Goblin Squad Member
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@Deacon, I don't think Urman was being biased about it. The way I think Goodfellow intended to write it (because I don't think he meant to make 2 of them the slowest) is that freemen are most expensive but fastest, undead are cheapest but slowest, and slaves are in between on cost and speed. I would think the last 2 would get something extra because using them gets you the heinous flag, but I don't think the basic idea is that bad.
It does make sense to me that any deficiencies undead workers have due to lack of fine motor skills or intelligence would be offset due to not needing rest, so that undead likely wouldn't be the slowest workers.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bluddwolf: I find it difficult to believe that your character can tolerate undead but not slavery. As if undeath weren't another form of slavery. I doubt a typical bandit knows the intricacies of necromancy as to know which types retain their soul and which don't. So no problem seeing your buddy who you traveled with last week raised as a zombie?
@ Deacon: Have they stated the effects of Unrest upon a settlement in any way? I can see a Lawful Evil settlement where slavery is abundant (a place where I'll be living) having a lot of Unrest. Though it does mention that Evil cities endure Unrest better than Good ones. Will our slaves rebel from time to time? Can we quell a slave revolt?
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Goblin Squad Member
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But in regards to slaves and undead only being able to build basic structures, have you heard of the Egyptian Pyramids?
Recent evidence leans towards the pyramids not having used slaves in the construction. The differences may be small between slaves and free laborers in such a time, but those differences can have huge impacts on morale and worker efficiency. Not to mention workplace safety. Though your point of slaves still being able to construct relatively complex structures through sheer brute force is still relevant, given sufficient overseers and skilled tradesmen in the mix to make sure they don't mess it up.
Undead labor is very difficult, as most mindless undead cannot grasp the nuances of needing to quarry out blocks in specific geometric shapes or even the basics of measuring before something is cut. Carrying objects from point A to point B however would be a great use for them, so long as you can provide simple directions for their journey. Sentient undead on the other hand are unlikely to appreciate being used for such manual labor and are likely to look for ways to sabotage their master and his or her efforts. They can be trained and excel at tasks without tiring, but require a strict eye to keep them in line.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@urman yeah I did typo that. I thought I reread before posting but I missed it. I think everyone got the simple point I was trying to make. Deacon went more in depth but is along the idea I was trying to present. As long as each option is viable, each with perks and faults, or lack of both as a "baseline" option, then I would see that as working as intended.
Side note: I don't see slavery as heinous. Undead I 100% agree with, dark magic and all. Slavery doesn't have to be heinous, but could definitely have negative effects, such as the unrest Idea. It can be debated, but that is my thoughts on it.
On the alignment side I want to be cautious because it might funnel too much as settlements that want to use slavery have to be X and to use undead you must be Y and so on. If possible, leave alignment out of it all together (from what a settlement can choose to use as their workforce) and just use things such as unrest to balance who can, or should, use what.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bluddwolf: I find it difficult to believe that your character can tolerate undead but not slavery. As if undeath weren't another form of slavery. I doubt a typical bandit knows the intricacies of necromancy as to know which types retain their soul and which don't. So no problem seeing your buddy who you traveled with last week raised as a zombie?
Souls are for Gods to be concerned with, not men. My soul, if my character has one, is filled with greed and the desire for freedom and adventure.
The Undead have lost their freedom when they were killed, and not to be regained unless resurrected. So while undead, they have no freedom to protect as part of the River Freedoms.
Slaves on the other hand are mentioned in the River Freedoms. Their condition is abhorrent to any that hold freedom in high regard.
But, if you feel this is an inconsistent view point, then you are welcome to chalk it up to my Chaotic Neutral belief system.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Side note: I don't see slavery as heinous. Undead I 100% agree with, dark magic and all. Slavery doesn't have to be heinous, but could definitely have negative effects, such as the unrest Idea. It can be debated, but that is my thoughts on it.
It can NOT be debated. It is (insert string of swears) wrong. 100% Heinous. No arguments.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Side note: I don't see slavery as heinous. Undead I 100% agree with, dark magic and all. Slavery doesn't have to be heinous, but could definitely have negative effects, such as the unrest Idea. It can be debated, but that is my thoughts on it.It can NOT be debated. It is (insert string of swears) wrong. 100% Heinous. No arguments.
But is it viewed as "Heinous" in Golarion?
