak attack and clearly high initiative. This would point towards ninja (which would be better than rogue). Flurry of stars (throwing knives) would fit nicely as ninja tricks
Jarlaxle was extremely confident, charismatic and never shut up. He inspired confidence in others with his words and charisma which points toward bard.
Both classes are 3/4 BAB and high skill points.
Jarlaxle was nearly irresistable to females. This would point towards Charming, Fast Talker or Convincing Liar traits.
It is a tough call. Ninja is going to way up his damage where Bard will indicate his high charisma and spellcasting abilities.
In the spirit of Jarlaxle, which gladly let others do the fighting for him (he would unleash Artemis often to do the dirty work), Im leaning towards Bard. Ninja is very much an aggressive go kill class. And a typically shadowy quiet class. You can still do the throwing daggers with bard easy enough, just not as much damage. And TWF technically only requires 1 feat. You do not have to go all the way up the chain.
Jarlaxle the character was built around confidence and bravo. It was only in the sellsword series that he really showed his fighting competence.
The alluring trait would work well too, especially if I went without a casting class to gain access to Arcane Strike to improve damage.
You're right about the fact he would let others do the fighting for him first, but he was a competent fighter, quite deadly in his own right, but why get your hands dirty if you don't have to? ;)
I will consider Ninja over Rogue. It is possible this may require two builds (one Bard/X and another Ninja/Y) for critique.
Playing Jarlaxle is going to be a cash sink.
Buy every odd wonderous item you can and max out Use Magic Device.
Go rogue for the Charisma based checks and and maybe a few levels of fighter, remember he went toe to toe with Ellery in the second Sellswords book and she was pobably a fighter/rogue/assassin.
Exactly, gonna have to pick up as many little trinkets... odds and ends... that sort of thing as I can to try to emulate the bag o' tricks he's always using.
That makes me think of that Rogue Talent Black Market Connections. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo---ro gue-talents/black-market-connections-ex
Black market connections exactly. Or possibly sink into craft wondrous items since he seemed to always be using wondrous items.
I forgot to mention, since it is a low-magic game (meaning, no full caster classes) we don't have access to craft feats outside of Brew Potion. Which makes Black Market Connections even more attractive.
Seems to me the new Swashbuckler playtest class would be perfect for representing Jarlaxle. It's like a gunslinger, but with swords. It has full base attack bonus, more skills than a fighter, and is Charisma based for its bravado, isn't it?
It even has many of the Charisma-based skills mentioned in this thread.
Seems to me the new Swashbuckler playtest class would be perfect for representing Jarlaxle. It's like a gunslinger, but with swords. It has full base attack bonus, more skills than a fighter, and is Charisma based for its bravado, isn't it?
It even has many of the Charisma-based skills mentioned in this thread.
Where can I see this new class?
Where can I see this new class?Seems to me the new Swashbuckler playtest class would be perfect for representing Jarlaxle. It's like a gunslinger, but with swords. It has full base attack bonus, more skills than a fighter, and is Charisma based for its bravado, isn't it?
It even has many of the Charisma-based skills mentioned in this thread.
It's a free, official Paizo download.Where can I see this new class?Seems to me the new Swashbuckler playtest class would be perfect for representing Jarlaxle. It's like a gunslinger, but with swords. It has full base attack bonus, more skills than a fighter, and is Charisma based for its bravado, isn't it?
It even has many of the Charisma-based skills mentioned in this thread.
Thanks RD, checking it out now.
Ok - Swashbuckler is awesome. If my DM will allow it, this may be the class to do it.
Thanks for all the assistance everyone. I am still going to build a few versions of this character (without the swashbuckler class) and I will post them here when I get the chance (likely later tonight).
Hahahaha! I won!
Screw all you guys! My ideas are the awesomemost!
(Unless his GM says no, in which case, GAME ON!)
:P
Vivisectionist Alchemist works too.
Just nab the Student of Philosophy and Pragmatic Activator traits.
Is this actually for a Forgotten Realms campaign?
I'm going to have to read up on that BBT, but the group has an alchemist, fighter/barbarian and Inquisitor already (inquisitor is eyeing up Grey Gardener PrC). I don't really want to step on toes.
This isn't for Forgotten Realms, but for a homebrewed version of Golarion where Nethys is in slumber, which is part of the reason there are fewer full casters in existence (the DM decided in order to facilitate the story a bit more, high level casting and item creation has and XP cost - which is purely RP and story driven since as PC's we don't have access to either).
Ravingdork - hilarious. ;)
That seems interesting. I guess the only full casters are elves who worship Yuelral then. If you want to do a weird social fighter then the swashbuckler is the way to go. The other way I know how to build a social character as a fighter is to use the tactician archetype but that requires too much work and more often than not using the aid other action... a lot. Decent skill points, plus lots of bonus skills added to the fighters list. Maybe a dip into bard to get some lighter healing and access to UMD or take a trait for it. Since an int of 13 or higher is right up the tacticians alley the human racial feat fast learner can bolster both your hp a tiny bit and your skill points.