Thankies for theses ideas.
Each group fonctions differently, and what works with one group doesn't work with another, but it's always good to have some guidelines.
The most important part is that the players (and the GM) enjoy themselves, and have fun. As a GM, I'm not afraid to ask if the players are confortable with the pace and tone of my games. I try to get them involved in the story, by using elements of their background (why ask for a background on your Recruitment thread if you don't want to use it?) or NPC they encounter. I try to find something ( a hook, a side quest, an interesting NPC or situation)for everyone, but it's not always easy.
Sometimes the character's personalities work so well together, are deep and complex, evolve with the story you forgot you're in a game, and you feel like you're reading a book. It's a kind of magic you can't get rules for.
Good examples of that, IMO, are DM Jelani's current Carrion Crown (yes, i'm a big fan), and The Walking Dead of Golarion, by GM Fiendish.
Thanks for the helpful advice :)
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If there were ever a list of threads that need stickied, this would be on that list. Wonderful food for thought here; especially the push/hook relationship. That's something I've never really thought of as a player, even when I find myself doing it, but I can see where it would be incomparably healthy for a game. Keep this thread alive, ladies and gents; it's a service to us all.
If there were ever a list of threads that need stickied, this would be on that list...
I agree. Painlord agrees and... wait for it... Paizo agrees! This thread has been stickied for a while now. Almost ever since they started up an online campaigns general discussion forum. Massive props to Painlord for having two of the four stickied threads!
If you haven't already, do read the other stickied threads, too. Golden advice in there.
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Good stuff here: Wilmannator's PbP Tip #1.
It's so good that I wish I had thought of it first...then named it 'Painlord's Leave Off of Awesome' or some such. Could have patented it and derived profit whenever someone used it.
But no, this is all Wilmannator. That glorious piddlespotter.
Heh. Glad you liked it, mate! You thought of the reason I needed such a tip ("always be pushing"), so you can definitely claim some ownership there. I'll have to head down to the patent office, then monitor the boards for when people use it so we can collect royalties.
And don't worry... I'm pretty sure for tip #2 (or I might make it #3), you did think of it first. No spoilers, though!
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This continues to be the go-to thread for my new players. Just linked it again today. Thanks PL!
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When I first started doing PBP many years ago (2015), I read some sage advice for PBP games, with some particularly helpful advice for players making their posts. Some of it was standard stuff about being descriptive, providing some dialog rather than just making a skill roll, and so on. But I remember the advice went into something that it called a "hook." This meant that the post provided something that the other players and/or the DM could respond to.
Now when I look for that post/thread, I don't find it. If anyone can provide a link to the thread, I'd appreciate it. I've recently encountered a player whose posts are frustratingly lean on good RP text. I would like to know where the post is so I can recommend the GM tip the player off to the suggestions made therein.
Thanks.
Are you sure it's not this thread? Painlord's #1 rule in the original post has to do with the push and the hook.
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Are you sure it's not this thread? Painlord's #1 rule in the original post has to do with the push and the hook.
I was thinking the same thing. I hope it's still there. ;)
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I somehow looked past that. I thought I had checked the spoilers. Thanks.
I will not suffer goblins in my village... Feel my wrath!
Arthur runs over to the nearest goblin and thrusts at him with his rapier.
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Giving you kudos for this guide as well, Painlord! Again, many thanks for the beaucoup of useful information.
A great guide! Thank you very much for sharing!
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Well, that's two favorites you get from me in one day Painlord. That was a good read.
It doesn't feel like this should really need to be said; however, it apparently does.
Please at least skim the posts from the other players. And definitely read the GM's posts in .
If you don't understand what the GM said, ask a question. If you don't like the plans the others are making, say something.
Percival will not be a part of such deceptive tactics. We must be the epitome of honesty in all things.
Something...
I have seen several instances in recent months where the 'group' spends some time making a fairly detailed plan on how to deal with X difficult situation. Particular positioning, prep spells, specific things to say or not say to someone, etc... Then some jack-hole throws it all out the window with his first action. Either because he didn't bother reading or because he didn't like the plan, yet said nothing while it was being discussed.
Twice it has come whisker close to causing a TPK.
Those were the worst 2, but there have been several others that were less severe but nearly as irritating. This is more than just slightly irritating.
In scenario 2, why couldn't you use AoE spells, exactly?
Just throw them off while screaming "JH B! Look out! You've run into a live fire zone!" and tell him to roll Reflex saves.
Bombing your BSF is a valid strategy even when they're not being deliberately unhelpful.
In scenario 2, why couldn't you use AoE spells, exactly?
Just throw them off while screaming "JH B! Look out! You've run into a live fire zone!" and tell him to roll Reflex saves.