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Goblin Squad Member
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But is it viewed as "Heinous" in Golarion?Side note: I don't see slavery as heinous. Undead I 100% agree with, dark magic and all. Slavery doesn't have to be heinous, but could definitely have negative effects, such as the unrest Idea. It can be debated, but that is my thoughts on it.It can NOT be debated. It is (insert string of swears) wrong. 100% Heinous. No arguments.
This isn't one worth fighting over Bludd. We are lucky to be getting the setting's slavery in a PG-13 game. Leave it to the evils where it belongs.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This isn't one worth fighting over Bludd. We are lucky to be getting the setting's slavery in a PG-13 game. Leave it to the evils where it belongs.But is it viewed as "Heinous" in Golarion?Side note: I don't see slavery as heinous. Undead I 100% agree with, dark magic and all. Slavery doesn't have to be heinous, but could definitely have negative effects, such as the unrest Idea. It can be debated, but that is my thoughts on it.It can NOT be debated. It is (insert string of swears) wrong. 100% Heinous. No arguments.
I'm just wondering if slavery in any form might not be permissible in Golarion in LN or CN states. Perhaps a form of indentured servitude or debtor's imprisonment.
I acknowledge that within the River Kingdims it is considered abhorrent. Would not the "Heinous Flag" then apply to any Hell Knight?
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Goblin Squad Member
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This isn't one worth fighting over Bludd. We are lucky to be getting the setting's slavery in a PG-13 game. Leave it to the evils where it belongs.But is it viewed as "Heinous" in Golarion?Side note: I don't see slavery as heinous. Undead I 100% agree with, dark magic and all. Slavery doesn't have to be heinous, but could definitely have negative effects, such as the unrest Idea. It can be debated, but that is my thoughts on it.It can NOT be debated. It is (insert string of swears) wrong. 100% Heinous. No arguments.I'm just wondering if slavery in any form might not be permissible in Golarion in LN or CN states. Perhaps a form of indentured servitude or debtor's imprisonment.
I acknowledge that within the River Kingdims it is considered abhorrent. Would not the "Heinous Flag" then apply to any Hell Knight?
Katapesh is TN and has slavery. But that won't keep it from being evil here.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Katapesh is TN and has slavery. But that won't keep it from being evil here.Evil, "Yes", "Heinous" I'm not so sure. If it is in fact heinous, then the Hell Knights must wield tremendous power.
Well, they do. In the River Kingdoms, the Hell Knights basically ignore the River Freedoms and all the problems it causes with the locals. Their rules are more important than the local kingdoms' rules, and the people who don't like it kinda just have to deal.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, they do. In the River Kingdoms, the Hell Knights basically ignore the River Freedoms and all the problems it causes with the locals. Their rules are more important than the local kingdoms' rules, and the people who don't like it kinda just have to deal.
Doesn't that just bring a smile to your face? No? Is that just me?
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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In the River Kingdoms, the Golden Rule often yields to the Steel Rule: He who wields the steel, makes the rules.
I'll mention that there are lots of cases on Earth where specific rights are set out in paper, and yet governments simply do things which infringe those rights. In order to avoid going too far off track, I won't mention any specific cases, and allow the students of history to pick which ones they find most relevant. (If the example a given person picks out doesn't seem appropriate, look for a better example.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Again this goes back to alignment as a faction wheel v.s. alignment as 2nd reputation system. If Chaotic and evil are truly supposed to suck and be additional punishment for undesired behavior, why are they getting such cool, high dev, systems like SAD and slavery? It doesn't seem right that GW would put these in so that only the worst types of players can use them.Worst type of players? As a priestess of Asmodeus I plan on using slave labor as often as possible. I didn't know playing my character "in character" made me the worst type of player?
I think he meant the worst type of character. We can all agree human sacrifice is on the bad side of the scale of hobbies.
The distinction is causing a lot of confusion arounf Reputation in general.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If Chaotic and evil are truly supposed to suck and be additional punishment for undesired behavior, why are they getting such cool, high dev, systems like SAD and slavery?They're each separately getting cool systems.
Ryan has always said it will be the combination of being Chaotic and Evil and Low Reputation that will cause your character to suck. Stephen has clarified that most of the suck comes from being Low Reputation, but that it is extremely unlikely that anyone will be able to pull off High Reputation Chaotic Evil.
CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.
