|
Ok, I want to make a front line cleric without multiclassing. So this is what I've got so far.
My cleric is a level 6 human cleric with domains in Healing and Glory, with his current stats being:
Str 11
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 18
Cha 14
His current feats are:
Combat casting
Channel Smite
Eschew materials
Selective channeling
with my remaining feat tree being:
guided hands
heavy armor proficiency
Alignment channel
extra channel
Improved shield bash
two weapon fighting
Scribe scroll
(in no particular order)
Guided hands lets me use my wisdom instead of my strength to hit as long as I'm using my god's favored weapon. And I've calculated I can get my Wis up to 32. He'res the math.
+5 Tome of understanding
+6 Headband of Mental Superiority
+3 result of leveling
18 My current wis stat
=32 or a +11
since at higher levels I get the spell holy sword and divine power that's another 11 right there.
Divine power among other things has a maximum to hit bonus of +6.
with holy sword making any sword +5 holy.
so 22+ my max BAB at twenty (15) is 37.
My AC can get up to 45
+9 mithril full plate (+5 enhancement = 14)
+2 Mithril Heavy shield (+5 enhancement = 7)
+5 ring of protection [deflect]
+5 Amulet of natural armor [Nat]
+3 dex bonus *belt of physical perfection and upper limit of Mithril full plate*
+1 dusty rose ioun stone
10 for existing
=45 with enhancement bonuses
Is there any way to improve these scores? (I'm aware I'm missing out on a 34 wis due to poor leveling and starting stats and I'm aware the dodge feat would give me 1 additional ac. anything else? also, I am ware it will be a miricle for me to get all of this stuff but lets go with the assumption I'm lucky.)
Here are my suggestions:
First, I think you should re-arrange your stats. A battle cleric is more like:
Str 18, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 10
Then, forget Guided hand and the "Channel" feats. Get Power attack instead and use a two-handed weapon.
Grab the excellent Heroism sub-domain from Glory.
Change the healing domain for something else, depending on your chosen deity.
My 2 copper
2 weapon fighting requires a dex 15 so with your stats as is, you probably want to skip that and shield bash. Also I don't think you can cast with the shield (could be wrong) Didn't realize guided hand was a pathfinder feat, might need to reevaluate the warpriest now (btw the beta is free you might want to check it out its exactly the class you are trying to make.)
Might I recommend the "fate's favored" trait? It boosts all luck effects by +1. When combined with spells like "divine favor" & "divine power", you've got a very good bonus that stacks with pretty much all other bonuses (few things give luck bonuses). If you use a half-orc as well, they get an alternate trait (sacred tatoo) that gives a luck bonus to all saves.
But yeah, you will have considerable damage problems...
Here are my suggestions:
First, I think you should re-arrange your stats. A battle cleric is more like:
Str 18, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 10Then, forget Guided hand and the "Channel" feats. Get Power attack instead and use a two-handed weapon.
Grab the excellent Heroism sub-domain from Glory.
Change the healing domain for something else, depending on your chosen deity.My 2 copper
This.
My recommendation for deity would be Gorum, taking Rage and Ferocity. Smites ahoy.
Here are my suggestions:
First, I think you should re-arrange your stats. A battle cleric is more like:
Str 18, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 10Then, forget Guided hand and the "Channel" feats. Get Power attack instead and use a two-handed weapon.
Grab the excellent Heroism sub-domain from Glory.
Change the healing domain for something else, depending on your chosen deity.My 2 copper
This.
My recommendation for deity would be Gorum, taking Rage and Ferocity. Smites ahoy.
What? That pompous loser?
No Brother, join me in our worship of Ragathiel! He who maimed Infernal Duke Deumus and slew Typhon!
Our mighty lord wrestled with a foul serpent whose scales bled acid in the tumultuous waters of the Maelstrom! He choked it to death.
Your Domains are ones of RAGE and GOODness!
Eh, not bad, but I think Gorum smashes face better. :)
I agree with Djealai but I also think you should take the War Domain with the Tactics Subdomain.
First, rerolling initiative will let you go first much of the time (remember, you count as your own ally so you can use this on yourself).
Second, at level 8 having almost any first tier combat feat in the book is just awesome.
Some of my favorites: Blind-Fight, Cleave, Defensive Weapon Training, and Lunge.
Fighting an invisible creature? Take Blind-Fight for a couple rounds. Need extra protection against one weapon type? Defensive Weapon Training. That pesky creature one square too far? Lunge!
If you go with the War domain consider grabbing of the entry feats such as Power Attack or Combat Expertise to get access to even more options.
Trash this entire build and start over. Battle clerics deal damage, and your damage numbers are pathetic at every possible level. Guided hand is a trap feat, provides no damage bonus and you dumped the stat that would give this to you. Nearly 100 percent of your remaining feats are bad to situational, and situation ones are often bad on this build.
Sword and board is a bad playstyle for 3/4 BAB classes. You just don't have the to hit to sacrifice on 2 weapon fighting. You also don't need the damage mitigation of higher AC at the expense of damage ability.
If you want to use channel smite be a negative energy channel cleric. A healing domain cleric with glory implies a positive energy style.