Bombing your BSF is a valid strategy even when they're not being deliberately unhelpful.
That one was PFS scenario. Friendly Fire is not allowed unless the target specifically gives you permission to hit him. Since he didn't look at the previous 18 posts making the plan, I doubt he would have noticed us asking if we could include him.
I tell you what though. If we had even 1 other PC slightly melee capable in that group, I would have suggested we just stay in our hide positions and let him get killed.| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
No one ever says:
"I'm only going to post a 1 liner without looking at the map every other day."
"I'm not going to answer any questions."
"I expect pages of internal monologue filled with teenage angst and love/hate relationships within the team."
"Even though I will try to get to this; since I have over committed in my job, family, home game, and 4 other PbP I really won't get to this very often."
"I haven't really planned anything, so I'm just going to have random-ish encounters until something you guys do inspires me."
Sorry for the necromancy, but I thought this point was interesting. It's important to be open and aware when it comes to your weaknesses and preferences. I could see a more responsible and self-conscious GM giving disclaimers like:
"I may sometimes not see questions-- I try to answer players promptly, but players may have to poke me. I promise I'm not ignoring you."
"I enjoy games that feature a lot of focus on relationships and character arcs. Some might call it 'melodrama', and it's not everyone's cup of tea."
"I have a busy schedule, but will try to post at least daily. If I can't maintain consistency, I will do my best to bring the game to a satisfying early ending."
"This game will start out as a fairly sandbox affair that requires players to be proactive to help shape the story."
Just testing for a slightly more complex dead shot case:
1 Grit expended
hits
hits
miss misfire ignored due to
dead shot
miss
miss
Quickly stepping out of the reach of the Balors whip, Liliya purrs
"Oh my, Whip play, and such hot one at that? Lets just hope you dont explode with passion my dear." as she attempts quell the Balors excitement by shooting at his private parts from extremely short range.
"Damn, I deemed that easier to hit" she thinks to herself, "I hope my mortal murder hobo cat paws do better then me".
Also, are there any cunning hints for how to get into your first PbP game?
I think GMs, understandable, focus quite a bit on previous plays, which makes it difficult to get into your first game.
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Also, are there any cunning hints for how to get into your first PbP game?
I think GMs, understandable, focus quite a bit on previous plays, which makes it difficult to get into your first game.
If you are interested in Society play we have a few lodges where lots of games are recruited from. Below is a link to a compiled slide deck with a lot of the PbP information on getting set up and were to find the Lodges.
Also, are there any cunning hints for how to get into your first PbP game?
I think GMs, understandable, focus quite a bit on previous plays, which makes it difficult to get into your first game.
Just say you are a beginner. Most anyone I've met will happily help out.
I think you've got the wrong idea about getting accepted though. Most of the time it is the current stuff that gms consider, such as liking your presented character concept, how the various concepts will work together (i.e. don't pair the ranger that specialized in killing kobolds with the kobold player), how the concepts fit the campaign, player behavior during recruitment, and similar things. Past play research, in the rare cases it happens, is more about blacklisting problem players.
That's my experience anyway.
If you can not find anything, I'm always looking for test players for my system.
Be patient. Watch games unfold. Let GMs and players know when you appreciate what they do - don’t bury them with comments and stay out of the game thread. An audience member can reasonably make an occasional comment in the discussion thread or recruitment thread. Or direct message them. But keep it short and to the point.
I’ve met a lot of people and gotten accepted into a lot of games as a replacement player in this fashion. I was usually following the games in question because of a story I liked or a GM whose style I appreciated. When an opening came up, I let them know I was a fan and that I’d been lurking and I’d like to throw my hat in the ring.
It’s certainly no guarantee, but it will expand your contacts and the more you know, the more likely one will think of you when they want to extend an invite.
Also, are there any cunning hints for how to get into your first PbP game?
I think GMs, understandable, focus quite a bit on previous plays, which makes it difficult to get into your first game.
While this is true for long campaigns like Adventure Paths where experienced GMs like to have a stronger grasp of the player behind, short adventures are a good place to try out PbP. Pathfinder Society (or Starfinder Society) scenarios constantly pick up people recently arrived to the boards.
At least it worked for me.
Also, do not throw the towel just because you were pushed back in a few recruitments you wanted in, or because the style of your first adventures were not to your liking. Be patient and nice and eventually you will get into the games you enjoy. Or just start GMing your own!
Good luck! ;)
Also, are there any cunning hints for how to get into your first PbP game?
I think GMs, understandable, focus quite a bit on previous plays, which makes it difficult to get into your first game.
Also, do not throw the towel just because you were pushed back in a few recruitments you wanted in, or because the style of your first adventures were not to your liking. Be patient and nice and eventually you will get into the games you enjoy. Or just start GMing your own!