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Raiding POI for slaves, assuming that poi are run by npc's. i see slaves as one more resource to be harvested, sold/traded or sacrificed.
Would you raid a POI with slavers? we get the slaves and you get your loot.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Raiding POI for slaves, assuming that poi are run by npc's. i see slaves as one more resource to be harvested, sold/traded or sacrificed.
Would you raid a POI with slavers? we get the slaves and you get your loot.
Interesting proposal; it'd be really cool if one of the primary sources for slaves was raiding other people. Perhaps it would be like this:
You can make slaves through a crafting process much like other tools; they'd require lots of food and so on to craft, and leave you with your slave labor kit. However, doing so creates slaves out of your own population, which increases the unrest of the people.
If, however, you raid a Point of Interest or maybe Outpost (not just one already employing slaves) you can optionally take some slaves as part of the loot. You'd then combine the slaves taken there with a cheaper craft recipe to make your slaves, but this recipe would not incur the greater unrest penalty as these slaves are not your own people.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Raiding POI for slaves, assuming that poi are run by npc's. i see slaves as one more resource to be harvested, sold/traded or sacrificed.
Would you raid a POI with slavers? we get the slaves and you get your loot.
I like the way you think. I was also thinking it would be great if we could set up a slave market in my city where raiders/slavers come to sell them!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Interesting points, more than would have expected from a slave thread...
My understanding is that there will be a slave harvesring kit much the same as havesting lumber.
Selling them would require a buy order in the market if they choose to make them a tradable item. How those actions would effect faction would vary by many different circumstances.
If a lawful city set slavery as legal then that in theory would allow it in the existing market, that would likely not effect the good vs evil part of faction even if legal.
I would expect it might be less of a faction hit to buy an use slaves than harvesting your own making the buying of slaves a viable commodity. I would not expect to have a full blown slave market to check there teeth prior to purchase, yes I know that sounds ridicules but we are talking about slavery, just so...
I don't think rep should be involved as we are talking strictly about NPCs. Of course the mechanic could allow for it if slaves were harvested from your neighbors POI, and that directly disrupted production when there was no fued, or war declared.
EDIT: A POI with slavers trainging house? With outposts to harvest slaves? Sounds like to much? If you need a steady flow of slaves to replace dead ones maybe not?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Vwoom, firstly I agree wholeheartedly that reputation should be left out of this particular mechanic.
My understanding is that there will be a slave harvesring kit much the same as havesting lumber.
I believe the "slave kit" is not to harvest slaves, but to use them for harvesting. For example, you can use a "regular lumber harvesting kit" which is understood to employ NPC freemen in gathering your wood, or you can use a "slave-labor lumber harvesting kit" which employs slave and slavedriver NPC's.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm still trying to figure out why the use of slaves or undead saddle the player with the most severe PvP flag, for PvE content. This is especially true for Necromancers.
Why are Necromancers automatically flagged for PvP vs everyone for performing their primary class feature?
Why are players who intend to be Necromancers so quiet on this?
When a settlement manager decides to use slaves, who exactly gets flagged as heinous? Is it just that one individual or the entire community?
If just the Settlement manager, he will just use slaves while deep within his settlement walls, protected by PC body guards which renders his heinous flag meaningless.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Have I missed some information on undead in PFO or is this talk of undead labor just speculation?
There are many ways in which undead may be implemented, I'm not sure that labor is a good one. Are there any necropolises in Golarion? Do they fit in in the River Kingdoms? Don't undead labor and slave labor appeal to pretty much the same group of players, causing redundant overlap of features?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bludd
I don't think there are many necromancers out there, and very little information has been revealed about this very unique playstyle.
Many games have left the necromancers out of games, and when are included, they are generally done incorrectly. No game designer has thought of a way to truly revolutionize implementation of the systems in place to replicate the Table-top experience. I know many of us aren't expecting the same experience, but what we do expect is an honest attempt at creating our class in our playstyle. The most common misconception is that individuals choose necromancers for DoTs and Fear spells.
But that is a rant for another time.
But here is my issue with both slaves and undead and their versatile usage. If we are taking a penalty for even attempting it, what is the payoff? Is it even going to be mechanically viable? (The question is not: Can it be coded, but rather why would I use this if it doesn't provide a sound alternative.)
