Divine Plea
School abjuration:
Level cleric 1
Casting Time 1 swift action
Components S
Range personal
Target you
Duration: 1 round
Calling upon the divine power of your deity, you imbue yourself with divine protection versus your adversaries. You gain a +1 divine bonus on savings throws for one round. This bonus increases by +1 for every 3 levels up to a maximim of +4.
Please critique. Fair spell level? Protection from evil, another level 1 spell, lasts 1 min/level and gives +2 to ac/saves and other protection.
Protection from Xxx give situational bonus. In addition, the divine bonus is fairly rare, I can't even remember something that give it on the fly. Seems pretty powerful. On the other side, pretty awful: 1 round is really a pain as duration. Even if the DM don't cheat, you can waste your one shot super duper saves enanchment, I would change to immediate, valid for one single save roll, limit +3, sacred bonus. Seems more useful and I tried to remain in theme with what you seem to develop.
You are correct. It was meant to be immediate action...my mistake there.
You are basically burning your slot for help with one save.
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One way to envision whether a spell is too good is to imagine the worst enemy use of it, and think about fighting that.
Would your cleric be okay with an enemy oracle who could cast this spell like 8 times in a row? Basically using it on every saving throw for the entire fight?
The divine bonus pings my GM warning sensors. Sacred or resistance would be better.
No worries! Sacred it is!
And while it would help the clerics saves by +3, it doesnt actually give him immunity, just help. And it would burn a spell slot.
Seems too powerful. Imagine a character with a cloak of resistance and this spell. Once he gets to higher levels he doesn't really have too much use for 1st level spells, so he can prepare this several times a day and as he levels the bonus will just keep getting bigger and bigger. And since it's a sacred bonus he will get to stack it with all his equipment bonuses since there isn't much out there that gives a sacred bonus.
Edit: I'm not sure if he really means divine or sacred. I assumed he meant sacred, as Divine isn't really a type as normally expressed its usually either Sacred or Profane. And even as a sacred bonus it will still stack with most everything else, and he gets to cast it as an immeadiate action? For a first level spell?
No way Jose
Well consider this...
For the cost of a 1st level spell: Protect from evil you get +2 deflection to ac, +2 to all saves, immunity to mind control, protection from summoned creatures and a one minute duration.
So for an immediate action, this spell gives one more + to a single save from a single source.
Obviously, Will saves are not a concern for a caster at high levels so you are talking about buffing two low save throws. Do you really think a +1 makes that much difference at high level?
Agree.
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to good and to boring.
a quickened resistance spell is much higher level and is less effective. so it needs to be higher level and have limitations.
example:
make it only apply to others and have the bonus scale on how close to your deity they are (same+3, similar +2, other +1) and it could be a level 3 spell.
It looks like a less powerful version of the bard's 1st level spell Saving Finale. That spell wrecks my game considering the group's bard can use it on anyone in the group, not just himself, for any saving throw AFTER they fail it (the range of close hasn't proven to be a problem most of the time). Keep in mind it's a bard only spell and that he has to stop his performance to cast it. But at high levels the bard ends up using Saving Finale for 90% of his first level spell slots and often burns 2nd levels for it in dire situations.
Well consider this...
For the cost of a 1st level spell: Protect from evil you get +2 deflection to ac, +2 to all saves, immunity to mind control, protection from summoned creatures and a one minute duration.
So for an immediate action, this spell gives one more + to a single save from a single source.
Obviously, Will saves are not a concern for a caster at high levels so you are talking about buffing two low save throws. Do you really think a +1 makes that much difference at high level?
The bonuses only work against evil creatures. And while you can know in advance that you're likely righting evil creatures, there is always potential to be surprised by some NN big hungry animals. It's also not immunity to mind-affecting. There was a debate about this on the forum wherein it was concluded that the spell only prevents hostile control over a creatures actions, like the mentioned charm person or dominate person but not things like sleep or deep slumber.
And protection from blank is also probably one of the best 1st levels spells available. You shouldn't make new spells that are better than all the currently existing ones, if anything it should inferior to other spells of that level to make it balanced.
If you made it at least a 2nd level spell slot, that might be balanced.
At least compared to
School evocation [force, light]; Level cleric 3, paladin 3Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, DF
Range touch or 5 ft.; see text
Target creature touched or all creatures within 5 ft.; see text
Duration 1 minute/level
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
A shimmering mantle of light shrouds the subject, casting light like a torch. The subject of the spell gains a +1 resistance bonus on all saving throws per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level). The subject can end the wrathful mantle at any time as a swift action to deal 2d8 points of force damage to all creatures within 5 feet.
The immeadiate cast time, scaling bonus, and stacking with most other spells due to bonus type I think tips this spell into the 2nd level category.
I say make it a level 2 spell, and limit it to +3 and I'd be ok with it. There should be a profane version however.
I agree (especially since the cleric I am making it for is LE).
I can see it a 2nd level spell although if so, I would feel that it should have something else to it if so.