Good luck! ;)
+1
I should have added that part of the reason I lurked in other games was because my submissions to recruitment threads weren't getting any - and I mean any - traction. I didn't and still don't have time to totally nerd out on the latest published rules and lore, so my characters tended to be more vanilla than other submissions and less eye-catching.
After the flavor-of-the-month gets old, some players drop out so they can do new things. Real-life prevents others from staying the course. That's when I have had many of my best opportunities. Two of my longest-lived characters weren't mine - the player ghosted and the GM had invested so much in the character's backstory that they didn't want to throw it away. I offered to step into that character's role and continue - I was even able to track down one of the players and get his blessing (and hidden backstory!), to boot. I played that particular adopted character for over five years and don't regret that I didn't roll him up for a second.
... Two of my longest-lived characters weren't mine - the player ghosted and the GM had invested so much in the character's backstory that they didn't want to throw it away. I offered to step into that character's role and continue - I was even able to track down one of the players and get his blessing (and hidden backstory!), to boot. I played that particular adopted character for over five years and don't regret that I didn't roll him up for a second.
Impressive. I doubt I could ever manage to get that 'into' a character that I didn't develop. Good on you.
Ah, thank you! In all fairness, I had him for a very long time and I had complete freedom, so it was only limited in my starting point. I think I did get to retrain some features that I couldn't figure out how to use, so even the starting point wasn't totally set in stone.
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I think I recogniced something, having actually been selected for the first time!
1: The most common characters are martials. In particular, martials with some limited spellcasting.
2: 6 casters with something else going on being the next most common thing.
3: Full casters being relatively rare
4: As are stealth skill monkeys. Charisma skill monkey or int skill monkey are fairly frequent.
And guess what I got selected with? Yessss, a Stealth Skill monkey!
Also put in a lot of effort in roleplaying in the recruitment thread, but I think Stealth Skill monkey played a role.
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Yeah, people really like martials. Honestly, I don't know why? But I'm one of them, so I guess I'm part of the problem. I like them because it's more fun to visualize someone who leaps into battle and can get into intense, exciting, life-threatening scrapes. I think they're also easier to roleplay in PbP, since PbP tends to offer more subtle options for expressing characters who may not be diplomacy wizards. Or maybe the opposite--PbP allows for us to be more flamboyant and dramatic, whereas in-person, we can manage the nuance to play a subtler character like a full caster.
Meanwhile, Charisma skill monkeys get to talk lots and lots. And who doesn't like that? Plus, they're hot, and PbPs tend to be a lot easier to play romances in than in-person games. ;P
Definitly agreed on the romance aspect in play by posts.
Like, romance stuff on a table just get cringy, or you take it completely unserious and play it for laughs.
A reason I dislike playing casters is option paralysis. If I am a caster, it is always a spontaneous one.
Like, if you present 6ish options to me, I can pick the best one relatively quickly, but casters with like wild arcana have infinity options and I find that daunting.
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Totally in the same place as KC and Liliya. My comfort zone for characters is strong, charismatic, heavily-armored lady with a romantic streak and a little bit of magic. Works super well for PbP. And I took just enough fencing and longsword that I can write the martial aspect half-proficiently.
I really like roleplaying romance, since I'm a big fan of the whole genre. In theory. I haven't actually played in any games where it came up, I don't think. XD
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A reason I dislike playing casters is option paralysis. If I am a caster, it is always a spontaneous one.
Like, if you present 6ish options to me, I can pick the best one relatively quickly, but casters with like wild arcana have infinity options and I find that daunting.
I don't know if this is helpful or not, but I've definitely felt the same way. Casters have long been a favorite, but sometimes if I don't have enough free time I won't choose one for just that reason.
What I've done to get past that feeling is two things:
1) Accept that I don't need to pick the best option and trust that what I do pick will be fine. For example, if I need to pick a 3rd level spell, and I don't have a good damage spell yet, I'll go with a tried-and-true option like lightning bolt or fireball and be okay with it. It's fine that I haven't trawled through the entire 3rd level spell list for my class to see if there's some hidden gem, because at the end of the day, this is not the only spell I have, and the resolution of any specific encounter or problem doesn't rest solely on my shoulders.
2) Once I accept that I don't have to evaluate every single option, I exploit people who have. There are numerous optimization guides out there written by people who enjoy the multiple decisions available to a class, and they've written guides where they make very clear what they think the best options are. 99% of the time I just skim through the top ranked and the second top ranked options, choose one that appeals, and move on.
And whatever I've selected is fine.
(Zenith Games' comprehensive list of guides and the guides found on RPGbot.net are where I usually go for 1E guides, and both sites have 2E counterpart lists.)