I guess what my original question really meant was: Is it even worth it? Other than RP factor, what would be the point?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Wurner
Necropolises in Golarion: The simple answer if there isn't one is: Not Yet
Do they fit into the River Kingdoms: Does it matter? Its based off the Kingmaker campaign. Build your own kingdom. So in response: If it doesn't originally, it will.
Don't undead labor and slave labor appeal to the same group of players?: Not at all.
I acknowledge that not all of us read the same authors. I also acknowledge that many of us have very diverse gaming backgrounds. I know one thing across many spectrums though. The cliche enemy is undead. Generally those Undead are lead by an intelligent undead or a powerful necromancer. That threat generally challenges the world in these situations. I can name several instances of Undead performing not only basic tasks but complex and dextrous tasks.
WoW: The Lich King's forces mined, built, and crafted nearly everything within his realm. (BTW according to the lore, the majority of those hordes of undead were unintelligent, but controlled by him directly thanks to that good ol' helm of his. They added in some comical factors which included the undead speaking and such)
Karrnath: http://eberron.wikia.com/wiki/Karrnath from the tabletop game.
(You will notice that Golgothan lore tips its hat to Karrnath)
I could go on, but the point is: Undead do not have to be mindless. There are severely weak (Low Power/CR) intelligent undead. There were also ways to "Awaken" undead in order to provide them with an intelligence score. While I agree that mindless undead would be horrible crafters, I do think they could perform remedial functions superior to any living creature. Mining would be one example. How much better would an undead compare? They could strip mine an entire area while the living were asleep. They would probably get more useless material than their living counterparts, but they would easily make up for it in the bulk of materials they could provide and transport.
If the argument exist that intelligent undead would actively seek to disrupt their controllers, then why must they be controlled? In D&D 3.5 there was a feat chain for the specific purpose of recruiting undead as cohorts and followers.
I trust the developers to take a look at the issues and create a system that works and is revolutionary in its concepts as to provide the best play experience possible.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm still trying to figure out why the use of slaves or undead saddle the player with the most severe PvP flag, for PvE content. This is especially true for Necromancers.
Why are Necromancers automatically flagged for PvP vs everyone for performing their primary class feature?
Because necromancers are probably CE and CE has to suck because there's NO OTHER WAY of punishing naughty bad players.
Technically I think it's because their class role can't be performed without committing Evil. Assassins will be the same if they stay consistent.
Paladins can't perform their class role without committing Good but that doesn't get a special mark because they're treating Good as the normalized default setting for everything so committing Good is invisible and gets no special mark (core alignment was invented because people worried they'd be acting so Lawful Good they wouldn't register as the alignment they want to think of themselves as because of all that Lawful Good they're doing).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm still trying to figure out why the use of slaves or undead saddle the player with the most severe PvP flag, for PvE content. This is especially true for Necromancers.
Yes,I have this feeling as well. It's why I think a separate flag for Heinous is a bit much.
As one who will be using slaves, one who will worship the God of Slavery, as one who will be allied with the Hellknights of Fort Indomitable, who are the Order of the Chain whose prime directive is the capture and return of escaped slaves. It makes me think I will be flagged Heinous a good deal of time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Deacon, for your question on the benefits of slave labor or undead labor, I expect a good ol' TBD from GW. I expect these systems are relatively far away from being implemented at the moment.
For people saying the Heinous character will stay inside his own settlement, the only use for the Slave Labor Kits thus far has been using them in mothernode gathering, which as you might expect cannot be done in the safety of your settlement. I would expect that GW would implement it in a way that the Heinous flag is a meaningful penalty, so that Slave users can get a meaningful reward to compensate them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I guess what my original question really meant was: Is it even worth it? Other than RP factor, what would be the point?
Necromancy and slavery make sense if there is a general labor shortage. If most settlements have to juggle their labor demands, and perhaps unrest and corruption cause some loss of laborers, then sufficiently evil people will turn to importing slave labor or creating their own laborers on the spot. If labor is in short enough supply, even shambling brain dead workers start to look useful.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm still trying to figure out why the use of slaves or undead saddle the player with the most severe PvP flag, for PvE content. This is especially true for Necromancers.Yes,I have this feeling as well. It's why I think a separate flag for Heinous is a bit much.
As one who will be using slaves, one who will worship the God of Slavery, as one who will be allied with the Hellknights of Fort Indomitable, who are the Order of the Chain whose prime directive is the capture and return of escaped slaves. It makes me think I will be flagged Heinous a good deal of time.
