So the girlfriend wants to play pathfinder and has a concept to play a mounted flying archer who rains down pain. Ive been working on the build but trying to fit all the feats in is just very difficult.
i realize the best way to get a flying mount will be to dip into druid for a level and then boon companion it up.
i was given two rules: no bards (she played one before) and no dumping charisma.
Any suggestions on how to build this character? It would be for PFS.
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My best idea would be to play a human (Precise Shot at level 1) and be a ranger with a 1-level druid dip. I was actually thinking of this recently myself. Stats could be:
STR 14
DEX 18 (16+2)
CON 13
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 10
Of course, this means you need a large AniComp before you can ride it, which means 7th level before this works. If she wants to do it right away, she'll need to be small. For a halfling, I suggest these stats:
STR 14 (16-2)
DEX 18 (16+2)
CON 12
INT 08
WIS 12
CHA 10 (08+2)
Of course, this means no human bonus feat, which means Precise Shot no earlier than 2nd level (unless you start with a level of fighter, which you could do, as Boon Companion covers one level more than what a ranger actually needs to catch up).
So to get to "mounted flying archer" the fastest, you'd probably go like this:
Halfling
01:Fighter1:Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot
02:Ranger1
03:Druid1:Boon Companion
04:Ranger2:Rapid Shot
And continue with ranger from there on out.
The human build is probably a tad sleeker, but does require waiting until 7th before you're mounted (unless you carry potions of reduce person, I suppose).
Hope that helps!
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A full druid archer could work pretty well (and also have full druid casting!); however, weight is an issue, because a flying mount cannot fly with medium encumbrance.
To pull this off, I think you need a combination of things:
- female halfling (+2 Dexterity, less worry about dumping Charisma, and the lightest of the core races)
- Andoran faction (campaign trait to gain Longbow Proficiency)
- Roc companion
Calculate the encumbrance plus the halfling's weight, because a low level roc is quite strength-poor. A medium bird with 12 strength has a light load of 43 lbs., and the lightest female halfling is 27 lbs. without equipment. You might need to either wait until you can bump up the bird's strength, go very light on equipment, or invest in a wand of ant haul.
If/when you get to level 7, I would recommend keeping the birdy medium for +2 Dex/Con rather than letting it get big. The reason for this is because it's your mount, and a large-sized mount just causes issues. Deal with the lower damage by giving it an agile amulet of mighty fists. :)
Is the Hippogriff Rider Ranger archetype usable in PFS?
Normally I'd just suggest a Ranger w/ a Roc companion since the Roc's entry specifically says rangers can have them, but I do know that PFS has shut that option down.
I'd go for hippogrif rider as well, seems like the best option. There's also the beastmaster ranger archetype that allows you to take the Roc. Halfling might work well too because of the lightness issue. Never forget boon companion, it will be worth improving your mount.
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Is the Hippogriff Rider Ranger archetype usable in PFS?
Normally I'd just suggest a Ranger w/ a Roc companion since the Roc's entry specifically says rangers can have them, but I do know that PFS has shut that option down.
No. The Sable Company Marine archetype (which is the one that grants a Hippogriff as an animal companion) is not PFS legal.
Hippogriff rider is not approved for PFS. The problem with beastmaster ranger is you lose your 6th level combat style.
Eh, at this point, i'd say take what you can get. Ranger and druid levels dont stack (as far as I can tell (since I dont think rangers can get rocs in PFS)) so the multiclass will be fairly limited . You'd still be able to do a lot, but the animal companion would be more limited (boon companion would help a bit).
There is another option (also dont know if pfs legal) which would be to be a half-orc with th "beast rider" feat (min level 7) which would allow her to ride a pteranodon, either as a cavalier or a ranger. It's from the advanced race guide, so I have NO idea if it's ok for PFS.
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There is another option (also dont know if pfs legal) which would be to be a half-orc with th(e) "beast rider" feat (min level 7) which would allow her to ride a pteranodon, either as a cavalier or a ranger. It's from the advanced race guide, so I have NO idea if it's ok for PFS.
It is PFS legal but of course - level 7 minimum.
Also when considering PFS, there are plenty of scenarios that take place in underground dungeons or inside buildings. This causes a problem not only for large mounts but also for flying ones. Honestly, the lack of flying mount availability in PFS is deliberate. Since GMs cannot add enemies or change anything about the scenario, a flying archer is almost an "I win" situation a lot of times. That's not too much fun for others.
Keep in mind longbows cannot be utilized while mounted. She should use the shortbow instead.
Ranger Falconer and feed it potions of enlarge person or get a wand of enlarge person.
Bard with nature soul and animal ally. I think that list is not so limited actually. You still need boon companion then. Bard because of CHA and buffs, but it´s feat starved.
Other than that go fighter or zen archer for one level.