The funny thing is, if healing worked more like fighting, and was more feasible during combat (I've only played 1E, just as a disclaimer), it might be pretty fun to play more healers. Diving through the fray to heal a comrade is just about as exciting and expressive as doing so to attack someone, since it has the added "directly saving colleagues' lives" angle that always makes for juicy RP.
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I really like roleplaying romance, since I'm a big fan of the whole genre. In theory. I haven't actually played in any games where it came up, I don't think. XD
I've got a couple going atm. One with an NPC from the character's background (her best friend growing up that she could never admit she had feelings for) and the other with another PC that just started. It's quite fun! I hope you get more of that yourself <3
The funny thing is, if healing worked more like fighting, and was more feasible during combat (I've only played 1E, just as a disclaimer), it might be pretty fun to play more healers. Diving through the fray to heal a comrade is just about as exciting and expressive as doing so to attack someone, since it has the added "directly saving colleagues' lives" angle that always makes for juicy RP.
I never agreed with the common wisdom that 1e healing is bad or suboptimal. I did all of Mummy's Mask with a 4 person party that included a completely dedicated healer (spirit guide life/life oracle) and he made it so much easier. I'm playing a healer in Tyrant's Grasp and I also have zero complaints. I think the issue is more that most people just really do not feel the way you (and I) do that healing someone in the fray is as exciting for them.
Dedicated healing can be very effective, especially with the life oracle, as I understand it, but it's often pretty subpar in the thick of combat because healing just can't usually keep up with damage.
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The point isn't to keep everyone at full. It's to keep everyone alive and active enough that they can keep doing their own damage. Smoothing the curve out, so to speak. Part of being a dedicated healer is also maintaining the ability to clear conditions, which can make a huge difference in action economy for your party as a whole.
If you are playing enemies as making choices primarily based motivations and self-preservation instincts, then it's even less necessary, as no one in-universe is going to be thinking in terms of "aha, they are healing 15 DPR but I can do 25 DPR so it's only a matter of time before I win!" With realistic motivations, it can take a lot out of an enemy to see that their powerful, tide-swinging blow was minimized or completely erased, even if the GM knows that they can probably keep swinging that sword longer than their enemy can keep up that kind of healing.
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I have a dedicated healer that was such a thorn in the side during one epic battle that the (intelligent but very, very frustrated) enemy shifted gears and attacked her exclusively for a couple of rounds. Which had the effect of allowing me to focus my healing on the most easily-reached victim - myself - while my allies crushed him. My healing didn’t keep up with his damage output, but my friends all survived. And revived me with a potion.
It was very gratifying, actually.
Totally in the same place as KC and Liliya. My comfort zone for characters is strong, charismatic, heavily-armored lady with a romantic streak and a little bit of magic. Works super well for PbP. And I took just enough fencing and longsword that I can write the martial aspect half-proficiently.
I served in the German army, have about a decade of martial arts experience and can fairly comfortably lift my own weight over my head.
Should mean a real life STR score of 14-16 or so, I can write about fighting reasonably well I think.Hilariously enough, I actually suck at shooting (my selected character is a Soviet Succubus Sniper lady), impaired 3D vision and distance perception.
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Occasionally someone specializes at in-combat healing. Usually with a life oracle. Many/most players don’t enjoy playing a dedicated healer. Again, I will emphasize, this isn’t necessary in PF. (It was pretty much mandatory in the first versions of D&D. Some of us old curmudgeons have difficulty realizing this has changed and will try to insist someone play a healer.)
Oddly, it can sometimes actually be a hindrance. A few years ago I played a life oracle healer. By the end of the campaign, I could pretty easily provide thousands of hit points of healing each game day, plus massive condition recovery potential. The problem was that a few of the players (and one in particular) actually lost all tactical sense. The general attitude became “Meh, Jimmy-Joe-John can keep us up no matter happens.” So absolutely every fight became charge straight at the biggest concentration of targets. Right through traps, walls of spikes, river of lava, attacks of opportunity, and everything else. It became really weirdly frustrating, watching the other players become progressively dumber and more inept, because the crutch of my healing capability kept getting stronger.
I fully get what you mean, to me, this frequently implies that you are not only very good at being a healer, but that your character or your tactics may also be considerably more optimized then the rest of the party.
There is a place for "charge in immidiatly" tactics in real life (particularly during meeting engagements), as taking the initiative and making the enemy react to you is pretty important (it can frequently also go horribly wrong, see early Polish and during operation Soviet counterattacks on the Wehrmacht in WW2, did you know that the Poles actually pulled off a succesfull cavalry charge in WW2?), but this type is simply not strong in an RPG game.
RPGs generally reward tactics that enable the party to focus, and thus defeat an adversary in detail, and charging straight in typically does the opposite.