I am so excited Fiendish, that you and your company will be taking up this endeavor.
Although I will occasional raid your slaver caravans to free your slaves, butcher your teamsters and loot whatever coin they have, it will be great fun having an evil adversary.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am so excited Fiendish, that you and your company will be taking up this endeavor.
Although I will occasional raid your slaver caravans to free your slaves, butcher your teamsters and loot whatever coin they have, it will be great fun having an evil adversary.
I agree! To the victor go the spoils!
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Goblin Squad Member
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I guess what my original question really meant was: Is it even worth it? Other than RP factor, what would be the point?Necromancy and slavery make sense if there is a general labor shortage. If most settlements have to juggle their labor demands, and perhaps unrest and corruption cause some loss of laborers, then sufficiently evil people will turn to importing slave labor or creating their own laborers on the spot. If labor is in short enough supply, even shambling brain dead workers start to look useful.
Not exactly. Who says that evil settlement will have less workers? In fact a LE settlement's citizens are more likely to put up with the things going on around them than a LG city. If a cabal of necromancers pop up in a LG city and start raising undead everywhere then the citizens of that city would go crazy. (Unrest and likely corruption if necromancy was outlawed) while in the LE city the citizens would go "meh happens every day"
Instead of dreaming of disenfranchising evil, why don't we all just agree to disagree.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Who says that evil settlement will have less workers?
I don't know who says that. I merely offered that necromancy and slavery make sense if there is a general labor shortage.
If commoner NPC types are flooding the streets and begging for work at low wages, I doubt it makes huge amounts of sense to pay slave hunters to go gather slaves elsewhere. I doubt it makes sense to spend funds on elaborate dark magics to raise the dead to do one's bidding.
... but if you want me to suggest evil settlements will have less workers, I can do that for you. I'd offer that exhuming the NPC commoner's bodies and bones from the graveyard might disturb some fraction of their family members. Likewise human sacrifice, allowing one's orc minions to paw the commoners, feeding commoners to one's ghouls... All of these acts should distress the basic commoner. Those squeamish wimps will, at first possible opportunity, depart the evil town for places that at least outlaw such acts.
To prevent such outflows of population, one might expect that some fraction of the security apparatus of any normal evil, death-worshipping, slave-owning, or necromancy-friendly settlement will be focused on preventing people from leaving.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I guess what my original question really meant was: Is it even worth it? Other than RP factor, what would be the point?Necromancy and slavery make sense if there is a general labor shortage. If most settlements have to juggle their labor demands, and perhaps unrest and corruption cause some loss of laborers, then sufficiently evil people will turn to importing slave labor or creating their own laborers on the spot. If labor is in short enough supply, even shambling brain dead workers start to look useful.
Not exactly. Who says that evil settlement will have less workers? In fact a LE settlement's citizens are more likely to put up with the things going on around them than a LG city. If a cabal of necromancers pop up in a LG city and start raising undead everywhere then the citizens of that city would go crazy. (Unrest and likely corruption if necromancy was outlawed) while in the LE city the citizens would go "meh happens every day"
Instead of dreaming of disenfranchising evil, why don't we all just agree to disagree.
Which is exactly why Evil settlements have a higher base value for Unrest but are less impacted by evil deeds going on. People know they live in a bad neighborhood and aren't all that thrilled about it, but this knowledge also reduces the shock value that comes with bad things happening. I think it makes a lot of sense.
As for numbers, I do not see any reason to believe that populations would be that different. Places with lower survival rates tend to have higher birth rates. It all tends to come out in the wash at the end of day.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm still trying to figure out why the use of slaves or undead saddle the player with the most severe PvP flag, for PvE content. This is especially true for Necromancers.
Why are Necromancers automatically flagged for PvP vs everyone for performing their primary class feature?
Why are players who intend to be Necromancers so quiet on this?
When a settlement manager decides to use slaves, who exactly gets flagged as heinous? Is it just that one individual or the entire community?
If just the Settlement manager, he will just use slaves while deep within his settlement walls, protected by PC body guards which renders his heinous flag meaningless.
For undead it makes perfect sense, raising/using undead is a very very evil act in pathfinder. There is just no way around that. Also the reason why necromancers arnt saying anything is that because in Pathfinder if you are caught raising undead and such and you are not in a necropolis or some such you would expect your character to be arrested and tried on serious crimes. thats just the way it is.