Dump Int. You don't need it at all for a cleric, and certainly don't need a +1 bonus to it.
Battle clerics don't need much wisdom starting out. They don't need to push DCs and they won't be casting as much. A 15 starting out is enough. Starting out: 18,10,14,7,15,12. Con and wisdom can be swapped. Con can go lower if you are willing to use favored class choices on hp rater than skills. 17 STR can be used instead if you want to use the 4th level increase on that instead of on wisdom. (and if you do you can put a 14 in CHA giving you more channels, or in wisdom which gives you the same effective build).
And these changes are just a start. Honestly this build shows a pretty poor understanding of how combat works and the mathematics of the game IMHO, a complete rebuild is required if it wants to be used as a front line combat character. In addition some time looking over monster abilities by CR chart would probably be very helpful.
I understand I'm coming off pretty harsh, but if this is an existing character you are wasting your time trying to make it a frontliner. As it stands you just need to only use half the class and make the best of it as a full caster/healbot.
Guided hand is not a terrible feat for a cleric, but a front liner, a dedicated attack damage dealing cleric needs strength, not wisdom. also you would need power attack in a build that even wants to do just some damage, so 13 str is minimum.
Edit-added something I forgot
Guided Hand burns two feats that could be better spent if you are not going to be a front liner. If you are going to be a front liner you would do better with a high strength.
Eschew materials on a divine caster?
Also the low STR isn't too much of a problem if you take Craft magical Arms & Armor at 5th level and make yourself a Guided weapon, in fact it makes that build a little smarter. I recommend a few more points into DEX and not bothering with heavy armor proficiency, since you will want to be able to move around anyway.
Guided weapon is a 3.5 era weapon modification. I for one would not allow it since it isn't PF system material.
Guided hand is in fact terrible for a cleric. Building for it requires 2 feats, only works on one weapon, and doesn't increase your damage. Which means you give up far too much for damage that is lower than a lvl 1 warrior, and it doesn't even scale up since its damage stat is a dump for this particular character.
Which brings up another point, heavy armor on a character that only has 11 str is a rather glaring problem.
Power attack on a 3/4 BAB character is debatable in the first place, taking a minus to hit is very questionable. The way it's built currently nearly every action it would want to take would be better than making attack rolls. Even aid another to give somebody a +2 would be better than attacking. It's that bad as a combatant.
A front line battle cleric starts with 18 strength, and just enough wisdom to get your spells by the time they come on line (i like having a 16 by 5th level because of the bonus spell on 3rd level list at level 5).
The new Warpriest class really does this well.
For my Cleric I went with Zyphus as a Deity with Plant/Growth sub-domain and War/Tactics sub-domain (well, we homebrewed a deity with those domains). Enlarge person at will, two initiative rolls and later the ability to rotate through fighter feats == win.
I took the Grey Warden prestige class and she continues to be an absolute wrecking ball, and still has enough healing power from channel energy to keep the group alive. If your DM allows Esoteric/Eclectic training from Inner Sea Magic you'll still end up with level 9 spells.
Actually, you'll end up with them no matter what, it just affects if you'll get them at 17 or 20.
1 Two-Weapon Fighting
3 Improved Shield Bash
5 Power Attack
7 Combat Reflexes
9 Improved 2-Weapon Fighting
11 Shield Slam
13 Double Bane
13 GW Bonus – Gang Up
15 Hold for Shield Master at 16 (?)
15 GW Bonus – Vital Strike
17 Greater 2-weapon Fighting
17 GW Bonus – Dasterdly Finish
19 Improved Vital Strike
Ecw my biggest question is how are your stats? I'm trying to come up with a warpriest and am really stuck at how you can manage a high enough dex for two weapon fighting (Really curious so I could apply it to my build.)
We rolled for them, and I was fortunate. I played an Oread (+str / wis) so it wasn't hard. Remember you'll get +5 to add to stats over time, not to mention what you gain from items.
If you go Mythic you'll end up with +15 to your stats, so a dex of 15/17/19 to qualify for the feats shouldn't be too hard to come by over time.
CHA 10 (Although channel is tied to this, dump unless you're the face)
You don't need Charisma to be the party face when you play a Cleric. You need the Glory domain.
Diplomacy DC are not that high: a maxed class-skill, take 10, +2 from aid-another and the touch of glory ought to do the job.
|
@OP: Sounds like you have a lot more optimization to doif you wish 'the ultimate battle cleric'. Probably the most important aspect is to maximize damage inflicted. The easiest way to do this is with a two handed weapon, preferably with reach. Your approach of staying a single-class cleric is right on. I suggest you read the various Cleric class guides.
A fully buffed, optimized battle cleric can inflict more damage than a barbarian, for the brief time span when all buff spells are active. Unbuffed, a battle cleric is somewhat less effective in melee than is a fighter, but is also a full spell caster.
The trick is to build your cleric like a fighter & take just enough wisdom to cast all your spell levels. You are a single classed cleric, so you have full spell casting. Your relatively low wisdom discourages you from offensive spells, but your buff spells work just fine.