Dire Bats, rocs, quetzcalcoatlus, giant wasp, pteranodon and giant mantis should be available as medium mounts. And it also should be PFS legal.
Halfling Fighter (Archer) 4
Small Humanoid (halfling)
Init +4; Senses Perception +3
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Defense
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AC 15, touch 15, flat-footed 11 (+4 Dex, +1 size)
hp 32 (4d10+4)
Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +3; +2 vs. fear
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
Ranged Longbow, Comp. (Str +1) +8/+8 (1d6+2/x3)
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Statistics
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Str 12, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16
Base Atk +4; CMB +4; CMD 18
Feats Animal Ally, Nature Soul, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot
Traits Dangerously Curious, Indomitable Faith
Skills Acrobatics +4 (+0 jump), Climb +5, Fly +6, Handle Animal +11, Intimidate +7, Perception +3, Ride +12, Stealth +8, Survival +2, Use Magic Device +11; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, Halfling
SQ animal companion link, fearless, share spells with companion, trick shots (trick shot: sunder)
Other Gear Longbow, Comp. (Str +1), 50 GP
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Special Abilities
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Animal Companion Link (Ex) You have a link with your Animal Companion.
Fearless +2 racial bonus vs Fear saves.
Point Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Rapid Shot You get an extra attack with ranged weapons. Each attack is at -2.
Share Spells with Companion (Ex) Can cast spells with a target of "you" on animal companion, as touch spells.
Trick Shot: Sunder Sunder with a bow at 30' and -4 CMB.
Hero Lab® and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license..
In my build i took UMD, i think a wand of enlarge person should work.
Are there rules for riding animals that are too small?
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Buy a giant vulture.
Go Sohei.
Mediocre archery before level 6.
Destroy encounters at level 6.
Upgrade to wondrous figurines once you have cash.
Note: this requires owning Animal Archives.
Second Note: Be courteous to your fellow players and don't overwhelm the table with a CR 4 creature at level 2. Start with a horse.
Beast Master Ranger with boon companion is a good bet. Sure you lose the 6th level combat style, but that isn't that big of a deal.
Alternatively, you can be a cavalier with the Beast Rider archtype and the Luring Cavalier archtype (which makes all the cavalier abilities ranged)
You still couldn't fly until level 7, but it all still works
as a human cavalier, you would have six feats by level 7, so that is enough for Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot and Deadly Aim.
Eh, at this point, i'd say take what you can get. Ranger and druid levels dont stack (as far as I can tell (since I dont think rangers can get rocs in PFS)) so the multiclass will be fairly limited .
Just for everybody's edification, druid and ranger levels DO stack for purposes of animal companions.
See page 50 of Core.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.
See my post here for possible feats for your flying mount. Of special note is Stable Gallop, which makes it easier to fire from a mount.
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Honestly, the lack of flying mount availability in PFS is deliberate. Since GMs cannot add enemies or change anything about the scenario, a flying archer is almost an "I win" situation a lot of times. That's not too much fun for others.
*This*.
IMO the most fun PFS builds are those which are highly flexible, as being able to do something is always better than being endlessly frustrated at being unable to deploy a capstone ability.
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Ranger Falconer and feed it potions of enlarge person or get a wand of enlarge person.
Bard with nature soul and animal ally. I think that list is not so limited actually. You still need boon companion then. Bard because of CHA and buffs, but it´s feat starved.
Other than that go fighter or zen archer for one level.Dire Bats, rocs, quetzcalcoatlus, giant wasp, pteranodon and giant mantis should be available as medium mounts. And it also should be PFS legal.
Not only is Animal Ally quite limited (small cat, venomous snake, dog, horse, pony, bird, dire rat IIRC), but it's still a bit ambiguous whether it satisfies Boon Companion's prerequisite of having an animal companion class feature.
Not only is Animal Ally quite limited (small cat, venomous snake, dog, horse, pony, bird, dire rat IIRC), but it's still a bit ambiguous whether it satisfies Boon Companion's prerequisite of having an animal companion class feature.Ranger Falconer and feed it potions of enlarge person or get a wand of enlarge person.
Bard with nature soul and animal ally. I think that list is not so limited actually. You still need boon companion then. Bard because of CHA and buffs, but it´s feat starved.
Other than that go fighter or zen archer for one level.Dire Bats, rocs, quetzcalcoatlus, giant wasp, pteranodon and giant mantis should be available as medium mounts. And it also should be PFS legal.
Are you refering to that PFS forum thread?
I sincerely hope that boon companion does apply, as the language there actually allows it.Should something else be ruled, it is really bad, because a certain faction of people would "win" again on these boards.
Your respect for nature is so great that you can form a deep and lasting friendship with an animal.
Prerequisites: Nature Soul, character level 4th, must not have an animal companion or mount that advances as an animal companion.