Honestly its just one of those things thats imbedded in the IP.
As to slavery, i suppose one could make an argument to have using slaves as just a LE act and not a heinous act. Which for slavery im perfectly fine with.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Who says that evil settlement will have less workers?I don't know who says that. I merely offered that necromancy and slavery make sense if there is a general labor shortage.
If commoner NPC types are flooding the streets and begging for work at low wages, I doubt it makes huge amounts of sense to pay slave hunters to go gather slaves elsewhere. I doubt it makes sense to spend funds on elaborate dark magics to raise the dead to do one's bidding.
... but if you want me to suggest evil settlements will have less workers, I can do that for you. I'd offer that exhuming the NPC commoner's bodies and bones from the graveyard might disturb some fraction of their family members. Likewise human sacrifice, allowing one's orc minions to paw the commoners, feeding commoners to one's ghouls... All of these acts should distress the basic commoner. Those squeamish wimps will, at first possible opportunity, depart the evil town for places that at least outlaw such acts.
To prevent such outflows of population, one might expect that some fraction of the security apparatus of any normal evil, death-worshipping, slave-owning, or necromancy-friendly settlement will be focused on preventing people from leaving.
If commoners flood the streets, it means they can begin specializing and increasing their wages. Excess is a very good thing when you have public health under control (Magic!). What would this commoner base this on? After a few generations all the commoner would know would be the ways the city was run.
You use examples that pose those beliefs, hence me asking why. So instead, I will start rephrasing as so:
Commoners in evil cities will be accepting of evil behavior.
Golgotha has no funerals for buried individuals. Nor do we have cremation. There is only waste management. Commoners will not recognize a skeleton.
Evil cities are not the same as Communist Countries. There will be no huge influx of commoners trying to cross the "Iron Curtain".
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Goblin Squad Member
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Evil cities are not the same as Communist Countries. There will be no huge influx of commoners trying to cross the "Iron...
I was thinking more along the lines of slaves escaping the American South pre-Civil War. But it can also apply to the Armenian diaspora, the flood of refugees from the Lebanese Civil War, and the huge migration of Southern Blacks fleeing Jim Crow to live in the North and West from the 1920s to 1950s. Or the Iron Curtain. Some people will tend to leave bad situations; some will stay. It generally means some shift of populace from bad to not-quite-as-bad.
edit: of course, PFO *is* high fantasy. GW can say that commoners stoically accept living in evil places as their lot in life, even if there is a LG bolt-hole 2 miles away.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If there is a LG city big enough to survive two miles from that city I'm not sure I want to stand in the spots between them.
Do any cities in fiction or especially Golarion openly practice necromancy, orc underlings pawing the commoners, or have slaves officially owned by the city-state?
I've always come across that as the state allows those things and gets a cut of the material benefits but doesn't engage in them itself. That principle would simplify game mechanics to say only individuals use the slave mining kits it's not the state's business (but they get a cut of the profits when those mined goods are traded in town). The state itself doesn't do necromancy just those creepy guys that don't come outside very much but they get a cut of the before and after of that too.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If there is a LG city big enough to survive two miles from that city I'm not sure I want to stand in the spots between them.
Do any cities in fiction or especially Golarion openly practice necromancy, orc underlings pawing the commoners, or have slaves officially owned by the city-state?
I've always come across that as the state allows those things and gets a cut of the material benefits but doesn't engage in them itself. That principle would simplify game mechanics to say only individuals use the slave mining kits it's not the state's business (but they get a cut of the profits when those mined goods are traded in town). The state itself doesn't do necromancy just those creepy guys that don't come outside very much but they get a cut of the before and after of that too.
In Golarion:
Cheliax openly uses slavery, it is thoroughly sanctioned by the state at all levels. Geb is a country entirely made of undead, it's ruler an immortal ghost. Gnolls are a major race of Katapesh, that can often be found in the cities there.
There are probably more, these are just a few examples. Golarion is big.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Slavery is legal in Cheliax, you can have private or government owned slaves just as other property. I'd imagine most of the government owned slaves were merely taken from other countries by slavers serving Cheliax directly, though they'd likely also be buying slaves from the Shackles if they're in need of more. However, I don't think things get that specific in most of the source books, so these are merely assumptions.