Resistance bonus is out of discussion. Anyone with 1/4 a brain should have some kind of resistance gear especially by level 10. Therefore this spell would be wasted.
It's a swift action... that makes it too powerful.
That's an almost impossile balance mechanic to get around. The Quicken feat exists for a reason.
Yet there are many immediate action spells...
It's a swift action... that makes it too powerful.
That's an almost impossile balance mechanic to get around. The Quicken feat exists for a reason.
Grace and Litany of Sloth are two extremely powerful swift action spells.
Guys,
+3 to a fort or a reflex save for a cleric is not groundbreaking. It is against one single save throw against saves the class is bad against saving against to begin with. You do realize that at lv 14, a cleric has a +4 base save vs reflex right? You are thinking against Will saves and yes it would make it very hard to land for a will save. And it has to be cast before you roll your save so it could be completely wasted if you roll well.
Would it appease if it was made Fort or Reflex save only?
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Grace and Litany of Sloth are two extremely powerful swift action spells.It's a swift action... that makes it too powerful.
That's an almost impossile balance mechanic to get around. The Quicken feat exists for a reason.
that is a good example why it should be a higher spell level
Edit:
The spell is never wasted because you always use it in response, you could still fail your save - but it was used effectively.
your suggestion of one type of save, that could work. especially if it was hard set into the spell as one of the types. its still great, but you would need to ID the spell or have a good guess on the effect to make it work.
That would completely defeat the nature of the spell.
Anyway, thank you all for your time. It is now in the hands of my GM. Thank you for the changes you have suggested as they have been put to good use in modifying the spell.
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The spell looks strong to me. Immediate casting time, or even swift, is basically a free action for many clerics. The bonus type other than resistance pretty much guarantees stacking. The two together makes it pretty much a guaranteed bump that scales.
If you're stuck on the mechanics, the alternative is to bump the level. I think the spell is a must take at 1st level, and would still be attractive at 2nd.
If you're stuck on the mechanics, the alternative is to bump the level. I think the spell is a must take at 1st level, and would still be attractive at 2nd.
Which is exaclty the argument that it should be at least second level. A brand new spell created by a player shouldn't be obviously better than than already existing spells.
If you're stuck on the mechanics, the alternative is to bump the level. I think the spell is a must take at 1st level, and would still be attractive at 2nd.Which is exaclty the argument that it should be at least second level. A brand new spell created by a player shouldn't be obviously better than than already existing spells.
Here I respectfully disagree. I think it would be a cool reward for a spellcaster who studies, searches for magical theories, or finds incredible inspiration in the heat of battle. What he learns essentially revolutionizes magic and he can push the limits a bit further than others. Obviously with this system you wouldn't be able to create magic spells willy nilly. But I could definitely see creating a new spell perhaps every 4 levels. Provided you've been thinking of it. And of course it wouldn't be obviously better, but subtly better.
Alas in this case I agree with the others however. 1st Level immediate is a bit much, I would bump it up to second because it would be on par with the other good options for Swift Spells.
I don't feel the action itself should play into this. All classes should have a means to use Immediate, Swift, and etc, effectively. The fact that it currently doesn't disrupts the balance of action economy. I dont like the idea of players doing more than others in a turn.
Allow spellcasters to create better spells (compared within spell level) means you rewards spellcasters (who are already more powerful than everybodyelse) by making them more powerful. Wizards and sorcerers are really defined by the spells they can cast more than anything else. Giving them a new spell should really be very carefully considered because otherwise you end up with things like 1001 Spells. Which I can tell you ruined the current campaign I'm playing in.
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Make it a personal level 2 inquisitor spell IMO. Same text as OP and everything. Automatically more balanced.
That may be a bit of a joke but I really do think this works better as an Inquisitor spell. Full casters don't need or necessarily want this kind of spell. It's just not exciting for them. But for the Inquisitor this is definitely something I could get behind. Maybe a little bit of reflavoring, Inquisitor only spell as a plea seems a little meek to me. Their spell list is kind of weird in the first place, this might even be okay as a level 1 for them. Being more resilient for a brief amount of time screams Paladin to me more than Cleric anyway. Either way, this being a full caster's spell is probably off.
Allow spellcasters to create better spells (compared within spell level) means you rewards spellcasters (who are already more powerful than everybodyelse) by making them more powerful. Wizards and sorcerers are really defined by the spells they can cast more than anything else. Giving them a new spell should really be very carefully considered because otherwise you end up with things like 1001 Spells. Which I can tell you ruined the current campaign I'm playing in.
Im experimenting with the idea. At most, players would only get to make 4 or 5 spells total.
I'm also going to be running a Kirthfinder game so spellcasters have already been toned down in general with martials also getting amped up.
If it becomes swift, it is useless. Its a plea for help from your deity. As in, "Oh Crap, save me!". Once cannot know a red dragon is about to breath on you on your turn before the dragon goes. Therefore swift is useless being a 1 round/1 save spell.