Benefit: You gain an animal companion as if you were a druid of your character level –3 from the following list: badger, bird, camel, cat (small), dire rat, dog, horse, pony, snake (viper), or wolf. If you later gain an animal companion through another source (such as the Animal domain, divine bond, hunter’s bond, mount, or nature bond class features), the effective druid level granted by this feat stacks with that granted by other sources.
Bolded by me. "as if you were a druid"....druids do have that class feature, don´t they? I think the language there is pretty clear.
Since it says druid list, all the animals from there should be eligible in PFS play. What is the full list or not? There i´m not sure since i never played a druid so far.
Benefit: You gain an animal companion as if you were a druid of your character level –3 from the following list: badger, bird, camel, cat (small), dire rat, dog, horse, pony, snake (viper), or wolf.Hayako,
The bit you quoted lists bird only, not rocs or anything else on the druid list. A hawk (going for the best bird option) has a str of 6, with enlarge 8. I seriously can't imagine it being a mount for a halfing unless the halfling was emaciated and had very little gear.
Yeah right, plainly oversaw that bit. The beastiary entry for the rock says it is a "legendary bird[s]" though. That would probably be the only option then. Still don´t know if there is a specific PFS ruling about it.
The solution could also be potions of reduce person making you tiny. You certainly loose some damage that way, but i still find it awesome somehow and it´s 100% legal for sure. Just get an tiny exotic saddle and stuff on your eagle.
-You know, the wildshaping into her mount idea has merits. I will definitely discuss that with her!
-The reduce person idea has one fundamental flaw. Reduce person is minutes per level. Reduce animal is hour per level.
-Shadowdax- Thank you for the link! It is very helpful
I am still unsure how to build this so she has the needed feats so she isnt handicapped.
Talked to girlfriend: Core of the build is to be Ranger. Race is to be Halfling.
So after a lot of research I have learned to get a flying mount:
At Level 1:
Mad Dog Barbarian 1
Druid 1
At level 4:
animal domain
Ranger (beastrider)
At level 7:
Beastrider feat
As for feats I really didnt see many mount related feats that were needed other then Mounted Combat.
For archery: I need to have a lot of feats early. Best for this was Fighter, Zen Archer, and Ranger.
Animal Companion: at low levels weight is definitely a concern. The strongest animal companion that flys at lvl 1 is the Roc. Carrying a female halfling they would only be able to carry 13lbs of extra gear. Efficient Quiver and Pathfinder pouch are definite musts till the strength is much greater.
Other concern is most of the companions will have low fly skills and high penalties due to their poor fly ratings. Still looking for alternative ways to overcome this.
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Remember that Fly checks are only necessary for tricks like sharp turns and hovering. Investing both skill points into a roc's fly skill at first level would give it a check of +9, which means it can move less than half its fly speed on a 1, and hover on a 6. No real need to hover, however, when the thing can 5-foot fly.
Darkwood small sized longbow is .75 lbs, and arrows are 1.5 lbs. for 20. You should be okay if you're very frugal weight-wise. Actually, you might want to go saddle-less at first, especially since you likely don't have Mounted Combat yet.
Guiding your mount with your knees is DC 5.
A halfling can take the Outrider alternate race trait for +2 to Ride checks. You'll be an archer, so probably starting with 18 Dexterity for +4. A skill point in Ride plus the class skill bonus gives you a +10 right there, without traits or feats, meaning you can ride a bird bareback and guide it with your knees; no need for the heavy saddle!
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Note that riding bareback gives you a -5 to your ride checks.
Strictly RAW, all saddles weigh the same. Saddles for medium creatures SHOULD be 1/2 weight but they're not.
There is also the pesky -5 for riding an ill suited mount. Personally, I interpret that pretty much as "animals that come trained as mounts in UE or Animal Archive are suited as mounts, almost all others are not"
These combine to making Ant Haul or muleback cords very, very very useful
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I was taking that into account Paul. If a halfling druid (Andoran for longbow proficiency) follows this progression:
1 Point Blank Shot
2
3 Precise Shot
4
5 Rapid Shot
6
7 Mounted Combat
Then the first time a high ride check is really necessary is also, coincidentally, when the roc would grow to large size. However, even if you elect to keep it small, it should still have a much higher strength by that point based entirely on the incidental bumps it gets. Ant haul added onto that means even the heaviest saddle shouldn't be an issue.
I dont see the point of keeping it small. Reduce animal is an hour long spell and easy to get on a wand.
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One aspect for playing a flying character is the need to be aware of the rest of the party's capabilities, articulately with small parties. In particular, a flying character who relies on flight for defense is rarely going to be attacked cthis means that other characters will be attacked more often cthis boncentrayes hots on other PCs. When there are only 3 other PCs, and depending on the mix, this can put a lot of stress on other characters. Occasional dismounting or summoning may be needed to get some HP to the table.